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Re: laser edge/center finder?

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  • dfaprinting
    Just a follow up. The laser is here and there was a machining problem with the shank, going back for exchange so not sure how long it will take to get a
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 3, 2010
      Just a follow up. The laser is here and there was a machining problem with the shank, going back for exchange so not sure how long it will take to get a replacement. Do to machining variances the laser would not go in the collet in the same position each time, so it needed to be zeroed each time it was inserted. I'm told this is an anomaly.

      For jobs that only require 0.01 inch accuracy, this thing should be better than perfect. First few attempts got me to within 0.005 each time compared to my new Starrett edge finder. And yes if you have a beveled edge it is going to be difficult to determine where that edge really sits, I'm sure with time I will learn how to use it on beveled corners. Use of Drychem or other layout fluid will help reduce the glare from the laser and allow you to better see the real dot.
    • Steve Blackmore
      ... In the time you wasted dycheming it, you could have touched off accurately with an edge finder ;) Steve Blackmore --
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 3, 2010
        On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 15:31:09 -0000, you wrote:

        >Just a follow up. The laser is here and there was a machining problem with the shank, going back for exchange so not sure how long it will take to get a replacement. Do to machining variances the laser would not go in the collet in the same position each time, so it needed to be zeroed each time it was inserted. I'm told this is an anomaly.
        >
        >For jobs that only require 0.01 inch accuracy, this thing should be better than perfect. First few attempts got me to within 0.005 each time compared to my new Starrett edge finder. And yes if you have a beveled edge it is going to be difficult to determine where that edge really sits, I'm sure with time I will learn how to use it on beveled corners. Use of Drychem or other layout fluid will help reduce the glare from the laser and allow you to better see the real dot.

        In the time you wasted dycheming it, you could have touched off
        accurately with an edge finder ;)

        Steve Blackmore
        --
      • dfaprinting
        I pretty much use some kind of layout stuff on everything. I like to see the lines as a second check to what I should be doing on the mill. Caught myself many
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 3, 2010
          I pretty much use some kind of layout stuff on everything. I like to see the lines as a second check to what I should be doing on the mill. Caught myself many times where I dropped a count (or several counts) on the wheel and I'm sure the same will apply now that I started using my DRO.

          This was a tip given in a machining book that I read. Tip was to always scribe the design onto the work as it does several things including check to make sure the design is correct. Might have found a calculation mistake in a piece of work that I do not want to make again from scratch just today. Need to check it tomorrow and see where the mistake is. I used a scribe in the mill to trace out the cut lines I had calculated and a couple don't seem to line up with the center lines I had drawn.

          I also did some work with the new edge finder, sure is a lot easier to interpret than the cheap $5 one I bought before. I guess there really is a reason it cost $25. I'm sure I'll use it more often now that I have one that works well. But the laser still seems like it will give me some advantages so if I can get one that chucks up properly I think I'll use it a lot too. Everything I have done to this point has been cut exclusively to scribed lines with depth about the only thing I've been concerned enough about to count.

          Mostly today was playing spent a bunch of time cleaning and oiling the mill. Adjusted gibs. Trammed column. Squared vice. And then played with the DRO a little to check this next set of steps on a piece that is very old that I want to finish. Wanted the DRO running to bring a higher level of accuracy to this step but I need to fool around a little to make sure I understand what I am doing before removing metal (can't put it back if I make a mistake).

          And yes the Vactra #4 is really nice, let me tighten the gibs a lot and still slide easily, very happy with it. Got enough to last half a lifetime so I hope it does not go bad. Now my only wish would be if the saddle for the X axis were wider like the Y axis is when you add the extended base (extended Y kit). I have both the extended Y and larger table on my X1, the Y is without question worth every single penny. The bigger table is OK in that you have a larger table, but I wish the two had come together with the wider/longer saddle for the longer table.

