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Re: [WorldCitizen] DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT

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  • robert clark
    The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the United Nations documents I can no longer support this. We should get as far away from the
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 30, 2007
      The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the United Nations documents I can no longer support this. We should get as far away from the UN as possible.
      They are the criminals who are behind the wars, famine and chaos in the world 2day.

      John <truthseeker.john@...> wrote:
      But who were/are the real terrorists?
       
      THINK!
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:05 AM
      Subject: [WorldCitizen] DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT

      A DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT IS NECESSARY TO END THE MENACE OF
      TERRORISM.NATIONALI SM AND TERRORISM ARE TWO FACETS OF THE SAME COIN.MY
      HEART FELT TRIBUTE TO THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES ON SEPTEMBER 9/11.



      "I have believed that the only way peace can be achieved is through world government" (Jawaharal Nehru)

      For more information: www.worldservice. org and info@worldservice. org
       
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    • ro-esp
      ... support what? please elaborate ... My take on who is terrorist: it depends on your definition of terrorism. Deadly force against innocent
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 2, 2007
        Quoting robert clark <robert.clark2342@...>:

        > The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the
        > United Nations documents I can no longer support this.

        support what? please elaborate

        > We should get as far away from the UN as possible.
        > They are the criminals who are behind the wars, famine and chaos
        > in the world 2day.


        My take on who is terrorist: it depends on your definition of terrorism.
        Deadly force against innocent civilians/passers-by should be in it.
        Creating an atmosfere of fear probably also.
        So who kills innocent civilians and creates an atmosfere of fear ?
        I only see big corporations and some governments (we don't have
        warlords where I reside)

        groetjes, Ronaldo

        --
        http://www.esperanto.net
      • Sabzali Khan
        Dear John The actual Terrorists of the World are / were the Industrialists of Weapons and Ammunitions.Are you agree? Sabzali Khan Author s of True Democracy
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 2, 2007
          Dear John
           The actual Terrorists of the World are / were the Industrialists of Weapons and Ammunitions.Are you agree?
          Sabzali Khan
          Author's of True Democracy for World Government

          robert clark <robert.clark2342@...> wrote:
          The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the United Nations documents I can no longer support this. We should get as far away from the UN as possible.
          They are the criminals who are behind the wars, famine and chaos in the world 2day.

          John <truthseeker. john@talktalk. net> wrote:
          But who were/are the real terrorists?
           
          THINK!
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:05 AM
          Subject: [WorldCitizen] DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT

          A DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT IS NECESSARY TO END THE MENACE OF
          TERRORISM.NATIONALI SM AND TERRORISM ARE TWO FACETS OF THE SAME COIN.MY
          HEART FELT TRIBUTE TO THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES ON SEPTEMBER 9/11.



          "I have believed that the only way peace can be achieved is through world government" (Jawaharal Nehru)

          For more information: www.worldservice. org and info@worldservice. org
           
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        • jodemas2
          ... documents I can no longer support this. What is so wrong with the Declaration that you cannot support it?
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 2, 2007
            --- In WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com, robert clark
            <robert.clark2342@...> wrote:

            >Since the declaration of human rights is in the United Nations
            documents I can no longer support this.

            What is so wrong with the Declaration that you cannot support it?
          • Andres Espino
            I dont believe fault lies specificly with the United Nations. Generally it is the lack of cooperation of the individual Nation States who are its members. The
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 2, 2007
              I dont believe fault lies specificly with the United Nations.  Generally it is the lack of cooperation of the individual Nation States who are its members. 
               
              The United Nations inspectors urged the USA to NOT invad Iraq, but rather to extend negotiations further.  Yet the US decided to reject that decision and did what it wanted anyway.  In President Bush's speech to the American people before the invasion, he commented briefly that he would not let the opinion of third world countries (UN Members all) decide what was best for the American people.  We commited ourselves to war against UN recommendations.
               
              This seems to be common among most Nations these days.  They want the UN to look after refugees and health issues and so on, but they do not want the UN to determine any of their country's policy. in effect, "give us what we want, but don't tell us what to do."
               
