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An excellent idea for Z-axis power feed for X3 and SX3

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  • rashidk11
    Love me X3, but cranking Z-handle to lower/raise the head gets annoying fast. After some thinking I got a good idea on how to motorize it with minimal expense
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 6 11:14 AM
      Love me X3, but cranking Z-handle to lower/raise the head
      gets annoying fast. After some thinking I got a good
      idea on how to motorize it with minimal expense and/or
      amt of work

      - replace the Z-crank with a similar OD V-belt pulley
      OR, figure out a way to turn a V-groove right onto the
      Z crank.
      - when using a pulley, drill a hole toward the edge and mount the
      handle, so you can still hand-crank it

      - under the bench, fashion a mount for a motor of your
      choosing, complete with a proper OD pulley to give you
      max RPM of say 300 . A reversible motor shall do :) , DC, may
      be even a speed controller
      - assuming V-belt you choose has nuff play, it will take you
      a sec or 2 to install or remove the belt, should you need
      100% hand-crank back
    • rashidk11
      Well, I took off the Z-crank, then the dial off the crank and was able to chuck the crank up in me 9x20. Cut a groove in, may be 3/16 deep - for a smaller
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 6 12:54 PM
        Well,

        I took off the Z-crank, then the dial off the crank and was able to
        chuck the crank up in me 9x20. Cut a groove in, may be 3/16 deep - for
        a smaller Polyflex (5M730) V-belt I had around. The belt now fits
        perfectly into that groove, so no need for a pulley.

        Would've had it all done, but I don't have a good motor at the moment.
        Need something like 1/3 HP reversible 110V @ 1750 RPM .


        --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, "rashidk11"
        <rashid.karimov@...> wrote:
        >
        > Love me X3, but cranking Z-handle to lower/raise the head
        > gets annoying fast. After some thinking I got a good
        > idea on how to motorize it with minimal expense and/or
        > amt of work
        >
        > - replace the Z-crank with a similar OD V-belt pulley
        > OR, figure out a way to turn a V-groove right onto the
        > Z crank.
        > - when using a pulley, drill a hole toward the edge and mount the
        > handle, so you can still hand-crank it
      • cba_melbourne
        ... The first X3 had only 270mm Z stroke, a gas strut to compensate the weight of the head, and a 1:1 bevel gear drive to the z-leadscrew. That meant that 135
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 6 8:21 PM
          > Love me X3, but cranking Z-handle to lower/raise the head
          > gets annoying fast.

          The first X3 had only 270mm Z stroke, a gas strut to compensate the
          weight of the head, and a 1:1 bevel gear drive to the z-leadscrew.
          That meant that 135 handwheel revolutions did cover the full z stroke.

          Later on, the X3 became available with 100mm extended z-column, still
          with gas strut. The gas strut was however the same as on the short
          X3, and did limit the Z travel downwards to the same overall stroke
          as the short X3. This meant it was not possible to lower the head
          close to the table. The bevel gearing was still 1:1. And it still
          took only 135 revs end to end.

          Then they decided to deliver the tall X3 version without gas strut,
          such as to make use of the full possible extended travel. But now the
          head became too heavy to lift with the handwheel. So they decided to
          put in a 2:1 bevel gear. Now you have some 100mm longer stroke AND
          due to the 2:1 gearing you now also need to turn the handwheel twice
          as often to lift the same distance. Instead of 135 handwheel
          revolutions for the full stroke, you now have something close to 400
          revolutions and still have to turn harder.

          I mention this to put things in perspective. On the original early
          X3's one honestly barely misses a power z-drive. But on the latest
          extended hight models a z-drive may be very highly desirable. As for
          the need of being detacheable, on the SoperX3 you have fine worm
          drive quill downfeed (lets call it Z2 axis) and could live very well
          with a servo assisted Z1-axis alone. But the plain X3 has no fine
          quill downfeed, and manual Z1 is an absolute necessity. In practice,
          I use on the plain short X3 the quill (Z2) for coarse Z adjustment,
          and the Z1 for fine downfeed as well as for bringing the quill
          downfeed into range for the task at hand. But everybody will have
          developed his own habits on this. Chris
        • rashidk11
          I hear you, but in my case, the Z quill is on DRO . I also fashioned an extremely effective quill stop, so even with native quill spider-wheel lacking fine
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 7 4:38 AM
            I hear you, but in my case, the Z quill is on DRO .
            I also fashioned an extremely effective quill stop,
            so even with native quill spider-wheel lacking fine
            feed, I get by just fine. Also, even with the V-belt
            on the Z-crank, I reckon I will retain the ability to
            hand crank it. And if the motor impedes that, removing
            that belt will take about a second.





