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Re: [YamahaDX] DX100 patches to FS1R?

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  • stephen
    ... http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r/ Thanks for the links! Looks like Atom Smashers page has the info I m looking for:
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 1, 2001
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      Summa wrote:
      >For more links and Tips take a look at Atoms "-UNOFFICIAL- Yamaha FS1R" Page...
      http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r/

      Thanks for the links!
      Looks like Atom Smashers page has the info I'm looking for:
      http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r/tips.html (Getting 'Harsh' Sounds Out Of The
      FS1R)
      I may not be able to load DX100 patches into the FS1R but you can emulate the 4OP
      DX sound.

      I tired doing this using the FS1R editor for the Mac but I'm a bit confused by
      what he means by 'carrier'.
      In the FS1R editor I'll open up the voice editor and go to the OSC menu which
      shows 8 OP's.
      So to recreate a 4OP DX100 patch I would only use 4 OP's with three in Key Sync,
      set on Sine, OP level at 99, and the fourth OP would be used as the carrier?
      How do you set the fourth OP to be the carrier?

      Stephen.
    • Summa
      Hi Stephen,At 02:22 01.06.01 -0500, you wrote: Summa wrote: For more links and Tips take a look at Atoms -UNOFFICIAL- Yamaha FS1R Page...
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 1, 2001
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        Hi Stephen,

        At 02:22 01.06.01 -0500, you wrote:
        >Summa wrote:
        >>For more links and Tips take a look at Atoms "-UNOFFICIAL- Yamaha FS1R"
        Page...
        >http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r/
        >
        >Thanks for the links!
        >Looks like Atom Smashers page has the info I'm looking for:
        >http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r/tips.html (Getting 'Harsh' Sounds Out Of The
        >FS1R)
        >I may not be able to load DX100 patches into the FS1R but you can emulate
        the 4OP
        >DX sound.

        The FS1R mailing List at Teklab had a lot of discussions and ideas about
        converting 4OP FM patches to the FS1R, thats why Atom included that into his
        page.

        >I tired doing this using the FS1R editor for the Mac but I'm a bit confused by
        >what he means by 'carrier'.

        A carrier is/are the operator(s) of an algorithm you can hear, all the other
        operators are modulators that you can't hear directly, you only hear the
        modulators inlfuence on the carrier ...

        So if you look at algorithm # 1 of the FS1R you have only carriers, take
        algorithm #66 the operator 8 is the carrier, the rest are modulators.
        Another example is algorithm # 72 where operator 8 and 4 are carriers and as
        always the rest are modulators...

        >So to recreate a 4OP DX100 patch I would only use 4 OP's with three in Key
        >Sync, set on Sine, OP level at 99, and the fourth OP would be used as the
        >carrier?
        >How do you set the fourth OP to be the carrier?

        By chosing the right algorithm like #77 that should be comparable with #5 of
        a 4 Op FM synth... anyway, if the maximum volume of the 4OP modulator you
        emulate isn't too high, you sometimes only need 2 or even one modulator
        instead of all three. It depends on the sound you want to convert...

        If you need more informations you'd better join the FS1R mailing list, since
        I'm not a specialist in converting 4Op -> 8Op. I'm using my TX81z when I
        want to use my 4Op sounds, use the FS1R for my new ones.

        I hope that helps a bit!

        Summa





        +
        +
        + /\ /\
        /\ + /\/ \ / \
        +++++++/++\++/++++++\++/+++ \ /\ /\ / O
        / \/ \/ \ / \/ \ | | / | /----
        /\ / + \/ \\---/ ---- | |
        / \/ + /\ / \----
        + / \ /
        + Nicknames : Summa or SumGhost
        + AIM : Flotorian
        + Born : 1967
        + Profession : Student of Computer Science
        +

        A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
        Casio CZ Synth Station : http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/

        Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!


        _________________________________________________________
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      • stephen
        ... I get no response when I send email to: fss-list-unsubscribe@teklab.com Maybe i should try sending Atom email. ... hmmm... I m still a bit confused but
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 2, 2001
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          Summa wrote:

          >
          > The FS1R mailing List at Teklab had a lot of discussions and ideas about
          > converting 4OP FM patches to the FS1R, thats why Atom included that into his
          > page.

