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Difference in sound in 4 op FM synths?

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  • rrooyyccee
    Hi folks, I currently use a korg707 for 4op duties. I had an fs1r and sold it. then i got a tg77 and sold it. My korg oasys also has fm. I recently played a
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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      Hi folks,
      I currently use a korg707 for 4op duties. I had an fs1r and sold it.
      then i got a tg77 and sold it. My korg oasys also has fm.

      I recently played a friends dx27 and liked the sound. It seemed a bit
      fuller than the 707's and fuller than the dx100 I used to own.

      As you can see, I like the fm sound, but then get tired of the synth
      itself.

      Do the 27, 21, tx81z, dx100 or 11 have any sound differences?
    • Summa
      Hi, ... Well, if I remember right, it s giving the user a simplified subtractive style interface... ... Well, I have both TG77 and FS1R... ... If you like the
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 2, 2003
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        Hi,

        On 1 Oct 2003 at 22:11, rrooyyccee wrote:

        >
        > Hi folks,

        > I currently use a korg707 for 4op duties.

        Well, if I remember right, it's giving the user a simplified subtractive style
        interface...

        > I had an fs1r and sold it.
        > then i got a tg77 and sold it.

        Well, I have both TG77 and FS1R...

        > My korg oasys also has fm.
        >
        > I recently played a friends dx27 and liked the sound. It seemed a bit
        > fuller than the 707's and fuller than the dx100 I used to own.
        >
        > As you can see, I like the fm sound, but then get tired of the synth
        > itself.

        If you like the 707 try for intance the Casio CZ-1.

        > Do the 27, 21, tx81z, dx100 or 11 have any sound differences?

        Not really, except DX11 and TX81z, since they have additional operator waveforms
        and If I'm not mistaken those are the only ones on you list with better D/A
        converters as well...

        ...Summa
      • Alexandre Souza
        ... Samma, do you have a GOOD sound made on the TG-77? I know someone who is selling one, and I saw on the net good comments about the TG, but I m unable to
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 2, 2003
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          > Well, I have both TG77 and FS1R...

          Samma, do you have a GOOD sound made on the TG-77? I know someone who is selling one,
          and I saw on the net good comments about the TG, but I'm unable to get it to play and see
          how it works. Can you comment and send a song/sounds/etc?


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        • Jonathan Yeo
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 2, 2003
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          • Summa
            Hi Alexandre, I bought a used TG77 some weeks ago, so I haven t had much time to make sounds or music with this synth. Synthesis wise it has two quite nice
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 2, 2003
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              Hi Alexandre,

              I bought a used TG77 some weeks ago, so I haven't had much time to make sounds or
              music with this synth.
              Synthesis wise it has two quite nice features, one is the possibility to
              construct your own algorithm when using editor software and that you can have up
              to 3 operator feeback lines in every algorithm. Another thing it's possible to
              use a complete AMW (PCM) element, with all filter and envelope settings as
              modulator what can be used to simply create noise FX sounds or to add some life
              to the sound when using it to give normal FM sounds a slight modulation...
              Soundwise compared it's a bit clean sounding compared to TX81z and FS1R but has
              quite the bass fundament...

              ...Summa

              On 2 Oct 2003 at 12:40, Alexandre Souza wrote:

              > > Well, I have both TG77 and FS1R...
              >
              > Samma, do you have a GOOD sound made on the TG-77? I know someone
              > who is selling one,
              > and I saw on the net good comments about the TG, but I'm unable to get
              > it to play and see how it works. Can you comment and send a
              > song/sounds/etc?
              >
              >
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            • rrooyyccee
              I found the TG77 pretty useful. I like sounds with resonance at 100% EVen though the filter is digital it makes some really strange sounds at near self
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 2, 2003
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                I found the TG77 pretty useful. I like sounds with resonance at 100%
                EVen though the filter is digital it makes some really strange sounds
                at near self oscillation. I was completely underwhelmed by bass
                sounds which is why I sold it, but I do regret losing the ability to
                make complex, rhythmic sound effects.

                royce
              • crlwind
                Can you briefly explain what you mean by constructing your own algorithm? I bought a TG-77 a month ago, and am not aware of this capability. Also, my unit is a
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 3, 2003
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                  Can you briefly explain what you mean by constructing your own
                  algorithm? I bought a TG-77 a month ago, and am not aware of this
                  capability. Also, my unit is a bit on the noisey side, but this could
                  just be the effects.

                  Overall, I think the machine is a monster, and I'm very pleased.
                  Overwhelmed even. Now, I just have to replace the backlight, and the
                  world will be a wonderful place.

                  --James
                  http://www.cdbaby.com/jamespotter

                  --- In YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com, "Summa" <flotorian@f...> wrote:

                  > Synthesis wise it has two quite nice features, one is the
                  possibility to
                  > construct your own algorithm when using editor software>
                  > Soundwise compared it's a bit clean sounding compared to TX81z and
                  FS1R but has
                  > quite the bass fundament...

