Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London

Expand Messages
  • Shahid Husain
    An Iman from a mosque in London talking about the killing of the soldier in Woolwich http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00WRRD7Yud4 From:
    Message 1 of 19 , May 24, 2013
    • 0 Attachment

      An Iman from a mosque in London talking about the killing of the soldier in Woolwich

       

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00WRRD7Yud4

       

       

      From: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of syed-mohsin naquvi
      Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 12:17 PM
      To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London

       

       

      Dear Farzana Hasan,

      I agree with you that this was a most gruesome and inhuman crime in recent memory anywhere in the world.

      The perpetrators deserve the maximum punishment allowed by the law of the land. And those are our limits, civilized democratic systems can go only that far in punishing the perpetrators of the most heinous of the crimes.

      That is also the difference between civilized systems of law-and-order and the anarchic mindset that brings people to committing such crimes.

      But your contention that it was a crime inspired by Sharia is misleading, misplaced and actually puzzling for many average Muslims.

      Sharia never allows the killing of an innocent person without cause. That was the tribal custom in the Arab society before Islam, the period known as the Jahiliyya. Qur'an introduced the concept of QISAS to replace that barbaric and unjust system.

      Two, Sharia never allows the dismemberment of a dead body, not even that of a dead enemy soldier at the battlefield.

      I am with you all the way in expressing my views against all crime of any kind but I have to disagree on the way you have tried to confuse the issue of this barbaric murder with Islamic customs and laws.

      P.S. I am not advocating Sharia law to be implemented in Canada or any other democratic society anywhere in the world.

      Thank you.

      Sincerely,

      Syed-Mohsin Naquvi
      ======================

       

       


      From: Farzana Hassan <farzanahassan@...>
      To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:22 AM
      Subject: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London

       

       

      Gruesome Sharia murder in London
      http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/gruesome-sharia-murder-in-london

      Farzana Hassan


      The latest Islamist murder in London was a public execution, and its details too gruesome to dwell on. Prime Minister David Cameron has rightly called it a terrorist incident. The Islam of these ferocious young jihadists turned into a grisly reality show. The butchers lingered, determined to get their 15 minutes of media infamy.

      Inspired by the most hateful of contemporary ideologies, the two suspects shouted “Allaho Akbar as they slaughtered the unfortunate young victim, a British soldier, near his army barracks.

      The suspects also brought their depraved misogyny to this horrific scene: Slaughtering him was apparently their sacred duty, but it would be haram (forbidden) for any woman to touch him. The two men hacked him to death with cleavers. Such is sharia in its most hateful form.

      The 2003-2005 controversy here in Ontario was all about accepting certain sharia provisions as a parallel legal system. But people who consider sharia defeated simply because it has no legal recognition are completely wrong. It already exists in the West, whether it is recognized legally or not.

      Sharia is in fact rampant. In effect, it thrives informally among conservative Muslims in Western society and need not be formally inducted here as a legal code. It is being practiced in honour killings and in the patriarchy often seen in Muslim communities. It is active in the many radical mosques and websites where deranged killers like the two British suspects probably honed their Islam. Enraged jihadi men spurn all legal and moral codes because they feel they are answerable only to the concept of Allah which their radical imams have sold them.

      Whether Western nations give sharia official status as a legal code barely matters. According to Islamists, sharia is valid regardless of whether it is recognized as the law of the land. Therefore, the pervasive misogyny and segregation of women, the pursuit of jihad, the insistence on prayer halls in public spaces are all part of sharia in action.

      So is this London murder. Indoctrination into sharia was evident as the two suspects shouted: “This is God’s will!” With blood in their eyes, such perpetrators of jihadi violence seek only to obliterate anything they think contradicts Islamic precepts.

      Moderate Muslims will, of course, insist that sharia involves only mundane daily duties of a Muslim, like eating halal foods and washing properly. Yet violent jihad is also part of sharia. Beheadings in the name of Islam too have historical precedent.

      Polite explanations for Islamist excesses have run their course. Western societies must do more to combat the cruel manifestations of sharia and jihad. The West’s pluralism is its Achilles’ heel. Its inclusiveness and multiculturalism are weak in comparison to the deadly absolutism of the Islamists.

      Some say a Muslim reformation is possible. If that is true, the first thing that must be discarded is the outlandish “narrative” that sees Muslims as victims of the West. The Boston bombers accepted it, and so apparently did the London butchers; one of them said to onlookers: “In our land our women have to see the same.”