          I get no response when I send email to: fss-list-unsubscribe@...
          Maybe i should try sending Atom email.

          >
          > A carrier is/are the operator(s) of an algorithm you can hear, all the other
          > operators are modulators that you can't hear directly, you only hear the
          > modulators inlfuence on the carrier ...
          >
          > So if you look at algorithm # 1 of the FS1R you have only carriers, take
          > algorithm #66 the operator 8 is the carrier, the rest are modulators.
          > Another example is algorithm # 72 where operator 8 and 4 are carriers and as
          > always the rest are modulators...
          >
          > >So to recreate a 4OP DX100 patch I would only use 4 OP's with three in Key
          > >Sync, set on Sine, OP level at 99, and the fourth OP would be used as the
          > >carrier?
          > >How do you set the fourth OP to be the carrier?
          >
          > By chosing the right algorithm like #77 that should be comparable with #5 of
          > a 4 Op FM synth... anyway, if the maximum volume of the 4OP modulator you
          > emulate isn't too high, you sometimes only need 2 or even one modulator
          > instead of all three. It depends on the sound you want to convert...
          >
          > If you need more informations you'd better join the FS1R mailing list, since
          > I'm not a specialist in converting 4Op -> 8Op. I'm using my TX81z when I
          > want to use my 4Op sounds, use the FS1R for my new ones.
          >
          > I hope that helps a bit!

          hmmm... I'm still a bit confused but I'll try looking over the various algorithms,
          #77 sounds like a good place to start.
          I was kinda hoping someone familiar with the FS1R editor knew of an easy way to set
          up DX100 patches but I guess this is a little more complicated then I thought.

          thanks,
          Stephen.
        • stephen
          make that I get no response when I send email to: fss-list-subscribe@teklab.com
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 2, 2001
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            make that I get no response when I send email to: fss-list-subscribe@...

            stephen wrote:

            >
            > I get no response when I send email to: fss-list-unsubscribe@...
          • Summa
            Hi,At 03:45 02.06.01 -0500, you wrote: Summa wrote: The FS1R mailing List at Teklab had a lot of discussions and ideas about converting 4OP FM
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 2, 2001
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              Hi,

              At 03:45 02.06.01 -0500, you wrote:
              >Summa wrote:
              >
              >>
              >> The FS1R mailing List at Teklab had a lot of discussions and ideas about
              >> converting 4OP FM patches to the FS1R, thats why Atom included that into his
              >> page.
              >
              >I get no response when I send email to: fss-list-unsubscribe@...
              >Maybe i should try sending Atom email.
              >

              Teklab had some problems lately you may should try it again know, since it
              seems they have reinitialised the mailing list... almost all list memeber
              got an unsubscription message even so they're still subscribed...


              >> A carrier is/are the operator(s) of an algorithm you can hear, all the other
              >> operators are modulators that you can't hear directly, you only hear the
              >> modulators inlfuence on the carrier ...
              >>
              >> So if you look at algorithm # 1 of the FS1R you have only carriers, take
              >> algorithm #66 the operator 8 is the carrier, the rest are modulators.
              >> Another example is algorithm # 72 where operator 8 and 4 are carriers and as
              >> always the rest are modulators...
              >>
              >> >So to recreate a 4OP DX100 patch I would only use 4 OP's with three in Key
              >> >Sync, set on Sine, OP level at 99, and the fourth OP would be used as the
              >> >carrier?
              >> >How do you set the fourth OP to be the carrier?
              >>
              >> By chosing the right algorithm like #77 that should be comparable with #5 of
              >> a 4 Op FM synth... anyway, if the maximum volume of the 4OP modulator you
              >> emulate isn't too high, you sometimes only need 2 or even one modulator
              >> instead of all three. It depends on the sound you want to convert...
              >>
              >> If you need more informations you'd better join the FS1R mailing list, since
              >> I'm not a specialist in converting 4Op -> 8Op. I'm using my TX81z when I
              >> want to use my 4Op sounds, use the FS1R for my new ones.
              >>
              >> I hope that helps a bit!
              >
              >hmmm... I'm still a bit confused but I'll try looking over the various
              >algorithms, #77 sounds like a good place to start.
              >I was kinda hoping someone familiar with the FS1R editor knew of an easy
              way to >

              When you don't want to convert 4OP sounds, you mostly don't need very
              complex algorithms with the FS1R, because of the overtone rich operator
              waveforms you hardly need more then 2 or 3 operators in a row, to create
              interesting sounds...