              Personally I think the United nations has always been among the first to issue policies and declarations for the benefit of humanity, even though nation states did not implement them.  The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights is one of many such examples.
               
              WSA founder Gary Davis saw the beauty and greatness in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights and used it as a first building block to form the World Service Authority and to begin the hope for peaceful World Government.  Basicly it is always there under everything the WSA does and it is a foundation for this forum as well.
               
              Rivalry between individual Nation States is causing most of the suffering and inhumanity around the world today.
               
              Regards,
               
              Andres


              ro-esp <ro-esp@...> wrote:
              Quoting robert clark <robert.clark2342@ sbcglobal. net>:

              > The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the
              > United Nations documents I can no longer support this.

              support what? please elaborate

              > We should get as far away from the UN as possible.
              > They are the criminals who are behind the wars, famine and chaos
              > in the world 2day.

              My take on who is terrorist: it depends on your definition of terrorism.
              Deadly force against innocent civilians/passers- by should be in it.
              Creating an atmosfere of fear probably also.
              So who kills innocent civilians and creates an atmosfere of fear ?
              I only see big corporations and some governments (we don't have
              warlords where I reside)

              groetjes, Ronaldo

              --
              http://www.esperant o.net


              Building a website is a piece of cake.
              Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

            • Gary Shepherd
              Hi Actually, I think that a great deal of our current world economic and social order depends upon violence in one form or another, and terrorism is just one
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 3, 2007

                Hi

                Actually, I think that a great deal of our current world economic and social order depends upon violence in one form or another, and terrorism is just one ‘flavor’ of violence that is endemic to the system. The legal definition of terrorism (at least in the United States ) specifies that it must be committed by a non state actor, which (very neatly) means that no matter what the government does, it can’t be classified as terrorism. If we use a less limited (and less emotionally loaded) word like violence, then I would say that it is safe to say that the entire social system (including the UN) does in fact share some of the guilt for the massive amounts of violence in the world today. Consider the copper we use every day. Do we know if that copper was mined by little-more-than-slave laborers who were forcefully recruited from their villages by government soldiers, ordered in by corrupt politicians working in collusion with major multinational corporations, supported by loans from the international banks, and all paid for by each of us every time we purchase a piece of electronics? In Christian circles that is called “systemic sin”, and it is a hard thing to get away from.

                 

                That is precisely why I support the creation of a democratic world government, and why I believe the United Nations, for all the good it tries to do, can not solve the problem, because it is too much a part of the status quo.

                 

                World Peace and Unity,

                Gary

                 

                Gary K. Shepherd

                 

                From: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com [mailto: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of ro-esp
                Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:45 AM
                To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [WorldCitizen] Re: who are the real terrorists ?

                 

                Quoting robert clark <robert.clark2342@ sbcglobal. net>:

                > The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the
                > United Nations documents I can no longer support this.

                support what? please elaborate

                > We should get as far away from the UN as possible.
                > They are the criminals who are behind the wars, famine and chaos
                > in the world 2day.

                My take on who is terrorist: it depends on your definition of terrorism.
                Deadly force against innocent civilians/passers- by should be in it.
                Creating an atmosfere of fear probably also.
                So who kills innocent civilians and creates an atmosfere of fear ?
                I only see big corporations and some governments (we don't have
                warlords where I reside)

                groetjes, Ronaldo

                --
                http://www.esperant o.net

              • robert clark
                I think we need to get out of the UN and stay as far as we can from it. They are the one s who promote the chaos in the world so by them actually having a
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 3, 2007
                  I think we need to get out of the UN and stay as far as we can from it.  They are the one's who promote the chaos in the world so by them actually having a declaration of human rights, thats about like China saying we all ow free speech.  NOT!

                  jodemas2 <jodemas2@...> wrote:
                  --- In WorldCitizen@ yahoogroups. com, robert clark
                  <robert.clark2342@ ...> wrote:

                  >Since the declaration of human rights is in the United Nations
                  documents I can no longer support this.

