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Re: lakota secession ?

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  • tzindaro
    Cyber WORLD??!!!? You mean the peop`le who do not have computers or do not want to use them do not get a vote? Only a minority of the world population have
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 31, 2008
      Cyber WORLD??!!!?

      You mean the peop`le who do not have computers or do not want to use
      them do not get a vote?

      Only a minority of the world population have regular computer access.


      --- In WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Eggum" <bruce.eggum@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > A rather long post, however Means explains himself as well as the
      > Lakotah do. This is a bit like the "leader" who explains his "idea"
      > than goes ahead without taking Referendum of the people. That is
      what
      > we have now, no referendum, no say in the "plan".
      >
      > For "world" we need a World Assembly which can be done now with the
      > cyber world. We can than all have the facts and all make our own
      vote
      > on "the plan" and the actions. Bruce
      >
      > Lakota leaders rejected the Lakotah Freedom
      >
      > ========================================================
      > 8.
      >
      > If anyone would like to comment on this, feel free and I will post
      it.
      > Reposted here with permission.
      >
      > From: Pokey pokey@...
      >
      > Subject: Re: Website Comments re: Means/Lakotah
      >
      > The Lakota leaders rejected the Lakotah Freedom Delegation's
      proposal. We
      > are NOT part of what Russell Means is trying to do. He didn't ask
      the
      > Lakota
      > people or our leaders about this before he started. It hasn't been
      brought
      > to our Elders or any other of our people before hand. There has
      been
      > rejection statements in the news papers from our leaders. Russell
      > Means even
      > read to us a letter of rejection form his own tribe.
      >
      > If we was to be part of this he would have to come up with some
      better
      > ideas
      > on how things was to be done and take it to the people and find
      out if
      > that's what everyone wants. Smoky and I went to the meeting in St.
      Francis
      > and we left about 3:00 because what he was saying just wouldn't
      work
      > the way
      > he thinks it would.
      >
      > Here's some questions you might ask him and see what kind of
      answers
      > he has
      > and figure out for yourself how well this would work.
      >
      > What if we became a Free and Independent Lakota Country
      >
      > 1. If we are no longer part of the U S how will we support our
      people ? We
      > wouldn't be able to get U S Grants anymore either. We are having a
      hard
      > enough time now even with the government programs and grants !We
      don't
      > have
      > any kind of industry, all the government programs we have now will
      stop
      > because they are part of the treaties and U S government.
      > 2. Where will our communications systems come from ?
      >
      > We don't have any of our own companies.
      >
      > 3 What kind of money system will we have ? What do we have to back
      it up
      > with ? No one is going to put their money in our banks, with out
      some kind
      > of interest or returns, and say ok here do what you want to with
      it. Will
      > our money be excepted every place we want to spend it ?
      >
      > 4. How will we defend ourselves ? We don't have any military in
      place nor
      > weapons of any kind. You know everyone even the U S will be at war
      with us
      > trying to over throw our government. If they succeed we would
      really lose
      > everything including the treaties.
      >
      > 5. What utilities will we have ? Where will they come from ? How
      will
      > we pay
      > for it ?
      >
      > 6. What do we have as far as postal services ?
      >
      > 7. Passports, visa's, paying duty ? Mission,S.D. isn't part of the
      > Rez. Will
      > we need a passport and visa to go shopping and pay duty on the
      goods
      > we buy
      > there ? Will they accept our form of money and will we have to pay
      extra
      > like Canada and other countries do ? Will we have to have a visa
      to go to
      > Antelope, Winner, Valentine ? We'd have to go through Mission to
      go to
      > these
      > places. Will friends and families that don't live here have to go
      through
      > all this to come visit us ? My grand-daughter and great-grand
      daughter
      > live
      > in Mission. We live in Rosebud 10 miles from Mission.
      >
      > 8. Will we still have tribal presidents or will we have one
      president
      > to run
      > our country like the other countries do ? Would we have a
      president or a
      > dictator ? If we couldn't vote on a president, we'd have a dictator
      > wouldn't
      > we.
      >
      > 9. Will we have to import all our food and goods which will make
      > prices sky
      > rocket way out of our ability to pay ? What will we do if
      companies that
      > have what we need don't want to have anything to do with us now
      that
      > we have
      > our own money system ?
      >