          --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > In the time you wasted dycheming it, you could have touched off
          > accurately with an edge finder ;)
          >
          > Steve Blackmore
          > --
          >
        • dfaprinting
          I always try to work to rocket science standards, seldom hit them but I still have to try else I ll never improve. I will say that I spend a lot of time
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 3, 2010
            I always try to work to rocket science standards, seldom hit them but I still have to try else I'll never improve. I will say that I spend a lot of time looking at the work that needs to be done and making sure I understand exactly what and how I need to do it. I haven't made a lot of things, but of the things I've made I don't have a lot of pieces that I haven't been able to save in one way or another. I'm also really slow at all this stuff still, most of you guys would fire me if I was working for you. Thankfully I don't need to make a living doing this.

            --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Mortimer" <mortimer@...> wrote:
            >
            > 100 years ago we would use washers for a count on the mill or saddle ,(( a man who has never made a mistake has never done nothing)) a couple of swipes with a black broad felt tip pen that's if you are working to cape Canaveral standards???
            > Charles
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: dfaprinting
            > To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:48 AM
            > Subject: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?
            >
            >
            >
            > I pretty much use some kind of layout stuff on everything. I like to see the lines as a second check to what I should be doing on the mill. Caught myself many times where I dropped a count (or several counts) on the wheel and I'm sure the same will apply now that I started using my DRO.
            >
            > This was a tip given in a machining book that I read. Tip was to always scribe the design onto the work as it does several things including check to make sure the design is correct. Might have found a calculation mistake in a piece of work that I do not want to make again from scratch just today. Need to check it tomorrow and see where the mistake is. I used a scribe in the mill to trace out the cut lines I had calculated and a couple don't seem to line up with the center lines I had drawn.
            >
            > I also did some work with the new edge finder, sure is a lot easier to interpret than the cheap $5 one I bought before. I guess there really is a reason it cost $25. I'm sure I'll use it more often now that I have one that works well. But the laser still seems like it will give me some advantages so if I can get one that chucks up properly I think I'll use it a lot too. Everything I have done to this point has been cut exclusively to scribed lines with depth about the only thing I've been concerned enough about to count.
            >
            > Mostly today was playing spent a bunch of time cleaning and oiling the mill. Adjusted gibs. Trammed column. Squared vice. And then played with the DRO a little to check this next set of steps on a piece that is very old that I want to finish. Wanted the DRO running to bring a higher level of accuracy to this step but I need to fool around a little to make sure I understand what I am doing before removing metal (can't put it back if I make a mistake).
            >
            > And yes the Vactra #4 is really nice, let me tighten the gibs a lot and still slide easily, very happy with it. Got enough to last half a lifetime so I hope it does not go bad. Now my only wish would be if the saddle for the X axis were wider like the Y axis is when you add the extended base (extended Y kit). I have both the extended Y and larger table on my X1, the Y is without question worth every single penny. The bigger table is OK in that you have a larger table, but I wish the two had come together with the wider/longer saddle for the longer table.
            >
            > --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > In the time you wasted dycheming it, you could have touched off
            > > accurately with an edge finder ;)
            > >
            > > Steve Blackmore
            > > --
            > >
            >
          • John
            Hey Charles, You reminded me that 101 years ago we were screwcutting on a lathe with chalk marks on chuck and bed to get the starting position to engage the
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010
              Hey Charles,
                             You reminded me that 101 years ago we were screwcutting on a lathe with chalk marks on chuck and bed to get the starting position to engage the screwcutting feed, no reversing the machine back in the dark ages. Near 60 years later I'm still learning and making mistakes.
                                              John.
            • John
              Hey Charles, Did you ever use Fag Papers? Great for levelling things up in clapped out shaping machine vises or for use when detecting the edge of material
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010
                Hey Charles,
                                Did you ever use Fag Papers? Great for levelling things up in clapped out shaping machine vises or for use when detecting the edge of material before cutting. Easy as pie, put a bit of round bar in the drill chuck rotate slowly and while holding the fag paper against the side of the stock carefully wind the table or chuck/collet until it just nips the paper. Move across half the diameter  and you are within 0.001 or so of where you hope to be.
                                No machinist should be without a packet of Fag Papers in my humble experience dating back to when there were still flat belts driving machine and fast and loose pulleys instead of clutches.
                                                                    Memories of days long gone but not forgotten.
                                                                        John.
              • Richard
                Around here, they frown on folks walking around with a pack of Zig Zags..... :( Heck, if you get pulled over and they see the Fag Papers, your in for a long
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010
                  Around here, they frown on folks walking around with a pack of Zig Zags..... :( 
                  Heck, if you get pulled over and they see the Fag Papers, your in for a long wait while they rip your vehicle apart.
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: John
                  Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:27 PM
                  Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?