            --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, "cba_melbourne" <cba_mel@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > > Love me X3, but cranking Z-handle to lower/raise the head
            > > gets annoying fast.
            >
            > The first X3 had only 270mm Z stroke, a gas strut to compensate the
            > weight of the head, and a 1:1 bevel gear drive to the z-leadscrew.
            > That meant that 135 handwheel revolutions did cover the full z stroke.
            >
            > Later on, the X3 became available with 100mm extended z-column, still
            > with gas strut. The gas strut was however the same as on the short
            > X3, and did limit the Z travel downwards to the same overall stroke
            > as the short X3. This meant it was not possible to lower the head
            > close to the table. The bevel gearing was still 1:1. And it still
            > took only 135 revs end to end.
            >
            > Then they decided to deliver the tall X3 version without gas strut,
            > such as to make use of the full possible extended travel. But now the
            > head became too heavy to lift with the handwheel. So they decided to
            > put in a 2:1 bevel gear. Now you have some 100mm longer stroke AND
            > due to the 2:1 gearing you now also need to turn the handwheel twice
            > as often to lift the same distance. Instead of 135 handwheel
            > revolutions for the full stroke, you now have something close to 400
            > revolutions and still have to turn harder.
            >
            > I mention this to put things in perspective. On the original early
            > X3's one honestly barely misses a power z-drive. But on the latest
            > extended hight models a z-drive may be very highly desirable. As for
            > the need of being detacheable, on the SoperX3 you have fine worm
            > drive quill downfeed (lets call it Z2 axis) and could live very well
            > with a servo assisted Z1-axis alone. But the plain X3 has no fine
            > quill downfeed, and manual Z1 is an absolute necessity. In practice,
            > I use on the plain short X3 the quill (Z2) for coarse Z adjustment,
            > and the Z1 for fine downfeed as well as for bringing the quill
            > downfeed into range for the task at hand. But everybody will have
            > developed his own habits on this. Chris
            >
          • Len Alessi
            I would really like to see your quill stop if you wouldn t mind snapping a few photos. Thanks, Len _____ From: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 7 11:40 AM

              I would really like to see your quill stop if you wouldn’t mind snapping a few photos.

               

              Thanks,

               

              Len

               


              From: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com [mailto: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of rashidk11
              Sent: S at urday, July 07, 2007 5:38 AM
              To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [X_Series_Mills] Re: An excellent idea for Z-axis power feed for X3 and SX3

               

              I hear you, but in my case, the Z quill is on DRO .
              I also fashioned an extremely effective quill stop,
              so even with n at ive quill spider-wheel lacking fine
              feed, I get by just fine. Also, even with the V-belt
              on the Z-crank, I reckon I will retain the ability to
              hand crank it. And if the motor impedes th at , removing
              th at belt will take about a second.

              --- In X_Series_Mills@ yahoogroups. com, "cba_melbourne" <cba_mel@... >
              wrote:

              >
              > > Love me X3, but cranking Z-handle to lower/raise the head
              > > gets annoying fast.
              >
              > The first X3 had only 270mm Z stroke, a gas strut to compens
              w:st="on">at e the
              > weight of the head, and a 1:1 bevel gear drive to the z-leadscrew.
              > Th at meant th
              w:st="on">at 135 handwheel revolutions did cover the full z stroke.
              >
              > L at er on, the X3 became
              available with 100mm extended z-column, still
              > with gas strut. The gas strut was however the same as on the short
              > X3, and did limit the Z travel downwards to the same overall stroke
              > as the short X3. This meant it was not possible to lower the head
              > close to the table. The bevel gearing was still 1:1. And it still
              > took only 135 revs end to end.
              >
              > Then they decided to deliver the tall X3 version without gas strut,
              > such as to make use of the full possible extended travel. But now the
              > head became too heavy to lift with the handwheel. So they decided to
              > put in a 2:1 bevel gear. Now you have some 100mm longer stroke AND
              > due to the 2:1 gearing you now also need to turn the handwheel twice
              > as often to lift the same distance. Instead of 135 handwheel
              > revolutions for the full stroke, you now have something close to 400
              > revolutions and still have to turn harder.
              >
              > I mention this to put things in perspective. On the original early
              > X3's one honestly barely misses a power z-drive. But on the l
              w:st="on">at est
              > extended hight models a z-drive may be very highly desirable. As for
              > the need of being detacheable, on the SoperX3 you have fine worm
              > drive quill downfeed (lets call it Z2 axis) and could live very well
              > with a servo assisted Z1-axis alone. But the plain X3 has no fine
              > quill downfeed, and manual Z1 is an absolute necessity. In practice,
              > I use on the plain short X3 the quill (Z2) for coarse Z adjustment,
              > and the Z1 for fine downfeed as well as for bringing the quill
              > downfeed into range for the task at
              hand. But everybody will have
              > developed his own habits on this. Chris
              >

            • rashidk11
              OK, I am all done. Had to use an old surpluscenter.com $15 DC gear motor and fashion a 50V DC power supply from a transformer and some diodes and capacitor I
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 8 5:29 AM
                OK,

                I am all done. Had to use an old surpluscenter.com
                $15 DC gear motor and fashion a 50V DC power supply
                from a transformer and some diodes and capacitor I had
                around.

