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Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?

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  • b l
    Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729) Windows XP Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even
    Message 1 of 14 , May 23, 2010
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      Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)

      Windows XP

      Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even when I have all add ons disabled. In fact, it has even crashed when I reloaded the closed tabs with my cable modem shut down so I wasn't connected to the internet.

      Most of the time this has happened when I had Yahoo Mail classic open, although most of the time I am online I have Yahoo Mail open so I don't know that is an indicator.

      What's going on? How can I go back to a former version? I was not having this issue before my computer went into the shop, but am inclined to believe an updated Firefox was installed. I had the same problem at the library on multiple computers.

      Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a Firefox update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going back to prior version?

      Bruce

    • Suzi
      I use firefox but haven t experienced the crashes yet. If I use IE8, I crash all of the time. ... Suzi http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses IL Zone 5
      Message 2 of 14 , May 23, 2010
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        I use firefox but haven't experienced the crashes yet.
        If I use IE8, I crash all of the time.
         
        ---
        Suzi
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses
        IL Zone 5



        From: b l <napervilleman2004@...>
        To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 5:13:49 PM
        Subject: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?



        Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)

        Windows XP

        Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even when I have all add ons disabled. In fact, it has even crashed when I reloaded the closed tabs with my cable modem shut down so I wasn't connected to the internet.

        Most of the time this has happened when I had Yahoo Mail classic open, although most of the time I am online I have Yahoo Mail open so I don't know that is an indicator.

        What's going on? How can I go back to a former version? I was not having this issue before my computer went into the shop, but am inclined to believe an updated Firefox was installed. I had the same problem at the library on multiple computers.

        Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a Firefox update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going back to prior version?

        Bruce



      • Sasafrass452
        Firefox crashes occasionally on my Linux computer also, & I don t even use Yahoo Mail. It s probably a bug in the latest version, 3.6.3. I wouldn t recommend
        Message 3 of 14 , May 23, 2010
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          Firefox crashes occasionally on my Linux computer also, & I don't even use Yahoo Mail. It's probably a bug in the latest version, 3.6.3. I wouldn't recommend going back to an older version. Sit tight & wait for the next release. It'll likely be fixed by then. If it's crashing too often for you, try another browser in the meanwhile.
          
          **Sasafrass452, aiBR Co-Moderator**
          
          

          On 05/23/2010 06:13 PM, b l wrote:
          Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)

          Windows XP

          Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even when I have all add ons disabled. In fact, it has even crashed when I reloaded the closed tabs with my cable modem shut down so I wasn't connected to the internet.

          Most of the time this has happened when I had Yahoo Mail classic open, although most of the time I am online I have Yahoo Mail open so I don't know that is an indicator.

          What's going on? How can I go back to a former version? I was not having this issue before my computer went into the shop, but am inclined to believe an updated Firefox was installed. I had the same problem at the library on multiple computers.

          Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a Firefox update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going back to prior version?

          Bruce

        • Shal Farley
          Bruce, ... FWIW, exactly the same revision of Firefox here, on Win XP MCE 2002 at home and Win XP Pro at work, and absolutely no stability problems (but I
          Message 4 of 14 , May 23, 2010
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            Bruce,

            >Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3)
            >Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)
            >
            >Windows XP

            FWIW, exactly the same revision of Firefox here, on Win XP MCE 2002 at home and Win XP Pro at work, and absolutely no stability problems (but I rarely use Yahoo Mail). I've been using this revision since a few days after its release.

            >Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a
            >Firefox update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going
            >back to prior version?

            I'm inclined to think your problems lie elsewhere, but you can step back to 3.5.9 here:
            <http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-older.html>
            Maybe a clean re-install of Firefox will help.

            -- Shal
          • Tech
            I use Firefox 2.5.7 on my laptop and it runs Win 7 Pro and I run Firefox 3.6.3 on my Desktop with XP Pro. the desktop crashes daily.. the laptop version has
            Message 5 of 14 , May 24, 2010
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              I use Firefox 2.5.7 on my laptop and it runs Win 7 Pro and I run Firefox 3.6.3 on my Desktop with XP Pro… the desktop crashes daily.. the laptop version has begun to experience issues with ms C+ updates.  The reason I have not upgraded my laptop version is because my version of roboform is not supported by the upgraded firefox version.  I do use Y Mail now and then… but I don’t think it has anything to do with it.

               

              From: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi
              Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 3:25 PM
              To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?

               

               

              I use firefox but haven't experienced the crashes yet.
              If I use IE8, I crash all of the time.