      Yes, innocent people are mistakenly killed in Muslim countries by Western forces who are fighting those who seek to oppress them. Using this as a basis for attacks on Western targets is irrational and pernicious. Most Muslims could never be terrorists, but even the moderates who accept this narrative of Muslim victimization are part of the problem, however peaceful they claim to be.

       


      No virus found in this message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6351 - Release Date: 05/23/13

      No virus found in this message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6353 - Release Date: 05/24/13

    • Tariq Farooqi
      ASAK.  Unfortunately the difference is that while one murder may be racially motivated, the other was done in the name of Islam and Muslim Brotherhood. 
      Message 2 of 19 , May 24, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        ASAK.  Unfortunately the difference is that while one murder may be racially motivated, the other was done in the name of Islam and Muslim Brotherhood.  Quranic Ayaat (Ayaah) were quoted by the person committing the grisly beheading!  I know he was a recent convert and had the misplaced zeal of the convert, however, instead of being motivated to work for the good of the Ummah, he was taught hatred and revenge.  Instead of condoning these misdeeds or trying to explain them in the context of international victim hood, we need to examine the priorities of the community. 

        In many parts of the world Muslims are dying of hunger and malnutrition, Muslim kids have no access to schools, and Muslim girls are forced to marry older men for money.  I do not see many articles addressing these urgent issues facing the Ummah.  But we see Muslim victim-hood in every action of the West.  How does it solve our myriad problems and how does it help the Ummah in moving forward?

        Best Regards,

        Tariq

        --- On Fri, 5/24/13, S.M. Ghazanfar <ghazi@...> wrote:

        From: S.M. Ghazanfar <ghazi@...>
        Subject: Re: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London
        To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: "Abrar Hasan" <hasan_abrar@...>
        Date: Friday, May 24, 2013, 2:42 PM

        Perhaps for some context/background to the gruesome murder in London, there was this murder also (see below)--hardly in the news; certainly, no 'terrorism' linked to this.....
        Obviously, two wrongs don't make a right....none in his/her right mind can condone either, yet there is the bigger picture. 
        Relating to the London murder, Glenn Greenwald has an excellent article on how some such incidents become 'terrorism' and others don't.  Forwarded to this forum--see
        http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/05/23-5?print
        Published on Thursday, May 23, 2013 by TheGuardian
        Best regards.
        --------------------------

        Birmingham murder may have been racially motivated, say police

        Detectives appeal for witnesses after Mohammed Saleem, 75, was stabbed to death as he returned home from local mosque

        Birmingham
murder – family of Mohammed Saleem appeal for witnesses
        Shazia Khan, left, comforts Nazia Maqsood as they appeal for information over the death of their father, Mohammed Saleem. Photograph: PA

        A 75-year-old man stabbed to death yards from his home may have been targeted in a racially motivated attack, according to police.

        Mohammed Saleem, who used a walking stick, was stabbed three times in the back as he returned home from prayers at his local mosque in Small Heath, Birmingham, on Monday night.

        The blows were struck with such violence they penetrated to the front of his body.

        The father of seven also had no defensive wounds in what has been described as a swift, vicious and cowardly attack by the man leading the murder investigation, Detective Superintendent Mark Payne of West Midlands police.

        Officers want to trace a white man, aged 25-32, of medium height and build, spotted on CCTV footage running near the scene of the attack around the time it happened, just before 10.30pm.

        Police also want to trace a seven-seat people carrier captured on CCTV, driving near the mosque with the two male occupants, both white and in their 30s, who are considered "significant witnesses".

        In an emotional family appeal on Thursday, two of Saleem's daughters, Shazia Khan, 45, and Nazia Maqsood, 44, called for the attackers to hand themselves in. They tearfully described their father as a "widely respected member of the community" and "much-loved".

        Payne said the possibility it was a racially motivated attack was "a significant line of inquiry" and a large number of detectives were working on the case. "To the attacker I say we will find you and we will bring you to justice," he added.

        Khan, who lives in London, said she believed it was "a premeditated brutal attack, pre-planned, intended to kill".

        She said: "I cannot see him having any enemies being so full of hate to do this to him. He was an old man – that's what he was. He had no other agenda in his life, it's unacceptable and we just cannot believe an attack like this would happen to him. We just cannot understand it.

        "We have to walk past where he was killed and we can visualise it – we have to live with that for the rest of our lives."

        Describing her father, Khan said he had worked with youths at the mosque and "was a really good role model and had a great sense of humour, very tongue in cheek". She said people from all walks of life had been paying their condolences.

        Khan also had a message for her father's killers: "We don't know who carried out the attack – all we can say is you will be caught and you will be punished and justice will be done, legally.