                DPDS switch reverses the feed. Added a fuse too. Got
                some NC switches to may be build limit switches at a
                later point.



                [URL=http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img32&img=/8/7/8/f_DSC0399m_0d039ff.jpg][IMG]http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/8/7/8/t_DSC0399m_0d039ff.jpg%5b/IMG][/URL]
                http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img32&img=/8/7/8/f_DSC0399m_0d039ff.jpg

                [URL=http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img26&img=/8/7/8/f_DSC0400m_c154ba8.jpg][IMG]http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/8/7/8/t_DSC0400m_c154ba8.jpg%5b/IMG][/URL]
                http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img26&img=/8/7/8/f_DSC0400m_c154ba8.jpg






                --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, "Len Alessi"
                <LenAlessiMail@...> wrote:
                >
                > I would really like to see your quill stop if you wouldn't mind
                snapping a
                > few photos.
                >
                >
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                >
                >
                > Len
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com]
                > On Behalf Of rashidk11
                > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 5:38 AM
                > To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [X_Series_Mills] Re: An excellent idea for Z-axis power
                feed for X3
                > and SX3
                >
                >
                >
                > I hear you, but in my case, the Z quill is on DRO .
                > I also fashioned an extremely effective quill stop,
                > so even with native quill spider-wheel lacking fine
                > feed, I get by just fine. Also, even with the V-belt
                > on the Z-crank, I reckon I will retain the ability to
                > hand crank it. And if the motor impedes that, removing
                > that belt will take about a second.
                >
                > --- In X_Series_Mills@ <mailto:X_Series_Mills%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com, "cba_melbourne" <cba_mel@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > > Love me X3, but cranking Z-handle to lower/raise the head
                > > > gets annoying fast.
                > >
                > > The first X3 had only 270mm Z stroke, a gas strut to compensate the
                > > weight of the head, and a 1:1 bevel gear drive to the z-leadscrew.
                > > That meant that 135 handwheel revolutions did cover the full z stroke.
                > >
                > > Later on, the X3 became available with 100mm extended z-column, still
                > > with gas strut. The gas strut was however the same as on the short
                > > X3, and did limit the Z travel downwards to the same overall stroke
                > > as the short X3. This meant it was not possible to lower the head
                > > close to the table. The bevel gearing was still 1:1. And it still
                > > took only 135 revs end to end.
                > >
                > > Then they decided to deliver the tall X3 version without gas strut,
                > > such as to make use of the full possible extended travel. But now the
                > > head became too heavy to lift with the handwheel. So they decided to
                > > put in a 2:1 bevel gear. Now you have some 100mm longer stroke AND
                > > due to the 2:1 gearing you now also need to turn the handwheel twice
                > > as often to lift the same distance. Instead of 135 handwheel
                > > revolutions for the full stroke, you now have something close to 400
                > > revolutions and still have to turn harder.
                > >
                > > I mention this to put things in perspective. On the original early
                > > X3's one honestly barely misses a power z-drive. But on the latest
                > > extended hight models a z-drive may be very highly desirable. As for
                > > the need of being detacheable, on the SoperX3 you have fine worm
                > > drive quill downfeed (lets call it Z2 axis) and could live very well
                > > with a servo assisted Z1-axis alone. But the plain X3 has no fine
                > > quill downfeed, and manual Z1 is an absolute necessity. In practice,
                > > I use on the plain short X3 the quill (Z2) for coarse Z adjustment,
                > > and the Z1 for fine downfeed as well as for bringing the quill
                > > downfeed into range for the task at hand. But everybody will have
                > > developed his own habits on this. Chris
                > >
                >
              • Preston Petty
                Congratulations. Seems like it could be a handy addition. However, one question: what is a DPDS switch ? Good luck with it, Pres ...
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 9 7:14 AM
                  Congratulations. Seems like it could be a handy addition.
                  However, one question:
                  what is a "DPDS switch"?