               

              ---
              Suzi
              http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses
              IL Zone 5

               

               


              From: b l <napervilleman2004@...>
              To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 5:13:49 PM
              Subject: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?


              Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)

              Windows XP

              Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even when I have all add ons disabled. In fact, it has even crashed when I reloaded the closed tabs with my cable modem shut down so I wasn't connected to the internet.

              Most of the time this has happened when I had Yahoo Mail classic open, although most of the time I am online I have Yahoo Mail open so I don't know that is an indicator.

              What's going on? How can I go back to a former version? I was not having this issue before my computer went into the shop, but am inclined to believe an updated Firefox was installed. I had the same problem at the library on multiple computers.

              Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a Firefox update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going back to prior version?

              Bruce



            • pd89751254
              I use Firefox 3.6.4 on two Windows XP computers and Roboform works fine. My problem is that when I open Yahoo Mail with Firefox, it takes about 15 seconds to
              Message 6 of 14 , May 24, 2010
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                I use Firefox 3.6.4 on two Windows XP computers and Roboform works fine. My problem is that when I open Yahoo Mail with Firefox, it takes about 15 seconds to open the page. This doesn't happen with IE.



                Peter

                --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, "Tech" <Tech@...> wrote:
                >
                > I use Firefox 2.5.7 on my laptop and it runs Win 7 Pro and I run Firefox
                > 3.6.3 on my Desktop with XP Pro. the desktop crashes daily.. the laptop
                > version has begun to experience issues with ms C+ updates. The reason I
                > have not upgraded my laptop version is because my version of roboform is not
                > supported by the upgraded firefox version. I do use Y Mail now and then.
                > but I don't think it has anything to do with it.
                >
                >
                >
                > From: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > Suzi
                > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 3:25 PM
                > To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially
                > with Y-Mail?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I use firefox but haven't experienced the crashes yet.
                > If I use IE8, I crash all of the time.
                >
                >
                >
                > ---
                > Suzi
                > http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses
                > IL Zone 5
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: b l <napervilleman2004@...>
                > To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 5:13:49 PM
                > Subject: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401
                > Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)
                >
                > Windows XP
                >
                > Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even when I have all add ons disabled. In
                > fact, it has even crashed when I reloaded the closed tabs with my cable
                > modem shut down so I wasn't connected to the internet.
                >
                > Most of the time this has happened when I had Yahoo Mail classic open,
                > although most of the time I am online I have Yahoo Mail open so I don't know
                > that is an indicator.
                >
                > What's going on? How can I go back to a former version? I was not having
                > this issue before my computer went into the shop, but am inclined to believe
                > an updated Firefox was installed. I had the same problem at the library on
                > multiple computers.
                >
                > Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a Firefox
                > update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going back to prior
                > version?
                >
                > Bruce
                >
              • sy1bzbn
                Get firefox portable and try it there. http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable
                Message 7 of 14 , May 24, 2010
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                  Get firefox portable and try it there.
                  http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable

                  --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, b l <napervilleman2004@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)
                  >
                  > Windows XP
                  >
                  > Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even when I have all add ons disabled. In fact, it has even crashed when I reloaded the closed tabs with my cable modem shut down so I wasn't connected to the internet.
                  >
                  > Most of the time this has happened when I had Yahoo Mail classic open, although most of the time I am online I have Yahoo Mail open so I don't know that is an indicator.
                  >
                  > What's going on? How can I go back to a former version? I was not having this issue before my computer went into the shop, but am inclined to believe an updated Firefox was installed. I had the same problem at the library on multiple computers.
                  >
                  > Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a Firefox update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going back to prior version?
                  >
                  > Bruce
                  >
                • b l
                  Well, my FF can crash multiple times in a matter of minutes. Although, in an effort to avoid FF, I have run into an issue with IE, too. Perhaps related, AVG
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 24, 2010
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                    Well, my FF can crash multiple times in a matter of minutes. Although, in an effort to avoid FF, I have run into an issue with IE, too. Perhaps related, AVG warned me about file C:\WINDOWS\$NtServicePackUninstall$\actshell.htm  that could not be scanned "probably due to an invalid file structure (address 6ac42bfe)"

                    ???????????????

                    Bruce



                    From: Tech <Tech@...>
                    To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 2:00:43 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?



                    I use Firefox 2.5.7 on my laptop and it runs Win 7 Pro and I run Firefox 3.6.3 on my Desktop with XP Pro… the desktop crashes daily.. the laptop version has begun to experience issues with ms C+ updates.  The reason I have not upgraded my laptop version is because my version of roboform is not supported by the upgraded firefox version.  I do use Y Mail now and then… but I don’t think it has anything to do with it.

