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Re: [WorldofGlorantha] Ducks o' Death or Ducks and the Death Rune

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  • Richard Hayes
    Is the Death rune part of the Duck creation myth in some way?   I thought the Durulz ability to resist Delecti came from the fact that they do for Delecti s
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 5, 2011
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      Is the Death rune part of the Duck creation myth in some way?
       
      I thought the Durulz ability to resist Delecti came from the fact that they do for Delecti's undead what mistletoe did for Baldur. Their nature as "neither flesh nor fowl" meant that Delecti's spells and zombies don't see them coming in the same way that they do for other races. Their special status is derived from an oversight by Delecti which has allowed them to survive better than they would otherwise (and for some reason it was too difficult (or too much trouble) for Delecti to fix this.
       
      Secondly Duck are physically better suited to getting around in the Marsh . They are better at swimming (and probably at clod-hopping too). It is also probably easier for them to live off the land than it is for humans.
       
      Thirdly I expect a minority of Ducks are drawn to Death or other war-like cults as a result of the proximity of the Marsh. But then don't the Lismelder also have a slightly above average population of Humakti for this reason?
       
      I am assuming that the suggestion that Ducks find it harder to get on in any cult other than certain Death cults (as suggested in the old RQ II, where there was a general rule about CHA being reduced by -10 for characters in an odd cult for their race), is now discredited. It doesn't make a lot of sense -- most Duck are not warriors, and why should Duck be discriminated against in congregations made up of other Duck?
       
      Presumably Duck do suffer some discrimination if they step outside their own tribe, but in Heortling lands isn't this true of humans who live outside their own tribe as well? However it is probably less severe for humans of another tribe-- they don't look as different, they are less vulnerable to physicial bullying, and individuals can be naturalised by marriage. (Heortling marriage customs are flexible, but that flexible?)
       To me, Duck are not just short, feathered Heortlings. Even in Sartar they should have myths about what it is to be Duck, and a religion that reflects this, as well as a religion which reflects the fact that they share a lifestyle and culture which is similar to that of the human tribes of Sartar.
       
      In terms of the wider Duck religion, how reliable is the MRQ book about Duck? This text suggested that Duck religion was a mixture of species-specific cults and Duck interpretations of Heortling religions (including something like Humakt, something like Orlanth Adventuturous and the Storm Bill (?) something like Urox), which made up a 'Duck pantheon' of eight cults -- although presumably Durulz who become devotees do so in only one cult.
       
      Has becoming a Sartarite tribe made Duck religion (and particularly the Duck versions of Orlanth, Humakt, Urox, etc.) a bit more like that of their human neighbours than it was written up as being in the Second Age MRQ Duck book? It seems a logical development, at least to me.
       
      Are there still significant populations of Duck outside Sartar, e.g. in southern Maniria and the islands off the coast? (If there are, surely they are even less like feathered Heortlings? Are Duck islanders animists and/or Helerings like their human neighbours). Also are all the Duck in Pavis and the Zola Fel Valley (probably not many) settlers from Sartar?
       
      Richard Hayes
      From: Benedict Adamson <yahoo@...>
      To: WorldofGlorantha@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, 4 September 2011, 14:22
      Subject: Re: [WorldofGlorantha] Ducks o' Death or Ducks and the Death Rune

      On 03/09/11 12:49, donald@... wrote:
      ...
      > A purely mundane reason is that the ducks of Sartar share the Upland Marsh with Delecti
      > and all the undead creatures he controls. Humakt provides lots of magic for dealing with the
      > undead so a higher than normal proportion of ducks follow him.
      ...

      I believe (it is in KoDP), it is the other way around. The Ducks alone
      have the power to withstand Delecti. Which might be because of a
      pre-existing Death affinity.


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    • hcarteau@free.fr
      Thanks for the information. I may buy Sartar Kingdom of Heroes, even though I don t play/run HeroQuest. Is it rules-heavy, or mostly background? /// Mostly
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 5, 2011
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        Thanks for the information. I may buy Sartar Kingdom of Heroes, even though I don't play/run HeroQuest. Is it rules-heavy, or mostly background?
        /// Mostly background. Anyway, if you enjoy Glorantha, you'll enjoy the book. Good reading !

        Ducks, baby, ducks!
        /// Takes all kinds.

        PS- Chop, kwaaakkka, kuh-thunk, crunch, kaaaawk!(the sound of Duck swamp rangers of Odukla and HueyMakt chopping zombies into fish-bait)
        /// Perhaps you mistook this for the noise of the little bastard running away like crazy, crashing through the reeds, with zombies snatching their rear feathers ?
      • Stewart
        ... That rather depends upon what folks consider the duck creation myth(s) to be. The earliest examples were delightfully obscure, one-sentence/short-paragraph
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 5, 2011
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          Richard:
          > Is the Death rune part of the Duck creation myth in some way?

          That rather depends upon what folks consider the duck creation myth(s) to be. The earliest examples were delightfully obscure, one-sentence/short-paragraph jobs. ("It is unknown whether they were originally human and became feathered and web-footed, or originally ducks cursed with flightlessness and intelligence.")