              > set up DX100 patches but I guess this is a little more complicated then I
              >thought.

              I don't know an easy way ... have you programmed those DX100 patches
              yourself or do you need those sounds for older tracks... Maybe someone knows
              a way to convert 4Op sounds into DX7 patches that can be loaded diretly into
              the FS1R...


              Summa



              +
              +
              + /\ /\
              /\ + /\/ \ / \
              +++++++/++\++/++++++\++/+++ \ /\ /\ / O
              / \/ \/ \ / \/ \ | | / | /----
              /\ / + \/ \\---/ ---- | |
              / \/ + /\ / \----
              + / \ /
              + Nicknames : Summa or SumGhost
              + AIM : Flotorian
              + Born : 1967
              + Profession : Student of Computer Science
              +

              A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
              Casio CZ Synth Station : http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/

              Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!


              _________________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
            • stephen
              ... howdy ... I still get a failure notice: from MAILER-DAEMON@teklab.com ... Yeah, it seems like there is endless possibilities coming up with new and
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 3, 2001
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                Summa wrote:

                > Hi,

                howdy

                >
                > Teklab had some problems lately you may should try it again know, since it
                > seems they have reinitialised the mailing list... almost all list memeber
                > got an unsubscription message even so they're still subscribed...

                I still get a failure notice:

                from MAILER-DAEMON@...

                >
                > <fss-list-subscribe@...>:
                > Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)

                Summa wrote:

                >
                > When you don't want to convert 4OP sounds, you mostly don't need very
                > complex algorithms with the FS1R, because of the overtone rich operator
                > waveforms you hardly need more then 2 or 3 operators in a row, to create
                > interesting sounds...

                Yeah, it seems like there is endless possibilities coming up with new and
                interesting sounds on the FS1R.
                My problem is I'm not very knowledgeable about FM synthesis, I usually find a
                voice I like and use the editor going through different algorithms, change the
                operator waveforms, mess around with the filter ect...
                I find that most of the time it sounds great the way it is especially when you
                tweak the FM and Format knobs.

                > > set up DX100 patches but I guess this is a little more complicated then I
                > >thought.
                >
                > I don't know an easy way ... have you programmed those DX100 patches
                > yourself or do you need those sounds for older tracks... Maybe someone knows
                > a way to convert 4Op sounds into DX7 patches that can be loaded diretly into
                > the FS1R...

                I want that DX100 bass sound, like you hear in older Detroit techno.
                A simple 4OP simulation would be satisfactory, I really dont want to go out and
                buy a DX100.

                Stephen
              • Summa
                Hi,At 22:46 03.06.01 -0500, you wrote: Summa wrote: Hi, howdy Teklab had some problems lately you may should try it again know, since it
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 4, 2001
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                  Hi,

                  At 22:46 03.06.01 -0500, you wrote:
                  >Summa wrote:
                  >
                  >> Hi,
                  >
                  >howdy
                  >
                  >>
                  >> Teklab had some problems lately you may should try it again know, since it
                  >> seems they have reinitialised the mailing list... almost all list memeber
                  >> got an unsubscription message even so they're still subscribed...
                  >
                  >I still get a failure notice:
                  >
                  >from MAILER-DAEMON@...
                  >
                  They may still have problems, try to mail to Jay Vaughan <jay@...>
                  hopefully he answer you mail, unless it gets lost in the phile of other
                  mails caused by the un - resubsciption of all the list users.