                  What is so wrong with the Declaration that you cannot support it?


                • John
                  Hi Sabzali, The military-industrial complex is behind it yes, yet it s also those who are mislead into carrying out what they want which is war. War itself
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 3, 2007
                    Hi Sabzali,
                     
                    The military-industrial complex is behind it yes, yet it's also those who are mislead into carrying out what they want which is war. War itself causes terror and war makes lots of money for some, who then spent money on warfare which makes more money! People are being used!  
                     
                    We can have ideals and can view ourselves as World Citizens but until we get rid of the corruption in 'high' places and until more people can see that they are being misled, the world will remain at war.
                     
                    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix    
                     
                    Of course, one answer is for everyone to simply refuse to take part in the war machine but most people are brainwashed so they cannot see through it.
                     
                    From childhood we are taught to compete against each other and to think of ourselves first. Then people are made afraid because of  'the terrorist threat' and people take authority as the truth (despite all the lies!), rather than having truth as the authority! 
                     
                    People can't think because they have been made afraid. Like lemmings, they go off to war which makes more money and gives more power to the 'elite' - who orchestrate the damn wars in the first place! This is now be plainly seen, thanks to Bush & Co. 
                     
                    It's about greed, it's about money, it's about the military-industrial complex, corporations and big business. Then who is behind the UN? On the surface the UN seems like a good idea but the UN is very corrupt. 
                     
                    Then comes the question, do we actually need government? The word 'government' comes from 'govern' which means to control and 'ment' means the mind, so government = mind control. This isn't just a play on words. They are there to control us and the way this is done is through the media and propaganda.
                     
                    Then think of the words 'collateral damage.' Have you ever wondered why 'collateral damage' used instead of saying that people were killed? Collateral is something which represents or is in the place of money. We are the means of making more money, we are the 'collateral' - hence the term 'collateral damage' is used when people are killed in wars.  
                     
                    Each country has its own government and we are given the impression that we need government to keep us from doing harm to the 'collateral' in that country - that's us, which they can use, to make more money; then of course there's something which makes lots of money and that's war - and there's even more money that can be made, if oil (or other resources) can be got as 'spoils' of war. 
                     
                    It is not in our true nature to seriously harm or kill others but after being conditioned to think in terms of 'us and them,' a person can join the forces and be further trained to kill people who they don't even know!  So do we need government? The truth is that it is mainly because from childhood we have been conditioned where our concepts, thoughts and feelings are manipulated that most people need govern-ment and laws to keep them in check. Like the war thing, the whole thing is a con and I myself feel I do not need laws as a deterrent nor do I need any government to tell me right from wrong but sadly some people do.  
                     
                     
                    John
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:37 PM
                    Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT

                    Dear John
                     The actual Terrorists of the World are / were the Industrialists of Weapons and Ammunitions.Are you agree?
                    Sabzali Khan
                    Author's of True Democracy for World Government

                    robert clark <robert.clark2342@...> wrote:
                    The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the United Nations documents I can no longer support this. We should get as far away from the UN as possible.
                    They are the criminals who are behind the wars, famine and chaos in the world 2day.

                    John <truthseeker. john@talktalk. net> wrote:
                    But who were/are the real terrorists?
                     
                    THINK!
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:05 AM
                    Subject: [WorldCitizen] DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT

                    A DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT IS NECESSARY TO END THE MENACE OF
                    TERRORISM.NATIONALI SM AND TERRORISM ARE TWO FACETS OF THE SAME COIN.MY
                    HEART FELT TRIBUTE TO THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES ON SEPTEMBER 9/11.



                    "I have believed that the only way peace can be achieved is through world government" (Jawaharal Nehru)

                    For more information: www.worldservice. org and info@worldservice. org
                     
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/WorldCitiz en/

                    <*> Your email settings:
                        Individual Email | Traditional

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                  • Michael Mitchell
                    I, too, believe the UN could be the body it was intended. Solution - an armed UN. The only armed body; to inforce its decisions and prevent such blood-shed as
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 4, 2007
                      I, too, believe the UN could be the body it was intended. Solution - an armed UN. The only armed body; to inforce its decisions and prevent such blood-shed as we now have.

