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Re: The False Compassion of the Left

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  • Robin Crane
    Robin Crane WWP Invitee (patriot451@gmail.com) I intended to give an example of how charitable giving is not fully counted by so-called studies such as Don
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 20 2:06 PM
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      Robin Crane WWP Invitee (patriot451@...) I intended to give an example of how charitable giving is not fully counted
      by so-called "studies" such as Don Divine sent around.

      I give a huge amount of my income to people and groups that cannot be
      deducted. Here are my final calculations:

      Church as % of income:
      7.7%

      Political contributions as % of
      income: 6.1%

      Personal gifts to immigrants as % of income: 27.6%

      Personal gifts to family & friends as % of income: 6.1%

      All Other Contributions as % of income: 2.6%

      Charitable contributions as % of income: 74.4%



      TAX DEDUCTIBLE AS % OF INCOME: 10.3%

      NON-TAX DEDUCTIBLE AS % OF INCOME: 64.1%

      Look at the last two lines. Only the 10.3% that I give to church and the
      2.6% that I give to 501(c)(3) organizations would show up in Don's cited
      study. The OTHER 64.1% of income that I give away won't be counted.

      [Moreover, what liberals and moderates willingly give away through taxes is
      a sign of true generosity. The whining and belly-aching and screaming that
      the Right does about taxes is a sign of selfishness. But that's a side
      issue.]

      In addition to the problems of capturing ALL giving, there's the difficulty
      of defining who's a liberal and who's a conservative. If not done
      carefully, the results will be meaningless.

      Conservatives tend to give to religious institutions, while liberals tend
      to give more to secular institutions. Religious institutions have a good
      deal going with the government, such that almost all their activities are
      captured as charity, even when the activities are largely political (viz.,
      Karl Rove's 501(c)(4) in last prez election).

      Moreover, at least some of the giving to churches is really quite
      appropriately seen as payment for services rendered to the giver, while
      giving to secular charities usually all goes for services that do NOT
      accrue to the giver, so can be seen as more truly generous and selfless.

      Other studies refute Don's assertions about which political identification
      gives more, for example:

      http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2012/10/18/who-really-gives-partisanship-and-charitable-giving-in-the-united-states/


      *Robin Crane*
      *========================================================*

      *"When scientific power outruns moral power,
      we end up with guided missiles and
      misguided men.”
      Martin Luther King, Jr., 1967 *

      *=========================================================*



      On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Robin Crane <patriot451@...> wrote:

      > GOETSCH'S whole argument is defeated by one fact: the data on which the
      > argument is based are highly incomplete and biased toward the rich.
      >
      > THICK ABOUT WHERE THE DATA COME FROM! Income tax returns, specifically
      > charitable deductions.
      >
      > People who don't itemized and their giving are not included. The giving
      > reported by the utwmizers has to be reduced by the amount if the tax
      > offset, 28% for top earners.
      >
      > Giving to other than formal organizations with tax deductible status is
      > NOT captured. I just did my taxes:
      > On Feb 19, 2013 9:47 PM, "MARK CARPENTER" <carpbear@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Robin:
      >>
      >> This is one of your very best posts; and you have described *to a 'T'*
      >> why I lump Don Divine in with the Shammaite Pharisees (who were the ones
      >> Jesus went after in his discourses against the Pharisees). The Shammaites
      >> were an absolute *horror*, and they ruled with an iron fist. The
      >> Hillelites were very much in line with Jesus' thinking; and they were also
      >> the group with whom Paul was affiliated. (Remember: at least three, and
      >> as many of six epistles attributed to Paul were not written by Paul at all.)
      >>
      >> Mark
      >>
      >> "It is better to vote for what you want and not get it
      >> than it is to vote for what you don't want and get it."
      >> --Eugene V. Debs
    • Dennis Helbig
      Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha i investigator and carpenter (helbigdennis@gmail.com) Let s hope FDR s Zionism is destroyed. It wasn t real concern anyway. It
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 21 3:27 AM
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        Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha'i investigator and carpenter (helbigdennis@...) Let's hope FDR's Zionism is destroyed. It wasn't real concern anyway. It
        was oppression by way of playing on the "poor me spirit". His Secretary of
        Labor was an Aynn Rand acolyte that was solely responsible for the entire
        New Deal agenda. Come on, I thought you had more sense.
      • Dennis Helbig
        Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha i investigator and carpenter (helbigdennis@gmail.com) It was coined in the Bible by the men of God. How dare you consider the
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 21 3:34 AM
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          Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha'i investigator and carpenter (helbigdennis@...) It was coined in the Bible by the men of God. How dare you consider the
          godless as the creators of Liberty. Abram was the first Libertarian. He
          answered to no government or any authority except his god. He saw, he took.
          And his god gave him success.
        • kurt31416
          Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@yahoo.com] FDR was a Libertarian, Dennis? Only if words have no meaning. And FDR wasn t much of a Zionist, since we pretty much
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 21 4:35 PM
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            Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@...] FDR was a Libertarian, Dennis? Only if words have no meaning. And FDR wasn't much of a Zionist, since we pretty much abandoned the Jews fleeing Hitler.

            Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha'i investigator and carpenter
            (helbigdennis@...) Let's hope FDR's Zionism is destroyed. It wasn't real
            concern anyway. It was oppression by way of playing on the "poor me spirit". His Secretary of Labor was an Aynn Rand acolyte that was solely responsible for the entire New Deal agenda. Come on, I thought you had more sense.
          • kurt31416
            Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@yahoo.com] FALSE, Dennis. From Genesis to Jesus, there are 1000 cases of supporting the poor, and/or opposing the rich. Need some
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 21 4:41 PM
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              Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@...] FALSE, Dennis. From Genesis to Jesus, there are 1000 cases of supporting the poor, and/or opposing the rich.

              Need some help locating them? Oh so easy to do, Dennis, if someone has a remote foggy clue what the hell is in the Bible.

              And the number of cases to the cntrary?

              Zero.

              0.

              1000 to 0.

              *****I defy you to point out an exception.

              Good luck, because it doesn't exist.
            • Dennis Helbig
              Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha i investigator and carpenter (helbigdennis@gmail.com) I don t think you fully understand the complexity of the world system
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 23 5:33 AM
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                Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha'i investigator and carpenter (helbigdennis@...) I don't think you fully understand the complexity of the world system
                implemented at Chicago in 1893. The boots in the dirt manager of the fair
                ended up as the Sec of Treasury that signed currency over to the
                independent contractor. Novus Ordo Seclorum was then added to currency,
                meaning it was the currency of world order.When FDR took office he set in
                motion a system of taxation based upon the system used in Israel/Babylon.
                Solomon not only charged other states to sell product but to also buy it.
                Charged people to inherit. Charged people to give. Sound familiar yet?

                Novus Ordo Seclorum is New World Order is Globalism is Zionism. Manure
                smells the same no matter if called excrement or shit.

                Sequester will accomplish one thing. Government Contractors. Contractors
                have to be paid. Contractors work for profit and taxes will be raised.
                These contracts will be open to anyone from anywhere to bid. Welcome to
                Solmon's Babylon.
              • Dennis
                Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha i investigator and carpenter (helbigdennis@gmail.com) There are 197 verses pertaining to the word poor. 35 are in the NT. 10 in
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 23 6:15 AM
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                  Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha'i investigator and carpenter (helbigdennis@...) There are 197 verses pertaining to the word poor. 35 are in the NT. 10
                  in the epistles. I've sent a png of Exodus 22:25 dealing with usery,
                  transliterated literally. In essence it states if you loan money to "my
                  people" and you are the reason "My People" are poor, you may not charge
                  usery.

                  If, in fact, the Constitution is based upon the law of Moses, then
                  charging usery to the poor is unlawful. But Zion passed a law to
                  prohibit lending money to the poor in order to eliminate a myriad of
                  small businessmen (farmers) in the 50s. This alone is sufficient to
                  condemn the Christian Nation because it has violated too many of these
                  commandments.

                  It would help to know what the comment was on.

                  Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@...] FALSE, Dennis. From Genesis to
                  Jesus, there are 1000 cases of supporting the poor, and/or opposing the
                  rich.

                  Need some help locating them? Oh so easy to do, Dennis, if someone has a remote foggy clue what the hell is in the Bible. And the number of cases to the contrary?

                  Zero.

                  0.

                  1000 to 0.

                  *****I defy you to point out an exception.

                  Good luck, because it doesn't exist.
                • Algae5636@...
                  Al J WWP Email Member and Baha i(Algae5636@aol.com ) Well said. A detail: The Great Seal of the US was added to the currency. The phrase Novus Ordo
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 23 9:04 AM
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                    Al J WWP Email Member and Baha'i(Algae5636@... ) Well said. A detail: The Great Seal of the US was added to the currency. The phrase "Novus Ordo Seclorum" is part of that Seal. It is thus misleading to say the phrase was added as though it were added all by itself.