                  >> When you don't want to convert 4OP sounds, you mostly don't need very
                  >> complex algorithms with the FS1R, because of the overtone rich operator
                  >> waveforms you hardly need more then 2 or 3 operators in a row, to create
                  >> interesting sounds...
                  >
                  >Yeah, it seems like there is endless possibilities coming up with new and
                  >interesting sounds on the FS1R.
                  >My problem is I'm not very knowledgeable about FM synthesis, I usually find a
                  >voice I like and use the editor going through different algorithms, change the
                  >operator waveforms, mess around with the filter ect...
                  >I find that most of the time it sounds great the way it is especially when you
                  >tweak the FM and Format knobs.

                  last year I uploaded my first 33 patches, mostly try outs, bt maybe they're
                  of use for you...

                  http://musik.freepage.de/summa/fs1r.zip

                  >> > set up DX100 patches but I guess this is a little more complicated then I
                  >> >thought.
                  >>
                  >> I don't know an easy way ... have you programmed those DX100 patches
                  >> yourself or do you need those sounds for older tracks... Maybe someone knows
                  >> a way to convert 4Op sounds into DX7 patches that can be loaded diretly into
                  >> the FS1R...
                  >
                  >I want that DX100 bass sound, like you hear in older Detroit techno.
                  >A simple 4OP simulation would be satisfactory, I really dont want to go out and
                  >buy a DX100.

                  Ahhh, I guess it's the "LateylyBass", I heard of it, and have a version of
                  that sound in the presets of my TX81z, but I'm not sure if it sounds exactly
                  like the DX100 Version, since it uses the additional TX waveforms... If it's
                  the only sound you need I'll see if I find the time converting it to the
                  FS1R... I never done a conversion but it isn't a very complex sound so
                  shouldn't be too hard... I could also programm the formant and FM knobs to
                  add some realtime control...
                  But maybe someone already converted it to the DX7, it seems to be a famous
                  4OP sound, have you checked all the avaiable libs...
                  Btw. have you tried all the bass presets in the DX voice banks F65 till G39,
                  I think some of them come at least close to the LatelyBass and would be a
                  good start for to reprogramm that sound for the FS1R...

                  Summa


                  +
                  +
                  + /\ /\
                  /\ + /\/ \ / \
                  +++++++/++\++/++++++\++/+++ \ /\ /\ / O
                  / \/ \/ \ / \/ \ | | / | /----
                  /\ / + \/ \\---/ ---- | |
                  / \/ + /\ / \----
                  + / \ /
                  + Nicknames : Summa or SumGhost
                  + AIM : Flotorian
                  + Born : 1967
                  + Profession : Student of Computer Science
                  +

                  A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
                  Casio CZ Synth Station : http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/

                  Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!


                  _________________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                • technopurist
                  ... hey Summa, sorry I ve been a little late with my response works keeping me busy. ... Thanks, I ll try and check them out once I figure out how to send
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 6, 2001
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                    Summa wrote:

                    > Hi,

                    hey Summa, sorry I've been a little late with my response works keeping me busy.

                    > last year I uploaded my first 33 patches, mostly try outs, bt maybe they're
                    > of use for you...
                    >
                    > http://musik.freepage.de/summa/fs1r.zip

                    Thanks, I'll try and check them out once I figure out how to send sysex via Midi.
                    I only know how use the FS1R Editor and DX7 Librarian 1.2.6 for my DX7 IIFD.

                    > Ahhh, I guess it's the "LateylyBass", I heard of it, and have a version of
                    > that sound in the presets of my TX81z, but I'm not sure if it sounds exactly
                    > like the DX100 Version, since it uses the additional TX waveforms... If it's
                    > the only sound you need I'll see if I find the time converting it to the
                    > FS1R... I never done a conversion but it isn't a very complex sound so
                    > shouldn't be too hard... I could also programm the formant and FM knobs to
                    > add some realtime control...

                    Wow! that would be very cool but I still haven't figured out how to send sysex so
                    don't go out of your way or anything.
                    The more I think about it finding a good deal on a DX100 wouldnt be such a bad
                    thing.

                    >
                    > But maybe someone already converted it to the DX7, it seems to be a famous
                    > 4OP sound, have you checked all the avaiable libs...

                    I haven't checked on the DX7, I checked the FS1R and I didn't see any Lateyly Bass.