        "I hope they come forward. I hope that anyone who knows this man [seen in Wyndcliffe Road] or the driver in the car, there may be mobile phone videos made of the killing – we don't know. If there's any information people are sharing, every little bit of information is vital that will help catch the killer.

        "It is unusual for someone of that description to be in that area. It may not be linked, we don't know, but every avenue has to be covered. We have to all pull together and get justice for my father and anybody else, because this could happen again."


        On 5/24/2013 12:07 PM, Abrar Hasan wrote:
         
        Brilliant article, Farzana. Congratulations. However, just condemning the gruesomeness of the murders is not enough, one has to stamp out the root causes of why this happens. You have really advanced the argument further in the following quote (your last para):
         
        "Yes, innocent people are mistakenly killed in Muslim countries by Western forces who are fighting those who seek to oppress them. Using this as a basis for attacks on Western targets is irrational and pernicious. Most Muslims could never be terrorists, but even the moderates who accept this narrative of Muslim victimization are part of the problem, however peaceful they claim to be."
         
        With your immense insight into these matters, perhaps you would wish to go one step further and advise on how 'the problem" with "even the moderates" could be addressed by the peaceful Western nations. Should "the moderates" in these nations be simply asked not to express peacefully their narrative of victimization, and leave the matters there, that is, at simple gagging? Or should these "moderates" be officially declared as terrorists and be kicked out of jobs and denied social security? Or perhaps you advice would be to incarcerate these "moderates" at a suitable camp built to purpose; or, should they be sent back to the original homelands of their forefathers (in chains or otherwise)? [I should have said "foremothers" as well, not to be tainted by sharia sexism].
         
        I am sure the common man (woman) in the peaceful Western nations, not to mention the enlightened governments of these lands, would be all ears to hear your well considered and enlightened advice to address the pernicious presence of "the moderates" among us.  
         
        Abrar 
         
        From: Farzana Hassan <farzanahassan@...>
        To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 10:22:40 AM
        Subject: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London
         
        Gruesome Sharia murder in London
        http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/gruesome-sharia-murder-in-london

        Farzana Hassan

        The latest Islamist murder in London was a public execution, and its details too gruesome to dwell on. Prime Minister David Cameron has rightly called it a terrorist incident. The Islam of these ferocious young jihadists turned into a grisly reality show. The butchers lingered, determined to get their 15 minutes of media infamy.
        Inspired by the most hateful of contemporary ideologies, the two suspects shouted “Allaho Akbar as they slaughtered the unfortunate young victim, a British soldier, near his army barracks.
        The suspects also brought their depraved misogyny to this horrific scene: Slaughtering him was apparently their sacred duty, but it would be haram (forbidden) for any woman to touch him. The two men hacked him to death with cleavers. Such is sharia in its most hateful form.
        The 2003-2005 controversy here in Ontario was all about accepting certain sharia provisions as a parallel legal system. But people who consider sharia defeated simply because it has no legal recognition are completely wrong. It already exists in the West, whether it is recognized legally or not.
        Sharia is in fact rampant. In effect, it thrives informally among conservative Muslims in Western society and need not be formally inducted here as a legal code. It is being practiced in honour killings and in the patriarchy often seen in Muslim communities. It is active in the many radical mosques and websites where deranged killers like the two British suspects probably honed their Islam. Enraged jihadi men spurn all legal and moral codes because they feel they are answerable only to the concept of Allah which their radical imams have sold them.
        Whether Western nations give sharia official status as a legal code barely matters. According to Islamists, sharia is valid regardless of whether it is recognized as the law of the land. Therefore, the pervasive misogyny and segregation of women, the pursuit of jihad, the insistence on prayer halls in public spaces are all part of sharia in action.
        So is this London murder. Indoctrination into sharia was evident as the two suspects shouted: “This is God’s will!” With blood in their eyes, such perpetrators of jihadi violence seek only to obliterate anything they think contradicts Islamic precepts.
        Moderate Muslims will, of course, insist that sharia involves only mundane daily duties of a Muslim, like eating halal foods and washing properly. Yet violent jihad is also part of sharia. Beheadings in the name of Islam too have historical precedent.
        Polite explanations for Islamist excesses have run their course. Western societies must do more to combat the cruel manifestations of sharia and jihad. The West’s pluralism is its Achilles’ heel. Its inclusiveness and multiculturalism are weak in comparison to the deadly absolutism of the Islamists.
        Some say a Muslim reformation is possible. If that is true, the first thing that must be discarded is the outlandish “narrative” that sees Muslims as victims of the West. The Boston bombers accepted it, and so apparently did the London butchers; one of them said to onlookers: “In our land our women have to see the same.”
        Yes, innocent people are mistakenly killed in Muslim countries by Western forces who are fighting those who seek to oppress them. Using this as a basis for attacks on Western targets is irrational and pernicious. Most Muslims could never be terrorists, but even the moderates who accept this narrative of Muslim victimization are part of the problem, however peaceful they claim to be.

