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Bcc included in Filter Field/Ryan

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  • Bill
    Hi Ryan...I know you wanted us to use that thread you started a while back....but I just looked for it and can t find it anywhere....sorry I tried I m a bit
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 7, 2007
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      Hi Ryan...I know you wanted us to use that thread you started a while back....but I just looked for it and can't find it anywhere....sorry I tried

      I'm a bit behind....but last week someone suggested including Bcc as a "Rule" for Filters.....EXCELLENT SUGGESTION!!!!!!

      Ryan...as I'm sure you know.....most Spam and Junk Mail is sent Using the Bcc field.....it's pretty much a no brainer Ryan.....I can't figure out why Yahoo left it out......and some people might have reason to Filter Bcc Mail to a separate Folder....either using Bcc as a stand alone Rule or in conjunction with others

      I think setting it up as it's own "Rule" would be a good idea....ACTUALLY.....why not separate all 3.....like this

      If all of the following rules are true...

      From header

      To header

      Cc header

      Bcc header

      Subject

      Body


      This would give us the Greatest Flexibility when creating Filters, Ryan......and we all know how important Filters have become

      Bottom Line......if Bcc is offered as an Option for Sending Mail then we should have it as an Option for Filtering Mail

      Ryan I'm Thanking You ahead of time because I'm sure you'll make this happen

      Bill


    • James
      I don t know if that d be do-able. The whole point of bcc is that addresses inserted there are not visible (Blind). The receiving end is never supposed to
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 8, 2007
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        I don't know if that'd be do-able. The whole point of bcc is that
        addresses inserted there are not visible (Blind). The receiving end
        is never supposed to know the contents of the bcc. Being able to
        filter by this could violate that rule.


        --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, Bill <billsville_99@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Ryan...I know you wanted us to use that thread you started a
        while back....but I just looked for it and can't find it
        anywhere....sorry I tried
        >
        > I'm a bit behind....but last week someone suggested including Bcc
        as a "Rule" for Filters.....EXCELLENT SUGGESTION!!!!!!
        >
        > Ryan...as I'm sure you know.....most Spam and Junk Mail is sent
        Using the Bcc field.....it's pretty much a no brainer Ryan.....I
        can't figure out why Yahoo left it out......and some people might
        have reason to Filter Bcc Mail to a separate Folder....either using
        Bcc as a stand alone Rule or in conjunction with others
        >
        > I think setting it up as it's own "Rule" would be a good
        idea....ACTUALLY.....why not separate all 3.....like this
        >
        > If all of the following rules are true...From headerTo headerCc
        headerBcc headerSubjectBody
        >
        > This would give us the Greatest Flexibility when creating Filters,
        Ryan......and we all know how important Filters have become
        >
        > Bottom Line......if Bcc is offered as an Option for Sending Mail
        then we should have it as an Option for Filtering Mail
        >
        > Ryan I'm Thanking You ahead of time because I'm sure you'll make
        this happen
        >
        > Bill
        >
      • Bill
        Hey James.......well if Yahoo can See It to Send It.....then Yahoo can See It to Filter It......Me....the Receiving End.....doesn t want to See any part of It
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 9, 2007
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          Hey James.......well if Yahoo can See It to Send It.....then Yahoo can See It to Filter It......Me....the Receiving End.....doesn't want to See any part of It

          Bill



          --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jakk9406@...> wrote:
          >
          > I don't know if that'd be do-able. The whole point of bcc is that
          > addresses inserted there are not visible (Blind). The receiving end
          > is never supposed to know the contents of the bcc. Being able to
          > filter by this could violate that rule.
          >
          >
          > --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, Bill billsville_99@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Ryan...I know you wanted us to use that thread you started a
          > while back....but I just looked for it and can't find it
          > anywhere....sorry I tried
          > >
          > > I'm a bit behind....but last week someone suggested including Bcc
          > as a "Rule" for Filters.....EXCELLENT SUGGESTION!!!!!!
          > >
          > > Ryan...as I'm sure you know.....most Spam and Junk Mail is sent
          > Using the Bcc field.....it's pretty much a no brainer Ryan.....I
          > can't figure out why Yahoo left it out......and some people might
          > have reason to Filter Bcc Mail to a separate Folder....either using
          > Bcc as a stand alone Rule or in conjunction with others
          > >
          > > I think setting it up as it's own "Rule" would be a good
          > idea....ACTUALLY.....why not separate all 3.....like this
          > >
          > > If all of the following rules are true...From headerTo headerCc
          > headerBcc headerSubjectBody
          > >
          > > This would give us the Greatest Flexibility when creating Filters,
          > Ryan......and we all know how important Filters have become
          > >
          > > Bottom Line......if Bcc is offered as an Option for Sending Mail
          > then we should have it as an Option for Filtering Mail
          > >
          > > Ryan I'm Thanking You ahead of time because I'm sure you'll make
          > this happen
          > >
          > > Bill
          > >
          >
        • James
          Well yes, I suppose Y! can see it, but Y! is not allowed to let you see it. It s like when accepting a message w/ a Bcc, Y! is taking an oath to keep the
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 9, 2007
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            Well yes, I suppose Y! can see it, but Y! is not allowed to let you
            see it. It's like when accepting a message w/ a Bcc, Y! is taking an
            oath to keep the bcc's contents secret. By letting you filter it,
            they would be giving you some knowledge of what the bcc contained,
            thus violating the oath.