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                      To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, August 3, 2007 2:57:20 AM
                      Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] Re: who are the real terrorists ?

                      I dont believe fault lies specificly with the United Nations.  Generally it is the lack of cooperation of the individual Nation States who are its members. 
                       
                      The United Nations inspectors urged the USA to NOT invad Iraq, but rather to extend negotiations further.  Yet the US decided to reject that decision and did what it wanted anyway.  In President Bush's speech to the American people before the invasion, he commented briefly that he would not let the opinion of third world countries (UN Members all) decide what was best for the American people.  We commited ourselves to war against UN recommendations.
                       
                      This seems to be common among most Nations these days.  They want the UN to look after refugees and health issues and so on, but they do not want the UN to determine any of their country's policy. in effect, "give us what we want, but don't tell us what to do."
                       
                      Personally I think the United nations has always been among the first to issue policies and declarations for the benefit of humanity, even though nation states did not implement them.  The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights is one of many such examples.
                       
                      WSA founder Gary Davis saw the beauty and greatness in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights and used it as a first building block to form the World Service Authority and to begin the hope for peaceful World Government.  Basicly it is always there under everything the WSA does and it is a foundation for this forum as well.
                       
                      Rivalry between individual Nation States is causing most of the suffering and inhumanity around the world today.
                       
                      Regards,
                       
                      Andres


                      ro-esp <ro-esp@...> wrote:
                      Quoting robert clark <robert.clark2342@ sbcglobal. net>:

                      > The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the
                      > United Nations documents I can no longer support this.

                      support what? please elaborate

                      > We should get as far away from the UN as possible.
                      > They are the criminals who are behind the wars, famine and chaos
                      > in the world 2day.

                      My take on who is terrorist: it depends on your definition of terrorism.
                      Deadly force against innocent civilians/passers- by should be in it.
                      Creating an atmosfere of fear probably also.
                      So who kills innocent civilians and creates an atmosfere of fear ?
                      I only see big corporations and some governments (we don't have
                      warlords where I reside)

                      groetjes, Ronaldo

                      --
                      http://www.esperant o.net


                      Building a website is a piece of cake.
                      Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.




                      Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                      Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
                    • jodemas2
                      ... it. They are the one s who promote the chaos in the world Exactly how do they do that? And would you say they do it more than, for example, the US? so by
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 4, 2007
                        --- In WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com, robert clark <robert.clark2342@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I think we need to get out of the UN and stay as far as we can from it. They are the one's who promote the chaos in the world

                        Exactly how do they do that?  And would you say they do it more than, for example, the US?

                        so by them actually having a declaration of human rights, thats about like China saying we all ow free speech. NOT!

                        So then it is not the content of the declaration that you oppose but rather who is promulgating it, yes?

                        >
                        > jodemas2 jodemas2@... wrote: --- In WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com, robert clark
                        > robert.clark2342@ wrote:
                        >
                        > >Since the declaration of human rights is in the United Nations
                        > documents I can no longer support this.
                        >
                        > What is so wrong with the Declaration that you cannot support it?
                        >
                      • Tim Randles
                        but who will own and control that army? What if it is a group of companies like Monstanto, Bechtel, KBR and these companies and boards take their marching
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 15, 2007
                          but who will own and control that army?

                          What if it is a group of companies like Monstanto, Bechtel, KBR and these companies and boards take their marching orders from one individual? We would be talking about Global Corporate facism?

                           If you think that local committees can express their will and have this global govenment act upon it, then just take a look at what has happened in Africa for the last couple hundred years.. corruption, military dictatorships, mass murder..

                          Amnesty International has said that socialist policy like this is a "Killing Machine"

                          One World government is the plan of the Global elite to control the masses.

                           
                          Cheers.. Tim


                          From: Michael Mitchell <tattootoo@...>
                          To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2007 4:05:29 AM
                          Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] Re: who are the real terrorists ?