                  Good luck with it,
                  Pres
                  --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, "rashidk11" <rashid.karimov@...
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > OK,
                  >
                  > I am all done. Had to use an old surpluscenter.com
                  > $15 DC gear motor and fashion a 50V DC power supply
                  > from a transformer and some diodes and capacitor I had
                  > around.
                  >
                  > DPDS switch reverses the feed. Added a fuse too. Got
                  > some NC switches to may be build limit switches at a
                  > later point.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [URL=http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img32&img=/8/7/8/
                  f_DSC0399m_0d039ff.jpg][IMG]http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/8/7/8/
                  t_DSC0399m_0d039ff.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
                  > http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img32&img=/8/7/8/
                  f_DSC0399m_0d039ff.jpg
                  >
                  > [URL=http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img26&img=/8/7/8/
                  f_DSC0400m_c154ba8.jpg][IMG]http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/8/7/8/
                  t_DSC0400m_c154ba8.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
                  > http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img26&img=/8/7/8/
                  f_DSC0400m_c154ba8.jpg
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, "Len Alessi"
                  > <LenAlessiMail@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I would really like to see your quill stop if you wouldn't mind
                  > snapping a
                  > > few photos.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Len
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > From: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com]
                  > > On Behalf Of rashidk11
                  > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 5:38 AM
                  > > To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [X_Series_Mills] Re: An excellent idea for Z-axis power
                  > feed for X3
                  > > and SX3
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I hear you, but in my case, the Z quill is on DRO .
                  > > I also fashioned an extremely effective quill stop,
                  > > so even with native quill spider-wheel lacking fine
                  > > feed, I get by just fine. Also, even with the V-belt
                  > > on the Z-crank, I reckon I will retain the ability to
                  > > hand crank it. And if the motor impedes that, removing
                  > > that belt will take about a second.
                  > >
                  > > --- In X_Series_Mills@ <mailto:X_Series_Mills%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > yahoogroups.com, "cba_melbourne" <cba_mel@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > Love me X3, but cranking Z-handle to lower/raise the head
                  > > > > gets annoying fast.
                  > > >
                  > > > The first X3 had only 270mm Z stroke, a gas strut to compensate
                  the
                  > > > weight of the head, and a 1:1 bevel gear drive to the z-
                  leadscrew.
                  > > > That meant that 135 handwheel revolutions did cover the full z
                  stroke.
                  > > >
                  > > > Later on, the X3 became available with 100mm extended z-column,
                  still
                  > > > with gas strut. The gas strut was however the same as on the
                  short
                  > > > X3, and did limit the Z travel downwards to the same overall
                  stroke
                  > > > as the short X3. This meant it was not possible to lower the
                  head
                  > > > close to the table. The bevel gearing was still 1:1. And it
                  still
                  > > > took only 135 revs end to end.
                  > > >
                  > > > Then they decided to deliver the tall X3 version without gas
                  strut,
                  > > > such as to make use of the full possible extended travel. But
                  now the
                  > > > head became too heavy to lift with the handwheel. So they
                  decided to
                  > > > put in a 2:1 bevel gear. Now you have some 100mm longer stroke
                  AND
                  > > > due to the 2:1 gearing you now also need to turn the handwheel
                  twice
                  > > > as often to lift the same distance. Instead of 135 handwheel
                  > > > revolutions for the full stroke, you now have something close to
                  400
                  > > > revolutions and still have to turn harder.
                  > > >
                  > > > I mention this to put things in perspective. On the original
                  early
                  > > > X3's one honestly barely misses a power z-drive. But on the
                  latest
                  > > > extended hight models a z-drive may be very highly desirable. As
                  for
                  > > > the need of being detacheable, on the SoperX3 you have fine worm
                  > > > drive quill downfeed (lets call it Z2 axis) and could live very
                  well
                  > > > with a servo assisted Z1-axis alone. But the plain X3 has no
                  fine
                  > > > quill downfeed, and manual Z1 is an absolute necessity. In
                  practice,
                  > > > I use on the plain short X3 the quill (Z2) for coarse Z
                  adjustment,
                  > > > and the Z1 for fine downfeed as well as for bringing the quill
                  > > > downfeed into range for the task at hand. But everybody will
                  have
                  > > > developed his own habits on this. Chris
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • rashidk11
                  Me bad :) - it is a DPDT: dual pole dual throw switch. 2 varieties exist: toggle - where you have to hold the switch in extreme positions and regular where
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 9 9:50 AM
                    Me bad :) - it is a DPDT:

                    dual pole dual throw switch. 2 varieties
                    exist: "toggle" - where you have to hold
                    the switch in extreme positions and "regular"
                    where the switch will stay in whatever position
                    you put it into.

                    I used "regular" - as I'd like to able to do
                    stuff as mill's head moves up or down, but of
                    course you need to be careful with it. The motor
                    doesn't have enough power to snap anything and
                    belt will act as a safety feature by slipping
                    when overloaded. Still limit switches are a good
                    idea


                    --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, "Preston Petty" <pres68y@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Congratulations. Seems like it could be a handy addition.
                    > However, one question:
                    > what is a "DPDS switch"?
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