          And while I think the creative exercise of debating this is great fun, attempts to fix it for posterity have proven anything but. Pick an idea you like and you scotch two other equally fun (sub judice) but contradictory ones; or, still worse, create some middle-of-the-road mélange in an attempt to satisfy various lobby groups and/or--worst of all--"be neither too serious nor too silly".

          On which note...

          > In terms of the wider Duck religion, how reliable is the MRQ book
          > about Duck?

          The basic mythology is largely drawn from Stephen Martin's article 'Duck Mythology & Notes', in RuneQuest Adventures #2 (Fall, 1993), pp. 21-26, with a few emendations and elaborations.

          My favourite example of duck religion is that practised by Joseph Greenface - the oldest example of such in Gloranthan lore, which accompanies Greg's only duck 'hero' of note.

          Joseph is a 'shaman of great powers' [animism] and a 'Priest of the River God' [theism]. And the magical watercourse that flows through the Durulz Valley, that he might be expected to worship/propitiate/squawk at loudly? The Stream [wizardry].

          You can't top that! (And there's not a deathdrake or a heavy-handed Sky/Vrimak-based formulation in sight...)
        • Jeff
          ... No. The ducks are inherently associated with Air, not Death. Some Lunar philosophers believe that Death is inevitably linked to Air, hence the so called
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 5, 2011
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            > Is the Death rune part of the Duck creation myth in some way?

            No. The ducks are inherently associated with Air, not Death. Some Lunar philosophers believe that Death is inevitably linked to Air, hence the so called Duck "connection to Death". The Jonstown LM temple, who likely know far more about this than the Lunars, hold that the Duck success against Delecti comes from three sources:
            1. The Ducks worship Humakt (more than even other Orlanthi tribes) to defend them against the Unliving.
            2. The Ducks are naturally aquatic and can easily hide from the Unliving.
            3. The Ducks are too pathetic to get Delecti's attention.
            > In terms of the wider Duck religion, how reliable is the MRQ book about Duck?

            Not at all reliable.

            Jeff
          • Richard Hayes
            Didn t Tales of the Reaching Moon once feature a vampire duck who needed false teeth ?   Richard Hayes   From: Keith To:
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 5, 2011
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              Didn't Tales of the Reaching Moon once feature a vampire duck who needed 'false teeth'?
               
              Richard Hayes
               

              From: Keith <keith.nellist@...>
              To: WorldofGlorantha@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2011, 6:53
              Subject: [WorldofGlorantha] Re: Ducks o' Death or Ducks and the Death Rune


              Count Duckula is a Vivamort cultist, if that means anything.




              --- In WorldofGlorantha@yahoogroups.com, "armymediccampbell" <ewancummins@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > In RQ2,Ducks are said to have an affinity for cults associated with the death rune. I believe that they are given a CHA penalty for the roll to join other cults, in fact.
              >
              > I am given to understand that several incarnations of Glorantha frequently portray ducks as worshippers of Humakt.
              >
              > What about other gods/cults asscoiated with the death rune?
              > What about Odayla, the hunters' god? He seems like a good fit for the ducks of Sartar and adjacent regions, being of the Storm/Orlanthi pantheon.
              >
              > Does anybody have a theory as to the connection between ducks and the death rune/gods associated with death?
              >




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            • Stewart
              ... Heh. Rick (and/or Sandy, I m not sure) suggested that while ducks may very well have teeth, duck vampires do not have fangs. They re therefore very
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 5, 2011
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                Richard:
                > Didn't Tales of the Reaching Moon once feature a vampire duck who needed 'false teeth'?

                Heh. Rick (and/or Sandy, I'm not sure) suggested that while ducks may very well have teeth, duck vampires do not have fangs. They're therefore very attached to their false ones, bless. (TotRM #19, p. 36.)
              • Mark
                ... According to the old Big Rubble supplement, Duck and Centaur vampires have been reported operating out of Blind King s Hill. Mark Mohrfield
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 5, 2011
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                  --- In WorldofGlorantha@yahoogroups.com, "armymediccampbell" <ewancummins@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In WorldofGlorantha@yahoogroups.com, "Keith" <keith.nellist@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Count Duckula is a Vivamort cultist, if that means anything.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm old enough to get that one, heh.
                  >
                  > :)
                  >
                  >
                  > That cartoon was fun.
                  >
                  >
                  > Vivamort.....hmmm, Duck necromancers and Duck-feratu?
                  >
                  > :)
                  >
                  > Maybe I now have a villain for an upcoming RQ game.
                  >

                  According to the old Big Rubble supplement, Duck and Centaur vampires have been reported operating out of Blind King's Hill.

                  Mark Mohrfield
                • Kenrae
                  ... A pity, I liked that book, specially the Durulz part. Now that I think about it, why should I care? It s My Glorantha anyway :P. Regards, Sergi Díaz
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 6, 2011
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                    > Re: Ducks o' Death or Ducks and the Death Rune
                    > Posted by: "Jeff" richaje@... jeffrichard68
                    >
                    > > In terms of the wider Duck religion, how reliable is the MRQ book about Duck?
                    >
                    > Not at all reliable.

                    A pity, I liked that book, specially the Durulz part.

                    Now that I think about it, why should I care? It's My Glorantha anyway :P.

                    Regards,
                    Sergi Díaz
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