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RE: [XSL-FO] Is this a job for XSLT/FO

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  • LEvensen@iKnowMed.com
    Anne, you could transform your XML to PDF, using XSL-FO (RenderX or other package) and at that point, use the AcrobatReader ActiveX plug-in to print (to the
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 8, 2001
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      Is this a job for XSLT/FO
      Anne, you could transform your XML to PDF, using XSL-FO (RenderX or other package) and at that point, use the AcrobatReader ActiveX plug-in to print (to the client's default printer) but then they' d have to have loaded AcrobatReader on their system. 
       However, how much 'manipulation' is being done on the XML before it gets printed? If the client has unlimited freedom to edit that, your stylesheet (XSL-FO) that would be used to transform your XML->PDF may not be too happy anymore.
       
      By the way the JavaPrintService API from Sun looks very interesting and promising (to me).  I would be very happy at the prospect of not dealing with Adobe in the near future..
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Anne Goguen [mailto:anne.goguen@...]
      Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 3:26 PM
      To: 'XSL-FO@egroups.com'
      Subject: [XSL-FO] Is this a job for XSLT/FO


      Hello everyone. I am just getting started in the wild and wacky world of XML etc...

      Here is my dilemma.

      ad-hoc reporting

      I have a dynamic report that is querying data from oracle and is displaying it on an XML based web page. There are some basic javascripts in the code that allow the user to sort the data after it is displayed.

      PROBLEM

      How can I get it to print. Here is one solution that I have tried and it works.  This copies the data on the screen

      and allows you to paste it into either work or excel upon which you can then further manipulate it or print it.  This
      solution works good but the boss wants it all in one button and not using any other client side programs.

      <input type='button' value='Send To Word'

      onClick="fnDoCopyWord();
      <script language="Javascript">
      function fnDoCopyWord(){
      textRange=document.body.createTextRange();
      textRange.moveToElementText(listTable);
      textRange.execCommand("Copy");
      window.open("c:\WordOutput.doc","printing");
      }
      </script>


      Any help would be appreciated. In either recommending programs to use XEP? or ideas for code.  This wall is especially hard on my forehead..

      Anne Goguen



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    • Max Dunn
      Is this a job for XSLT/FOI share your interest in a high quality print output format coming out of Java. I was just at the JavaOne conference, including the
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 8, 2001
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        Is this a job for XSLT/FO
        I share your interest in a high quality print output format coming out of Java. 
         
        I was just at the JavaOne conference, including the session on the Java Print Service, and while this represents a very positive step forward, it seems there is still some ways to go with the quality of PostScript that is currently output from Java.  One quote from the session: "it's PostScript, but it's not very good PostScript".
         
        The major strides in PostScript improvement seem to have come between JDK 1.2 and 1.3, though 1.4 offers PostScript output in Windows in addition to what was already available for Linux and Solaris, and the new API.
         
        I spoke to the 2D team, and though they have 8 brilliant, dedicated  engineers working on Java 2D, the PostScript output piece and the issues around improving the PostScript output is only a small percentage of the work they are doing.  I would think it would really benefit the capabilities of Java if they were able to allocate more resources towards the PostScript output piece of Java 2D.  Perhaps there is somewhere at Sun that would be appropriate to send feedback encouraging them to pursue this with a greater priority?
         
        I should add that Java 2D on the screen is absolutely amazing, it has really become robust.  One application in particular was very impressive: ILOG's JView, see http://www.ilog.com/ .  This will export to SVG.
         
        One long term fantasy that was brought up at JavaOne was an SVG printer driver.  Such a thing could actually happen; the obstacles seem mainly political rather than technical.  There are features of SVG not present in PostScript, so a widely adopted SVG printer driver would probably be a great long term solution.
         
        Max
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: LEvensen@... [mailto:LEvensen@...]
        Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 3:56 PM
        To: XSL-FO@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [XSL-FO] Is this a job for XSLT/FO

        Anne, you could transform your XML to PDF, using XSL-FO (RenderX or other package) and at that point, use the AcrobatReader ActiveX plug-in to print (to the client's default printer) but then they' d have to have loaded AcrobatReader on their system. 
         However, how much 'manipulation' is being done on the XML before it gets printed? If the client has unlimited freedom to edit that, your stylesheet (XSL-FO) that would be used to transform your XML->PDF may not be too happy anymore.
         
        By the way the JavaPrintService API from Sun looks very interesting and promising (to me).  I would be very happy at the prospect of not dealing with Adobe in the near future..
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Anne Goguen [mailto:anne.goguen@...]
        Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 3:26 PM
        To: 'XSL-FO@egroups.com'
        Subject: [XSL-FO] Is this a job for XSLT/FO


        Hello everyone. I am just getting started in the wild and wacky world of XML etc...

        Here is my dilemma.

        ad-hoc reporting

        I have a dynamic report that is querying data from oracle and is displaying it on an XML based web page. There are some basic javascripts in the code that allow the user to sort the data after it is displayed.

        PROBLEM

        How can I get it to print. Here is one solution that I have tried and it works.  This copies the data on the screen

        and allows you to paste it into either work or excel upon which you can then further manipulate it or print it.  This
        solution works good but the boss wants it all in one button and not using any other client side programs.

