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Re: [WorldCitizen] Re: Digest 825; 1a. Police are a necessary evil.

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  • george tzindaro
    Police work by its very nature attracts bullies and sadists. NOBODY can be trusted with the kind of power police are trusted with in any modern society.  
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 29, 2009
      Police work by its' very nature attracts bullies and sadists. NOBODY can be trusted with the kind of power police are trusted with in any modern society.
       
      The problem is not a political one. Regardless of what the laws are, police are the enemy. They will always be the problem, and no changes in the laws can change that.
       
      Anarchistic societies work fine at the small-village level. They do not work at the big-city level, but that is an argument against large concentrations of population, not against anarchism.

      --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Clarence Edwards <dababysdaddy@...> wrote:
      From: Clarence Edwards <dababysdaddy@...>
      Subject: [WorldCitizen] Re: Digest 825; 1a. Police are a necessary evil.
      To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:16 PM

      A democracy or any government would descend into anarchy without a 
      Police force and Judicial system.  The problem with most police forces 
      lies with the politicians who keep passing laws aimed at curing or 
      modifying behavior they perceive as immoral or destructive. (Laws 
      outlawing prostitution and Drug possession are two examples).   Police 
      powers need to be limited to protecting citizens against force or fraud.
      
      More laws passed by politicians, means more authority, resources and an 
      ever expanding force.  There will always be a certain number of 
      megalomainiacs who are able to become part of any police force, only by 
      limiting thier authority can we mitigate the damage they may do.
      
      
      ------------------------------------
      
      "I have believed that the only way peace can be achieved is through world
      government" (Jawaharal Nehru)
      
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    • Daniel Branch
      Clarence-The problem with most police forces lies with the politicians who keep passing laws aimed at curing or modifying behavior they perceive as immoral or
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 1, 2009
        Clarence-The problem with most police forces lies with the politicians
        who keep passing laws aimed at curing or modifying behavior they
        perceive as immoral or destructive.

        Right,Prohibition is a good example.

        On 1/23/09, Clarence Edwards <dababysdaddy@...> wrote:
        > A democracy or any government would descend into anarchy without a
        > Police force and Judicial system. The problem with most police forces
        > lies with the politicians who keep passing laws aimed at curing or
        > modifying behavior they perceive as immoral or destructive. (Laws
        > outlawing prostitution and Drug possession are two examples). Police
        > powers need to be limited to protecting citizens against force or fraud.
        >
        > More laws passed by politicians, means more authority, resources and an
        > ever expanding force. There will always be a certain number of
        > megalomainiacs who are able to become part of any police force, only by
        > limiting thier authority can we mitigate the damage they may do.
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > "I have believed that the only way peace can be achieved is through world government" (Jawaharal Nehru)
        >
        > For more information: www.worldservice.org and info@...
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Michel Verheughe
        ... I agree to some extend, George. How about this: Disarm the police and make them wear silly clothes! The UK and Norwegian polices carry no weapon and we
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 3, 2009
          > From: george tzindaro [tzindaro@...]
          > Police work by its' very nature attracts bullies and sadists.

          I agree to some extend, George. How about this: Disarm the police and make them wear silly clothes! The UK and Norwegian polices carry no weapon and we have some of the lowest crime rate in the world. Recruit policemen among those who want to serve the community and not those who want to play cowboys.

          What do you think?

          Best regards,
          Michel Verheughe
          Norway
        • Gary Shepherd
          Hi So would it be safe to say that as long as people still live in large concentrations, that government is a necessary evil? World Peace and Unity, Gary Gary
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 3, 2009

            Hi

            So would it be safe to say that as long as people still live in large concentrations, that government is a necessary evil?
            World Peace and Unity,
            Gary

             

            Gary K. Shepherd

             

            From: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of george tzindaro
            Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:40 PM
            To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] Re: Digest 825; 1a. Police are a necessary evil.

             

            Police work by its' very nature attracts bullies and sadists. NOBODY can be trusted with the kind of power police are trusted with in any modern society.

             

            The problem is not a political one. Regardless of what the laws are, police are the enemy. They will always be the problem, and no changes in the laws can change that.

