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RE: [XSL-FO] Single XSL for both pdf and html

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  • Victor Mote
    ... If you are using XSL-FO to get to PDF, I don t think so. XSL-FO and HTML have very different tags. The beauty of XML with stylesheets is that one code base
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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      Chitra Muthukrishnan wrote:

      > Is it possible to write single xsl which produces output in both pdf and
      > html.

      If you are using XSL-FO to get to PDF, I don't think so. XSL-FO and HTML
      have very different tags. The beauty of XML with stylesheets is that one
      code base (your semantic XML file) can be used to generate multiple outputs.
      The tradeoff is that you do need to have multiple stylesheets to accomplish
      this.

      Victor Mote
    • Rob Stote
      Sry dude, there is no real way to do that. the reality is that HTML, requires one type of style sheet where as output produced via XSL-FO can be derived from
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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        Sry dude, there is no real way to do that.
        the reality is that HTML, requires one "type" of style sheet where as output
        produced via XSL-FO can be derived from the same XSL-FO style sheet.
        XSL-FO is a way of defining paginated display. HTML is not paginated.

        you have to create 2 style-sheet to obtain these two outputs.
        If you wanted TIFF, and PDF, you could use 1 style sheet.

        Rob

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Victor Mote [mailto:vic@...]
        Sent: March 6, 2003 3:12 PM
        To: XSL-FO@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [XSL-FO] Single XSL for both pdf and html


        Chitra Muthukrishnan wrote:

        > Is it possible to write single xsl which produces output in both pdf and
        > html.

        If you are using XSL-FO to get to PDF, I don't think so. XSL-FO and HTML
        have very different tags. The beauty of XML with stylesheets is that one
        code base (your semantic XML file) can be used to generate multiple outputs.
        The tradeoff is that you do need to have multiple stylesheets to accomplish
        this.

        Victor Mote


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      • Jim White
        ... I do that by running an XSL to generate (X)HTML and then run a XHTML-to-FO XSL. The xhtml2fo.xsl that I use is a heavily customized version of the sample
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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          Chitra Muthukrishnan wrote:
          > Is it possible to write single xsl which produces output in both pdf and
          > html.

          I do that by running an XSL to generate (X)HTML and then run a
          XHTML-to-FO XSL. The xhtml2fo.xsl that I use is a heavily customized
          version of the sample from Antenna House:

          http://www.antennahouse.com/XSLsample/XSLsample.htm

          There is also this:

          http://html2fo.sourceforge.net/

          What I would really like to have is a full HTML 4 + CSS2 to XSL-FO
          conversion. Then there would only need to be a few extensions to handle
          FO-specific stuff that isn't already in CSS.

          Jim
        • Ian Tindale
          ... An analogy of what you re asking would perhaps be to ask: I have two white doors that need painting, one needs to be green and the other red. Is it
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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            On Thursday 06 March 2003 12:04 pm, Chitra Muthukrishnan wrote:
            > Hi All,
            >
            > Is it possible to write single xsl which produces output in both pdf and
            > html.

            An analogy of what you're asking would perhaps be to ask:

            "I have two white doors that need painting, one needs to be green and the
            other red. Is it possible to buy one single can of paint for me to use?"

            --
            Ian Tindale
          • Klaas_Bals@inventivedesigners.com
            ... I m sorry. I don t agree that this is a trivial question. I would be possible to generate XHTML from an XSL-FO document. If they can create text and rtf,
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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              >> Hi All,
              >>
              >> Is it possible to write single xsl which produces output in both pdf and
              >> html.
              >
              >An analogy of what you're asking would perhaps be to ask:
              >
              >"I have two white doors that need painting, one needs to be green and the
              >other red. Is it possible to buy one single can of paint for me to use?"

              I'm sorry. I don't agree that this is a trivial question. I would be
              possible to generate XHTML from an XSL-FO document. If they can create text
              and rtf, XHTML is also possible!


              -----
              Klaas Bals - Scriptura Development Manager

              Scriptura - a WYSIWYG XSL-FO editor: www.inventivedesigners.com/scriptura

              Inventive Designers
              Direct Phone: +32 - 3 - 8210183
              Office Phone: +32 - 3 - 8210170
              Office Fax: +32 - 3 - 8210171
              Email: Klaas_Bals at inventivedesigners dot com
            • Rob Stote
              I agree Klass: this is a valid question, anybody that would answer this way is not being very polite, and trust me I am being polite now Rob ... From:
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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                I agree Klass:
                this is a valid question, anybody that would answer this way is not being
                very polite, and trust me I am being polite now

                Rob

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Klaas_Bals@...
                [mailto:Klaas_Bals@...]
                Sent: March 6, 2003 5:27 PM
                To: XSL-FO@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [XSL-FO] Single XSL for both pdf and html



                >> Hi All,
                >>
                >> Is it possible to write single xsl which produces output in both pdf and
                >> html.
                >
                >An analogy of what you're asking would perhaps be to ask:
                >
                >"I have two white doors that need painting, one needs to be green and the
                >other red. Is it possible to buy one single can of paint for me to use?"

