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Re: [WorldCitizen] ... veteran story

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  • John Frazer
    From: Matthew Pflantzbaum 24 Aug 2000 ... Hear, Hear! ... A good generalization. Have you heard this? I believe It s from an Army chaplain, giving an address
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 28, 2000
      From: "Matthew Pflantzbaum 24 Aug 2000

      >"You veterans... have the ability through your experience to help in the
      >transformation of the world...

      Hear, Hear!

      >...the non-Veterans were more responsible for the war than the veterans...

      A good generalization.

      Have you heard this? I believe It's from an Army chaplain, giving an address
      to a class of cadets: (incomplete, from memory)
      It is the soldier, not the journalist, who preserves the right of freedom of
      the press.
      It is the soldier, not the poet, who preserves the right of free speech.
      It is not the protestor, but the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves
      under the flag, and dies for the flag, who preserves the right to burn the
      flag.

      BTW, Carl Sagan wrote in 'Demon Haunted World': I only wish that part of the
      citizenship oath was "I will question my government, and always strive to be
      educated & involved in it". In the Pledge of Alliegance, that the oath
      should be to the Constitution, instead of the flag; as a Judge, soldier, or
      the president.
      Another similar sentiment: My country, right or wrong; When right, to be
      kept right. When wrong, to be put right.

      From Kipling, speaking for Vets:
      "Why else were we spared the horrors of war, than to expose it for you?"
      And:
      "When they ask why we died, tell them 'because our fathers lied'".

      If only wars were really all about preserving freedoms, instead of
      profitability for a few.



      >http://www.spuren.ch/Finding%20Peace.html
      >
      >A very powerful story about a Viet Nam veteran's healing process through
      >meeting Vietnamese monk Thich Nhat Hanh, who will be speaking here in DC in
      >September.
      >
      >My attention was particularly raised by the following passage:
      >One of the first things this monk said was, "You veterans, you are the
      >light at the tip of the candle. You burn hot. You have the ability through
      >your experience to help in the transformation of the world, to transform
      >the violence, to transform the hate, to transform the despair You need to
      >talk." And he said, "You, the non-Veterans, you need to listen because the
      >veterans deserve to be understood. And to understand someone you need to
      >place youself in their skin."
      >
      >All my life when I tried to talk about these things, people always went
      >away. They always said, "Oh, vou're too intense. I can't deal with you.
      >I've got to leave." I've come to understand that what they were really
      >saying is, "In relationshilwith you I am touching parts of myself that I
      >don't want to touch. And I don't want you around to remind me of what I
      >don't want to touch."
      >
      >Thich Nhat Hanh said that the non-Veterans were more responsible for the
      >war than the veterans, and I knew the truth in that. He was articulating
      >things I had known all my life. Since the end of the war more than 50,000
      >Vietnam Vets, young men and women, have killed themselves. In the war,
      >57,693 died in combat. I can be sure that there are one or two veterans in
      >every group of homeless people I see on the street, and many have ended up
      >in prisons. We have been marginalized.
      >

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    • Roan Carratu
      ... in the ... Sure... by killing everyone if the terms you use to think about it remains the terms the cult gang wants you to use. Look at everything as it
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 1, 2000
        > From: "Matthew Pflantzbaum 24 Aug 2000
        >
        > >"You veterans... have the ability through your experience to help
        in the
        > >transformation of the world...
        >
        > Hear, Hear!

        Sure... by killing everyone if the terms you use to think about it
        remains the terms the cult gang wants you to use. Look at everything
        as it is, neither cynically nor optimistically. If what you see is
        terrible beyond imagination, accept it and say it as it is. Only in
        that way can people know the truth, which is not relative, btw. (Try
        telling the hysterical mother of a small child who has been raped and
        murdered by soldiers in Guatemala that truth is relative! Truth is
        what happens, not our attitudes or opinions as to what happened.)

        > >...the non-Veterans were more responsible for the war than the
        veterans...

        > A good generalization.

        War is prepared for, created by, and forced on the world by
        militaries, uniformed or not. The military, globally, is the worse
        curse the planet has ever generated.

        > Have you heard this? I believe It's from an Army chaplain, giving an
        address
        > to a class of cadets: (incomplete, from memory)
        > It is the soldier, not the journalist, who preserves the right of
        freedom of
        > the press.

        Only if you own the presses.

        > It is the soldier, not the poet, who preserves the right of free
        speech.

        Sure, you can say what you want, and if the military doesn't like it,
        they kill you. Some 'right'!

