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RE: [WorldCitizen] Society without coercion

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  • ro-esp
    ... where did you get that idea? If I let you poison the soil and get a suitcase full of crystal meth in return, that s a voluntary exchange for us, but who
    Message 1 of 93 , Apr 6 11:23 AM
      daniel@... sendis:

      >> The assumption has always been that all citizens of a society contribute
      > toward those things which benefit everyone in the society.
      > All voluntary exchanges do benefit society,

      where did you get that idea? If I let you poison the soil and get a suitcase
      full of crystal meth in return, that's a voluntary exchange for us, but
      who will benefit?

      > therefore anyone working in a non-coercive manner (ie the free market)

      obeying a market is not my idea of freedom

      > benefits someone else in society.
      > In a free market, an business not contributing anything useful does not get
      > any customers, and therefore get out of business.

      apart from in how far free markets can exist (they require that every
      potential buyer is aware of all the prices off all the offers), it depends.
      And you certainly can't turn it around.... You can offer a great product
      or service, but when people don't have the money, or prefer to spend it on
      something else... you can go bankrupt just the same.

      maybe you offer good healthy food, but they spend it on beer, maybe you offer
      well-carpented furniture, but they only can afford MDF which falls apart in
      a few years

      >> Ideally coercion is not necessary, but of course there has to be some
      >> system to enforce that taxes are both assessed and paid fairly and
      >> equitably.

      ideally you don't need money at all, but some people want a tangible
      acknowledgement of the work they did - or want to compare their own wealth
      with someone elses. Otherwise "it has to be done" would suffice. It usually
      does within your own household (economy is greek for household) doesn't it?

      > Who decides what is fair?

      Everybody I suppose. And although it might often not be easy to tell
      what's fair,
      often enough it's doable to decide what's fairer

      > A politician? I hope not! Politician are professional liars.

      Could we discuss without resorting to gross generalisations please?

      If you don't allow politicians the freedom to be anything else than liars, you
      shouldn't complain if they do lie to you

      groetjes, Ronaldo
    • Professor Dr.David Ngin Sian Pau
      To me the World Passport is a refugee passport which indicates my age, who I am and the place where I live now. As a UN refugee under the UNHCR
      Message 93 of 93 , Mar 10, 2011

        To me the World Passport is a refugee passport which indicates my age, who I am and the place where I live now. As a UN refugee under the UNHCR representation in Malaysia, my status doesn't come under Malaysian government law including Malaysian immigration law though I am in Malaysia. I am in Malaysia because it's one of the UN's territory in the world.  So the local police have no right to arrest me in any way. What I need from Malaysian government and police is "help" and "support" interms of money, job, food and  accomodation but not arresting and imprisonment till the UNHCR has completed processing my status to goto the USA.  Until then, my status will always be under the contract or treaty signed between Malaysian government and the United Nations Organization regardless of what other documents I am holding such as World Passport as long as I have the UN protection letter with me.
        To make clear about the point, World Government is a refugee organization that issues 15 years World Passport to people who can contribute at least US$400 to refugees through World Service Authority. Moreover, since it is a human rights organization they also issue World Passports to citizens of national governments though they may not be able to use it as a travel document abroad.
        For a refugee like me, holding and showing World Passport show I need more freedom and more help from the national government of Malaysia because of my status i.e. a refugee because I do not have the same opportunity as a Malaysian citizen has, interms of job seeking, political rights in voting and living standard though I live in the same country.  The police should not arrest me and take me to their national law court because I'm not eligible for it as I am just a refugee or stateless person at the moment. If I were eligible for becoming a Malaysian and having a Malaysian IC then can they use their law court to judge me otherwise their actions will result in violation of human rights and violation of the UN rules. If the case is too serious they can petition the case to a human right court or a court of justice but they must not judge me at Malaysian national court.
        So holding a World Passport should bear the reason why a person has the passport, and according to the status of that person all cases relating to him or her should be judged at the right law court whether a human right court, court of justice or a national government law court. The lawyers and the judges should keep this in mind that they deny or accept a petitioner's filing case accoriding the status of the person who is accused at the court.
        Professor Dr David Ngin Sian Pau  

        World Passport No: 343122


        From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
        To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 12:12:42 PM
        Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] How do you deal with this article?