                I'm sorry. I don't agree that this is a trivial question. I would be
                possible to generate XHTML from an XSL-FO document. If they can create text
                and rtf, XHTML is also possible!


                -----
                Klaas Bals - Scriptura Development Manager

                Scriptura - a WYSIWYG XSL-FO editor: www.inventivedesigners.com/scriptura

                Inventive Designers
                Direct Phone: +32 - 3 - 8210183
                Office Phone: +32 - 3 - 8210170
                Office Fax: +32 - 3 - 8210171
                Email: Klaas_Bals at inventivedesigners dot com



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                XSL-FO-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • G. Ken Holman
                ... In my stylesheet library for OASIS UBL documents I go the other way: I generate XSL-FO as my master and then use the fo2html.xsl stylesheet from RenderX
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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                  At 2003-03-06 11:26 -0800, Jim White wrote:
                  >Chitra Muthukrishnan wrote:
                  > > Is it possible to write single xsl which produces output in both pdf and
                  > > html.
                  >
                  >I do that by running an XSL to generate (X)HTML and then run a
                  >XHTML-to-FO XSL. The xhtml2fo.xsl that I use is a heavily customized
                  >version of the sample from Antenna House:

                  In my stylesheet library for OASIS UBL documents I go the other way: I
                  generate XSL-FO as my "master" and then use the fo2html.xsl stylesheet from
                  RenderX to make the HTML rendition of the XSL-FO instance generated from
                  the UBL XML.

                  The running stylesheets are available to be downloaded under the modified
                  BSD license from the free resource area of our web site.

                  I hope this helps.

                  .................. Ken


                  --
                  Upcoming hands-on in-depth XSLT/XPath and/or XSL-FO
                  North America: June 16-20, 2003

                  G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@...
                  Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/f/
                  Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0 +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995)
                  ISBN 0-13-065196-6 Definitive XSLT and XPath
                  ISBN 0-13-140374-5 Definitive XSL-FO
                  ISBN 1-894049-08-X Practical Transformation Using XSLT and XPath
                  ISBN 1-894049-10-1 Practical Formatting Using XSL-FO
                  Male Breast Cancer Awareness http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/f/bc
                • Kurt Cagle
                  Actually I agree with the last -- there s no reason why you couldn t write an XSLT that generates to XSL-FO or XHTML depending upon a modal switch, something
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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                    Actually I agree with the last -- there's no reason why you couldn't write an
                    XSLT that generates to XSL-FO or XHTML depending upon a modal switch,
                    something along the lines of:

                    <xsl:param name="target" select="'XSL-FO'"/>

                    <xsl:template match="/">
                    <xsl:choose>
                    <xsl:when test="target='XSL-FO' ">
                    <xsl:apply-templates select="*" mode="xslfo"/>
                    </xsl:when>
                    <xsl:otherwise>
                    <xsl:apply-templates select="*" mode="xhtml"/>
                    </xsl:otherwise>
                    </xsl:choose>
                    </xsl:template>

                    This makes more sense in XSLT2, where you might be generating a result
                    document as a secondary stream, but there are ample precedents for doing
                    this.

                    -- Kurt

                    On Thursday 06 March 2003 01:26 pm, Klaas_Bals@... wrote:
                    > >> Hi All,
                    > >>
                    > >> Is it possible to write single xsl which produces output in both pdf
                    > >> and html.
                    > >
                    > >An analogy of what you're asking would perhaps be to ask:
                    > >
                    > >"I have two white doors that need painting, one needs to be green and the
                    > >other red. Is it possible to buy one single can of paint for me to use?"
                    >
                    > I'm sorry. I don't agree that this is a trivial question. I would be
                    > possible to generate XHTML from an XSL-FO document. If they can create
                    > text and rtf, XHTML is also possible!
                  • Ian Tindale
                    ... That s a erroneous generalisation - I was being polite. I m not now, though. Now I am. Now I m not. Now I ve lost count. The thing is, if your output
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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                      On Thursday 06 March 2003 10:12 pm, Rob Stote wrote:
                      > I agree Klass:
                      > this is a valid question, anybody that would answer this way is not being
                      > very polite, and trust me I am being polite now

                      That's a erroneous generalisation - I was being polite. I'm not now, though.
                      Now I am. Now I'm not. Now I've lost count.

                      The thing is, if your output across XHTML and PDF were extremely similar in
                      layout, then academically, you could narrow down the branching point to more
                      or less within the XSLT. In most cases, though, you'd be advised to take
                      advantage of designing for the media, even down to simple but major things
                      such as colour choice, page size assumption, and media content. Typically, in
                      a scenario such as, for example, Cocoon, you'd find that the branch is quite
                      distinct and once content negotiation has had its say, the XSLT chosen is
                      quite discrete from any of the other media choices available.

