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Re: [Y-Mail] Re: Inability to click on embedded links ...

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  • Harryh
    Starting mail in a new FF tab usually works.  When it doesn t, I close FF, wait awhile and restart.  It typically works then.  I suspect a server load
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 1, 2013
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      Starting mail in a new FF tab usually works.  When it doesn't, I close FF, wait awhile and restart.  It typically works then.  I suspect a server load balancing issue in loading Javascript.  It's lovely to be a Beta tester. 

      It's NOT likely a browser issue (IMHO).  The same browser session is also being used to access Gmail & links act normally.



      From: Shal Farley <shal@...>
      To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 9:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [Y-Mail] Re: Inability to click on embedded links ...

      Chris,

      > HOWEVER with Neo FF I have noticed that now I cannot click on the
      > embedded links any more. They do appear in blue and underlined like they
      > used to. But the clickable functionality is no longer there. Indeed the
      > arrow cursor pertains for surrounding text, yet when the cursor is over
      > the link it turns into a non-functioning 'I' shape. It should turn into
      > a 'one fingered salute' icon.

      Hmm, another difference between us. I'm having no problem with links, the cursor becomes the pointing finger as expected and clicking on them opens a new browser tab for the target page. That's true in the preview pane and if I open the message, and it is true for HTML formatted and plain text message bodies.

      I'm still wondering what factor(s) in Neo, in our browsers, our computers, or ??? are causing you all these problems that I'm not seeing. It really feels like there's one of those "not plugged in" issues that we're missing.

      You mentioned Chrome, have you tried other browsers?
      Have you tried using a different computer or a different location?


    • Shal Farley
      Harry, ... It may also be the data connection between the JavaScript code and the server, that might be more fragile than the code loading itself. ... I didn t
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 1, 2013
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        Harry,

        > Starting mail in a new FF tab usually works. When it doesn't, I close
        > FF, wait awhile and restart. It typically works then. I suspect a
        > server load balancing issue in loading Javascript. It's lovely to be a
        > Beta tester.

        It may also be the data connection between the JavaScript code and the server, that might be more fragile than the code loading itself.

        > It's NOT likely a browser issue (IMHO).

        I didn't ask about the browser thinking that there is a bug ("issue") in any of the browsers, but rather as part of the drill-down to see if we can identify the circumstances that cause problems for some users but not others. That's why I posted the Neo version and server ID as well.

        > The same browser session is also being used to access Gmail & links act normally.

        That may well be true, but it doesn't explain anything: links in message bodies work just fine for me in both Neo and gmail.

        -- Shal
      • Chris J Brady
        However I think that the real issue with Neo F is that there is so much Javascript - hard-coded and dynamically generated behind it - that failing a fast
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 2, 2013
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          However I think that the real issue with Neo F is that there is so much Javascript - hard-coded and dynamically generated behind it - that failing a fast connection with 100% integrity - it simply does not work.

          Being a hot sunny day yesterday I went from London down to Brighton beach on the train .Up until Neo, i.e. with Classic (and GMail) I could do emails on the train using a Three mobile dongle on my Acer netbook.

          Yesterday I couldn't use Neo FF because due to the dynamic nature of the connection - switching from mobile tower to tower beside the track - the Javascript didn't fully load properly. 

          I don't think that our issues with Neo FF are browser related. The issue is that it has been so poorly designed - it is BLOATED with Javascript. This requires a rock-steady connection; no good for fast (or slow) train travel. And being partly dynamically created - aka 'on the fly' so to speak - the Javascript has to be continually refreshed as you work to create, type in, send, and delete, etc. emails. 

          It seems that Neo FF has been designed and built by script-kiddies who have no concept of how real users work. They have made the assumption that ALL users have professional kit connected to a rock-steady hi-speed wired broadband service, as I would expect Yahoo to provide its staff with. 

          I know that when we designed a major airline's booking system we had to consider not only those users who had rock-steady Internet connections via broadband (office and home) but also those who were using mobile devices and less than rock-steady mobile phone connections (like mine), and also weak connections through distant wifi services. We did NOT use Javascript - simply because this is uncompiled, it is interpreted, and therefore slow by definition. And certainly we did not use dynamically created Javascript - it was simply impossible to generate this 'on the fly' without unpredictable bugs.

          CJB


          From: Shal Farley <shal@...>
          To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, 2 August 2013, 6:16
          Subject: Re: [Y-Mail] Re: Inability to click on embedded links ...