      > 10. What about all the medical and other people providing services
      we need
      > that aren't Indian ? Will they have to have passports, visa's and
      work
      > permits ? What about their friends and family that want to come
      visit them
      > from outside of our country but live with in the U S ?
      >
      > 11. What would become of all the money that was paid into Social
      > Security. I
      > know the SS wouldn't give it all back to the people that paid into
      it all
      > during their working years.
      >
      > 12. What laws will we have ? Who will determine what they are ?
      Who will
      > enforce them ?
      >
      > 13. What foreign policies will we have ? Who will determined what
      they
      > are ?
      > Will the people have anything to say about it.
      >
      > 14. Exactly where would our country be located ? Would it be all
      the 5
      > states or just one ? And which one would it be if it was just one ?
      >
      > 15. No taxes ? If we don't have to pay taxes who will pay for all
      the
      > stuff
      > that the taxes pay for now, like roads, schools, jails, our
      government
      > workers, and all the other things it pays for ? We can't spin gold
      out of
      > straw.
      >
      > 16. Why wasn't this brought to a vote by the people ? No one has
      the right
      > to speak for all of us with out our consent. Even our tribal
      presidents
      > don't have the right to give the ok with out asking us how we feel
      about
      > something like this and giving us a chance to vote on it. I am an
      enrolled
      > member and I'm an Elder but no one said any thing to me, the first
      I heard
      > of this is when someone from Ohio asked me about it in an E-Mail.
      All the
      > Elders I asked about it said they didn't hear anything about it
      either
      > even
      > our tribal President didn't know.
      >
      > Please excuse all the questions but these are all issues that would
      > have to
      > be addressed in a satisfactory way before we would even consider
      being our
      > own separate country in the middle of the U S. Sure these other
      countries
      > would bring weapons and someone that knows how to use them and
      help us
      > defend our country, they want a piece of the pie too. Who's kidding
      > who here
      > ?
      >
      > If Russell Means really wanted to do something worth while, why
      don't he
      > petition the U S Government to honor the treaties instead of
      trying to
      > start
      > a war that every one knows we will lose and our country would be
      taken
      > over
      > with out any treaties or anything else and we would be a lot worse
      off
      > than
      > we are right now.
      >
      > Better think about the harm this would cause to all of us. Oh come
      on wake
      > up ! ! ! Quit making a fool of yourselves and the Lakota people !
      >
      > Every one here on the Rosebud Reservation tell me Russell is just
      > trying to
      > fill his pockets at the expense of our people and for me not to
      worry
      > about
      > it sooner or later every one will know he's just making a fool of
      himself,
      > well if it was just himself I would just laugh along with every one
      > else but
      > he's making the Lakota look like fools right along with himself !
      >
      > By the way some one needs to teach Russell how to spell Lakota,
      there's no
      > "h" at the end of Lakota !
      >
      > Love In Friendship Pokey
      >
      >
      >
      > Re: Website Comments
      >
      > Read the answers they sent below. They didn't really answer in a
      sensible
      > way for the few questions they did answer.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      > From: Lookinghawk looking_hawk@...
      >
      > To: Pokey pokey@...
      >
      > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:49 PM
      >
      > Subject: Re: Website Comments
      >
      > This is a response to an email sent to the webmaster from Pokey
      from the
      > Rosebud Reservation.
      >
      > January 25, 2008
      >
      > Dear Pokey,
      >
      > Russell Means has asked me to respond to your letter. I will do my
      best.
      > Some of the responses, particularly the ones with exclamation
      marks, are
      > direct quotes from Russell. I have regrouped some of your points to
      > address
      > them together.
      >
      > Best,
      >
      > Jerry Collette, Interim Attorney General
      >
      > Provisional Government
      >
      > Q. The Lakota leaders rejected the Lakotah Freedom Delegation's
      > proposal. We
      > are NOT part of what Russell Means is trying to do. There have been
      > rejection statements in the news papers from our leaders.
      >
      > A. British colonial government leaders rejected the proposal by the
      > American
      > colonists to declare their independence. They were not part of
      what the
      > signers of the Declaration of Independence were trying to do.
      There were
      > rejection statements in the newspapers from the colonial governors
      > appointed
      > by the Crown.
      >
      > Q. Russell Means even read to us a letter of rejection from his
      own tribe.
      >
      > A. Russell read the letter from the Indian administrators (who have
      > the full