             

            Anarchistic societies work fine at the small-village level. They do not work at the big-city level, but that is an argument against large concentrations of population, not against anarchism.

            --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Clarence Edwards <dababysdaddy@...> wrote:

            From: Clarence Edwards <dababysdaddy@...>
            Subject: [WorldCitizen] Re: Digest 825; 1a. Police are a necessary evil.
            To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:16 PM

            A democracy or any government would descend into anarchy without a 
            Police force and Judicial system.  The problem with most police forces 
            lies with the politicians who keep passing laws aimed at curing or 
            modifying behavior they perceive as immoral or destructive. (Laws 
            outlawing prostitution and Drug possession are two examples).   Police 
            powers need to be limited to protecting citizens against force or fraud.
              
            More laws passed by politicians, means more authority, resources and an 
            ever expanding force.  There will always be a certain number of 
            megalomainiacs who are able to become part of any police force, only by 
            limiting thier authority can we mitigate the damage they may do.
              
              
            ------------------------------------
              
            "I have believed that the only way peace can be achieved is through world
            government" (Jawaharal Nehru)
              
            For more information: www.worldservice.org and info@...
            Yahoo! Groups Links
              
            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldCitizen/
              
            <*> Your email settings:
                Individual Email | Traditional
              
            <*> To change settings online go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldCitizen/join
                (Yahoo! ID required)
              
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                mailto:WorldCitizen-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
              
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            <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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          • ro-esp
            Just some thoughts on police (incidentally, many think police IS , not ARE) Do we need people to direct traffic ? -in urbanized area s, probably yes. Do we
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 3, 2009
              Just some thoughts on police (incidentally, many think police IS , not ARE)

              Do we need people to direct traffic ? -in urbanized area's, probably yes.
              Do we need some institution to investigate murders and arson? probably yes.

              However, the main function of police is , that it's the expression
              of the monopoly on violence, held by the state

              -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
              Van: george tzindaro <tzindaro@...>


              > Police work by its' very nature attracts bullies and sadists.

              or people who aren't smart/strong enough to make it elsewhere..

              > NOBODY can be trusted with the kind of power police
              > are trusted with in any modern society.

              You agree that what they're allowed to do should be limited ?

              > The problem is not a political one.

              I think partly it is (especially when you take secret services into
              account),
              but for the other part you're probably right

              > Regardless of what the laws are, police are the enemy. They
              > will always be the problem, and no changes in the laws can change that.



              "police are the problem" is too simplistic to me, but they surely
              aren't the answer. Tackling problems by just increasing the amount of
              police or the amount of the things they are allowed to do, is fighting
              symptoms - or worse.

              groetjes, Ronaldo
            • Andres Espino
              Right Daniel, I agree! See my previous post about political correctness which has added to the mess. Andrew ... From: Daniel Branch
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 4, 2009
                Right Daniel, I agree!

                See my previous post about political correctness which has added to the mess.

                Andrew


                --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Daniel Branch <dbranch.branch@...> wrote:
                From: Daniel Branch <dbranch.branch@...>
                Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] Re: Digest 825; 1a. Police are a necessary evil.
                To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 10:33 AM

                Clarence-The problem with most police forces lies with the politicians
                who keep passing laws aimed at curing or modifying behavior they
                perceive as immoral or destructive.

                Right,Prohibition is a good example.

                On 1/23/09, Clarence Edwards <dababysdaddy@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                > A democracy or any government would descend into anarchy without a
                > Police force and Judicial system. The problem with most police forces
                > lies with the politicians who keep passing laws aimed at curing or
                > modifying behavior they perceive as immoral or destructive. (Laws
                > outlawing prostitution and Drug possession are two examples). Police
                > powers need to be limited to protecting citizens against force or fraud.
                >
                > More laws passed by politicians, means more authority, resources and an
                > ever expanding force. There will always be a certain number of
                > megalomainiacs who are able to become part of any police force, only by
                > limiting thier authority can we mitigate the damage they may do.
                >
                >
                > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                >
                > "I have believed that the only way peace can be achieved is through world government" (Jawaharal Nehru)
                >
                > For more information: www.worldservice. org and info@worldservice. org
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


              • Brian Keith Meyer
                UK do not have weapons.......oh how wrong you are.
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 6, 2009
                  UK do not have weapons.......oh how wrong you are.