        -- 
        S.M. Ghazanfar, Ph.D., Professor of Economics [1968-2002; Emeritus, 2002; Dept.Chair, '79-81, '93-01;
            Director, Int'l Studies Program, '89-93; Adj.Prof (2003-08)]
        University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho 83843 (USA) 
        Homepage: www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~ghazi 
        Aldous Huxley: “By selective information, or lack of information, we create a new paradigm.” 
        Anonymous: "Identify the real rulers of a country?  Ask:  who is it that one cannot criticize?" 
        Anais Nin: "We don't see things as they are; we see things as we are"
      • Jalal Zuberi
        Farzana, your comment would make a reader think that u wish the organized religion make an exit from our lives to solve present day problems. But as they say,
        Message 3 of 19 , May 25, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Farzana, your comment would make a reader think that u wish the organized religion make an exit from our lives to solve present day problems.

          But as they say, we should be careful what we wish for, as without organized religion, providing a semblance of hope and purpose for billions around the globe, this world would be in a bigger chaos.

          The solution therefore has to be in a better understanding of our faith system and highlight its spiritual aspects for personal cleansing and growth over its political aspirations to control masses.

          Sent from my iPhone

          On May 25, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Farzana Hassan <farzanahassan@...> wrote:

           

          Hi Jassi

          Thanks for your comments. I agree with you, but I don't think organized religion will be exiting from our lives any time soon...

          cheers,
          Farzana


          On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Jaswinder Sandhu <jassi@...> wrote:
           

          Farzana ji, I share your feelings about this hate crime issue of jihadi idiots. However, I think that all religions create situations which can be exploited to violent tactics when needed by their akas. Take for instance the situation of Hindutva (Hindu jihadis) or Khalistan (Murjeevre or Sikh jihadis), they are doing the same whenever their leaders want them to do. The only cure for this disease of being misled is kicking out the religions from our lives or at least cutting short the religions from the organised "criminal" gangs in to private singular ones. This will result in short supply of funds and madrassa places for these thugs (the akas). However, if we still want to rot under the concept of god, allah, vaheguru, rub, parmatama etc. and be misled by these sharp tongue religious bullies, who can stop us? Then be prepared to bear consequences of more acts like this.

          Jassi
          (Jaswinder Sandhu)

           

          To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
          From: farzanahassan@...
          Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 07:22:40 -0700

          Subject: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London

           
          Gruesome Sharia murder in London
          http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/gruesome-sharia-murder-in-london

          Farzana Hassan

          The latest Islamist murder in London was a public execution, and its details too gruesome to dwell on. Prime Minister David Cameron has rightly called it a terrorist incident. The Islam of these ferocious young jihadists turned into a grisly reality show. The butchers lingered, determined to get their 15 minutes of media infamy.
          Inspired by the most hateful of contemporary ideologies, the two suspects shouted “Allaho Akbar as they slaughtered the unfortunate young victim, a British soldier, near his army barracks.
          The suspects also brought their depraved misogyny to this horrific scene: Slaughtering him was apparently their sacred duty, but it would be haram (forbidden) for any woman to touch him. The two men hacked him to death with cleavers. Such is sharia in its most hateful form.
          The 2003-2005 controversy here in Ontario was all about accepting certain sharia provisions as a parallel legal system. But people who consider sharia defeated simply because it has no legal recognition are completely wrong. It already exists in the West, whether it is recognized legally or not.
          Sharia is in fact rampant. In effect, it thrives informally among conservative Muslims in Western society and need not be formally inducted here as a legal code. It is being practiced in honour killings and in the patriarchy often seen in Muslim communities. It is active in the many radical mosques and websites where deranged killers like the two British suspects probably honed their Islam. Enraged jihadi men spurn all legal and moral codes because they feel they are answerable only to the concept of Allah which their radical imams have sold them.
          Whether Western nations give sharia official status as a legal code barely matters. According to Islamists, sharia is valid regardless of whether it is recognized as the law of the land. Therefore, the pervasive misogyny and segregation of women, the pursuit of jihad, the insistence on prayer halls in public spaces are all part of sharia in action.
          So is this London murder. Indoctrination into sharia was evident as the two suspects shouted: “This is God’s will!” With blood in their eyes, such perpetrators of jihadi violence seek only to obliterate anything they think contradicts Islamic precepts.
          Moderate Muslims will, of course, insist that sharia involves only mundane daily duties of a Muslim, like eating halal foods and washing properly. Yet violent jihad is also part of sharia. Beheadings in the name of Islam too have historical precedent.
          Polite explanations for Islamist excesses have run their course. Western societies must do more to combat the cruel manifestations of sharia and jihad. The West’s pluralism is its Achilles’ heel. Its inclusiveness and multiculturalism are weak in comparison to the deadly absolutism of the Islamists.
          Some say a Muslim reformation is possible. If that is true, the first thing that must be discarded is the outlandish “narrative” that sees Muslims as victims of the West. The Boston bombers accepted it, and so apparently did the London butchers; one of them said to onlookers: “In our land our women have to see the same.”
          Yes, innocent people are mistakenly killed in Muslim countries by Western forces who are fighting those who seek to oppress them. Using this as a basis for attacks on Western targets is irrational and pernicious. Most Muslims could never be terrorists, but even the moderates who accept this narrative of Muslim victimization are part of the problem, however peaceful they claim to be.