           
          Harry,

          > Starting mail in a new FF tab usually works. When it doesn't, I close
          > FF, wait awhile and restart. It typically works then. I suspect a
          > server load balancing issue in loading Javascript. It's lovely to be a
          > Beta tester.

          It may also be the data connection between the JavaScript code and the server, that might be more fragile than the code loading itself.

          > It's NOT likely a browser issue (IMHO).

          I didn't ask about the browser thinking that there is a bug ("issue") in any of the browsers, but rather as part of the drill-down to see if we can identify the circumstances that cause problems for some users but not others. That's why I posted the Neo version and server ID as well.

          > The same browser session is also being used to access Gmail & links act normally.

          That may well be true, but it doesn't explain anything: links in message bodies work just fine for me in both Neo and gmail.

          -- Shal



        • jeff.needle@gmail.com
          I don t remember if I said this -- I use the Chromebook to read my mail. Embedded links don t work. Likely an extension of the Chrome browser problem, as the
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 2, 2013
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            I don't remember if I said this -- I use the Chromebook to read my mail. Embedded links don't work. Likely an extension of the Chrome browser problem, as the Chromebook uses Chrome as its OS.






            From: shal@...<shal@...>
            To: <Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013
            Subject: Re: [Y-Mail] Re: Inability to click on embedded links ...

            Harry,

            > Starting mail in a new FF tab usually works. When it doesn't, I close
            > FF, wait awhile and restart. It typically works then. I suspect a
            > server load balancing issue in loading Javascript. It's lovely to be a
            > Beta tester.

            It may also be the data connection between the JavaScript code and the server, that might be more fragile than the code loading itself.

            > It's NOT likely a browser issue (IMHO).

            I didn't ask about the browser thinking that there is a bug ("issue") in any of the browsers, but rather as part of the drill-down to see if we can identify the circumstances that cause problems for some users but not others. That's why I posted the Neo version and server ID as well.

            > The same browser session is also being used to access Gmail & links act normally.

            That may well be true, but it doesn't explain anything: links in message bodies work just fine for me in both Neo and gmail.

            -- Shal




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          • Harryh
            ... server, that might be more fragile than the code loading itself.
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 2, 2013
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              >It may also be the data connection between the JavaScript code and the
              server, that might be more fragile than the code loading itself.<

              How would the user detect that?  What debugging tools exist at the user level?

              >I didn't ask about the browser thinking that there is a bug ("issue") in any of the browsers, but rather as part of the drill-down to see if we
              >can identify the circumstances that cause problems for some users but
              not others. That's why I posted the Neo version and server ID as >well.

              My bad.  Customer Care scripts always attack the browser (empty cache, etc), so I might be overly sensitive.  Where do you find Neo version numbers now (I've forgotten the magic location)? 

              To me the real issue appears to be related to time-of-day which suggests a loading circumstance.  It's not consistent on my end.  Much like the issue of corrupted messages with attachments that even escalation has failed to resolve.  Hundreds of messages come through fine; a few can't be downloaded via web or POP, can't be forwarded, show blank header fields <Action><Show Full Header>.  It's this erratic behavior that is bothersome.




              From: Shal Farley <shal@...>
              To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 11:16 PM
              Subject: Re: [Y-Mail] Re: Inability to click on embedded links ...

              Harry,


              <snip>
            • Harryh
              Your comments relate back to the earlier notion about Javascript on mobile devices regarding speed.  Script-kiddies is most likely a good label for
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 2, 2013
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                Your comments relate back to the earlier notion about Javascript on mobile devices regarding speed.  Script-kiddies is most likely a good label for programmers who seem so impressed with touch and are convinced that mobile is the future.  I wonder if the m.yahoo.com uses the same scripting.  Might be interesting to see. 

                All of these odd artifacts seem related to various versions of the code as it rolls out among users.  By their very inconsistency it suggests some interaction differences between users and Yahoo.

                Ofttimes I wonder if the abandonment of Classic is related to the inability of the current crop of programmers to fully understand the functionality designed into Classic.  They probably couldn't understand all of the coding in Classic so just recreated what they thought Classic did; the original coding staff probably has gone onto better things.  I can recall that a huge application that my organization designed back in Win 3.1/DOS days using the AutoCad api; AutoCad moved on to later versions of Windows which used fewer DOS abstractions.  The development team observed that porting to the later versions would require a complete redo which the end government customer decided was too expensive.  The application then became restricted to select workstations running obsolete software.  A competitor eventually took the work away, porting to XP; of course, the competitor had a good start on the needed functionality derived from our documented and delivered code.