                    The FS1R has a bunch of usable bass voices though, sometimes it's hard to choose.

                    > Btw. have you tried all the bass presets in the DX voice banks F65 till G39,
                    > I think some of them come at least close to the LatelyBass and would be a
                    > good start for to reprogramm that sound for the FS1R...

                    No, I recently bought the a DX7 IIFD to use as a master control keyboard so I'll
                    have to go over all the voices again and check it out.
                    hey thanks again for the tips, i owe you one!

                    Peace.
                    Stephen.
                  • Summa
                    ... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 6, 2001
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                      >hey Summa, sorry I've been a little late with my response works keeping me
                      busy.

                      Never mind, I'm busy myself...

                      >> last year I uploaded my first 33 patches, mostly try outs, bt maybe they're
                      >> of use for you...
                      >>
                      >> http://musik.freepage.de/summa/fs1r.zip
                      >
                      >Thanks, I'll try and check them out once I figure out how to send sysex via
                      >Midi.
                      >I only know how use the FS1R Editor and DX7 Librarian 1.2.6 for my DX7 IIFD.

                      Try to get the free Sounddiver OEM Version for the FS1R, you probably have
                      to contact your local Yamaha central and they'll send you a CD, it's working
                      for MAC and PC and can import sysex. It also can read the .LIB file I put
                      into my ZIP. Other then that it should be possible to use a sequencer to
                      transfer the .mid file into the FS1R. You probably just have to make sure
                      that sysex filtering is turned off...

                      >> Ahhh, I guess it's the "LateylyBass", I heard of it, and have a version of
                      >> that sound in the presets of my TX81z, but I'm not sure if it sounds exactly
                      >> like the DX100 Version, since it uses the additional TX waveforms... If it's
                      >> the only sound you need I'll see if I find the time converting it to the
                      >> FS1R... I never done a conversion but it isn't a very complex sound so
                      >> shouldn't be too hard... I could also programm the formant and FM knobs to
                      >> add some realtime control...
                      >
                      >Wow! that would be very cool but I still haven't figured out how to send
                      sysex >so don't go out of your way or anything.

                      Btw. how is the LatelyBass normaly used in the song, as single sound or
                      doubled and detuned in a performance?

                      >The more I think about it finding a good deal on a DX100 wouldnt be such a bad
                      >thing.

                      Well, you maybe should try to get a TX81z instead, it can read DX100 sound,
                      has better D/A converters, additional operator waveforms, 8 times
                      multitimbrality...

                      >> But maybe someone already converted it to the DX7, it seems to be a famous
                      >> 4OP sound, have you checked all the avaiable libs...
                      >
                      >I haven't checked on the DX7, I checked the FS1R and I didn't see any
                      Lateyly >Bass.

                      There are tons of DX7 sound out there in the net...

                      >
                      >The FS1R has a bunch of usable bass voices though, sometimes it's hard to
                      choose.
                      >
                      >> Btw. have you tried all the bass presets in the DX voice banks F65 till G39,
                      >> I think some of them come at least close to the LatelyBass and would be a
                      >> good start for to reprogramm that sound for the FS1R...
                      >
                      >No, I recently bought the a DX7 IIFD to use as a master control keyboard so
                      I'll
                      >have to go over all the voices again and check it out.

                      When you have your FS1R new it's maybe a bit hard to find them, since not
                      all of the converted DX voices are also used in the performances....

                      >hey thanks again for the tips, i owe you one!

                      ... just think of me when you're famous ;)

                      Summa



                      +
                      +
                      + /\ /\
                      /\ + /\/ \ / \
                      +++++++/++\++/++++++\++/+++ \ /\ /\ / O
                      / \/ \/ \ / \/ \ | | / | /----
                      /\ / + \/ \\---/ ---- | |
                      / \/ + /\ / \----
                      + / \ /
                      + Nicknames : Summa or SumGhost
                      + AIM : Flotorian
                      + Born : 1967
                      + Profession : Student of Computer Science
                      +

                      A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
                      Casio CZ Synth Station : http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/

                      Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!


                      _________________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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