        • Farzana Hassan
          Jalal If it were possible to organize religious people to act morally and ethically, then I would have no qualms about organized religion, however, that
          Message 4 of 19 , May 25, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Jalal

            If it were possible to organize religious people to act morally and ethically, then I would have no qualms about "organized" religion, however, that seems such a far cry to me. What is moral and ethical is often debatable. Take jihad, which according to Muslims is perhaps the most righteous act, and yet its modern manifestations have resulted in untold misery for so many.

            Farzana.


            On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Jalal Zuberi <jalalzuberi@...> wrote:
             

            Farzana, your comment would make a reader think that u wish the organized religion make an exit from our lives to solve present day problems.

            But as they say, we should be careful what we wish for, as without organized religion, providing a semblance of hope and purpose for billions around the globe, this world would be in a bigger chaos.

            The solution therefore has to be in a better understanding of our faith system and highlight its spiritual aspects for personal cleansing and growth over its political aspirations to control masses.

            Sent from my iPhone

            On May 25, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Farzana Hassan <farzanahassan@...> wrote:

             

            Hi Jassi

            Thanks for your comments. I agree with you, but I don't think organized religion will be exiting from our lives any time soon...

            cheers,
            Farzana


            On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Jaswinder Sandhu <jassi@...> wrote:
             

            Farzana ji, I share your feelings about this hate crime issue of jihadi idiots. However, I think that all religions create situations which can be exploited to violent tactics when needed by their akas. Take for instance the situation of Hindutva (Hindu jihadis) or Khalistan (Murjeevre or Sikh jihadis), they are doing the same whenever their leaders want them to do. The only cure for this disease of being misled is kicking out the religions from our lives or at least cutting short the religions from the organised "criminal" gangs in to private singular ones. This will result in short supply of funds and madrassa places for these thugs (the akas). However, if we still want to rot under the concept of god, allah, vaheguru, rub, parmatama etc. and be misled by these sharp tongue religious bullies, who can stop us? Then be prepared to bear consequences of more acts like this.

            Jassi
            (Jaswinder Sandhu)

             

            To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
            From: farzanahassan@...
            Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 07:22:40 -0700

            Subject: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London

             
            Gruesome Sharia murder in London
            http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/gruesome-sharia-murder-in-london