                          I, too, believe the UN could be the body it was intended. Solution - an armed UN. The only armed body; to inforce its decisions and prevent such blood-shed as we now have.

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                          To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, August 3, 2007 2:57:20 AM
                          Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] Re: who are the real terrorists ?

                          I dont believe fault lies specificly with the United Nations.  Generally it is the lack of cooperation of the individual Nation States who are its members. 
                           
                          The United Nations inspectors urged the USA to NOT invad Iraq, but rather to extend negotiations further.  Yet the US decided to reject that decision and did what it wanted anyway.  In President Bush's speech to the American people before the invasion, he commented briefly that he would not let the opinion of third world countries (UN Members all) decide what was best for the American people.  We commited ourselves to war against UN recommendations.
                           
                          This seems to be common among most Nations these days.  They want the UN to look after refugees and health issues and so on, but they do not want the UN to determine any of their country's policy. in effect, "give us what we want, but don't tell us what to do."
                           
                          Personally I think the United nations has always been among the first to issue policies and declarations for the benefit of humanity, even though nation states did not implement them.  The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights is one of many such examples.
                           
                          WSA founder Gary Davis saw the beauty and greatness in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights and used it as a first building block to form the World Service Authority and to begin the hope for peaceful World Government.  Basicly it is always there under everything the WSA does and it is a foundation for this forum as well.
                           
                          Rivalry between individual Nation States is causing most of the suffering and inhumanity around the world today.
                           
                          Regards,
                           
                          Andres


                          ro-esp <ro-esp@...> wrote:
                          Quoting robert clark <robert.clark2342@ sbcglobal. net>:

                          > The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the
                          > United Nations documents I can no longer support this.

                          support what? please elaborate

                          > We should get as far away from the UN as possible.
                          > They are the criminals who are behind the wars, famine and chaos
                          > in the world 2day.

                          My take on who is terrorist: it depends on your definition of terrorism.
                          Deadly force against innocent civilians/passers- by should be in it.
                          Creating an atmosfere of fear probably also.
                          So who kills innocent civilians and creates an atmosfere of fear ?
                          I only see big corporations and some governments (we don't have
                          warlords where I reside)

                          groetjes, Ronaldo

                          --
                          http://www.esperant o.net


                          Building a website is a piece of cake.
                          Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.




                          Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                          Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                          Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
                        • ro-esp
                          ... Van: John Aan: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com ... ammunitions ... are mislead into carrying
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 15, 2007
                            -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                            Van: John <truthseeker.john@...>
                            Aan: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com <WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com>


                            > Hi Sabzali,

                            > > the actual terrorists of the world are the industrialists of weapons and
                            ammunitions

                            >The military-industrial complex is behind it yes, yet it's also those who
                            are mislead into carrying out what they > want which is war.

                            I think war isn't the goal, but rather the means

                            > War itself causes terror and war makes lots of money for some, who then
                            spent money on warfare which > makes more money!

                            War and people don't make money. Certain banks make money, by loaning out
                            more than they have

                            > People are being used!

                            you bet!

                            > We can have ideals and can view ourselves as World Citizens but until we
                            get rid of the corruption in 'high' > places and until more people can
                            see that they are being misled, the world will remain at war.

                            > When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know
                            peace. - Jimi Hendrix

                            I think it'll take more than that, getting over the actually existing (pun
                            intended) capitalism.
                            Also, I think lots of people already see they're being misled, but don't see
                            an exit or exactly how
                            they're being misled

                            > Of course, one answer is for everyone to simply refuse to take part in the
                            war machine

                            I don't see this as "simply". Things are so interconnected: banks and
                            corporations often invest in many things, some of which are hard to boycott.
                            Even pension-fundations invest in weapons and tobacco. Lots of
                            income-providers don't pay cash anymore, so you have to have a
                            bank-account - and the only clean/alternative-banks don't provide such
                            services (dutch example; triodos-bank doesn't even have an office in my
                            province for people to draw money, if they'd even provide this service)

                            > but most people are brainwashed so they cannot see through it.