                   

                  Hey Charles,
                                  Did you ever use Fag Papers? Great for levelling things up in clapped out shaping machine vises or for use when detecting the edge of material before cutting. Easy as pie, put a bit of round bar in the drill chuck rotate slowly and while holding the fag paper against the side of the stock carefully wind the table or chuck/collet until it just nips the paper. Move across half the diameter  and you are within 0.001 or so of where you hope to be.
                                  No machinist should be without a packet of Fag Papers in my humble experience dating back to when there were still flat belts driving machine and fast and loose pulleys instead of clutches.
                                                                      Memories of days long gone but not forgotten.
                                                                          John.

                • Ned Home Shop
                  Greetings, Brass shim stock of 0.001 to 0.005 can be used in place of the Zig-Zags for setting tool height and it will really confuse the cops! :) Ned
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010

                    Greetings,

                     

                    Brass shim stock of 0.001” to 0.005” can be used in place of the Zig-Zags for setting tool height and it will really confuse the cops!   :)

                     

                    Ned

                    http://www.home-machine-shop.com

                     


                    From: Richard [mailto:rwskinner@...]
                    Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:02 AM
                    To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?

                     

                     

                    Around here, they frown on folks walking around with a pack of Zig Zags..... :( 

                    Heck, if you get pulled over and they see the Fag Papers, your in for a long wait while they rip your vehicle apart.

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    From: John

                    Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:27 PM

                    Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?

                     

                     

                    Hey Charles,

                                    Did you ever use Fag Papers? Great for levelling things up in clapped out shaping machine vises or for use when detecting the edge of material before cutting. Easy as pie, put a bit of round bar in the drill chuck rotate slowly and while holding the fag paper against the side of the stock carefully wind the table or chuck/collet until it just nips the paper. Move across half the diameter  and you are within 0.001 or so of where you hope to be.

                                    No machinist should be without a packet of Fag Papers in my humble experience dating back to when there were still flat belts driving machine and fast and loose pulleys instead of clutches.

                                                                        Memories of days long gone but not forgotten.

                                                                            John.


                    __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5173 (20100604) __________

                    The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

                    http://www.eset.com


                    __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5173 (20100604) __________


                    The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.


                    http://www.eset.com


                    __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5173 (20100604) __________


                    The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.


                    http://www.eset.com

                  • harryeales@aol.com
                    Hey John, I got through hundreds of packets of RIZZLA cigarette papers during my years as a full time Miller/Setter/Operator. Long retired now, I still get
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010
                      Hey John,
                       
                      I got through hundreds of packets of RIZZLA cigarette papers during my years as a full time Miller/Setter/Operator. Long retired now, I still get through several packets a year even though I gave up smoking 2 years 3 weeks and three days ago. lol.
                       
                      Harry
                       
                      In a message dated 04/06/2010 18:26:07 GMT Daylight Time, elijon@... writes:


                      Hey Charles,
                                      Did you ever use Fag Papers? Great for levelling things up in clapped out shaping machine vises or for use when detecting the edge of material before cutting. Easy as pie, put a bit of round bar in the drill chuck rotate slowly and while holding the fag paper against the side of the stock carefully wind the table or chuck/collet until it just nips the paper. Move across half the diameter  and you are within 0.001 or so of where you hope to be.
                                      No machinist should be without a packet of Fag Papers in my humble experience dating back to when there were still flat belts driving machine and fast and loose pulleys instead of clutches.
                                                                          Memories of days long gone but not forgotten.
                                                                              John.
                    • Richard
                      LOL ... From: Ned Home Shop To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 1:08 PM Subject: RE: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010
                        LOL
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 1:08 PM
                        Subject: RE: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?