            Farzana Hassan

            The latest Islamist murder in London was a public execution, and its details too gruesome to dwell on. Prime Minister David Cameron has rightly called it a terrorist incident. The Islam of these ferocious young jihadists turned into a grisly reality show. The butchers lingered, determined to get their 15 minutes of media infamy.
            Inspired by the most hateful of contemporary ideologies, the two suspects shouted “Allaho Akbar as they slaughtered the unfortunate young victim, a British soldier, near his army barracks.
            The suspects also brought their depraved misogyny to this horrific scene: Slaughtering him was apparently their sacred duty, but it would be haram (forbidden) for any woman to touch him. The two men hacked him to death with cleavers. Such is sharia in its most hateful form.
            The 2003-2005 controversy here in Ontario was all about accepting certain sharia provisions as a parallel legal system. But people who consider sharia defeated simply because it has no legal recognition are completely wrong. It already exists in the West, whether it is recognized legally or not.
            Sharia is in fact rampant. In effect, it thrives informally among conservative Muslims in Western society and need not be formally inducted here as a legal code. It is being practiced in honour killings and in the patriarchy often seen in Muslim communities. It is active in the many radical mosques and websites where deranged killers like the two British suspects probably honed their Islam. Enraged jihadi men spurn all legal and moral codes because they feel they are answerable only to the concept of Allah which their radical imams have sold them.
            Whether Western nations give sharia official status as a legal code barely matters. According to Islamists, sharia is valid regardless of whether it is recognized as the law of the land. Therefore, the pervasive misogyny and segregation of women, the pursuit of jihad, the insistence on prayer halls in public spaces are all part of sharia in action.
            So is this London murder. Indoctrination into sharia was evident as the two suspects shouted: “This is God’s will!” With blood in their eyes, such perpetrators of jihadi violence seek only to obliterate anything they think contradicts Islamic precepts.
            Moderate Muslims will, of course, insist that sharia involves only mundane daily duties of a Muslim, like eating halal foods and washing properly. Yet violent jihad is also part of sharia. Beheadings in the name of Islam too have historical precedent.
            Polite explanations for Islamist excesses have run their course. Western societies must do more to combat the cruel manifestations of sharia and jihad. The West’s pluralism is its Achilles’ heel. Its inclusiveness and multiculturalism are weak in comparison to the deadly absolutism of the Islamists.
            Some say a Muslim reformation is possible. If that is true, the first thing that must be discarded is the outlandish “narrative” that sees Muslims as victims of the West. The Boston bombers accepted it, and so apparently did the London butchers; one of them said to onlookers: “In our land our women have to see the same.”
            Yes, innocent people are mistakenly killed in Muslim countries by Western forces who are fighting those who seek to oppress them. Using this as a basis for attacks on Western targets is irrational and pernicious. Most Muslims could never be terrorists, but even the moderates who accept this narrative of Muslim victimization are part of the problem, however peaceful they claim to be.




          • Jaswinder Sandhu
            Farzana ji, I d like to add to your statement that this untold misery is much more for the innocent Muslims than others. Jassi (Jaswinder Sandhu) To:
            Message 5 of 19 , May 25, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Farzana ji, I'd like to add to your statement that this "untold misery" is much more for the innocent Muslims than others.

              Jassi
              (Jaswinder Sandhu)

               

              To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
              From: farzanahassan@...
              Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 23:34:30 +0500
              Subject: Re: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London

               
              Jalal

              If it were possible to organize religious people to act morally and ethically, then I would have no qualms about "organized" religion, however, that seems such a far cry to me. What is moral and ethical is often debatable. Take jihad, which according to Muslims is perhaps the most righteous act, and yet its modern manifestations have resulted in untold misery for so many.

              Farzana.


              On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Jalal Zuberi <jalalzuberi@...> wrote:
               


              Farzana, your comment would make a reader think that u wish the organized religion make an exit from our lives to solve present day problems.

              But as they say, we should be careful what we wish for, as without organized religion, providing a semblance of hope and purpose for billions around the globe, this world would be in a bigger chaos.

              The solution therefore has to be in a better understanding of our faith system and highlight its spiritual aspects for personal cleansing and growth over its political aspirations to control masses.

              Sent from my iPhone

              On May 25, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Farzana Hassan <farzanahassan@...> wrote:

               

              Hi Jassi

              Thanks for your comments. I agree with you, but I don't think organized religion will be exiting from our lives any time soon...

              cheers,
              Farzana


              On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Jaswinder Sandhu <jassi@...> wrote:
               

              Farzana ji, I share your feelings about this hate crime issue of jihadi idiots. However, I think that all religions create situations which can be exploited to violent tactics when needed by their akas. Take for instance the situation of Hindutva (Hindu jihadis) or Khalistan (Murjeevre or Sikh jihadis), they are doing the same whenever their leaders want them to do. The only cure for this disease of being misled is kicking out the religions from our lives or at least cutting short the religions from the organised "criminal" gangs in to private singular ones. This will result in short supply of funds and madrassa places for these thugs (the akas). However, if we still want to rot under the concept of god, allah, vaheguru, rub, parmatama etc. and be misled by these sharp tongue religious bullies, who can stop us? Then be prepared to bear consequences of more acts like this.

