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raise the price of fuel and give the money back

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  • Simon Norton
    In Europe the price is higher but still not high enough, so Lee Schipper s prescription is still valid. I would, however, recommend that in the UK at least the
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 16, 2008
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      In Europe the price is higher but still not high enough, so Lee Schipper's
      prescription is still valid. I would, however, recommend that in the UK at least
      the money should be given back in the form of reduced bus and train fares rather
      than tax cuts. That way people hard hit by any increase could recoup their
      losses by changing modes, possibly also changing their travel patterns to make
      this possible. We still have enough buses and trains in most areas to make this
      possible, but for how much longer ?

      Simon Norton
    • Lee Schipper
      my only comment on Simon s good suggestion is that historically, i.e., since 1950, the ratio of the real price of fuel to the real price of a bus ticket has
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 16, 2008
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        my only comment on Simon's good suggestion is that historically, i.e., since 1950, the ratio of the real price of fuel to the real price of a bus ticket has gone down down down. Counts of passengers in Stockholm show that even in teh short term that ratio has an impact on those who ride the bus one month adn drive another.
         
        I don't think making the bus free helps as making the car user face real parking, congestion, and pollution charges.
         
        Lee Schipper, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley 
        phone +1 510 642 6889m cell +1 202 262 7476
         
        Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Institute, Stanford University
        EMBARQ Associate Emeritus


        From: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Simon Norton
        Sent: Tue 12/16/2008 8:57 AM
        To: newmobilitycafe@yahoogroups.com; worldtransport@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: WorldTransport Forum raise the price of fuel and give the money back

        In Europe the price is higher but still not high enough, so Lee Schipper's
        prescription is still valid. I would, however, recommend that in the UK at least
        the money should be given back in the form of reduced bus and train fares rather
        than tax cuts. That way people hard hit by any increase could recoup their
        losses by changing modes, possibly also changing their travel patterns to make
        this possible. We still have enough buses and trains in most areas to make this
        possible, but for how much longer ?

        Simon Norton

      • 'Ian Perry'
        Hi Simon, Before we can start increasing fuel duty, we need to break the hauliers and farmers and prevent more fuel protests... First, we have to get the
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 25, 2008
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          Hi Simon,

          Before we can start increasing fuel duty, we need to "break" the hauliers and farmers and prevent more fuel protests... 

          First, we have to get the Polish government and and others on board, or introduce charges on lorries coming over from Europe to please our hauliers.


          Then we have to realise that turkeys raised in Norfolk should not be sold in the UK if they are processed in Hungary - likewise with UK milk, bottled in Poland to be returned to the UK to be sold as local produce...


          Cities need in introduce freight consolidation to reduce the number of delivery vehicles - as in Freiburg and apparently Bristol (in a very limited scheme) too.  Once we have the freight lobby under control, then we can start to tackle "domestic" mileage with fuel tax increases.


          We also need to tighten up our parking controls.  I park just outside of Cardiff fr free, making the unreliable 2 an hour (perhaps) slow bus service both more expensive and slower than driving most of the way and walking the remainder of the journey.  I was shocked one day to return to my car at 6pm and see streets where I have to search for a parking space almost empty...  it seems that many people do likewise.  We also have a problem with parking on cycle paths and pavements - and often they are police vehicles - or the officers private vehicles outside their place of work.  Add to that the council only charges £3 a day for parking in central Cardiff... where every space is taken by 8:30am and you see, that much more could be done before we start increasing fuel duty.  Oh, and let those who choose to sleep in the countryside (and live in the city) complain...


          Best regards from this foreign land


          Ian







          To: newmobilitycafe@yahoogroups.com, worldtransport@yahoogroups.com
          From: Simon Norton
          Sent by: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
          Date: 12/17/2008 08:05AM
          Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] raise the price of fuel and give the money back

          In Europe the price is higher but still not high enough, so Lee Schipper's
          prescription is still valid. I would, however, recommend that in the UK at least
          the money should be given back in the form of reduced bus and train fares rather
          than tax cuts. That way people hard hit by any increase could recoup their
          losses by changing modes, possibly also changing their travel patterns to make
          this possible. We still have enough buses and trains in most areas to make this
          possible, but for how much longer ?

          Simon Norton

           

        • Tramsol@aol.com
          One detail which the current retail crisis can prossibly no longer call on is to buy local, as local manufacture of food, goods, and other daily needs has
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 1, 2009
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            One detail which the current retail crisis can prossibly no longer call on is to buy local, as local manufacture of food, goods, and other daily needs has effectively been destroyed by the 'cheap' transport addiction.
             
            I'm old enough to remember Harold Wilson embracing I'm Backing Britain, which included a call to buy locally made things from locally owned businesses, putting money back into local activities and fighting the 7:84 effect (the radical threatre group who took their name from the fact that 7% of the UK population had cornered 84% of the wealth)  Local economies are healthy and relatively safer when adverse changes occur.
             
            I'd suggest that world-wide we encourage all who are retailing anything to show their customers where the products are produced - in full so your prawns harvested on the West Coast of Scotland don't get processed in the Far East amd then returned to Hull for packaging - insist on buying fresh from the West and buying 'local' wherever you can.
             
            Dave H
             
              
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