      > authority to administer US government Indian policies and nothing
      else)
      > because their letter detailed gross treaty violations by the US.
      These
      > "leaders" see the same problems as the freedom seekers do, but
      they still
      > believe in the treaties. Do they still believe in the Tooth Fairy,
      too?
      >
      > Q. He didn't ask the Lakota people or our leaders about this
      before he
      > started. It hasn't been brought to our Elders or any other of our
      people
      > beforehand.
      >
      > A. In 1974, the first International TREATY Conference at Wakpala
      on the
      > Standing Rock Sioux Indian reservation in what is now called South
      Dakota
      > was where the Declaration of Continuing Independence was created.
      The full
      > text of the Declaration is available at
      >
      http://republicoflakotah.com/docs/declarationofcontinuingindependence
      .pdf
      > The conference was attended by numerous elders. These were not your
      > ordinary
      > elders; most of them were born to parents who had been born free,
      they had
      > never been to schools, and they spoke little of no English.
      >
      > These elders gave Russell and the younger participants two
      mandates. The
      > first mandate was to become recognized by the International
      > Communities. On
      > September 2007, when the United Nations passed the Declaration of
      > Indigenous
      > Rights, that mandate was fulfilled. The second mandate is to
      return to our
      > original status as free and Independent Nations. On December 17,
      2007, the
      > Lakotah Freedom Delegation notified the Department of State of the
      United
      > States of America, we are unilaterally withdrawing from all
      Treaties and
      > Agreements entered into between the United States of America and
      Lakotah.
      >
      > Before going to Washington, Russell traveled all over the five
      state area
      > meeting with key people over a seven month period. Russell is now
      in his
      > sixty-ninth winter, and has been working on achieving better
      > conditions for
      > the Indian people for over forty years. He is an elder!
      >
      > Q. Smoky and I went to the meeting in St. Francis and we left
      about 3:00
      > because what he was saying just wouldn't work the way he thinks it
      would.
      >
      > A. You left before the best part. The closing ceremony was amazing.
      >
      > Q. Here's some questions you might ask him.
      >
      > > 1. If we are no longer part of the US how will we support our
      people? We
      > wouldn't be able to get US Grants anymore either. We are having a
      hard
      > enough time now even with the government programs and grants! We
      don't
      > have
      > any kind of industry, all the government programs we have now will
      stop
      > because they are part of the treaties and US government.
      >
      > A. The US government has done a tremendous job of training Lakotah
      > people to
      > be dependent. We are now in a transition period, during which those
      > programs
      > continue while we reestablish our independence. This was done in
      the
      > Compacts of Free Association that the US government did when the
      former
      > Trust Territories of the Pacific, the Republic of the Marshall
      > Islands, the
      > Republic of Palau, and the Federated States of Micronesia,
      reestablished
      > their sovereignty and freedom.
      >
      > > 2. Where will our communications systems come from ? We don't
      have
      > any of
      > our own companies.
      >
      > > 9. Will we have to import all our food and goods which will make
      prices
      > sky rocket way out of our ability to pay ? What will we do if
      > companies that
      > have what we need don't want to have anything to do with us now
      that
      > we have
      > our own money system ?
      >
      > A. Companies will trade. That is what they do. Prices tend to be
      lower in
      > countries with less regulations. For example, identical
      prescription drugs
      > are as much as ninety percent cheaper in other countries as they
      are
      > in the
      > US. This is because the US has so many laws that the Lakotah
      people do not
      > need.
      >
      > Industry is flocking to invest here since we have reasserted our
      > sovereignty. Investors like free countries. Their money return is
      > faster and
      > greater. Check out the investment that happened in the eastern
      European
      > countries after they became free from the Soviet Union! Other
      countries,
      > like East Timor, etc., have had similar investment booms.
      >
      > > 3. What kind of money system will we have ? What do we have to
      back
      > it up
      > with ? No one is going to put their money in our banks, with out
      some kind
      > of interest or returns, and say ok here do what you want to with
      it. Will
      > our money be accepted every place we want to spend it ?
      >
      > A. We expect that there will be many money systems. Some people
      will still
      > use US dollars. We also plan to have our own currency, which will
      be
      > backed
      > by gold and silver. We have people from all over the world
      interested in