                     

                    From: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi
                    Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 3:25 PM
                    To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?

                     

                     

                    I use firefox but haven't experienced the crashes yet.
                    If I use IE8, I crash all of the time.

                     

                    ---
                    Suzi
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses
                    IL Zone 5

                     

                     


                    From: b l <napervilleman2004@...>
                    To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 5:13:49 PM
                    Subject: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?


                    Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)

                    Windows XP

                    Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even when I have all add ons disabled. In fact, it has even crashed when I reloaded the closed tabs with my cable modem shut down so I wasn't connected to the internet.

                    Most of the time this has happened when I had Yahoo Mail classic open, although most of the time I am online I have Yahoo Mail open so I don't know that is an indicator.

                    What's going on? How can I go back to a former version? I was not having this issue before my computer went into the shop, but am inclined to believe an updated Firefox was installed. I had the same problem at the library on multiple computers.

                    Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a Firefox update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going back to prior version?

                    Bruce






                  • stephen_r1937
                    Yes, but it s not FF crashing. The Contacts list seems to be disabled. I m using YM Classic. When I go to the Contacts list, the menu does not drop down, and
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 25, 2010
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                      Yes, but it's not FF crashing. The Contacts list seems to be disabled. I'm using YM Classic. When I go to the Contacts list, the menu does not drop down, and if I type something into the Search All Contacts box, nothing happens. This just started recently, and today is the first day I have encountered it (I used the Contacts list last week).

                      It's a Firefox problem, because when I switched to Chrome the menu dropped down as usual.

                      Stephen
                      >
                    • Tech
                      It is apparent that some dependency files in FF have issues which I have no doubt they are working on. Considering Y!M and Y Mail aren t the only things it
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 25, 2010
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                        It is apparent that some dependency files in FF have issues which I have no doubt they are working on.  Considering Y!M and Y Mail aren’t the only things it crashes on.. and the issues vary.. some have issues with Roboform while others don’t.  Lots of things to consider.

                         

                        From: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stephen_r1937

                        Yes, but it's not FF crashing. The Contacts list seems to be disabled. I'm using YM Classic. When I go to the Contacts list, the menu does not drop down, and if I type something into the Search All Contacts box, nothing happens. This just started recently, and today is the first day I have encountered it (I used the Contacts list last week).

                        It's a Firefox problem, because when I switched to Chrome the menu dropped down as usual.

                        Stephen

                      • b l
                        I have occasionally had those particular problems but typically when my computer is overloaded. Reloading typically resolves the problem which indicates to me
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 26, 2010
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                          I have occasionally had those particular problems but typically when my computer is overloaded. Reloading typically resolves the problem which indicates to me it is more a hiccup than a bug.

                          Bruce



                          From: stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@...>
                          To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tue, May 25, 2010 10:41:58 AM
                          Subject: [Y-Mail] Re: Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?


                          Yes, but it's not FF crashing. The Contacts list seems to be disabled. I'm using YM Classic. When I go to the Contacts list, the menu does not drop down, and if I type something into the Search All Contacts box, nothing happens. This just started recently, and today is the first day I have encountered it (I used the Contacts list last week).

                          It's a Firefox problem, because when I switched to Chrome the menu dropped down as usual.

                          Stephen

                        • b l
                          While, I went back to version 3.5.9 and although I have had some issues, they don t seem as pernicious (knock on wood.) Bruce ________________________________
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 26, 2010
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                            While, I went back to version 3.5.9 and although I have had some issues, they don't seem as pernicious (knock on wood.)

                            Bruce



                            From: b l <napervilleman2004@...>
                            To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 8:27:33 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?



                            Well, my FF can crash multiple times in a matter of minutes. Although, in an effort to avoid FF, I have run into an issue with IE, too. Perhaps related, AVG warned me about file C:\WINDOWS\$NtServicePackUninstall$\actshell.htm  that could not be scanned "probably due to an invalid file structure (address 6ac42bfe)"

                            ???????????????

                            Bruce



                            From: Tech <Tech@...>
                            To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 2:00:43 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?



                            I use Firefox 2.5.7 on my laptop and it runs Win 7 Pro and I run Firefox 3.6.3 on my Desktop with XP Pro… the desktop crashes daily.. the laptop version has begun to experience issues with ms C+ updates.  The reason I have not upgraded my laptop version is because my version of roboform is not supported by the upgraded firefox version.  I do use Y Mail now and then… but I don’t think it has anything to do with it.

