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transport and climate change

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  • Simon Norton
    I disagree with Lee Schipper, or have I misunderstood the posting ? It is common for many people talking about greenhouse gas reduction to assume that only
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 4, 2009
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      I disagree with Lee Schipper, or have I misunderstood the posting ?

      It is common for many people talking about greenhouse gas reduction to assume
      that only technological measures such as electric cars have any chance of
      success in the transport sector. This has several disadvantages:

      1. It perpetuates the hell that incessant road traffic and aircraft noise have
      imposed on many areas of our cities (and some rural locations too).

      2. It perpetuates the idea that greenhouse gas reduction is expensive and
      unaffordable. If people spend less money on cars then there should be more money
      available to finance the things that make our life worthwhile.

      3. It reduces the amount of reduction that will be politically feasible.

      We therefore need to get our climate change negotiators to recognise that
      replacing cars and planes with more sustainable modes can help reduce emissions,
      save money and improve our quality of life all at once.

      Simon Norton
    • Lee Schipper
      I think you misunderstood. My point is that the carbon negotiators have no authority, political or otherwise, to change transport. That s what s wrong. The
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 4, 2009
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        I think you misunderstood. My point is that the carbon negotiators have no authority, political or otherwise, to change transport. That’s what’s wrong. The transport people who matter are not “delegates” here and don’t sit in the meetings and make policies. That’s too bad. But I’m not sure they should be here. They should be making sensible transport policies as Simon recommends INDEPENDENT of the swirl of hot air and debate that will arise in Copenhagen . We can’t wait for a climate agreement to fix transport, and fixing transport will contribute to lower Co2 emissions without having to wait for the large economies to stop fighting!

         

        Lee Schipper

        Project Scientist, Global Met. Studies, UC Berkeley

        Sen. Res Eng., Precourt Energy Eff Ctr, Stanford U.

         

      • Lee Schipper
        Hope there was a typo below. Hope you meant mode-SHIFT! Another worry I have is that the present framework encourages projects that may show a carbon savings
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 4, 2009
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          Hope there was a typo below. Hope you meant mode-SHIFT!

          Another worry I have is that the present framework encourages projects that may show a carbon savings BUT NOT NECESSARILY a transport improvement.

           


          From: Jay Thakkar [mailto:JThakkar@...]
          Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:52 AM
          To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Eric Britton; S.Norton@...; Lee Schipper
          Subject: RE: WorldTransport Forum transport and climate change

           

          I agree with Lee on this.

           

          Firstly, Carbon negotiators are doing a job that has more to do with creating a carbon market and supporting the mode-shit towards a sustainable development. They are creating a market, where trading is perhaps easily calculable. Transport sector, even though it vastly contributes to emissions, is very disjoint in nature when it comes to evaluation.

           

          Secondly, Transportation is a design flaw, and not an operational mistake. It has to be fixed, regardless of the carbon content in our atmosphere. May it be 450 ppm, 350 ppm or even less? Reforming transformation is necessary for the overall societal development, and emissions (especially CO2) reduction is one amongst the many advantages that this reform would bring.

           

          Thank you.

           

          Best,

          JT.

          --

          Jay Thakkar | Green Commute Coordinator

          Greater Mercer TMA

          Ph: 609.452.1491 | Ext: 237

          Fx: 609.452.0028

          Email: jthakkar@...

           


          From: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com [mailto: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper
          Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 10:41 AM
          To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Eric Britton; S.Norton@...
          Subject: WorldTransport Forum transport and climate change

           

           

          I think you misunderstood. My point is that the carbon negotiators have no authority, political or otherwise, to change transport. That’s what’s wrong. The transport people who matter are not “delegates” here and don’t sit in the meetings and make policies. That’s too bad. But I’m not sure they should be here. They should be making sensible transport policies as Simon recommends INDEPENDENT of the swirl of hot air and debate that will arise in Copenhagen . We can’t wait for a climate agreement to fix transport, and fixing transport will contribute to lower Co2 emissions without having to wait for the large economies to stop fighting!

           

          Lee Schipper

          Project Scientist, Global Met. Studies, UC Berkeley

          Sen. Res Eng., Precourt Energy Eff Ctr, Stanford U.

           



        • Simon Norton
          Lee Schipper, I m still not sure that I understand you, but let me try to restate my point of view more clearly so that you can see whether it accords with
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 4, 2009
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            Lee Schipper, I'm still not sure that I understand you, but let me try to
            restate my point of view more clearly so that you can see whether it accords
            with what you are trying to say.

            Most of us recognise that a car based transport system is utterly dysfunctional,
            and the opportunity to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is therefore a co-benefit
            of what needs to be done anyway.

            However, there are those who believe that private motor transport is essential
            to civilisation. These people, assuming they are not climate change deniers,
            will therefore have their eye on technological means of reducing emissions,
            which are more costly and which will have a more limited scope.

            Transport activists need to lobby climate change negotiators to ensure that they
            recognise that this is not so. Then they will be willing to contemplate a more
            sustainable transport system in addition to other means of reducing emissions,
            and, hopefully, confront the car lobbyists who currently pervade most of our
            governments.

            We may be able to persuade them, further, that a better quality of life is
            possible in a low car society, but for them it will be the better quality of
            life that is the co-benefit of a policy that will, I hope, help to reduce our
            greenhouse gas emissions below the danger level.

            Simon Norton
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