        > It is not the protestor, but the soldier who salutes the flag, who
        serves
        > under the flag, and dies for the flag, who preserves the right to
        burn the
        > flag.

        The absolute worship of symbols is a sign of a fanatical cult, not a
        rational act. There is no real freedom when fanatical cults rule the
        people, no matter what label the cult has; religious, political, or
        social. The military is the oldest 'cult' on the planet, and has
        directly or indirectly been responsible for the death of a quarter of
        all deaths in the last ten thousand years.

        > BTW, Carl Sagan wrote in 'Demon Haunted World': I only wish that
        part of the
        > citizenship oath was "I will question my government, and always
        strive to be
        > educated & involved in it". In the Pledge of Allegiance, that the
        oath
        > should be to the Constitution, instead of the flag; as a Judge,
        soldier, or
        > the president.

        Oaths are meaningless to people who would torture babies in front of
        their parents to make them talk... or spread deadly disease through a
        population, or burn an entire city until the asphalt streets flow like
        burning lava... They use them to make their civilian slaves believe in
        their 'holy' righteousness, but do not pay any attention other than
        that. Militaries are gangs, which 'own' a turf, and enslave the people
        within them for the glory of war. Many generals told me that all that
        counts in life is war, and the glory of destroying their enemies in
        'honorable' combat. More than one said that all civilians in a 'war'
        zone should be simply shot, to eliminate them from supporting the
        enemy.

        If people do not start seeing through the ancient cults and the
        brainwashing our culture instills in the children in support of those
        cults, the human experiment by Nature will end very badly indeed.

        > Another similar sentiment: My country, right or wrong; When right,
        to be
        > kept right. When wrong, to be put right.

        My gangster turf, right or wrong, or they will kill me and my family.
        Their might makes them right, so don't disagree. When disagreeing,
        they will make it right by killing you.

        > From Kipling, speaking for Vets:
        > "Why else were we spared the horrors of war, than to expose it for
        you?"
        > And:
        > "When they ask why we died, tell them 'because our fathers lied'".
        >
        > If only wars were really all about preserving freedoms, instead of
        > profitability for a few.

        As long as civilians believe that 'wars' are like the weather, and
        'just blow in', they will allow themselves to be led by the nose into
        the carefully set up and contrived situations the military cult calls
        'war'. Wars don't just happen. They are chosen from beginning to end.
        They were never about any of the generalities, like 'freedom', but to
        support the military. Even the 'profitability' is part of the military
        gaining enthusiasium from their turf slaves. All countries are only
        the land and support bases for the military, and all the politics and
        propaganda and rhetoric is only a smoke screen. War is the purpose and
        major ceremony of the cult, and mass human sacrifice is required.

        Vets, however, are the people most brainwashed by the military, the
        most mentally and physically scarred by the military's activities, and
        also the most likely to see through the bullshit. I am a vet. I saw
        through it. And while you might consider my strong raving as a
        reaction to my military experience, that is what you are conditioned
        to think. The truth is so horrifying that the mind evades thinking of
        it out of belief that nothing can be personally be done about it. But
        that maintains the horror, for it exists only because people do not
        think about it in the terms that fit it. There will come a time when
        the military cult is seen as the horror it is, and war will end
        because people will disband the cult globally. We have a ways to go
        yet, but it will come. We were not evolved to just die out.

        Peace,
        -Roan
      • James Radcliffe
        Superb, I completely agree. Lets stop glorifying war and treating those who served in them as heroes. Just those who were lucky enough to tell the tale of war.
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 12, 2000
          Superb, I completely agree. Lets stop glorifying war and treating those who
          served in them as heroes. Just those who were lucky enough to tell the tale
          of war.

          James
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Roan Carratu <freehold@...>
          To: <WorldCitizen@egroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 12:02 AM
          Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] ... veteran story