        Dear Dr. David,

        I am not sure why you got the World Passport and you did not mention it in your post.

        Much of what the news article says is true.  Traveling with only the World Passport can be a challenge and you may be refused entry in many places, or you may gain entry after multiple attempts.

        When you get the World Passport you are first making a statement that you support the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.  This is why Garry Davis created it in the first place.  I urge you to read his book "My Country is The World" available from the website.
        http://www.worldgov ernment.org/ cat.html? s=4#books

        Cover of 
my country is the world

        #BK2 - $5(B)

        Garry Davis' exciting autobiography recounts the beginning of the world citizen movement and his travel adventures with the first World Passport.

        On May 25, 1948, Garry Davis, a former Broadway actor & B-17 bomber pilot in WW II, walked into the United States Embassy in Paris & renounced his United States citizenship. Since that spring day, Davis has claimed to be a World Citizen. Thus began a physical and spiritual odyssey which has many times led Davis back & forth across the globe & which has not yet ended. The story of that odyssey, of the man behind it & of the ideals of world citizenship & world peace which inspired it, is told in this highly dramatic, entertaining & timely book.

        He has faced the temptation of great power, as embodied in the 20,000 Parisians who cheered his speech in the Velodrome d'Hiver, in the bagful of mail which came to his little strip of no-man's-land between France & Germany, & in the over 1,000,000 people who registered as world citizens, with the support of internationally prominent intellectuals such as Camus, Einstein, Schweitzer & many others.

        Throughout, endowed with a sense of humor, inspired by both human rights & the wisdom of India's sages & guided by the ideals which originally led him to action, he has maintained his equilibrium to become an inspirational icon to peacemakers throughout our "global village."

        The World Passport is useful for someone who cannot get any other passport, perhaps a refugee or stateless or they are being denied an exit visa to leave where they are.  It is useful as a secondary travel document for someone with an existing National Passport. It is useful for someone wanting to make a political statement for human rights.  The WSA marriage certificate has helped many also and the WSA Birth Certificate has helped those with no documents.

        Some people mistakenly get it, thinking they can immigrate to the USA, Canada or the UK with it.  Sorry it is not useful for that because it does not fulfill all the requirements.

        What are the positive things about the World Passport and other WSA documents?

        1.  They are 100% legal documents issued by a long standing International Organization, probably second best to having a UN passport.  Even holders of a UN Passport are urged to carry their Nation Passport as well.

        2.  It has been in existence since 1953 and is not based on some weird scheme like internet virtual countries.  It is based on documents passed by the UN.. notably the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

        3.  It has a track record of being accepted in the past at least once in 150 countries since 1953 on a "de facto" or case-by-case basis.  It has been officially recognized in writing by 8 countries or jurisdictions.

        4.  It is recognized by both the Vatican and the United Nations High Commission for Refugees.

        The World Service Authority (now World Government of World Citizens) has remained controversial since the beginning.  Nation states do not want to give up their power over people's freedom of travel... not even the USA.  There are those who remain critical, but most do not doubt the sincerity of its founder Garry Davis.

        So in spite of criticism, those of us who support the ideals of WSA and have the world passport continue in our struggle to have the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Including Freedom of Travel with the World Passport, recognized everywhere in the world.



        --- On Sun, 4/4/10, Professor Dr.David Ngin Sian Pau <pauno71@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: Professor Dr.David Ngin Sian Pau <pauno71@yahoo. com>
        Subject: [WorldCitizen] How do you deal with this article?
        To: WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:02 AM


        This is an article available online which was sent to me from one of my friends in NZ, and I want you to read it as well. Click http://www.slate. com/id/2138567/ and give me your feed back. I have the world passport in my hand at the moment so I don't know what and how to do with my passport.

