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Re: Disposable Email Addresses: A Simple Test Case

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  • Gerry
    You can be skeptical, but you would be wrong. :-) In fact this works now for me with existing DEAs! I just noticed recently that my existing DEAs were again
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 26, 2010
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      You can be skeptical, but you would be wrong. :-)

      In fact this works now for me with existing DEAs! I just noticed recently that my existing DEAs were again going to the correct folders... and I have no filters setup. Looking at the dates, this started working again on 6/18. Of course I can't add any new and specify the folder destination.

      --
      Gerry

      --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth <justkenneth@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'm skeptical that this would have worked differently before the DEA implementation change. Yes you get three emails but all three have the same addressing in their To, Cc, and Bcc fields. So whichever DEA folder assignment (before the change) or filter (after the change) gets checked first will determine where the identical emails get sorted.
      >
      > The bottom line is that each email is identical so they have to get sorted to the same folder.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: h.hans <hans11@...>
      > To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 12:43:55 AM
      > Subject: [Y-Mail] Disposable Email Addresses: A Simple Test Case
      >
      >
      > Here is a simple test case that tests whether
      > or not "folder delivery" is working properly
      > (i.e., as advertised) for Yahoo Mail Plus
      > "disposable email addresses" (DEA).
      >
      > As of now (6/25/2010), this test case FAILS
      > 100% of the time.
      >
      > -----
      >
      > Step 1. Create 3 new folders, say, Folder1,
      > Folder2, and Folder3.
      >
      > Step 2. Create 3 new DEAs. Using 'bozo'
      > as an example basename, these could be
      > 'bozo-f1@...', 'bozo-f2@...',
      > and 'bozo-f3@...'.
      >
      > Step 3. Associate each new DEA with their
      > respective folders.
      >
      > Step 4. Send a test email, TO 'bozo-f1@...',
      > CC 'bozo-f2@...', and BCC 'bozo-f3@...'.
      >
      > Step 5. The correct result is exactly one
      > copy of the email delivered to each of the 3
      > folders.
      >
      > Step 6. As a double-check, repeat Step 4 using
      > the reverse order of addresses, i.e.,
      > TO 'bozo-f3@...', CC 'bozo-f2@...',
      > and BCC 'bozo-f1@...'. Again, the correct
      > result is exactly one copy of the email delivered
      > to each of the 3 folders.
      >
      > ---
      >
      > Before May 2010, this test case would consistently
      > pass. As of May 2010, and continuing to the present
      > (6/25/2010), it consistently fails. When doing
      > the above test, I find that I do, in fact, receive
      > 3 copies of the message, BUT, they are ALL delivered
      > to Folder1.
      >
      > This test case is not intended to just represent
      > situations that are exactly like the test case.
      > It is meant to expose a general flaw in DEAs that
      > will manifest in many situations different from the
      > test case itself.
      >
      > E.g., the above test case is not just about dealing with
      > senders who compose mail using BCC, it is also about
      > handling many other kinds of incoming mail that does
      > not have the recipient address in TO or CC. This
      > includes mail coming in from mailing lists, mail
      > groups, forwarders, and remailers, and probably the
      > majority of commercial email (both legitimate and
      > spam). In other words, the majority of email.
      >
      > This all worked perfectly before May 2010. Going from
      > 100% reliable functionality to this "broken" version
      > is wrong because:
      > - it is disruptive to Premium Mail customers who
      > have come to rely on accurate "folder delivery";
      > - it contradicts Yahoo's own claims about what
      > Mail Plus offers (see Addendum, below); and
      > - nobody at Yahoo has offered any explanation why
      > the new "broken" system is better than the old
      > one which worked perfectly for many years.
      >
      > Clearly, Yahoo knows how to make this work correctly
      > because it worked correctly for years. So it is only
      > a matter of whether they care enough about customers
      > to make the feature work correctly again.
      >
      > Two weeks ago, I submitted a detailed problem report
      > like the above to Yahoo Product Management, and said
      > that I need to see some kind of fix within two weeks
      > or so, or else I will need to migrate to another mail
      > service (see my "June 11" message on
      > http://oz.ccnet.us/yahoomail). At this time, we see
      > that the problem remains. I still think they should
      > fix it, but now I'm looking around.
      >
      > If you have any opinion on this matter (either agreeing
      > or disagreeing), please post any comments here.
      >
      > Also: anyone know if DEAs and "folder delivery" work
      > correctly on some other mail service out there?
      >
      > ADDENDUM: YAHOO'S CLAIMS AS TO HOW THE FEATURE WORKS
      >
      > You can see in various places online that Yahoo
      > advertises the ability to do "folder delivery" with
      > DEAs. Some of these places are listed below. The
      > point is that, if Yahoo advertises a feature, they