      > this because, unlike the US dollar and all other governments
      currencies,
      > ours will be backed by real value, not just printed up whenever the
      > central
      > bankers decide, like the US dollar, etc.
      >
      > > 4. How will we defend ourselves ? We don't have any military in
      > place nor
      > weapons of any kind. You know everyone even the US will be at war
      with us
      > trying to over throw our government. If they succeed we would
      really lose
      > everything including the treaties.
      >
      > A. Sure these other countries would bring weapons and someone that
      > knows how
      > to use them and help us defend our country, they want a piece of
      the pie
      > too. Who's kidding who here ?
      >
      > The US is not our enemy, and they have no reason to attack us.
      Costa Rica
      > has no military. The US has brainwashed its people that it needs a
      global
      > military presence and taxes them like mad to fund it. We will not
      follow
      > such a folly.
      >
      > Everything we are doing is lawful and legal! We are following US
      laws and
      > international laws. We will never have to expend anyone else's
      money so we
      > can have an army. We do not need one!
      >
      > > 5. What utilities will we have ? Where will they come from ? How
      will we
      > pay for it ?
      >
      > > 6. What do we have as far as postal services?
      >
      > > 7. Passports, Visa's, paying duty? Mission, S.D. isn't part of
      the Rez.
      > Will we need a passport and visa to go shopping and pay duty on the
      > goods we
      > buy there? Will they accept our form of money and will we have to
      pay
      > extra
      > like Canada and other countries do? Will we have to have a visa to
      go to
      > Antelope, Winner, Valentine? We'd have to go through Mission to go
      to
      > these
      > places. Will friends and families that don't live here have to go
      through
      > all this to come visit us ? My grand-daughter and great-grand
      daughter
      > live
      > in Mission. We live in Rosebud 10 miles from Mission.
      >
      > > 10. What about all the medical and other people providing
      services
      > we need
      > that aren't Indian? Will they have to have passports, Visa's and
      work
      > permits ? What about their friends and family that want to come
      visit them
      > from outside of our country but live with in the U S ?
      >
      > > 11. What would become of all the money that was paid into Social
      > Security.
      > I know the SS wouldn't give it all back to the people that paid
      into
      > it all
      > during their working years.
      >
      > A. Transitions for all these kinds of things have been done before
      > elsewhere. There are experts who know how to do this, and they will
      > help us,
      > too. Already we have doctors, lawyers, engineers of all types,
      skilled
      > workers, teachers, etc, etc. etc., emailing us wanting to come to
      a free
      > country! When you are truly free, you don't have time to complain!
      >
      > > 8. Will we still have tribal presidents or will we have one
      president to
      > run our country like the other countries do? Would we have a
      president
      > or a
      > dictator? If we couldn't vote on a president, we'd have a dictator
      > wouldn't
      > we.
      >
      > > 12. What laws will we have? Who will determine what they are?
      Who will
      > enforce them?
      >
      > > 13. What foreign policies will we have? Who will determined what
      > they are?
      > Will the people have anything to say about it.
      >
      > A. We are only the provisional government; we are serving as
      midwives for
      > the rebirth of the Lakotah as a free people. The Lakotah people
      will
      > decide
      > on their own form of government. Remember, we are not starting from
      > scratch.
      > Before the white man came, Indians governed themselves freely for
      > thousands
      > of years. The white man used the Indian model to create the United
      States
      > Constitution.
      >
      > > 14. Exactly where would our country be located? Would it be all
      the 5
      > states or just one ? And which one would it be if it was just one ?
      >
      > A. The map you see represents the 1851 treaty boundaries, but our
      > traditional lands go beyond that. The exact boundaries are yet to
      be
      > determined. We are not waiving any claims to our traditional lands.
      >
      > > 15. No taxes? If we don't have to pay taxes who will pay for all
      the
      > stuff
      > that the taxes pay for now, like roads, schools, jails, our
      government
      > workers, and all the other things it pays for? We can't spin gold
      out of
      > straw. If we was to be part of this he would have to come up with
      some
      > better ideas on how things was to be done and take it to the people
      > and find
      > out if that's what everyone wants.
      >
      > A. We expect that there will be local taxes, but not national
      ones. The
      > local governments will support the national government. We are not
      > expecting
      > to have huge governments. Free people do not need them. They do
      not work,
      > anyway. We have seen that.
      >
      > > 16. Why wasn't this brought to a vote by the people? No one has