                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  > A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
                  > CZ/VZ Mailing list :
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth
                  > FMHeaven Mailinglist :
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/
                • wildpaws2001
                  The TG77 is the rackmount version of the SY77, minus the sequencer. It allows you to select alternate waveforms for each of the six operators, does AFM, AWM,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 5, 2003
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                    The TG77 is the rackmount version of the SY77, minus the sequencer.
                    It allows you to select alternate waveforms for each of the six
                    operators, does AFM, AWM, and RCM synthesis. As it is 16 bit or
                    better, it should be cleaner sounding than the TX81Z, with six
                    operators vs. four ops. on the 81Z. You can specify how you want the
                    feedback loops to modulate (where they will go), so in effect you are
                    constructing "different algorithms". This would not be a unit that
                    you can audition a few sounds and think you know what it is capable
                    of, you need to delve deeply into programming or use some of the
                    better third party sounds if you don't feel up to programming. IMO,
                    not a unit to be taken lightly, the SY77 (and TG77), SY99, and SY85
                    (no FM) are still producing excellent, usable sounds twelve or more
                    years after their introduction. My SY77 is still my master controller
                    and primary synth ever since I bought it new the week they came out.
                    If a TG77 came my way at the right price, I would certainly grab it.
                    Clyde


                    --- In YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com, "crlwind" <jpotter23@h...> wrote:
                    > Can you briefly explain what you mean by constructing your own
                    > algorithm? I bought a TG-77 a month ago, and am not aware of this
                    > capability. Also, my unit is a bit on the noisey side, but this
                    could
                    > just be the effects.
                    >
                    > Overall, I think the machine is a monster, and I'm very pleased.
                    > Overwhelmed even. Now, I just have to replace the backlight, and
                    the
                    > world will be a wonderful place.
                    >
                    > --James
                    > http://www.cdbaby.com/jamespotter
                    >
                    > --- In YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com, "Summa" <flotorian@f...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Synthesis wise it has two quite nice features, one is the
                    > possibility to
                    > > construct your own algorithm when using editor software>
                    > > Soundwise compared it's a bit clean sounding compared to TX81z
                    and
                    > FS1R but has
                    > > quite the bass fundament...
                    >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > >
                    > > A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
                    > > CZ/VZ Mailing list :
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth
                    > > FMHeaven Mailinglist :
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/
                  • crlwind
                    Thanks for the informative reply! --James ... the ... are ... SY85 ... controller ... out.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 7, 2003
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                      Thanks for the informative reply!

                      --James


                      --- In YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com, "wildpaws2001" <wildpaws@e...> wrote:
                      > The TG77 is the rackmount version of the SY77, minus the sequencer.
                      > It allows you to select alternate waveforms for each of the six
                      > operators, does AFM, AWM, and RCM synthesis. As it is 16 bit or
                      > better, it should be cleaner sounding than the TX81Z, with six
                      > operators vs. four ops. on the 81Z. You can specify how you want
                      the
                      > feedback loops to modulate (where they will go), so in effect you
                      are
                      > constructing "different algorithms". This would not be a unit that
                      > you can audition a few sounds and think you know what it is capable
                      > of, you need to delve deeply into programming or use some of the
                      > better third party sounds if you don't feel up to programming. IMO,
                      > not a unit to be taken lightly, the SY77 (and TG77), SY99, and
                      SY85
                      > (no FM) are still producing excellent, usable sounds twelve or more
                      > years after their introduction. My SY77 is still my master
                      controller
                      > and primary synth ever since I bought it new the week they came
                      out.
                      > If a TG77 came my way at the right price, I would certainly grab it.
                      > Clyde
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com, "crlwind" <jpotter23@h...> wrote:
                      > > Can you briefly explain what you mean by constructing your own
                      > > algorithm? I bought a TG-77 a month ago, and am not aware of this
                      > > capability. Also, my unit is a bit on the noisey side, but this
                      > could
                      > > just be the effects.
                      > >
                      > > Overall, I think the machine is a monster, and I'm very pleased.
                      > > Overwhelmed even. Now, I just have to replace the backlight, and
                      > the
                      > > world will be a wonderful place.
                      > >
                      > > --James
                      > > http://www.cdbaby.com/jamespotter
                      > >
                      > > --- In YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com, "Summa" <flotorian@f...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Synthesis wise it has two quite nice features, one is the
                      > > possibility to
                      > > > construct your own algorithm when using editor software>
                      > > > Soundwise compared it's a bit clean sounding compared to TX81z
                      > and
                      > > FS1R but has
                      > > > quite the bass fundament...
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > >
                      > > > A Touch of Future - Project : http://www.mp3.com/AToF/
                      > > > CZ/VZ Mailing list :
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth
                      > > > FMHeaven Mailinglist :
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/
                    • Summa
                      Well, it s not only the D/A converters, the FS1R has 20Bit and doesn t sound as clean as the TG77 (as long as I use the sine operator waveform) and I read the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 7, 2003
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                        Well, it's not only the D/A converters, the FS1R has 20Bit and doesn't sound as
                        clean as the TG77 (as long as I use the sine operator waveform) and I read the
                        DX7II has 16Bit converters, so it's probably depending on the internal resolution
                        of the operator wavetables as well. It seems for compatibly reasons the sine
                        operator waveform of the FS1R is steppier than the other waveforms, that can be
                        reduced to sine as well when using the skirt parameter. So if someone likes the
                        harsh oldschool DX sounds, it's probably not the TG77 to go for even so it's not
                        impossible to make it sound harsh...