      > should make it work reliably. But it does not work
      > as advertised.
      >
      > Note to Yahoo: Please just fix the feature in question,
      > don't just change the wording on the pages referenced
      > below to be consistent with the new "broken" system.
      >
      > 1. YAHOO MAIL PLUS PROMOTIONAL PAGE
      >
      > URL:
      > http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/enhancements/mailplus
      >
      > Directions:
      > Start at www.yahoo.com. Enter "Yahoo Mail Plus" on
      > the search bar. One of the top hits is
      > mailplus.mail.yahoo.com, go there. This is the
      > Mail Plus promotional page. Then click on
      > "AddressGuard / Disposable addresses" and you see
      > a pop-up describing this feature.
      >
      > It says:
      > ``AddressGuard/Disposable Addresses
      > Create disposable email addresses when you don't want
      > to give out your primary address. Messages sent to
      > these addresses are delivered to your Inbox or to any
      > folder you designate.''
      >
      > What they don't say is that if you designate a folder,
      > your designation will not be honored 100% reliably.
      >
      > 2. YAHOO SPAM TUTORIAL
      >
      > URL:
      > http://help.yahoo.com/tutorials/mmail/mmail/mm_otherspam1.html
      >
      > Directions:
      > Start at help.yahoo.com. Click on "Mail", then
      > "Yahoo Mail Classic", then (in the bar near the top)
      > "Tutorials", then "Protecting Yourself From Spam".
      >
      > It says:
      > ``A useful feature in Yahoo! Mail Plus is disposable
      > email addresses. Your disposable address is part of
      > your Mail account, and you can give it to online
      > businesses instead of your "real" email address. If you
      > find spam being sent to a particular disposable
      > address, you can simply delete it and not disrupt your
      > "real" mail account in any way.''
      >
      > What they don't tell you is that, before you delete
      > the address in question, most or all of the spam
      > that came in on it wound up in your Inbox (which
      > is exactly the disruption they seem to be saying
      > would never occur, "in any way").
      >
      > 3. YAHOO DEA TUTORIAL
      >
      > URL:
      > http://help.yahoo.com/tutorials/mmail/mmail/mm_dispaddress1.html
      >
      > Directions:
      > Continuing from the above, click on "Using Multiple
      > Yahoo! Email Addresses".
      >
      > It says:
      > ``You can sort messages sent to your disposable addresses
      > into folders of your choice using filters. Let.s say
      > that you want all the email related to your child.s
      > school to automatically go in the School folder. Just
      > create a disposable address to give to the school and
      > then create a filter to deliver any messages with that
      > address into the School folder.''
      >
      > What they don't say is that not all of the School mail
      > will go to the School folder. Some of it may wind up
      > in your Inbox. For example, someone at the school
      > creates a mailing list for all members of the school
      > band, and the TO line simply says band-members@...
      > Or, the photographer for school pictures sends a
      > broadcast email to all students, and the TO line simply
      > says Undisclosed Recipients. All of these go to your
      > Inbox -- unless you could have predicted in advance who
      > the senders would be, and filter on that, but who can
      > predict that, and who has the time to set up so many
      > filters (especially when this worked perfectly before,
      > without so much trouble)?
      >
      > 4. YAHOO MAIL BLOG
      >
      > URL:
      > http://www.ymailblog.com/blog/2010/05/changes-to-yahoo-mail-options-disposable-email-addresses/
      >
      > It says:
      > ``Disposable Email Addresses in Yahoo! Mail (you might
      > also know them as Addressguard) are a great way to help
      > keep your Inbox free from spam. They are email
      > addresses that you create and give out if you don.t
      > want to give out your primary email address. Messages
      > to your disposable email addresses are delivered to
      > your Inbox or a folder you choose, and you can simply
      > delete them if they start to receive spam.''
      >
      > What they don't say is that most, if not all, spam,
      > even if addressed to a disposable address, will
      > still wind up in your Inbox. So the benefit they
      > describe, while it used to be true, is no longer
      > true at all.
      >
      > See also (for user comments):
      > http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:yahoo_mail_bl498:860287c0a8cdafa3e226c0446d803e73/Changes-to-Yahoo-Mail-Options-Disposable-Email-Addresses
      >
      > 5. DEA CONFIGURATION PAGE IN YAHOO MAIL
      >
      > Directions (in Mail Classic):
      > Log in to your Yahoo Mail Plus account. Then, near
      > the upper right corner, click "Options", then "Mail
      > Options", then in the left column "Disposable
      > Email Addresses".
      >
      > It says:
      > ``You will receive all messages sent to the disposable
      > address - you can set up a filter in Filters Options if
      > you want those messages delivered to a personal folder
      > rather than your Inbox.''
      >
      > What they don't say is that after you set up the
      > filter for delivery to a folder, some of the mail
      > addressed to the DEA will be delivered to the folder,
      > and some won't.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Hans
      >
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