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24677RE: [Yuricon] Not quite on topic, but I need an answer. How do you deal with fanboys?

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  • Erica Friedman
    Mar 5, 2008
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      > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      > From: ximatl@...
      > Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:00:56 -0500
      > Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Not quite on topic, but I need an answer. How do you deal with fanboys?

      > Well, if we're talking about LFBs, there are two options for you.
      > Ignore and ignore. ;)

      Serge beat me to it.

      Don't feed a troll. Any attention, positive or negative is attention. The only way to get it to stop eating the goats is make them walk another path and cross a different bridge. (Was that metaphor too silly? Sorry if it was.)

      You could have every scholar and several anime
      > directors/producers, and mangaka talk themselves blue in the face
      > about the differences between Yuri and Futanari and you still
      > wouldn't be able to convince him otherwise or just as likely he's
      > continuing to insist there's no difference because you're reacting to
      > it, and he enjoys goading you. (Trolling, in other words.) A third
      > option that just came to me would be to start your own thread, and if
      > you wanted have your admins merge them.

      Ayup. It puts me in mind of two situations I know of in which the artist/author her/himself *specifically* answered a question and the fans still didn't believe it.

      > As for personally, I'm not sure how or if futanari equates to real
      > transgenderism at all, (my gut says probably just as much as BL/yaoi
      > equates to gay), but I think Erica posited a while back that there
      > were essentially two types of futanari characters: men with breasts
      > and women with dicks.

      Beat me again. You're hired as my recycled conversation go-to person.

      And I agree - futanari and "transgenderism" are not terribly closely related. It's far closer to that brand of straight, married, guy who wears his wife's dresses and underwear and thinks he looks like a woman. It's very common, I'm told, and I've certainly met several folks who do it.

      The former being much more common than the
      > latter probably for the reasons MdG alluded to earlier, or it may
      > simply be a case of mangaka and doujinka falling back on standard
      > male behavior, because they won't or can't conceive otherwise.
      > Futanari is a pretty standard fetish in my experience [I'm not an
      > expert, just a pervert. ;)], so it wouldn't surprise me at all to
      > discover that it's appeal for many is that it's not gay, meaning it's
      > an outlet for straight men, or some lesbians now that I think about
      > it, to fantasize about dicks without questioning their sexual
      > identity.

      I like this, saying "yes, I agree" and adding nothing to the conversation.

      > (I should note that I'm generally presuming hentai here, since I
      > don't recall any instance of futanari in any mainstream manga or
      > anime outside of Go Nagai. Oh, also, I'm sticking with hentai rather
      > than porn since futanari and yuri are more culturally specific. )

      I know of a few futanari that are adult, but not hentai. "Purple" and "Chimera" leap to mind. The former is a girl with a penis and the second is a man with breasts. In nether case is the issue of gender any more than a plot complication. (Much like Kashimashi, in which the gender change is the big handwave to set up a Yuri romance triangle.) In none of those cases is the protagonist truly transgendered, in the sense that they desire to become the other gender, or to transgress gender for their own purposes, but gender transgression does occur, for the entertainment and possibly the tittilation of the audience.

      > Anyway in the instance of the latter type of character, I could
      > probably say, because I'm an inclusive sort of person, that a woman
      > with a dick futanari character could have a yuri relationship with a
      > non-futanari woman character, because it would be two women in a
      > presumably emotional and/or physical relationship, regardless that
      > one of them has an extra appendage. A narrower definition, however,
      > would exclude our woman with dick futanari because of her dick, which
      > seems to be the prevailing opinion.

      I'm of the former opinion, but I'm always out of step with the majority. At least I'm consistent. I had a few Hot Tails comics a zillion years ago (Rica took them, now that I think about it) in which the characters were *clearly* females with penises and they had lots of fun with those things. I liked it because despite their 80's music video fashion sense they were happy hermaphrodites and enjoyed their fun uncomplicatedly. No tears, no non-consensual sex. I would not call those Yuri, by any stretch, but they were cute enough.

      > Here is where we could segue into a discussion of definitions and the
      > fluidity of language or transgenderism, but I'll let others pick
      > those up, since I've already wasted enough work time on this. ;)

      Hah, beat you to it! LOL



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