        <input type='button' value='Send To Word'

        onClick="fnDoCopyWord();
        <script language="Javascript">
        function fnDoCopyWord(){
        textRange=document.body.createTextRange();
        textRange.moveToElementText(listTable);
        textRange.execCommand("Copy");
        window.open("c:\WordOutput.doc","printing");
        }
        </script>


        Any help would be appreciated. In either recommending programs to use XEP? or ideas for code.  This wall is especially hard on my forehead..

        Anne Goguen



        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        XSL-FO-unsubscribe@egroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        XSL-FO-unsubscribe@egroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • LEvensen@iKnowMed.com
        Max, I think that the Community section of Sun s site is a way to encourage Sun to put more resources toward developing PostScript; I really hope that they
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 11, 2001
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          Is this a job for XSLT/FO
          Max,
            I think that the 'Community' section of Sun's site is a way to encourage Sun to put more resources toward developing PostScript; I really hope that they will, as Adobe seems to be recalcitrant at best and not interested in server-side development of anything; when I  called ASN (Adobe Support Network) to inquire about the PDFLibrary it was clear to me they don't have much interest in supporting that unless you want to pay a lot of money to be a 'partner'..
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Max Dunn [mailto:maxdunn@...]
          Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:41 PM
          To: XSL-FO@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [XSL-FO] Is this a job for XSLT/FO

          I share your interest in a high quality print output format coming out of Java. 
           
          I was just at the JavaOne conference, including the session on the Java Print Service, and while this represents a very positive step forward, it seems there is still some ways to go with the quality of PostScript that is currently output from Java.  One quote from the session: "it's PostScript, but it's not very good PostScript".
           
          The major strides in PostScript improvement seem to have come between JDK 1.2 and 1.3, though 1.4 offers PostScript output in Windows in addition to what was already available for Linux and Solaris, and the new API.
           
          I spoke to the 2D team, and though they have 8 brilliant, dedicated  engineers working on Java 2D, the PostScript output piece and the issues around improving the PostScript output is only a small percentage of the work they are doing.  I would think it would really benefit the capabilities of Java if they were able to allocate more resources towards the PostScript output piece of Java 2D.  Perhaps there is somewhere at Sun that would be appropriate to send feedback encouraging them to pursue this with a greater priority?
           
          I should add that Java 2D on the screen is absolutely amazing, it has really become robust.  One application in particular was very impressive: ILOG's JView, see http://www.ilog.com/ .  This will export to SVG.
           
          One long term fantasy that was brought up at JavaOne was an SVG printer driver.  Such a thing could actually happen; the obstacles seem mainly political rather than technical.  There are features of SVG not present in PostScript, so a widely adopted SVG printer driver would probably be a great long term solution.
           
          Max
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: LEvensen@... [mailto:LEvensen@...]
          Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 3:56 PM
          To: XSL-FO@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [XSL-FO] Is this a job for XSLT/FO

          Anne, you could transform your XML to PDF, using XSL-FO (RenderX or other package) and at that point, use the AcrobatReader ActiveX plug-in to print (to the client's default printer) but then they' d have to have loaded AcrobatReader on their system. 
           However, how much 'manipulation' is being done on the XML before it gets printed? If the client has unlimited freedom to edit that, your stylesheet (XSL-FO) that would be used to transform your XML->PDF may not be too happy anymore.
           
          By the way the JavaPrintService API from Sun looks very interesting and promising (to me).  I would be very happy at the prospect of not dealing with Adobe in the near future..
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Anne Goguen [mailto:anne.goguen@...]
          Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 3:26 PM
          To: 'XSL-FO@egroups.com'
          Subject: [XSL-FO] Is this a job for XSLT/FO


          Hello everyone. I am just getting started in the wild and wacky world of XML etc...

          Here is my dilemma.

          ad-hoc reporting

          I have a dynamic report that is querying data from oracle and is displaying it on an XML based web page. There are some basic javascripts in the code that allow the user to sort the data after it is displayed.

          PROBLEM

          How can I get it to print. Here is one solution that I have tried and it works.  This copies the data on the screen

          and allows you to paste it into either work or excel upon which you can then further manipulate it or print it.  This
          solution works good but the boss wants it all in one button and not using any other client side programs.

          <input type='button' value='Send To Word'

          onClick="fnDoCopyWord();
          <script language="Javascript">
          function fnDoCopyWord(){
          textRange=document.body.createTextRange();
          textRange.moveToElementText(listTable);
          textRange.execCommand("Copy");
          window.open("c:\WordOutput.doc","printing");
          }
          </script>


          Any help would be appreciated. In either recommending programs to use XEP? or ideas for code.  This wall is especially hard on my forehead..

          Anne Goguen



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          XSL-FO-unsubscribe@egroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          XSL-FO-unsubscribe@egroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          XSL-FO-unsubscribe@egroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Max Dunn
          Is this a job for XSLT/FOWell, I don t know that Adobe is any worse than other companies in terms of wanting to make money for what they do, and they do
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 11, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Is this a job for XSLT/FO
            Well, I don't know that Adobe is any worse than other companies in terms of wanting to make money for what they do, and they do provide great products within the scope of what they aim for.  They do at least publicly provide the Postscript and PDF specifications that make things like FOP possible.  And they have done an AWESOME job with SVG. 
             
