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Re: WorldTransport Forum FW: [New post] British High Speed Rail? – Or  a better railway for Britain

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  • Anzir Boodoo
    Dave, ... We also have the Chiltern route for an alternative London-Birmingham. For those outside British railway circles, W12 is the largest British track
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 4, 2011
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      Dave,
      On 3 Oct 2011, at 23:40, Dave Holladay wrote:

      > Keep this up
      >
      > HS2 is dreadful mistake
      >
      > My take - get parallel routes to W12 for 7-day railway, use GC/GW route (designed & built post 1900 so better for speed & clearances) same distance London Birmingham and offers 4 track route with switchable options of start/end stations and main routes.

      We also have the Chiltern route for an alternative London-Birmingham.

      For those outside British railway circles, W12 is the largest British track loading gauge (which I believe is somewhat similar, though narrower, to UIC B. It will allow the necessary clearances for double deck passenger trains.

      7 day railway means not shutting for maintenance at weekends, which is still common in some areas of the UK. Network Rail have been working towards the 7 day railway, but it's a slow process, and many lines still have no Sunday service, or a very limited Sunday service (although this is also often true for buses, which don't have the same constraints!)

      > Plan to close WCML (2 lines at a time) (LNW) to enlarge to W12, and joggle with GC/GW to keep a 7-day railway for fast trains, Eventual detail should deliver bi-level passenger vehicle clearance on both routes for increased capacity, without train lengthening and weight increase impacts (power supply etc).
      >
      > Huge lengths of Midland Main Line & WCML reduced to 2 tracks could be re fitted with 4 (including several parallel tunnel bores that can be enhanced & switched over to develop full W12 routes

      I'm entirely with you there, Dave, but with the following additions:

      • Rebuild stations at Watford Junction and Milton Keynes Central for passing loops on fast lines
      • Concentrate on routes where rail's share of travel is low (eg Birmingham-Manchester is 6% rail, over 90% car, on one of the most congested motorways in the country)
      • Increase the capacity of non-London main routes (the country is too centralised on London - over 70% of rail journeys begin and/or end in London, when other major cities have very underdeveloped suburban/commuter networks)
      • Develop commuter rail and trolleybus/light rail rapid transit (as appropriate) for other major cities.

      --
      Anzir Boodoo, PhD student
      The Institute for Transport Studies, The University of Leeds, LEEDS LS2 9JT
      QUEEN'S ANNIVERSARY PRIZE WINNERS - 'sustained transport excellence' - www.its.leeds.ac.uk/queensprize
    • Richard Layman
      the issue would be to have a national rail plan, one that deals in a graduated manner with the various types and levels of services, with recommendations made
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 4, 2011
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        the issue would be to have a national rail plan, one that deals in a graduated manner with the various types and levels of services, with recommendations made accordingly.  I don't know if the UK has such a plan.  The US certainly doesn't it.  (We don't have a national transportation plan either.)

        But yes, in the US we've jumped on high speed rail without a real plan for improvements in passenger rail transportation generally.  

        That being said, I am generally supportive.  This entry discusses planning national transportation at five different scales: 


        I am not familiar enough with railroad transportation to know about how to structure various levels and types of service, although I have a presentation on metropolitan mass transit planning, which outlines how to think about such a structure-typology plan.


        The State of Virginia has a Dept. of Rail and Public Transportation, and a big priority for them is the improvement of the Amtrak lines between DC and Richmond.  Their concept is that if the lines can be improved so that the trains can run much faster, in effect, the Northeast Corridor service between DC and Boston could instead be conceptualized as running from Richmond, VA to Boston, with the concomitant economic benefits to Richmond, the metropolitan area,  and Virginia's I-95 corridor between DC and Virginia.


        Part of this involves adding a third track, because mostly the tracks are owned by private railroads (this isn't a problem with the Amtrak NE Corridor, as Amtrak owns the tracks).  Some years before, the Amtrak station for Richmond was moved out to a suburban location, although eventually service was restored to the city's wonderful Main St. station.  But the conditions are so dreadful it takes 30 minutes to travel the 8 miles from the suburban station to the city station.

        Richard Layman
        http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com
        DC


        From: Anzir Boodoo <ab@...>
        To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 5:14 AM
        Subject: Re: WorldTransport Forum FW: [New post] British High Speed Rail? – Or a better railway for Britain

        Dave,
        On 3 Oct 2011, at 23:40, Dave Holladay wrote:

        > Keep this up
        >
        > HS2 is dreadful mistake
        >
        > My take - get parallel routes to W12 for 7-day railway, use GC/GW route (designed & built post 1900 so better for speed & clearances) same distance London Birmingham and offers 4 track route with switchable options of start/end stations and main routes.

        We also have the Chiltern route for an alternative London-Birmingham.

        For those outside British railway circles, W12 is the largest British track loading gauge (which I believe is somewhat similar, though narrower, to UIC B. It will allow the necessary clearances for double deck passenger trains.

        7 day railway means not shutting for maintenance at weekends, which is still common in some areas of the UK. Network Rail have been working towards the 7 day railway, but it's a slow process, and many lines still have no Sunday service, or a very limited Sunday service (although this is also often true for buses, which don't have the same constraints!)

        > Plan to close WCML (2 lines at a time) (LNW) to enlarge to W12, and joggle with GC/GW  to keep a 7-day railway for fast trains, Eventual detail should deliver bi-level passenger vehicle clearance on both routes for increased capacity, without train lengthening and weight increase impacts (power supply etc).
        >
        > Huge lengths of Midland Main Line & WCML reduced to 2 tracks could be re fitted with 4 (including several parallel tunnel bores that can be enhanced & switched over to develop full W12 routes

        I'm entirely with you there, Dave, but with the following additions:

        • Rebuild stations at Watford Junction and Milton Keynes Central for passing loops on fast lines
        • Concentrate on routes where rail's share of travel is low (eg Birmingham-Manchester is 6% rail, over 90% car, on one of the most congested motorways in the country)
        • Increase the capacity of non-London main routes (the country is too centralised on London - over 70% of rail journeys begin and/or end in London, when other major cities have very underdeveloped suburban/commuter networks)
        • Develop commuter rail and trolleybus/light rail rapid transit (as appropriate) for other major cities.

        --
        Anzir Boodoo, PhD student
        The Institute for Transport Studies, The University of Leeds, LEEDS LS2 9JT
        QUEEN'S ANNIVERSARY PRIZE WINNERS - 'sustained transport excellence' - www.its.leeds.ac.uk/queensprize





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        QUEEN'S ANNIVERSARY PRIZE WINNERS - 'sustained transport excellence' - www.its.leeds.ac.uk/queensprize





        ------------------------------------

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        Consult at: http://NewMobility.org
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