                From: Chris J Brady <chrisjbrady@...>
                To: "Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com" <Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 3:33 AM
                Subject: Re: [Y-Mail] Re: Inability to click on embedded links ...



                However I think that the real issue with Neo F is that there is so much Javascript - hard-coded and dynamically generated behind it - that failing a fast connection with 100% integrity - it simply does not work.

                Being a hot sunny day yesterday I went from London down to Brighton beach on the train .Up until Neo, i.e. with Classic (and GMail) I could do emails on the train using a Three mobile dongle on my Acer netbook.

                Yesterday I couldn't use Neo FF because due to the dynamic nature of the connection - switching from mobile tower to tower beside the track - the Javascript didn't fully load properly. 

                I don't think that our issues with Neo FF are browser related. The issue is that it has been so poorly designed - it is BLOATED with Javascript. This requires a rock-steady connection; no good for fast (or slow) train travel. And being partly dynamically created - aka 'on the fly' so to speak - the Javascript has to be continually refreshed as you work to create, type in, send, and delete, etc. emails. 

                It seems that Neo FF has been designed and built by script-kiddies who have no concept of how real users work. They have made the assumption that ALL users have professional kit connected to a rock-steady hi-speed wired broadband service, as I would expect Yahoo to provide its staff with. 

                I know that when we designed a major airline's booking system we had to consider not only those users who had rock-steady Internet connections via broadband (office and home) but also those who were using mobile devices and less than rock-steady mobile phone connections (like mine), and also weak connections through distant wifi services. We did NOT use Javascript - simply because this is uncompiled, it is interpreted, and therefore slow by definition. And certainly we did not use dynamically created Javascript - it was simply impossible to generate this 'on the fly' without unpredictable bugs.

                CJB


              • Shal Farley
                Harry, ... Beyond my ken. For either script loading or the data connections -- JavaScript is one language I ve never attempted. ... Alt-click (left mouse
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 3, 2013
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                  Harry,

                  > How would the user detect that? What debugging tools exist at the user
                  > level?

                  Beyond my ken. For either script loading or the data connections -- JavaScript is one language I've never attempted.

                  > Where do you find Neo version numbers now (I've forgotten the magic
                  > location)?

                  Alt-click (left mouse button) on the Yahoo Mail logo gives you a pop-up with the info.

                  -- Shal
                • Harryh
                  Ah ha, my latest says: Neo Version: Build number: 2.52.0.8829 Build time: Fri Aug 2 00:41:12 PDT 2013 Hostname: nc34.n6.mail.bf1.yahoo.comI am stunned.  Does
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 3, 2013
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                    Ah ha, my latest says:
                    Neo Version: 
                    Build number: 2.52.0.8829
                    Build time: Fri Aug  2 00:41:12 PDT 2013
                     
                    Hostname: nc34.n6.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
                    I am stunned.  Does this mean this version was released Friday?  Are there that many changes?


                    I decided to look at the page source as I was composing this message.  I was amazed to see the amount of material (including the .js stuff), about 300k worth.  Rather odd.  Looking further I see material in the page source from previous messages and even material from previous page views from other sites.  I guess I don't understand why data from a Fandor site would appear in the page view.  I equally am clueless how to parse this page source.



                    From: Shal Farley <shal@...>
                    To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 1:19 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Y-Mail] Re: Inability to click on embedded links ...

                    Harry,

                    > How would the user detect that?  What debugging tools exist at the user
                    > level?

                    Beyond my ken. For either script loading or the data connections -- JavaScript is one language I've never attempted.

                    > Where do you find Neo version numbers now (I've forgotten the magic
                    > location)? 

                    Alt-click (left mouse button) on the Yahoo Mail logo gives you a pop-up with the info.

                    -- Shal



                    ------------------------------------

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                    DISCLAIMER : Please note that this is a discussion group only. We do not provide official support.
                    YAHOO MAIL OFFICIAL CUSTOMER SUPPORT is  available at : http://is.gd/54K8A
                    ***Yahoo! Groups Links

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                  • Shal Farley
                    Harry, ... I believe so. If I recall previous threads here correctly, Yahoo Mail, at least neo, has been on a rapid release schedule for a long time. -- Shal
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 3, 2013
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                      Harry,

                      > Build time: Fri Aug 2 00:41:12 PDT 2013
                      > I am stunned. Does this mean this version was released Friday? Are
                      > there that many changes?

                      I believe so. If I recall previous threads here correctly, Yahoo Mail, at least neo, has been on a rapid release schedule for a long time.

                      -- Shal
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