                            > From childhood we are taught to compete against each other and to think of
                            ourselves first.

                            of course. That's the basis of capitalism

                            > People can't think because they have been made afraid.

                            stuffing them with alcohol, tabacco, commercials and "info" they've heard a
                            million times before also helps, as do lack of sleep and an unnecesarily
                            long working week..

                            > Then who is behind the UN?

                            idealistic politicians? eager civil servants (??)

                            > On the surface the UN seems like a good idea but the UN is very corrupt.

                            please elaborate

                            > Then comes the question, do we actually need government?

                            I'd say we need to _organise_ things, and some things on a larger scale than
                            street, village or municipality

                            > The word 'government' comes from 'govern' which means to control

                            could be

                            > and 'ment' means the mind, so government = mind control. This isn't just a
                            play on words.

                            then I'd like to know in which language "ment" means "mind". In french (one
                            of the two parentlanguages of modern english) "-ment" has the same function
                            as "-ly" in english

                            of course ;-) the dutch word "parlement" also comes from french, "parle"
                            being the stem of "to speak", and
                            "ment" being the stem of "to lie"


                            > They are there to control us and the way this is done is through the media
                            and propaganda.

                            > Then think of the words 'collateral damage.' Have you ever wondered why
                            'collateral damage' used instead > of saying that people were killed?
                            Collateral is something which represents or is in the place of money.

                            for non-anglo's:it's a bank-term. Collateral is what you lose if you or
                            someone else can't pay back a loan.
                            For instance, your house if you can't pay your mortgage. (correct me if I'm
                            wrong here)

                            It is not in our true nature to seriously harm or kill others

                            Indeed. According to "discovery channel" lots of armies have the problem
                            that soldiers don't shoot at the enemy, even in battle

                            > but after being conditioned to think in terms of 'us and them,' a person
                            can join the forces and be further > trained to kill people who they
                            don't even know!

                            Huh ? Do you think it's easier to kill someone you do know?

                            > So do we need government?

                            I guess it depends. Guidelines for behaviour can be convenient, especially
                            if there's a consensus about them.

                            > I myself feel I do not need laws as a deterrent

                            Indeed, a profound understanding of why things must be done in a certain way
                            is better/healthier than doing them a certain way just because the law tells
                            you to

                            groetjes, Ronaldo
                          • Gary Shepherd
                            Hi I understand and sympathize with your frustration with government, but I think it is useful to remember that government is a social tool, no different from
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 23, 2007

                              Hi

                              I understand and sympathize with your frustration with government, but I think it is useful to remember that government is a social tool, no different from a hammer. It can be used to drive a nail to build someone a house, or it can be used to bash someone’s brains in. In the current nationalist-militarist system, government has been mightily abused BUT IT DOESN’T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY. I live in a small city which has a government, but that government has never declared war on our neighboring cities, because making war is not within the power of the city government. The trick is to control just how much power governments have, and the way to do that is with a) specific written law limiting those powers (like constitutions) and b) societal expectations about just what governments are allowed to do.

                               

                              I admit I am not so sure, however, about the necessity of having corporations.

                               

                              World Peace and Unity,

                               

                              Gary K. Shepherd


                              From: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com [mailto: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of John
                              Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 8:35 PM
                              To: WorldCitizen@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT

                               

                              Hi Sabzali,

                               

                              The military-industrial complex is behind it yes, yet it's also those who are mislead into carrying out what they want which is war. War itself causes terror and war makes lots of money for some, who then spent money on warfare which makes more money! People are being used!  

                               

                              We can have ideals and can view ourselves as World Citizens but until we get rid of the corruption in 'high' places and until more people can see that they are being misled, the world will remain at war.

                               

                              When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix    

                               

                              Of course, one answer is for everyone to simply refuse to take part in the war machine but most people are brainwashed so they cannot see through it.

                               

                              From childhood we are taught to compete against each other and to think of ourselves first. Then people are made afraid because of  'the terrorist threat' and people take authority as the truth (despite all the lies!), rather than having truth as the authority! 

