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Re: America

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  • Michel Verheughe
    ... Of course, Joe! I am glad you mention it yourself; I don t want to criticize the US constitution but ... doesn t it start with We, the People? You have
    Message 1 of 65 , Jul 31, 2009
      > From: jodemas2 [jodemas2@...]
      > With most politicians being lawyers, and of the two major parties, they have made it
      > near impossible for third parties to have any meaningful presence in US elections.

      Of course, Joe! I am glad you mention it yourself; I don't want to criticize the US constitution but ... doesn't it start with "We, the People?" You have the possibility to change your political system. But why isn't it done yet?

      In my humble opinion, the Americans feel that, to govern, a party must have a parliamentary majority otherwise laws can't be voted. And that is true. But the way Europe does it is by having coalition governments. At the moment, the Norwegian government is a coalition of three different parties; the Labour party, the Socialist party and the Center party (the farmers/fishermen's party).

      Yesterday, on the TV, in an American sit-com, someone said: "Opinions are like asses; everybody has a different one!" Perhaps it is common but it was the first time I heard it and ... I like it! :-)

      Nothing prevents us to group into many different parties, each with different factions of sligthly different opinions and yet see all those people, who represent us, to make compromises and come to a common political programme for the next four years, or whatever is the mandate in your country.

      One of our former Prime Minister, Ms Gro Harlem Brundtland, leader of the Labour party, is married to a Right party (conservative) member. Isn't it beautiful when we have different opinions and yet, we can work together in a peaceful way?

      In my opinion, the greatest thing that has ever been said on earth are the words of the French philosopher Voltaire: "Sir, I disagree with you, but I am willing to offer my life to defend your right to tell your opinion." Later, I read that Voltaire never said that but ... it doesn't matter, it is the idea that counts.

      What would it take to have the Americans to accept the idea of coalition governements? Your constitution doesn't forbid it, does it?

      Best regards,
      Michel Verheughe
      Norway
    • jfnewell7
      If we survive, there will be this and that unfair thing over the next 10,000 or so years, and it is important to remain aware of those unfair future things.
      Message 65 of 65 , Sep 30, 2009
        If we survive, there will be this and that unfair thing over the next 10,000 or so years, and it is important to remain aware of those unfair future things. So, you make an important point in terms of strategy.

        That being said, good legal systems have slowly reduced the unfairness over the last few thousand years. The big problem legal systems have is that general principles don't apply perfectly to real situations, so far. Thus, any set of general laws and interpretations, so far, works for some specific situations and not for others.

        That means that to obtain a legal system which is always fair, we need to learn how to develop general laws and interpretations which adequately fit every possible situation. To do that, we will have to make major advances in our knowledge and thinking. But making advances in knowledge and thinking is something humans can do, since humans have often managed to do just that in the past.

        Jim

        --- In WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
        >
        > While simplistic... Most people perceive what is fair or good or just to be when it or the outcome agrees with their own desires, pleases them or gratifies them in some way. They perceive things to be unfair, bad or not just, when it is the other person and not they who benefits from the outcome.
        >
        > Just ask any child who when they protest, their sibling is given the outcome. the first thing they say is "That's not fair!"
        >
        > So within that context of human feelings... no legal system can be created where everyone smiles, claps and says that's fair. There will always be some who protest unfairness no matter what is done.
        >
        > Thus I think the poster is correct in saying "Probably politics can never be fair". It might be better expressed as "There will always be someone who thinks politics is not fair to them".
        >
        > Abraham Lincoln had a "handle on it" when he said "...you can't please all of the people all of the time". Any form of government which says they can do that is likely to be deemed "unfair" by someone.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Andrew
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, ampah johnson <captelecomm@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: ampah johnson <captelecomm@...>
        > Subject: Re : [WorldCitizen] Re: founding political parties
        > To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 9:56 AM
        >
        >
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        >
        > are you serious or not?
        >
        > --- En date de : Mer 16.9.09, jfnewell7 <jfnewell7@yahoo. com> a écrit :
        >
        >
        > De: jfnewell7 <jfnewell7@yahoo. com>
        > Objet: [WorldCitizen] Re: founding political parties
        > À: WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com
        > Date: Mercredi 16 Septembre 2009, 17h06
        >
        >
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        >
        > Probably politics can never be fair. The closest that we can come to a fair society is to have a legal system which treats everyone equally, and protects people when they need to be protected.
        >
        > In part, that kind of legal system emerges from passing laws which are humane and apply equally to everyone.
        >
        > In part, that kind of a legal system can be built up by just the right legal arguments in specific cases, which set precedents for a humane and equal legal system.
        >
        > Jim
        >
        > --- In WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com, Michel Verheughe <michel@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > From: Gary Shepherd [gshepher@ .]
        > > > Of course, in the United States, we have the 'district system' (called
        > > > the winner take all system here) which you thank god you don't
        > have.
        > >
        > > We have the same in Norway, Gary. A voter in the province of Finnmark, the northmost province with a very sparse population, has more influence on our parliament seats than someone living e.g. in or near the capital, Oslo.
        > >
        > > Is it fair? I don't know; I am not a politician. But it illustrates the fact that democracy is not two wolves and a lamb deciding what they will have for lunch. Democracy is also taking care of the less fortunated. This is why political correctness has become so important in our countries.
        > >
        > > Best regards,
        > > Michel Verheughe
        > > Norway
        > >
        >
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