                  Michel Verheughe wrote:
                  >
                  > > From: george tzindaro [tzindaro@... <mailto:tzindaro%40yahoo.com>]
                  > > Police work by its' very nature attracts bullies and sadists.
                  >
                  > I agree to some extend, George. How about this: Disarm the police and
                  > make them wear silly clothes! The UK and Norwegian polices carry no
                  > weapon and we have some of the lowest crime rate in the world. Recruit
                  > policemen among those who want to serve the community and not those
                  > who want to play cowboys.
                  >
                  > What do you think?
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  > Michel Verheughe
                  > Norway
                  >
                  >
                • Andres Espino
                  Since 1831, Bobbies were Police Constables or PC, followed by their badge number (PC-31 features in the Beatles song about a serial killer Maxwell s Silver
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 11, 2009
                    Since 1831, "Bobbies" were Police Constables or PC, followed by their badge number (PC-31 features in the Beatles song about a serial killer "Maxwell's Silver Hammer"). There was a time when the "bobbies" carried nothing except a whistle and a night stick which they beat on the ground to summon a mate.  Some of you may not know but the Bobbies were privately contracted by government to do security.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbies

                    Also in the USA many small towns elect a "town constable" and often he does his job unarmed as well, depending on calling in State Police or Sheriff to assist when needed.

                    Scotland Yard like the US FBI has always had access to weapons.  Now with the increase in violent crime and criminals with weapons, UK police now have access to weapons also, which they still use reluctantly, and far less often then American police.

                    Andrew


                    --- On Fri, 2/6/09, Brian Keith Meyer <brianmeyer@...> wrote:
                    From: Brian Keith Meyer <brianmeyer@...>
                    Subject: Re: [SPAM][WorldCitizen] RE: Police are a necessary evil.
                    To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 6:00 PM

                    UK do not have weapons..... ..oh how wrong you are.

                    Michel Verheughe wrote:
                    >
                    > > From: george tzindaro [tzindaro@yahoo. com <mailto:tzindaro% 40yahoo.com> ]
                    > > Police work by its' very nature attracts bullies and sadists.
                    >
                    > I agree to some extend, George. How about this: Disarm the police and
                    > make them wear silly clothes! The UK and Norwegian polices carry no
                    > weapon and we have some of the lowest crime rate in the world. Recruit
                    > policemen among those who want to serve the community and not those
                    > who want to play cowboys.
                    >
                    > What do you think?
                    >
                    > Best regards,
                    > Michel Verheughe
                    > Norway
                    >
                    >


                  • Michel Verheughe
                    ... Brian, what are you doing? Can t you read what I write? Is my English so bad? Cheers, Michel
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 11, 2009
                      I wrote:
                      > >Disarm the police and
                      > > make them wear silly clothes! The UK and Norwegian polices carry no
                      > > weapon and we have some of the lowest crime rate in the world.

                      and Brian answered:
                      > UK do not have weapons.......oh how wrong you are.

                      Brian, what are you doing? Can't you read what I write? Is my English so bad?

                      Cheers,
                      Michel
                    • ro-esp
                      ... Take away the tear gas? sure! firearms? probably ... Brian Keith Meyer ... As far as I know, the UK police does have weapons, but
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 11, 2009
                        Michel Verheughe wrote:
                        >>
                        >> How about this: Disarm the police

                        Take away the "tear"gas? sure!
                        firearms? probably

                        >>The UK and Norwegian polices carry no
                        >> weapon and we have some of the lowest crime rate in the world.

                        Brian Keith Meyer <brianmeyer@...>


                        >UK do not have weapons.......oh how wrong you are.


                        As far as I know, the UK police does have weapons, but they don't
                        routinely carry them when directing traffic or walking rounds

                        BTW i've heard that of all the police being hit by a bullet, 10%
                        gets hit by their own weapon (..)
                        groetjes, Ronaldo
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