                               

                              People can't think because they have been made afraid. Like lemmings, they go off to war which makes more money and gives more power to the 'elite' - who orchestrate the damn wars in the first place! This is now be plainly seen, thanks to Bush & Co. 

                               

                              It's about greed, it's about money, it's about the military-industrial complex, corporations and big business. Then who is behind the UN? On the surface the UN seems like a good idea but the UN is very corrupt. 

                               

                              Then comes the question, do we actually need government? The word 'government' comes from 'govern' which means to control and 'ment' means the mind, so government = mind control. This isn't just a play on words. They are there to control us and the way this is done is through the media and propaganda.

                               

                              Then think of the words 'collateral damage.' Have you ever wondered why 'collateral damage' used instead of saying that people were killed? Collateral is something which represents or is in the place of money. We are the means of making more money, we are the 'collateral' - hence the term 'collateral damage' is used when people are killed in wars.  

                               

                              Each country has its own government and we are given the impression that we need government to keep us from doing harm to the 'collateral' in that country - that's us, which they can use, to make more money; then of course there's something which makes lots of money and that's war - and there's even more money that can be made, if oil (or other resources) can be got as 'spoils' of war. 

                               

                              It is not in our true nature to seriously harm or kill others but after being conditioned to think in terms of 'us and them,' a person can join the forces and be further trained to kill people who they don't even know!  So do we need government? The truth is that it is mainly because from childhood we have been conditioned where our concepts, thoughts and feelings are manipulated that most people need govern-ment and laws to keep them in check. Like the war thing, the whole thing is a con and I myself feel I do not need laws as a deterrent nor do I need any government to tell me right from wrong but sadly some people do.  

                               

                               

                              John

                               

                               

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:37 PM

                              Subject: Re: [WorldCitizen] DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT

                               

                              Dear John

                               The actual Terrorists of the World are / were the Industrialists of Weapons and Ammunitions. Are you agree?

                              Sabzali Khan

                              Author's of True Democracy for World Government

                              robert clark <robert.clark2342@ sbcglobal. net> wrote:

                              The United Nations. Since the declaration of human rights is in the United Nations documents I can no longer support this. We should get as far away from the UN as possible.

                              They are the criminals who are behind the wars, famine and chaos in the world 2day.

                              John <truthseeker. john@talktalk. net> wrote:

                              But who were/are the real terrorists?

                               

                              THINK!

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:05 AM

                              Subject: [WorldCitizen] DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT

                               

                              A DEMOCRATIC WORLD GOVERNMENT IS NECESSARY TO END THE MENACE OF
                              TERRORISM.NATIONALI SM AND TERRORISM ARE TWO FACETS OF THE SAME COIN.MY
                              HEART FELT TRIBUTE TO THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES ON SEPTEMBER 9/11.



                              "I have believed that the only way peace can be achieved is through world government" (Jawaharal Nehru)

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                            • ro-esp
                              Michael Mitchell wrote something like ... valid question ... global government act upon it, then just take a look at what has happened in Africa I m losing
                              Message 14 of 17 , Aug 23, 2007
                                Michael Mitchell wrote something like

                                >> the UN should be the only armed force

                                Tim Randles <erinmore69@...> replied:


                                > but who will own and control that army?


                                valid question

                                > What if it is a group of companies like Monstanto, Bechtel, KBR and
                                > these companies and boards take their marching orders from one
                                > individual? We would be talking about Global Corporate fascism?

                                > If you think that local committees can express their will and have this
                                global government act upon it, then just > take a look at what has happened
                                in Africa

                                I'm losing the thread here... were there ever local-councils in afrika that
                                had a global government obey them?

                                > for the last couple hundred years.. corruption, military dictatorships,
                                mass murder..

                                just like in other places and other times, where are you leading us?

                                > Amnesty International has said

                                where and when?

                                > that socialist policy like this is a "Killing Machine"

                                what "this" ?

                                > One World government is the plan of the Global elite to control the
                                masses.


                                _the_ plan ? As if they couldn't control masses without a world govt...

                                groetjes, Ronaldo
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