                        ...Summa


                        On 7 Oct 2003 at 18:18, crlwind wrote:

                        > Thanks for the informative reply!
                        >
                        > --James
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com, "wildpaws2001" <wildpaws@e...> wrote:
                        > > The TG77 is the rackmount version of the SY77, minus the sequencer.
                        > > It allows you to select alternate waveforms for each of the six >
                        > operators, does AFM, AWM, and RCM synthesis. As it is 16 bit or >
                        > better, it should be cleaner sounding than the TX81Z, with six >
                        > operators vs. four ops. on the 81Z. You can specify how you want the >
                        > feedback loops to modulate (where they will go), so in effect you are
                        > > constructing "different algorithms". This would not be a unit that >
                        > you can audition a few sounds and think you know what it is capable >
                        > of, you need to delve deeply into programming or use some of the >
                        > better third party sounds if you don't feel up to programming. IMO, >
                        > not a unit to be taken lightly, the SY77 (and TG77), SY99, and SY85 >
                        > (no FM) are still producing excellent, usable sounds twelve or more >
                        > years after their introduction. My SY77 is still my master controller
                        > > and primary synth ever since I bought it new the week they came out.
                        > > If a TG77 came my way at the right price, I would certainly grab it.
                        > > Clyde > > > --- In YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com, "crlwind"
                        > <jpotter23@h...> wrote: > > Can you briefly explain what you mean by
                        > constructing your own > > algorithm? I bought a TG-77 a month ago, and
                        > am not aware of this > > capability. Also, my unit is a bit on the
                        > noisey side, but this > could > > just be the effects. > > > >
                        > Overall, I think the machine is a monster, and I'm very pleased. > >
                        > Overwhelmed even. Now, I just have to replace the backlight, and > the
                        > > > world will be a wonderful place. > > > > --James > >
                        > http://www.cdbaby.com/jamespotter > > > > --- In
                        > YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com, "Summa" <flotorian@f...> wrote: > > > > >
                        > Synthesis wise it has two quite nice features, one is the > >
                        > possibility to > > > construct your own algorithm when using editor
                        > software> > > > Soundwise compared it's a bit clean sounding compared
                        > to TX81z > and > > FS1R but has > > > quite the bass fundament... > >
                        > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > A Touch of Future - Project :
                        > http://www.mp3.com/AToF/ > > > CZ/VZ Mailing list : > >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth > > > FMHeaven Mailinglist : >
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/
                        >
                        >
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                      • Nathan I Smutz
                        It was mentioned that the FS1r s sinewave was stepier than other modern FM synths. I reccall reading that there was an optional feature that made the FS1r
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 8, 2003
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                          It was mentioned that the FS1r's sinewave was "stepier" than other modern
                          FM synths.
                          I reccall reading that there was an optional feature that made the FS1r
                          more lo-fi for DX7 compatibility.
                          Any idea whether this feature was in use when you examined the sine wave?

                          Make a joyful noise,
                          Nathan



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                        • Summa
                          Hi Nathan, I guess you refer to the bitcrusher (LO-FI) from the insert effect section. Since I mostly program my sounds from scratch I have an init
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 8, 2003
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                            Hi Nathan,

                            I guess you refer to the "bitcrusher" (LO-FI) from the insert effect section.
                            Since I mostly program my sounds from scratch I have an init peformance that
                            completely bypass all FX. Other than that the LO-FI FX would affect all other
                            waveforms as well ...
                            When I use the sine waveform the FS1R sounds about the same way the DX200 sounded
                            when I tested it at the music fair, the TG77 is (to my ears) a lot cleaner
                            sounding...

                            ..Summa


                            On 8 Oct 2003 at 13:44, Nathan I Smutz wrote:

                            > It was mentioned that the FS1r's sinewave was "stepier" than other
                            > modern FM synths. I reccall reading that there was an optional feature
                            > that made the FS1r more lo-fi for DX7 compatibility. Any idea whether
                            > this feature was in use when you examined the sine wave?
                            >
                            > Make a joyful noise,
                            > Nathan
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            > For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the
                            > dry? -Jesus
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