                         

                        Greetings,

                        Brass shim stock of 0.001” to 0.005” can be used in place of the Zig-Zags for setting tool height and it will really confuse the cops!   :)

                        Ned

                        http://www.home- machine-shop. com


                        From: Richard [mailto:rwskinner@ ccwip.net]
                        Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:02 AM
                        To: X_Series_Mills@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?

                         

                        Around here, they frown on folks walking around with a pack of Zig Zags..... :( 

                        Heck, if you get pulled over and they see the Fag Papers, your in for a long wait while they rip your vehicle apart.

                        ----- Original Message -----

                        From: John

                        Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:27 PM

                        Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?

                         

                        Hey Charles,

                                        Did you ever use Fag Papers? Great for levelling things up in clapped out shaping machine vises or for use when detecting the edge of material before cutting. Easy as pie, put a bit of round bar in the drill chuck rotate slowly and while holding the fag paper against the side of the stock carefully wind the table or chuck/collet until it just nips the paper. Move across half the diameter  and you are within 0.001 or so of where you hope to be.

                                        No machinist should be without a packet of Fag Papers in my humble experience dating back to when there were still flat belts driving machine and fast and loose pulleys instead of clutches.

                                                                            Memories of days long gone but not forgotten.

                                                                                John.


                        __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5173 (20100604) __________

                        The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

                        http://www.eset. com


                        __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5173 (20100604) __________


                        The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.


                        http://www.eset. com


                        __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5173 (20100604) __________


                        The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.


                        http://www.eset. com

                      • Wilf Baker
                        How old are you John, I can remember that and I m older than you Wilf From: John Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 6:27 PM To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010
                          How old are you John, I can remember that and I'm older than you
                          Wilf

                          From: John
                          Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 6:27 PM
                          Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?

                           

                          Hey Charles,
                                          Did you ever use Fag Papers? Great for levelling things up in clapped out shaping machine vises or for use when detecting the edge of material before cutting. Easy as pie, put a bit of round bar in the drill chuck rotate slowly and while holding the fag paper against the side of the stock carefully wind the table or chuck/collet until it just nips the paper. Move across half the diameter  and you are within 0.001 or so of where you hope to be.
                                          No machinist should be without a packet of Fag Papers in my humble experience dating back to when there were still flat belts driving machine and fast and loose pulleys instead of clutches.
                                                                              Memories of days long gone but not forgotten.
                                                                                  John.

                        • John
                          Wilf, I m a mere stripling of 69 and a bit, stopped smoking 20 years back (60 a day to zero after 3 days of the real flu and never bothered to start smoking
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010
                            Wilf,
                                            I'm a mere stripling of 69 and a bit, stopped smoking 20 years back (60 a day to zero after 3 days of the real flu and never bothered to start smoking again) but still have a few packets of Rizlas left for use when setting up.
                                                            John.
                          • Wilf Baker
                            John Can give you 2 years on age and 10 on the stopping smoking Wilf From: John Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:51 PM To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com Subject:
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010
                              John
                              Can give you 2 years on age and 10 on the stopping smoking
                              Wilf

                              From: John
                              Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:51 PM
                              Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?

                               

                              Wilf,
                                              I'm a mere stripling of 69 and a bit, stopped smoking 20 years back (60 a day to zero after 3 days of the real flu and never bothered to start smoking again) but still have a few packets of Rizlas left for use when setting up.
                                                              John.

                            • John
                              Hunt round in the scrap box for a sealed bearing of a decent sized OD. By decent I mean 1 or 20mm not 13/16 or 15mm. Find a bit of silver steel or drill rod
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 4, 2010
                                Hunt round in the scrap box for a sealed bearing of a decent sized OD.
                                By decent I mean 1" or 20mm not 13/16" or 15mm.
                                Find a bit of silver steel or drill rod for the cousins that fits the bore. put a 2" long piece into the bearing with a dab of loctite.

