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Re: [sustran] World's Most Congested Cities - Better, faster, cheaper?

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  • Lee Schipper
    I think metros are great..but these days they cost $400-1000 PER CENTIMETER! at that price, I ll take three. Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 27, 2006
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      I think metros are great..but these days they cost
      $400-1000 PER CENTIMETER!

      at that price, I'll take three.

      Lee Schipper
      Director of Research
      EMBARQ, the WRI Center
      for Sustainable Transport
      10 G St. NE
      Washington DC, 20002
      +1202 729 7735
      FAX +1202 7297775
      >>> eric.britton@... 12/27/06 4:37 AM >>>
      Dear Sudhir and Sujit,

      "High cost underground metros"? Why not? Sounds great to me. Eh?

      But one small step first perhaps before spending all that money and
      waiting all those years before your 'deus ex machina' kicks in and is
      ready to do those good works. We refer to this necessary step in the
      and policy process as . . .


      That's the modest challenge that needs to be put before the responsible
      maker and their advisors. In public and with public answers.

      So if we are able to get our hands on all that money and can start to
      spend it
      tomorrow, how much of the problem can we take care of . . . starting
      now. As
      opposed to waiting the inevitable twenty or whatever years that good
      metro is
      going to take.

      This is the vital question that under the New Mobility Agenda we feel
      needs to
      be asked each time. For starters you have to make that long list of the
      needs, priority objectives and targets, and then as possible put
      quantities to
      them. Then you go to the tools, measures, policies side of the ledger
      and start
      to build your packages of measures with an eye to getting at the
      problems NOW!

      Now the responses that this approach provides are many and, when you get
      right, hugely gratifying and effective. That is if you can bear in mind
      the whole thing is indeed all about.

      Or is that just too simple for all those who are making these decisions,
      with those who are urging them on? And perhaps, do they have something
      else in

      It's my position that if such an exercise is not run with care and
      and the right decisions are made in the full glare of the media and
      before the
      attentive eyes of civil society, then something is rotten in the state
      Denmark (or wherever).

      I think that is along the lines that Sujit is suggesting, but let me
      leave it to
      him and to all of you on this.

      Eric Britton

      -----Original Message-----
      From: sustran-discuss-bounces+eric.britton=ecoplan.org@...
      Behalf Of Sudhir
      Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 3:38 AM
      To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
      Subject: [sustran] Re: [NewMobilityCafe] World's Most Congested Cities

      Dear Sujit,

      On one hand you suggest TDM strategies and on other hand you suggest
      that high
      cost underground metros not solving problem of congestion.

      Metro (Underground or overhead) is a viable public transportation mode
      which has
      the capacity of attracting the private vehicle users.

      It is not only flyovers but also RUB/ROB's constructed contribute to



      -----Original Message-----
      From: sustran-discuss-bounces+eric.britton=ecoplan.org@...
      Behalf Of Sujit Patwardhan
      Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 9:19 AM
      To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
      Cc: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com; Eric.britton@...;
      WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com; Sustran-discuss@...
      Subject: [Sustran] Re: [NewMobilityCafe] World's Most Congested Cities

      25 December 2006

      Haven't read what Eric's written (and I'm sure he wouldn't say that) but
      in my
      humble opinion advocating underground (especially Underground Metros)
      transportation mode as a means of reducing with the traffic congestion
      on the
      roads is like an Ostrich burying its head in the sand.

      Perhaps the same logic was put forward by the pioneers of flyovers
      (plenty of
      them hale and hearty in Asian cities) to overcome the problem of crowded
      streets. What many (not all) advocates of the underground are saying is
      that we
      simply can't do anything about the mess we have created on our streets
      so let's
      not waste time on locating the "source" of the problem (too many auto
      but get on with building the underground tunnels with their promise of
      (overkill levels) capacity, which may de-congest the streets.

      This of course never happens. Just like flyovers (ones meant to relieve
      congestion, not the ones meant to cross railway lines etc) constructed
      at huge
      cost become magnets inviting even more auto vehicles (cars and two
      wheelers) to
      come on the roads, underground metros consume huge finances at the cost
      of other
      needs of the city and fail to attract level of ridership projected in
      concocted project reports.

      But by this time the politicians have pocketed their loot, the
      companies their obscenely high profits and the public left high and dry
      over-crowded streets, crowded flyovers and underutilised underground

      If one is really concerned with sustainable transportation and indeed
      sustainable life on our planet one has to acknowledge that auto vehicles
      long crossed the limit in terms of their ecological footprint. NEW
      capacity modes, NEW cleaner fuels, we can certainly pursue but let's
      not lose
      sight of the REAL problem and see how that can be reduced. Incentives
      for Public
      Transport, Non Motorised Modes (Walking and Cycling) and real
      disincentives for
      auto vehicles through various TDM measures appropriate for each city. I
      know I'm
      not saying anything new but in all the technical discussions of pphpd
      and cost
      per Km etc we sometimes miss the most obvious.
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