                             

                            From: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Suzi
                            Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 3:25 PM
                            To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?

                             

                             

                            I use firefox but haven't experienced the crashes yet.
                            If I use IE8, I crash all of the time.

                             

                            ---
                            Suzi
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses
                            IL Zone 5

                             

                             


                            From: b l <napervilleman2004@...>
                            To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 5:13:49 PM
                            Subject: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?


                            Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)

                            Windows XP

                            Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even when I have all add ons disabled. In fact, it has even crashed when I reloaded the closed tabs with my cable modem shut down so I wasn't connected to the internet.

                            Most of the time this has happened when I had Yahoo Mail classic open, although most of the time I am online I have Yahoo Mail open so I don't know that is an indicator.

                            What's going on? How can I go back to a former version? I was not having this issue before my computer went into the shop, but am inclined to believe an updated Firefox was installed. I had the same problem at the library on multiple computers.

                            Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a Firefox update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going back to prior version?

                            Bruce









                          • Craig Wright
                            Hi, If you are using Firefox 2, the contact list is broken. Sad but true. We know what is wrong but are no longer fixing issues with that browser. The
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 26, 2010
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                              Re: [Y-Mail] Re: Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail? Hi,

                              If you are using Firefox 2, the contact list is broken. Sad but true. We know what is wrong but are no longer fixing issues with that browser. The relentless march of progress! Sorry about that.

                              Peace,
                              Craig


                              On 5/25/10 8:41 AM, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:


                               
                               
                                 


                              Yes, but it's not FF crashing. The Contacts list seems to be disabled. I'm using YM Classic. When I go to the Contacts list, the menu does not drop down, and if I type something into the Search All Contacts box, nothing happens. This just started recently, and today is the first day I have encountered it (I used the Contacts list last week).

                              It's a Firefox problem, because when I switched to Chrome the menu dropped down as usual.

                              Stephen
                              >

                               
                                 


                            • Tech
                              Peter, What version of Roboform are you running? I have 6.9.97 From: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pd89751254 Sent:
                              Message 14 of 14 , May 30, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment

                                Peter, What version of Roboform are you running? I have 6.9.97

                                 

                                From: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pd89751254
                                Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 11:30 AM
                                To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: {Disarmed} [Y-Mail] Re: Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?

                                 

                                 

                                I use Firefox 3.6.4 on two Windows XP computers and Roboform works fine. My problem is that when I open Yahoo Mail with Firefox, it takes about 15 seconds to open the page. This doesn't happen with IE.

                                Peter

                                --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, "Tech" <Tech@...> wrote:

                                >
                                > I use Firefox 2.5.7 on my laptop and it runs Win 7 Pro and I run Firefox
                                > 3.6.3 on my Desktop with XP Pro. the desktop crashes daily.. the laptop
                                > version has begun to experience issues with ms C+ updates. The reason I
                                > have not upgraded my laptop version is because my version of roboform is
                                not
                                > supported by the upgraded firefox version. I do use Y Mail now and then.
                                > but I don't think it has anything to do with it.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                > Suzi
                                > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 3:25 PM
                                > To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox,
                                especially
                                > with Y-Mail?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I use firefox but haven't experienced the crashes yet.
                                > If I use IE8, I crash all of the time.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ---
                                > Suzi
                                > http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses
                                > IL Zone 5
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > _____
                                >
                                > From: b l <napervilleman2004@...>
                                > To: Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 5:13:49 PM
                                > Subject: [Y-Mail] Anybody having issues w Firefox, especially with Y-Mail?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401
                                > Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)
                                >
                                > Windows XP
                                >
                                > Firefox is crashing relentlessly, even when I have all add ons disabled.
                                In
                                > fact, it has even crashed when I reloaded the closed tabs with my cable
                                > modem shut down so I wasn't connected to the internet.
                                >
                                > Most of the time this has happened when I had Yahoo Mail classic open,
                                > although most of the time I am online I have Yahoo Mail open so I don't
                                know
                                > that is an indicator.
                                >
                                > What's going on? How can I go back to a former version? I was not having
                                > this issue before my computer went into the shop, but am inclined to
                                believe
                                > an updated Firefox was installed. I had the same problem at the library on
                                > multiple computers.
                                >
                                > Again, I am inclined to believe this is a problem specific to a Firefox
                                > update, so what can I do to relieve this, perhaps going back to prior
                                > version?
                                >
                                > Bruce
                                >

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