                                now put the shank in a collet and start the machine, about 500 to 600 revs, not critical, and approach the edge of the work.

                                Just as the edge of the bearing touches the work it wil sloww to about 1/2 speed.
                                You are now 1/2 the OD of the bearing away from the edge.

                                Simple and if you crash it, so what, just a new piece of silver steel is needed.

                                John S.
                              • Cliff Coggin
                                But it s such a bugger to light. Cliff Coggin. ... From: Ned Home Shop To: Sent: Friday, June
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 5, 2010
                                  But it's such a bugger to light.

                                  Cliff Coggin.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Ned Home Shop" <ned@...>
                                  To: <X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 7:08 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?


                                  > Greetings,
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Brass shim stock of 0.001" to 0.005" can be used in place of the Zig-Zags
                                  > for setting tool height and it will really confuse the cops! :)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ned
                                  >
                                  > http://www.home-machine-shop.com <http://www.home-machine-shop.com/>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > _____
                                  >
                                  > From: Richard [mailto:rwskinner@...]
                                  > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:02 AM
                                  > To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Around here, they frown on folks walking around with a pack of Zig
                                  > Zags.....
                                  > :(
                                  >
                                  > Heck, if you get pulled over and they see the Fag Papers, your in for a
                                  > long
                                  > wait while they rip your vehicle apart.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  >
                                  > From: John <mailto:elijon@...>
                                  >
                                  > To: X_Series_Mills@ <mailto:X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:27 PM
                                  >
                                  > Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hey Charles,
                                  >
                                  > Did you ever use Fag Papers? Great for levelling things up
                                  > in clapped out shaping machine vises or for use when detecting the edge of
                                  > material before cutting. Easy as pie, put a bit of round bar in the drill
                                  > chuck rotate slowly and while holding the fag paper against the side of
                                  > the
                                  > stock carefully wind the table or chuck/collet until it just nips the
                                  > paper.
                                  > Move across half the diameter and you are within 0.001 or so of where you
                                  > hope to be.
                                  >
                                  > No machinist should be without a packet of Fag Papers in my
                                  > humble experience dating back to when there were still flat belts driving
                                  > machine and fast and loose pulleys instead of clutches.
                                  >
                                  > Memories of days long
                                  > gone but not forgotten.
                                  >
                                  > John.
                                • MICHAEL
                                  Where is around here ? Michale Floriduh, USA
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jun 5, 2010
                                    Where is "around here"?

                                    Michale
                                    Floriduh, USA

                                    --- In X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rwskinner@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Around here, they frown on folks walking around with a pack of Zig Zags..... :(
                                    > Heck, if you get pulled over and they see the Fag Papers, your in for a long wait while they rip your vehicle apart.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: John
                                    > To: X_Series_Mills@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:27 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [X_Series_Mills] Re: laser edge/center finder?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hey Charles,
                                    > Did you ever use Fag Papers? Great for levelling things up in clapped out shaping machine vises or for use when detecting the edge of material before cutting. Easy as pie, put a bit of round bar in the drill chuck rotate slowly and while holding the fag paper against the side of the stock carefully wind the table or chuck/collet until it just nips the paper. Move across half the diameter and you are within 0.001 or so of where you hope to be.
                                    > No machinist should be without a packet of Fag Papers in my humble experience dating back to when there were still flat belts driving machine and fast and loose pulleys instead of clutches.
                                    > Memories of days long gone but not forgotten.
                                    > John.
                                    >
                                  • John
                                    Hi Harry, Red, green or blue? For those not in the know they are different thicknesses. I am ignoring the Liquorish as they are no better than by eye being so
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jun 5, 2010
                                      Hi Harry,
                                                  Red, green or blue? For those not in the know they are different thicknesses. I am ignoring the Liquorish as they are no better than by eye being so very thick.
                                                      Last used my Baccy tin some 20 years ago but it still smells good even now, not that it tempts me to try rolling again.
                                                          John. 
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