            Aside from the ethical issue of partially revealing the bcc, I don't
            think Y! could technically implement filtering by bcc. When a
            message is sent, whether from a Y! server, an MSN server, whatever,
            it is a file containing data of the message body, the to, cc, from,
            time sent... I don't think bcc is included in the file. I'm not
            exactly sure, though. If it is included in the file, the Email
            program is under explicit orders to keep it hidden. So, either case,
            the Email program either can't or won't reveal the bcc (hence it
            being absent from message headers).

            Really, it can't happen because it goes against the definition of the
            bcc. Even if it didn't, it's likely technically not possible for an
            email provider to allow filtering by bcc.

            --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <billsville_99@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey James.......well if Yahoo can See It to Send It.....then Yahoo
            can
            > See It to Filter It......Me....the Receiving End.....doesn't want
            to See
            > any part of It
            >
            > Bill
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jakk9406@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I don't know if that'd be do-able. The whole point of bcc is that
            > > addresses inserted there are not visible (Blind). The receiving
            end
            > > is never supposed to know the contents of the bcc. Being able to
            > > filter by this could violate that rule.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, Bill billsville_99@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi Ryan...I know you wanted us to use that thread you started a
            > > while back....but I just looked for it and can't find it
            > > anywhere....sorry I tried
            > > >
            > > > I'm a bit behind....but last week someone suggested including
            Bcc
            > > as a "Rule" for Filters.....EXCELLENT SUGGESTION!!!!!!
            > > >
            > > > Ryan...as I'm sure you know.....most Spam and Junk Mail is sent
            > > Using the Bcc field.....it's pretty much a no brainer Ryan.....I
            > > can't figure out why Yahoo left it out......and some people might
            > > have reason to Filter Bcc Mail to a separate Folder....either
            using
            > > Bcc as a stand alone Rule or in conjunction with others
            > > >
            > > > I think setting it up as it's own "Rule" would be a good
            > > idea....ACTUALLY.....why not separate all 3.....like this
            > > >
            > > > If all of the following rules are true...From headerTo headerCc
            > > headerBcc headerSubjectBody
            > > >
            > > > This would give us the Greatest Flexibility when creating
            Filters,
            > > Ryan......and we all know how important Filters have become
            > > >
            > > > Bottom Line......if Bcc is offered as an Option for Sending Mail
            > > then we should have it as an Option for Filtering Mail
            > > >
            > > > Ryan I'm Thanking You ahead of time because I'm sure you'll make
            > > this happen
            > > >
            > > > Bill
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • dj_surge
            Actually, the RECEIVING end does NOT have access to the bcc field. It s not a weakness anywhere, it s by design. The purpose of bcc is blind copy -
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 10, 2007
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              Actually, the RECEIVING end does NOT have access to the "bcc" field. It's not a "weakness" anywhere, it's by design.

              The purpose of "bcc" is blind copy - therefore if any part of the email (including the headers), contains this information, then there is no "bcc" to speak of. It's essentially a "cc".

              As the SENDING side however, yes, your application/program/email app, "knows" who you sent your email to, including the blind copies. This is likewise nothing special, you can use any email software (desktop or webmail) and you'll see this. Just check your SENT folder in Outlook for example.

              As an aside, it's really not a good idea....sorry. Let's assume it's actually possible - if all the bcc emails were somehow available in headers:
              • the whole concept of bcc, and whatever it's used for is gone
                 
              • if you were planning on not letting Person A know that you sent a copy of your email to Person B, well, that's not happening - it's trivial to sift through headers - much like whatever filter will do.
                  