              Jassi
              (Jaswinder Sandhu)

               

              To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
              From: farzanahassan@...
              Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 07:22:40 -0700

              Subject: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London

               
              Gruesome Sharia murder in London
              http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/gruesome-sharia-murder-in-london

              Farzana Hassan

              The latest Islamist murder in London was a public execution, and its details too gruesome to dwell on. Prime Minister David Cameron has rightly called it a terrorist incident. The Islam of these ferocious young jihadists turned into a grisly reality show. The butchers lingered, determined to get their 15 minutes of media infamy.
              Inspired by the most hateful of contemporary ideologies, the two suspects shouted “Allaho Akbar as they slaughtered the unfortunate young victim, a British soldier, near his army barracks.
              The suspects also brought their depraved misogyny to this horrific scene: Slaughtering him was apparently their sacred duty, but it would be haram (forbidden) for any woman to touch him. The two men hacked him to death with cleavers. Such is sharia in its most hateful form.
              The 2003-2005 controversy here in Ontario was all about accepting certain sharia provisions as a parallel legal system. But people who consider sharia defeated simply because it has no legal recognition are completely wrong. It already exists in the West, whether it is recognized legally or not.
              Sharia is in fact rampant. In effect, it thrives informally among conservative Muslims in Western society and need not be formally inducted here as a legal code. It is being practiced in honour killings and in the patriarchy often seen in Muslim communities. It is active in the many radical mosques and websites where deranged killers like the two British suspects probably honed their Islam. Enraged jihadi men spurn all legal and moral codes because they feel they are answerable only to the concept of Allah which their radical imams have sold them.
              Whether Western nations give sharia official status as a legal code barely matters. According to Islamists, sharia is valid regardless of whether it is recognized as the law of the land. Therefore, the pervasive misogyny and segregation of women, the pursuit of jihad, the insistence on prayer halls in public spaces are all part of sharia in action.
              So is this London murder. Indoctrination into sharia was evident as the two suspects shouted: “This is God’s will!” With blood in their eyes, such perpetrators of jihadi violence seek only to obliterate anything they think contradicts Islamic precepts.
              Moderate Muslims will, of course, insist that sharia involves only mundane daily duties of a Muslim, like eating halal foods and washing properly. Yet violent jihad is also part of sharia. Beheadings in the name of Islam too have historical precedent.
              Polite explanations for Islamist excesses have run their course. Western societies must do more to combat the cruel manifestations of sharia and jihad. The West’s pluralism is its Achilles’ heel. Its inclusiveness and multiculturalism are weak in comparison to the deadly absolutism of the Islamists.
              Some say a Muslim reformation is possible. If that is true, the first thing that must be discarded is the outlandish “narrative” that sees Muslims as victims of the West. The Boston bombers accepted it, and so apparently did the London butchers; one of them said to onlookers: “In our land our women have to see the same.”
              Yes, innocent people are mistakenly killed in Muslim countries by Western forces who are fighting those who seek to oppress them. Using this as a basis for attacks on Western targets is irrational and pernicious. Most Muslims could never be terrorists, but even the moderates who accept this narrative of Muslim victimization are part of the problem, however peaceful they claim to be.








            • Osman Sher
              Farzana Hassan said: but I don t think organized religion will be exiting from our lives any time soon... One has to have trust on the alacrity of  human
              Message 6 of 19 , May 25, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Farzana Hassan said: "but I don't think organized religion will be exiting from our lives any time soon..."

                One has to have trust on the alacrity of  human mind. It is set in an accelerated motion in a natural way. Speaking roughly, what its ingenuity had invented during the past two thousand years, it has done more within the last one hundred years. And how much it achieved then, it has achieved within a decade.

                 

                In the same way, when the human mind had thought about, or invented, religion in ancient times, and remained glued to it, now it is shaking off its belief on the supernatural, very rapidly.

                 

                Who knows, if not in our life time, but ‘soon’ organized religion may actually exit from our lives.

                 

                SOS 



                --- On Sun, 5/26/13, Jaswinder Sandhu <jassi@...> wrote:

                From: Jaswinder Sandhu <jassi@...>
                Subject: RE: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London
                To: "Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com" <writers_forum@yahoogroups.com>
                Received: Sunday, May 26, 2013, 3:24 AM

                 

                Farzana ji, I'd like to add to your statement that this "untold misery" is much more for the innocent Muslims than others.

                Jassi
                (Jaswinder Sandhu)

                 

                To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                From: farzanahassan@...
                Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 23:34:30 +0500
                Subject: Re: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London

                 
                Jalal

                If it were possible to organize religious people to act morally and ethically, then I would have no qualms about "organized" religion, however, that seems such a far cry to me. What is moral and ethical is often debatable. Take jihad, which according to Muslims is perhaps the most righteous act, and yet its modern manifestations have resulted in untold misery for so many.

                Farzana.


                On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Jalal Zuberi <jalalzuberi@...> wrote:
                 


                Farzana, your comment would make a reader think that u wish the organized religion make an exit from our lives to solve present day problems.