      the
      > right
      > to speak for all of us with out our consent. Even our tribal
      presidents
      > don't have the right to give the ok with out asking us how we feel
      about
      > something like this and giving us a chance to vote on it. I am an
      enrolled
      > member and I'm an Elder but no one said any thing to me, the first
      I heard
      > of this is when someone from Ohio asked me about it in an E-Mail.
      All the
      > Elders I asked about it said they didn't hear anything about it
      > either. Even
      > our tribal President didn't know.
      >
      > A. We came to a treaty meeting on Rosebud (at St. Francis) before
      we
      > went to
      > DC. Then, we had the meeting at Rosebud after we came back, part
      of which
      > you even attended. We are having more meetings; we just had one at
      > Standing
      > Rock last weekend, we are having one at Yankton this weekend, and
      we are
      > scheduling one for Rapid City. We will also be posting more info
      on the
      > website as things develop.
      >
      > We did not ask the permission of the US authorities disguised as
      tribal
      > leaders. They like the existing system. They are in power, and
      they get to
      > keep that power by begging to Washington for crumbs for our
      people. Then,
      > eighty-three cents of every dollar they get from Washington goes to
      > administration, and seventeen cents ends up passing through the
      > reservation
      > briefly on its way back to the white man's corporations.
      >
      > > 17. Please excuse all the questions but these are all issues
      that would
      > have to be addressed in a satisfactory way before we would even
      consider
      > being our own separate country in the middle of the U S.
      >
      > A. They will all be addressed during the transition period. The
      United
      > States has not left yet.
      >
      > > 18. If Russell Means really wanted to do something worth while,
      why
      > don't
      > he petition the US Government to honor the treaties instead of
      trying to
      > start a war that every one knows we will lose and our country
      would be
      > taken
      > over with out any treaties or anything else and we would be a lot
      > worse off
      > than we are right now.
      >
      > A. Russell has been working for over forty years to get the US to
      > honor its
      > treaties. There will be no war with the US. Do you really believe
      the US
      > people will allow their government to bomb us? We can count on
      things
      > getting worse if we continue under US domination.
      >
      > Your email responce will be answered this way in a public forum.
      > www.republicoflakotah.com
      >
      > > 19. Every one here on the Rosebud Reservation tell me Russell is
      just
      > trying to fill his pockets at the expense of our people.
      >
      > A. Out of his concern for his people, Russell is paying a lot of
      his own
      > money to do this. However, a rising tide does raise all the ships
      in the
      > harbor. With freedom and economic prosperity in Lakotah, we will
      all do
      > better. Does anybody expect our situation to improve much under the
      > current
      > system? You know that everything has gotten worse during your
      > lifetime. Wake
      > up and smell the coffee!
      >
      > > 20. Sooner or later every one will know he's just making a fool
      of
      > himself, well if it was just himself I would just laugh along with
      > every one
      > else but he's making the Lakotah look like fools right along with
      himself!
      >
      > A. Russell admits that he was foolish to believe in the treaties
      for
      > as long
      > as he did, but does not fault the Lakotah people who still believe
      in
      > them.
      >
      > >21. By the way some one needs to teach Russell how to spell
      Lakota,
      > there's
      > no "h" at the end of Lakota !
      >
      > A. You are free to spell it the white man's way if you prefer.
      >
      > --- In WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com, "rbw1047" <rbw1047@> wrote:
      > >
      > > No nation can be sovereign within the borders of the US. Indian
      > > nations are NOT sovereign and are for the most part dependant on
      the
      > > US government either welfare, AFDC or casino money.
      > > While it may sound politically correct its totally unfeasable.
      As
      > > another poster accurately stated Native Americans are wards of
      the
      > > BIA. They are not sovereign nations, but conquered nations and
      as
      > > such subservient. When Native people became citizens in 1924
      they
      > > lost any true sovereignty they had. Folks might remember the
      last
      > > time a part of the U.S. declared independance in 1861. How
      sovereign
      > > is South Carolina now?
      > > Dr. Franklin Farmer
      > > Toronto
      > > P.S. I'm a member of the Cherokee "Nation" who got tired of
      living in
      > > a racist nation and left!
      >
    • JonahDawson@aol.com
      We here in Costa Rica are very proud of these peoples for making such a bold but necessary move. The mission of these peoples will be accomplished. They will
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 15, 2008