                      To return to the analogy, if one were to concoct a tin of paint that is both
                      green and red, one would inevitably find that it is not really either green
                      or red enough to be either - more of a compromise from the beginning.
                      --
                      Ian Tindale
                    • Christian Duschl
                      I m not sure if I understand your question (I m sure that its possible to generate html and pdf or anything else with the same stylesheet .. does it make
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 6, 2003
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                        I'm not sure if I understand your question (I'm sure that its possible to generate html and pdf or anything else with the same stylesheet .. does it make sense ?), but if you just want to prduce html from fo- codebase, you might have a look at www.x-form.de.
                        This product generates html,rtf,pdf... from fo (based on fop with addititonal renderers).
                        You've to speak german to read the pages (english version will soon be available).
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Ian Tindale
                        To: XSL-FO@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 1:07 AM
                        Subject: Re: [XSL-FO] Single XSL for both pdf and html


                        On Thursday 06 March 2003 10:12 pm, Rob Stote wrote:
                        > I agree Klass:
                        > this is a valid question, anybody that would answer this way is not being
                        > very polite, and trust me I am being polite now

                        That's a erroneous generalisation - I was being polite. I'm not now, though.
                        Now I am. Now I'm not. Now I've lost count.

                        The thing is, if your output across XHTML and PDF were extremely similar in
                        layout, then academically, you could narrow down the branching point to more
                        or less within the XSLT. In most cases, though, you'd be advised to take
                        advantage of designing for the media, even down to simple but major things
                        such as colour choice, page size assumption, and media content. Typically, in
                        a scenario such as, for example, Cocoon, you'd find that the branch is quite
                        distinct and once content negotiation has had its say, the XSLT chosen is
                        quite discrete from any of the other media choices available.

                        To return to the analogy, if one were to concoct a tin of paint that is both
                        green and red, one would inevitably find that it is not really either green
                        or red enough to be either - more of a compromise from the beginning.
                        --
                        Ian Tindale

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                      • Ian Tindale
                        ... No it wasn t so much that, it was a query by the original poster that asked if it were possible to write a single XSL stylesheet which produces output in
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 7, 2003
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                          On Friday 07 March 2003 7:42 am, Christian Duschl wrote:
                          > I'm not sure if I understand your question (I'm sure that its possible to
                          > generate html and pdf or anything else with the same stylesheet .. does it
                          > make sense ?),

                          No it wasn't so much that, it was a query by the original poster that asked if
                          it were possible to write a single XSL stylesheet which produces output in
                          both PDF and HTML.

                          I would say no, as a matter of style. Of course, you could have a single XSL
                          that outputs both a PDF and HTML output simultaneously - just bolt the guts
                          of a PDF XSLT onto the guts of an HTML transformation and whenever the
                          transformation is run, you get two discrete output products. However, that's
                          basically the same as running first one (a PDF transformation), then the
                          other (the HTML tranformation) as a simple chained operation of two discrete
                          transformations.

                          If what you want is a single transformation that simply piles output into a
                          PDF and an HTML document pretty much in the same sweep, you'll lose the
                          flexibility of the individual media, and neither the PDF nor the HTML will
                          have been done justice. If it transpires that each request for PDF is always
                          accompanied by an identical HTML request, I suppose you'd want a single XSLT
                          to do the same job. I'd still, however, push towards triggering the two
                          processes as separate transformations, just finding a way of triggering a
                          pair of requests in one action - and this might as well be outside the XSLT
                          domain.

                          --
                          Ian Tindale
                        • Rob Stote
                          agreed: In the end you really need 2 style-sheets. And really should use 2 style-sheets. Rob ps Ian sry, for the generalization, the moment I hit send I was
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 7, 2003
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                            agreed:

                            In the end you really need 2 style-sheets. And really should use 2
                            style-sheets.

                            Rob

                            ps Ian sry, for the generalization, the moment I hit send I was like s%*^t
                            not smart

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Ian Tindale [mailto:ian_tindale@...]
                            Sent: March 7, 2003 4:47 AM
                            To: XSL-FO@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [XSL-FO] Single XSL for both pdf and html


                            On Friday 07 March 2003 7:42 am, Christian Duschl wrote:
                            > I'm not sure if I understand your question (I'm sure that its possible to
                            > generate html and pdf or anything else with the same stylesheet .. does
                            it
                            > make sense ?),

                            No it wasn't so much that, it was a query by the original poster that asked
                            if
                            it were possible to write a single XSL stylesheet which produces output in
                            both PDF and HTML.

                            I would say no, as a matter of style. Of course, you could have a single XSL

                            that outputs both a PDF and HTML output simultaneously - just bolt the guts
                            of a PDF XSLT onto the guts of an HTML transformation and whenever the
                            transformation is run, you get two discrete output products. However, that's

                            basically the same as running first one (a PDF transformation), then the
                            other (the HTML tranformation) as a simple chained operation of two
                            discrete
                            transformations.

                            If what you want is a single transformation that simply piles output into a
                            PDF and an HTML document pretty much in the same sweep, you'll lose the
                            flexibility of the individual media, and neither the PDF nor the HTML will
                            have been done justice. If it transpires that each request for PDF is always

                            accompanied by an identical HTML request, I suppose you'd want a single XSLT

                            to do the same job. I'd still, however, push towards triggering the two
                            processes as separate transformations, just finding a way of triggering a
                            pair of requests in one action - and this might as well be outside the XSLT
                            domain.

                            --
                            Ian Tindale

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