                But as they say, we should be careful what we wish for, as without organized religion, providing a semblance of hope and purpose for billions around the globe, this world would be in a bigger chaos.

                The solution therefore has to be in a better understanding of our faith system and highlight its spiritual aspects for personal cleansing and growth over its political aspirations to control masses.

                Sent from my iPhone

                On May 25, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Farzana Hassan <farzanahassan@...> wrote:

                 

                Hi Jassi

                Thanks for your comments. I agree with you, but I don't think organized religion will be exiting from our lives any time soon...

                cheers,
                Farzana


                On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Jaswinder Sandhu <jassi@...> wrote:
                 

                Farzana ji, I share your feelings about this hate crime issue of jihadi idiots. However, I think that all religions create situations which can be exploited to violent tactics when needed by their akas. Take for instance the situation of Hindutva (Hindu jihadis) or Khalistan (Murjeevre or Sikh jihadis), they are doing the same whenever their leaders want them to do. The only cure for this disease of being misled is kicking out the religions from our lives or at least cutting short the religions from the organised "criminal" gangs in to private singular ones. This will result in short supply of funds and madrassa places for these thugs (the akas). However, if we still want to rot under the concept of god, allah, vaheguru, rub, parmatama etc. and be misled by these sharp tongue religious bullies, who can stop us? Then be prepared to bear consequences of more acts like this.

                Jassi
                (Jaswinder Sandhu)

                 

                To: Writers_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                From: farzanahassan@...
                Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 07:22:40 -0700

                Subject: [Writers Forum] My column: Gruesome Sharia Murder in London

                 
                Gruesome Sharia murder in London
                http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/gruesome-sharia-murder-in-london

                Farzana Hassan

                The latest Islamist murder in London was a public execution, and its details too gruesome to dwell on. Prime Minister David Cameron has rightly called it a terrorist incident. The Islam of these ferocious young jihadists turned into a grisly reality show. The butchers lingered, determined to get their 15 minutes of media infamy.
                Inspired by the most hateful of contemporary ideologies, the two suspects shouted “Allaho Akbar as they slaughtered the unfortunate young victim, a British soldier, near his army barracks.
                The suspects also brought their depraved misogyny to this horrific scene: Slaughtering him was apparently their sacred duty, but it would be haram (forbidden) for any woman to touch him. The two men hacked him to death with cleavers. Such is sharia in its most hateful form.
                The 2003-2005 controversy here in Ontario was all about accepting certain sharia provisions as a parallel legal system. But people who consider sharia defeated simply because it has no legal recognition are completely wrong. It already exists in the West, whether it is recognized legally or not.
                Sharia is in fact rampant. In effect, it thrives informally among conservative Muslims in Western society and need not be formally inducted here as a legal code. It is being practiced in honour killings and in the patriarchy often seen in Muslim communities. It is active in the many radical mosques and websites where deranged killers like the two British suspects probably honed their Islam. Enraged jihadi men spurn all legal and moral codes because they feel they are answerable only to the concept of Allah which their radical imams have sold them.
                Whether Western nations give sharia official status as a legal code barely matters. According to Islamists, sharia is valid regardless of whether it is recognized as the law of the land. Therefore, the pervasive misogyny and segregation of women, the pursuit of jihad, the insistence on prayer halls in public spaces are all part of sharia in action.
                So is this London murder. Indoctrination into sharia was evident as the two suspects shouted: “This is God’s will!” With blood in their eyes, such perpetrators of jihadi violence seek only to obliterate anything they think contradicts Islamic precepts.
                Moderate Muslims will, of course, insist that sharia involves only mundane daily duties of a Muslim, like eating halal foods and washing properly. Yet violent jihad is also part of sharia. Beheadings in the name of Islam too have historical precedent.
                Polite explanations for Islamist excesses have run their course. Western societies must do more to combat the cruel manifestations of sharia and jihad. The West’s pluralism is its Achilles’ heel. Its inclusiveness and multiculturalism are weak in comparison to the deadly absolutism of the Islamists.
                Some say a Muslim reformation is possible. If that is true, the first thing that must be discarded is the outlandish “narrative” that sees Muslims as victims of the West. The Boston bombers accepted it, and so apparently did the London butchers; one of them said to onlookers: “In our land our women have to see the same.”
                Yes, innocent people are mistakenly killed in Muslim countries by Western forces who are fighting those who seek to oppress them. Using this as a basis for attacks on Western targets is irrational and pernicious. Most Muslims could never be terrorists, but even the moderates who accept this narrative of Muslim victimization are part of the problem, however peaceful they claim to be.








              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.