Re: [WorldCitizen] community service
- ima_very_cool_cowboy@... sendis:
> I think that Americans would all resist being told what job theymy question was like: would they resist to doing some work for their
> must take and at what wage.
>The reality (or almost) in germany is that jobless people are told to
> I think if someone came to most Americans and said "YOU WILL WORK
> for us at $4/hour or we will arrest you and put your butt in jail..
> most would reach for a gun. I sure would. I grew up as a
> libertarian and a Cowboy and still live in a right to carry guns
go work for 1 euro per hour, or get no unemployed-payment at all
> Now being offered an option which we can refuse and being threatenedleave it to the americans to make too subtle distinctions... As I have
> under force of law are 2 really different things. i would consider
> the latter to be a form of tyranny.
a guaranteed basic income would give people a REAL choice as to what
kind of work and how much of it they want to do
> Now I have said it plainly, and MOST Americans consider my ideas toliberal, conservative... I really would welcome clearer terms...
> be liberal. Most are more conservative and far more reactionary
> than me.
>My rather explicit question was: do you americans oppose the existence
> I say it again as clearly as I can, Most Americans will resist being
> told what job they must take and at what pay they must accept. It
> is contrary to all the freedoms that America was founded on.
of a legal minimum-wage ?
- Actually, if we were to greatly weaken the government, overwhelming power would go to the giant corporations, and the giant corporations are not willing to allow men to take care of themselves. We don't want too strong a government, but without an adequately strong government, corporations would do even more crimes than they do now, and corporations would enslave everyone.
A telling example of what powerful people do when there are no government restraints is what happened in Byelorussia a number of centuries ago. At that time, The Russians, Ukranians, and Poles were not interested in Byelorussia becase Byelorussia was a maze of swamps with islands of forest. So Byelorussia was just allowed to be a wild area without any government, and was uninhabited.
However, some of the serfs felt like you do that they could take care of themselves if they could get away from government. It was brave and admirable of them. The sneaked away from their masters and made their way secretly through the inhabited areas until they reached the swamps of Byelorussia. There, they chopped down trees on the forested islands, built log cabins, and started farming. No doubt many of them perished before they could get established, but eventually, a population of small independent farmers began to develop, as well as some pathways for trading.
At that point, the nobility noticed what was happening and decided that it would be worthwhile to have estates in Byelorussia themselves. So they went to Byelorussia, accompanied by groups of guards. Once there, they set upon the independent farmers and by threats, and beatings if necessary, forced the independent farmers to sign over their land to the nobles and to at the same time sign their freedom away to become serfs of the newly come nobles.
Even the best of our governments are not perfect, but you are freer under the best governments than you would be in a nation fully controlled by the giant corporations.
So I don't think getting rid of government would do anything but create a kind of corporate feudalism in which everyone not part of the upper class would be an impoverished serf, and the serfs would not be allowed to set themselves up in business, even if they could afford to rent or buy a storefront.
The only hope is to create a government and legal structure which makes it possible for people to be free and have a reasonable standard of living. Part of that is restraining the wealthy bullies, and part is providing people with an alternative to being forced to go to work for the wealthy bullies.
I am not opposed to people like you working to support themselves independently. In fact, if you have understood what I have been saying over the months, you will know that I present the only viable plans to make it possible to retain freedom for people to work independently. The current trends, whether corporate or Libertarian, move towards a reduction of freedom for individuals (the Libertarian by allowing the corporations to enslave everyone = reducing regulation of corporations).
For example, anyone could use the guaranteed job as a springboard to start his or her own independent business, within my proposal. One does need some money to start a business, and a guaranteed job would provide that. In addition, one could choose a kind of guaranteed job work for oneself that one could transform into an independent business once one were doing one's guaranteed job successfully.
For example, one could provide certain services to people, and if the services were something people wanted, and one gained a reputation as a good provider of those services, one could just leave the guaranteed job and begin charging for the services instead.
Or one could make some product to give to people in need, and once one had a good enough product that other people wanted to buy, one could leave the guaranteed job and begin selling the product instead.
I have been saying that people should design their own guaranteed jobs if they wish. That would give people a lot of options.
--- In WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com, "Globalman" <globalman100@...> wrote:
> "It is my idea that government should provide a guaranteed jobs
> Why should 'guvment' provide a guaranteed jobs program? What are you? A baby? You want the guvment to wipe your bum too? Men need to grow up and take care of themselves. This dependence on 'guvment' has made you slaves to the guvment.
> Best Regards