            But I agree they miss the boat completely on the need for server side functionality.
             
            I am constantly amazed at how client-focused Adobe has been. 
             
            Currently I'm working with InDesign from programming/script.  It's wonderfully scriptable, all of the objects can be accessed, and many great things can be done programatically.  But so much is on the terms of the GUI, it is like run this menu command, work with this "selected" object, or whatever.  I think they would have been far better off to have a core server-side app and call it from a GUI rather than have any server-side functionality as an afterthought, and then often having to go through the GUI paradigm.
             
            But the *real* confusion to me: OK, they have 2 people on the XSL working group.  *Why* is there not a single Adobe FO-related product out there???
             
            Why is their FO support the opposite of the SVG support?  Note that by the time the SVG spec is a recommendation they will already have a near-compliant SVG browser well distributed, so the "no final spec yet" argument is selective at best.  I would think of all companies Adobe could do the best FO product.
             
            Jon Bosak once said that if XML were implemented properly it would put some companies out of business.  Sometimes I wonder if that remark didn't scare some people.
             
             
            Max
            -----Original Message-----
            From: LEvensen@... [mailto:LEvensen@...]
            Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:51 AM
            To: XSL-FO@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [XSL-FO] Is this a job for XSLT/FO

            Max,
              I think that the 'Community' section of Sun's site is a way to encourage Sun to put more resources toward developing PostScript; I really hope that they will, as Adobe seems to be recalcitrant at best and not interested in server-side development of anything; when I  called ASN (Adobe Support Network) to inquire about the PDFLibrary it was clear to me they don't have much interest in supporting that unless you want to pay a lot of money to be a 'partner'..
          • letsgo@mac.com
            ... This is a little off topic but I had to respond to the comment. I m not sure why you think that InDesign scripting controls the GUI. It doesn t. It is not
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 12, 2001
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              At 10:46 AM 6/11/01, Max Dunn wrote:
              >Currently I'm working with InDesign from programming/script. It's
              >wonderfully scriptable, all of the objects can be accessed, and many
              >great things can be done programatically. But so much is on the
              >terms of the GUI, it is like run this menu command, work with this
              >"selected" object, or whatever. I think they would have been far
              >better off to have a core server-side app and call it from a GUI
              >rather than have any server-side functionality as an afterthought,
              >and then often having to go through the GUI paradigm.

              This is a little off topic but I had to respond to the comment.

              I'm not sure why you think that InDesign scripting controls the GUI.
              It doesn't. It is not possible to select menus from a script. And
              while InDesign provides a way to get/set/control what is selected,
              your script can just as easily iterate over objects without them
              being selected.

              Head over the InDesign scripting forum if you'd like to discuss this further.
              <http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?13@@.eea52bc>
            • Max Dunn
              Yes, off of the FO topic, but my point was not that the scripting controls the GUI (it merely feels like it does), but that this is a fundamentally GUI-based
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 12, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes, off of the FO topic, but my point was not that the scripting controls
                the GUI (it merely feels like it does), but that this is a fundamentally
                GUI-based app that is difficult to use for server-side apps because it for
                example must open up a client-side instance of the application in order to
                run a scripted process. What I would like to see from Adobe is a
                composition engine that can run without opening up a window. Something like
                FOP or Xyvision. They have the composition angle down cold; InDesign is
                awesome in terms of its composition, but it is a client-side app. I will
                continue the InDesign-specific discussion in the forum as you suggest.

                On the FO topic are two questions:
                1. Why Adobe hasn't put effort towards an FO implementation, assuming they
                haven't. Does anyone know anything about this?

                2. How difficult/possible would it be to write a program that would
                translate an FO file into InDesign instructions/tagged text (or output to
                another non-native FO composition engine)?

                Max

                -----Original Message-----
                From: letsgo@... [mailto:letsgo@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 3:20 PM
                To: XSL-FO@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [XSL-FO] Is this a job for XSLT/FO


                At 10:46 AM 6/11/01, Max Dunn wrote:
                >Currently I'm working with InDesign from programming/script. It's
                >wonderfully scriptable, all of the objects can be accessed, and many
                >great things can be done programatically. But so much is on the
                >terms of the GUI, it is like run this menu command, work with this
                >"selected" object, or whatever. I think they would have been far
                >better off to have a core server-side app and call it from a GUI
                >rather than have any server-side functionality as an afterthought,
                >and then often having to go through the GUI paradigm.

                This is a little off topic but I had to respond to the comment.

                I'm not sure why you think that InDesign scripting controls the GUI.
                It doesn't. It is not possible to select menus from a script. And
                while InDesign provides a way to get/set/control what is selected,
                your script can just as easily iterate over objects without them
                being selected.

                Head over the InDesign scripting forum if you'd like to discuss this
                further.
                <http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?13@@.eea52bc>

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