        Professor Dr David
        World Citizen
        World Passport Number: 343122
        ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ===

        ----- Forwarded Message ----
        From: "daniel@danmorin. com" <daniel@danmorin. com>
        To: WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 1:33:02 PM
        Subject: RE: [WorldCitizen] Re: Globalmans take on UDHR - modern slavery


        I agree.  This is what I am most afraid when people claim it is a “right”, it is nothing more than a tool for tyranny and increasing taxes (taxation is modern slavery).  Every “right” has to be paid by someone else (whatever it is education, health care, food, retirement).  If I worked to gain my paycheck, I owe nothing to nobody.  I have paid for my rent, electricity, food and everything else.  What remains in my pocket is mine.  This is how America became the most prosperous nation (before having their social security and all that wasteful spending).  Now America is bankrupt.  Prepare for hyperinflation.


        From: WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:WorldCitize n@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Globalman
        Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:27 PM
        To: WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [WorldCitizen] Re: Globalmans take on UDHR



        education and social security are presented as 'rights' in order to make them mandatory. They use 'social security' as the key to enslaving you and education is key to indoctrinating the children.

        In Germany the state will kidnap your child from you if you do not avail of your 'right to free education'. In sweden there are rumours of books being used to 'educate' children that are kept under lock and key that the parents are 'not allowed' to read.

        In the US the school books openly talk of 'the role of the US in the New World Order'. They openly talk about chem-trails as weather modification devices. 14 year olds are putting this stuff onto you-tube and adults are dismissing their concerns because they are children. I saw one you-tube account of a 14 year old claiming to have been arrested and thrown in jail for speaking out against the New World Order in his classroom. So much for freedom of speech eh? When you start calling the police and throwing 14 year olds in jail for saying they support the Freedoms listed in the US Constitution you know you already have a police state on your hands.

        USA, UK, Canada, Australia are all 'soft' police states now...and the cuffs are going on so gently with their little bit of padding that the people have not woken up to it.

        --- In WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com, <daniel@...> wrote:
        > > The UN UDHR was written by the Illuminati.
        > I agree. The UDHR is also a document full of contradictions. For instance,
        > having the right to work and the right to social security is a
        > contradiction, because the "right" to social security deprives someone else
        > the fruit of his/her labor.
        > "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and
        > well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing
        > and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in
        > the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other
        > lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."
        > This is a total contradiction as well. Something universal should be
        > universal around the world. How you define adequate health while some
        > people are dying starvation?
        > "Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in
        > the elementary and fundamental stages."
        > Education is "free" as the society gets more affluent, however it is not a
        > right. A right is something others are not coerced to provide. If
        > education is "free", it means someone else must pay for it.
        > From: WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com] On
        > Behalf Of ro-esp
        > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:58 PM
        > To: WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com
        > Subject: [WorldCitizen] Re: Globalmans take on udhr
        > globalman100@ ... <mailto:globalman100 %40yahoo. co.uk> sendis:
        > > Jim,
        > > I would suggest you do your research. The Illuminati thing is 'order
        > > out of chaos'. They create chaos and then present the 'solution'.
        > > It might not be too popular to say so here. But if you look at the
        > > UN UDHR French version that hangs in the UN you will see their
        > > symbol of the pyramid with the all seeing eye on top of it. Don't
        > > take my word for it. Google the picture for yourself.
        > >
        > > They like to stick that symbol on things so their faithful know they
        > > are in charge.
        > what's the use of being public when you want to be secret?
        > > The UN UDHR was writen by the Illuminati. Just like the US Constitution
        > was.
        > suppose they were: what is wrong in the Universal Declaration of Human
        > Rights?
        > What's wrong in the Constitution of the United States?
        > > Once you know how to read their symbols and how money really works
        > It's quite clear how money works: It makes the rich richer at the expense of
        > everyone and everything else
        > groetjes, Ronaldo
        > --
        > http://www.esperanto.net

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