          > > From: "Matthew Pflantzbaum 24 Aug 2000
          > >
          > > >"You veterans... have the ability through your experience to help
          > in the
          > > >transformation of the world...
          > >
          > > Hear, Hear!
          >
          > Sure... by killing everyone if the terms you use to think about it
          > remains the terms the cult gang wants you to use. Look at everything
          > as it is, neither cynically nor optimistically. If what you see is
          > terrible beyond imagination, accept it and say it as it is. Only in
          > that way can people know the truth, which is not relative, btw. (Try
          > telling the hysterical mother of a small child who has been raped and
          > murdered by soldiers in Guatemala that truth is relative! Truth is
          > what happens, not our attitudes or opinions as to what happened.)
          >
          > > >...the non-Veterans were more responsible for the war than the
          > veterans...
          >
          > > A good generalization.
          >
          > War is prepared for, created by, and forced on the world by
          > militaries, uniformed or not. The military, globally, is the worse
          > curse the planet has ever generated.
          >
          > > Have you heard this? I believe It's from an Army chaplain, giving an
          > address
          > > to a class of cadets: (incomplete, from memory)
          > > It is the soldier, not the journalist, who preserves the right of
          > freedom of
          > > the press.
          >
          > Only if you own the presses.
          >
          > > It is the soldier, not the poet, who preserves the right of free
          > speech.
          >
          > Sure, you can say what you want, and if the military doesn't like it,
          > they kill you. Some 'right'!
          >
          > > It is not the protestor, but the soldier who salutes the flag, who
          > serves
          > > under the flag, and dies for the flag, who preserves the right to
          > burn the
          > > flag.
          >
          > The absolute worship of symbols is a sign of a fanatical cult, not a
          > rational act. There is no real freedom when fanatical cults rule the
          > people, no matter what label the cult has; religious, political, or
          > social. The military is the oldest 'cult' on the planet, and has
          > directly or indirectly been responsible for the death of a quarter of
          > all deaths in the last ten thousand years.
          >
          > > BTW, Carl Sagan wrote in 'Demon Haunted World': I only wish that
          > part of the
          > > citizenship oath was "I will question my government, and always
          > strive to be
          > > educated & involved in it". In the Pledge of Allegiance, that the
          > oath
          > > should be to the Constitution, instead of the flag; as a Judge,
          > soldier, or
          > > the president.
          >
          > Oaths are meaningless to people who would torture babies in front of
          > their parents to make them talk... or spread deadly disease through a
          > population, or burn an entire city until the asphalt streets flow like
          > burning lava... They use them to make their civilian slaves believe in
          > their 'holy' righteousness, but do not pay any attention other than
          > that. Militaries are gangs, which 'own' a turf, and enslave the people
          > within them for the glory of war. Many generals told me that all that
          > counts in life is war, and the glory of destroying their enemies in
          > 'honorable' combat. More than one said that all civilians in a 'war'
          > zone should be simply shot, to eliminate them from supporting the
          > enemy.
          >
          > If people do not start seeing through the ancient cults and the
          > brainwashing our culture instills in the children in support of those
          > cults, the human experiment by Nature will end very badly indeed.
          >
          > > Another similar sentiment: My country, right or wrong; When right,
          > to be
          > > kept right. When wrong, to be put right.
          >
          > My gangster turf, right or wrong, or they will kill me and my family.
          > Their might makes them right, so don't disagree. When disagreeing,
          > they will make it right by killing you.
          >
          > > From Kipling, speaking for Vets:
          > > "Why else were we spared the horrors of war, than to expose it for
          > you?"
          > > And:
          > > "When they ask why we died, tell them 'because our fathers lied'".
          > >
          > > If only wars were really all about preserving freedoms, instead of
          > > profitability for a few.
          >
          > As long as civilians believe that 'wars' are like the weather, and
          > 'just blow in', they will allow themselves to be led by the nose into
          > the carefully set up and contrived situations the military cult calls
          > 'war'. Wars don't just happen. They are chosen from beginning to end.
          > They were never about any of the generalities, like 'freedom', but to
          > support the military. Even the 'profitability' is part of the military
          > gaining enthusiasium from their turf slaves. All countries are only
          > the land and support bases for the military, and all the politics and
          > propaganda and rhetoric is only a smoke screen. War is the purpose and
          > major ceremony of the cult, and mass human sacrifice is required.
          >
          > Vets, however, are the people most brainwashed by the military, the
          > most mentally and physically scarred by the military's activities, and
          > also the most likely to see through the bullshit. I am a vet. I saw
          > through it. And while you might consider my strong raving as a
          > reaction to my military experience, that is what you are conditioned
          > to think. The truth is so horrifying that the mind evades thinking of
          > it out of belief that nothing can be personally be done about it. But
          > that maintains the horror, for it exists only because people do not
          > think about it in the terms that fit it. There will come a time when
          > the military cult is seen as the horror it is, and war will end
          > because people will disband the cult globally. We have a ways to go
          > yet, but it will come. We were not evolved to just die out.
          >
          > Peace,
          > -Roan
          >
          >
          >
          > "I have believed that the only way peace can be achieved is through world
          government" (Jawaharal Nehru)
          >
          > For more information: www.worldservice.org
          >
          >
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