              • spammers will have a field day - how? Think of it this way, since gaining access to "bcc" is synonymous to just using "cc"....oh my...
                  
                • So if your buddy sent the entire neighborhood an email, and if only one PC in the neighborhood had  malware that harvests email addresses, all the malware has to do is scan the headers...and all the neighborhood's email addresses are toast.
              Have a great holiday season everyone!

              -----------
              Ed

              --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <billsville_99@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey James.......well if Yahoo can See It to Send It.....then Yahoo can
              > See It to Filter It......Me....the Receiving End.....doesn't want to See
              > any part of It
              >
              > Bill
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, "James" jakk9406@ wrote:
              > >
              > > I don't know if that'd be do-able. The whole point of bcc is that
              > > addresses inserted there are not visible (Blind). The receiving end
              > > is never supposed to know the contents of the bcc. Being able to
              > > filter by this could violate that rule.
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, Bill billsville_99@ wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi Ryan...I know you wanted us to use that thread you started a
              > > while back....but I just looked for it and can't find it
              > > anywhere....sorry I tried
              > > >
              > > > I'm a bit behind....but last week someone suggested including Bcc
              > > as a "Rule" for Filters.....EXCELLENT SUGGESTION!!!!!!
              > > >
              > > > Ryan...as I'm sure you know.....most Spam and Junk Mail is sent
              > > Using the Bcc field.....it's pretty much a no brainer Ryan.....I
              > > can't figure out why Yahoo left it out......and some people might
              > > have reason to Filter Bcc Mail to a separate Folder....either using
              > > Bcc as a stand alone Rule or in conjunction with others
              > > >
              > > > I think setting it up as it's own "Rule" would be a good
              > > idea....ACTUALLY.....why not separate all 3.....like this
              > > >
              > > > If all of the following rules are true...From headerTo headerCc
              > > headerBcc headerSubjectBody
              > > >
              > > > This would give us the Greatest Flexibility when creating Filters,
              > > Ryan......and we all know how important Filters have become
              > > >
              > > > Bottom Line......if Bcc is offered as an Option for Sending Mail
              > > then we should have it as an Option for Filtering Mail
              > > >
              > > > Ryan I'm Thanking You ahead of time because I'm sure you'll make
              > > this happen
              > > >
              > > > Bill
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Ryan
              Hi Bill, I m pretty sure the other respondents are correct about the fact that we can t offer access to the BCC info for filtering purposes, however if you
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 10, 2007
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                Hi Bill,

                I'm pretty sure the other respondents are correct about the fact that
                we can't offer access to the BCC info for filtering purposes, however
                if you think you are getting spammed via BCC can't you just create a
                filter set to "To/CC header: does not contain billsville_99"?

                -Ryan K
              • Bill
                Hi Ryan......yeah I guess you and the guys are right....I was just reaching for perfection....lolololololol.....I use Filters and Folders and they make life so
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 11, 2007
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                  Hi Ryan......yeah I guess you and the guys are right....I was just reaching for perfection....lolololololol.....I use Filters and Folders and they make life so much easier.....very organized....and I do have 2 Filters set up for billsville_99.....that's become my public e-dress.....one Filter uses it for the "To/Cc" field.....and another uses it for the "Subject" field.....both Filters send all billsville_99 straight to the trash......the only reason I get mail from the few yahoo groups that I belong to is that I also set up a Filter directing all mail with......yahoogroups.com.....in the To/Cc Field to a Folder I set up called.....Yahoo Groups.....and it works perfectly.....I also created a couple of Personal e-dresses each with their own Filter and Folder.......and again....it works perfectly........and I have other Filters and Folders set up for various things....and yep....you guessed it....they all work just fine

                  Now having done all this.....my Inbox is left with nothing to do....except....each week no more than...let's say 6....pieces of spam....each using Bcc.....make it past the Filters and into my Inbox.....I KNOW...I KNOW...I Can Live With It....but like I said and the beginning.....I was Reaching for Perfection....lolololololololol

                  Bill



                  --- In Y-Mail@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan" <ymailblog1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Bill,
                  >
                  > I'm pretty sure the other respondents are correct about the fact that
                  > we can't offer access to the BCC info for filtering purposes, however
                  > if you think you are getting spammed via BCC can't you just create a
                  > filter set to "To/CC header: does not contain billsville_99"?
                  >
                  > -Ryan K
                  >
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