        We here in Costa Rica are very proud of these peoples for making such a bold but necessary move. The mission of these peoples will be accomplished. They will become a sovereign nation of peace.

        Other nations will send delegations, statesman, teachers, students and the like to assist in these awesome transitions. Nations will establish embassays and commerce with these gentle peoples.

        This moves success is emminant. Ahoe Yashua.
         
         
         
         
         


         
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      • jeff_simonian
        Right below the Ghettos - In the face of the colonial apartheid conditions imposed on Lakotah people, the withdrawal from the U.S. Treaties is necessary. These
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 19, 2008
          Right below the Ghettos -

          In the face of the colonial apartheid conditions imposed on Lakotah
          people, the withdrawal from the U.S. Treaties is necessary. These
          conditions have been devastating:

          MORTALITY
          Lakotah men have a life expectancy of less than 44 years, lowest of
          any country in the World (excluding AIDS) including Haiti.
          Lakotah death rate is the highest in the United States.
          The Lakotah infant mortality rate is 300% more than the U.S. Average.
          Teenage suicide rate is 150% higher than the U.S national average for
          this group.

          DRUGS AND ALCOHOL
          More than half the Reservation's adults battle addiction and disease.
          Alcoholism affects 8 in 10 families.

          INCARCERATION
          Indian children incarceration rate 40% higher than whites.
          In South Dakota, 21 percent of state prisoners were Native.
          Indians have the second largest state prison incarceration rate in
          the nation.

          DISEASE
          The Tuberculosis rate on Lakotah reservations is approx 800% higher
          than the U.S national average.
          Cervical cancer is 500% higher than the U.S national average.
          The rate of diabetes is 800% higher than the U.S national average.
          Federal Commodity Food Program provides high sugar foods that kill
          Native people through diabetes and heart disease.

          POVERTY
          Median income is approximately $2,600 to $3,500 per year.
          97% of our Lakotah people live below the poverty line.
          Many families cannot afford heating oil, wood or propane and many
          residents use ovens to heat their homes.

          HOUSING
          Elderly die each winter from hypothermia (freezing).
          1/3 of the homes lack basic clean water and sewage while 40% lack
          electricity.
          60% of Reservation families have no telephone.
          60% of housing is infected with potentially fatal black molds.
          There is an estimated average of 17 people living in each family home
          (may only have two to three rooms). Some homes, built for 6 to 8
          people, have up to 30 people living in them.

          UNEMPLOYMENT
          Unemployment rates on our reservations is 85% or higher.

          THREATENED CULTURE
          Only 14% of the Lakotah population can speak Lakotah
          language.
          The language is not being shared inter-generationally, today, the
          average Lakotah speaker is 65 years old.
          Our lakotah language is an Endangered Language, on the verge of
          extinction.


          After 150 years of colonial enforcement, when you back people into a
          corner there is only one alternative. That alternative is to bring
          freedom back into existence by taking it back - back to the love of
          freedom, to our lifeway. Canupa Gluha Mani







          --- In WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com, JonahDawson@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > We here in Costa Rica are very proud of these peoples for making
          such a bold but necessary move. The mission of these peoples will be
          accomplished. They will become a sovereign nation of peace.
          >
          > Other nations will send delegations, statesman, teachers, students
          and the like to assist in these awesome transitions. Nations will
          establish embassays and commerce with these gentle peoples.
          >
          > This moves success is emminant. Ahoe Yashua.
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