                    Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha'i investigator and carpenter(helbigdennis@...) I don't think you fully understand the complexity of the world system implemented at Chicago in 1893. The boots in the dirt manager of the fair ended up as the Sec of Treasury that signed currency over to the independent contractor. Novus Ordo Seclorum was then added to currency, meaning it was the currency of world order.When FDR took office he set in motion a system of taxation based upon the system used in Israel/Babylon. Solomon not only charged other states to sell product but to also buy it. Charged people to inherit. Charged people to give. Sound familiar yet?

                    Novus Ordo Seclorum is New World Order is Globalism is Zionism. Manure
                    smells the same no matter if called excrement or shit.

                    Sequester will accomplish one thing. Government Contractors. Contractors have to be paid. Contractors work for profit and taxes will be raised. These contracts will be open to anyone from anywhere to bid. Welcome to Solmon's Babylon.
                  • Sarda Karaniwan
                    Sarda Karaniwan WWP Member (karaniwans@yahoo.com) The left advocates, legislates, and sometimes intimidates in its on-going attempts to guarantee equality of
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 25 5:29 AM
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                      Sarda Karaniwan WWP Member (karaniwans@...) "The left advocates, legislates, and sometimes intimidates in its on-going attempts to guarantee equality of outcome in society regardless of merit or effort. Anyone on the right who dares claim that an unproductive member of society deserves less than a productive member is quickly labeled hard-hearted or mean-spirited. The left makes no connection between contribution and reward. Leftists find nothing wrong with taking from a productive person and giving to an unproductive person, even one who has the potential to be productive but makes no effort to be. Socialists call this government-ordained theft redistribution of wealth, one of president Obama's favorite concepts. The radical left thinks it is unfair for a thrifty, diligent, self-reliant producer who pulls America's economic wagon to have more than a lazy, irresponsible, entitled person who just rides in the wagon. This is one of the main reasons for socialism's long and consistent record of failure."

                      This statement really makes me laugh. I used to be labeled as a leftist because of my principles, now I'm going to be labelled a rightist because of the same principles. False compassion, hypocrisy indeed. Both Left and Right are the same, and caught in the middle are the ordinary people who one day (and hopefully soon)will realize that this is neither a Leftist's or a Rightist's world, but the world of the ordinary people and that these two opposite political spectrum are just creating a big mess of this world, and one day the ordinary people will put themselves in charge and start to clean up this mess. And the Days of the Ordinary people have arrived.

                      -----sarda-----
                      The Ordinarian

                      Don Divine WWP Email Member (d3869@...) Most Effective Tool Used to Sell Socialism to Americans? Written on Wednesday, February 1, 2012 by David L. Goetsch
                    • kurt31416
                      Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@yahoo.com] Dennis, in the Torah/Old Testament, you not only can t charge interest on a loan, you can t accept collateral, and
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 25 7:20 AM
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                        Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@...] Dennis, in the Torah/Old Testament, you not only can't charge interest on a loan, you can't accept collateral, and have to forgive all loans every 7 years. And if it's a month before you have to forgive all loans, you still have to loan the money.

                        It's a lot more than the mention of the word poor, such as God destroying Sodom because it didn't help the poor (sex not mentioned). Sometimes it's "widows and orphans" etc. Yes, there really are about 1000 cases.

                        And 0 cases to the contrary.

                        Dennis Helbig WWP Member Baha'i investigator and carpenter (helbigdennis@...) There are 197 verses pertaining to the word poor. 35 are in the NT. 10 in the epistles. I've sent a png of Exodus 22:25 dealing with usery, transliterated literally. In essence it states if you loan money to "my people" and you are the reason "My People" are poor, you may not charge usery.

                        If, in fact, the Constitution is based upon the law of Moses, then charging usery to the poor is unlawful. But Zion passed a law to prohibit lending money to the poor in order to eliminate a myriad of small businessmen (farmers) in the 50s. This alone is sufficient to condemn the Christian Nation because it has violated too many of these commandments.

                        It would help to know what the comment was on.

                        Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@] FALSE, Dennis. From Genesis to Jesus, there are 1000 cases of supporting the poor, and/or opposing the rich.

                        Need some help locating them? Oh so easy to do, Dennis, if someone has a remote foggy clue what the hell is in the Bible. And the number of cases to the contrary?

                        Zero.

                        0.

                        1000 to 0.

                        *****I defy you to point out an exception.

                        Good luck, because it doesn't exist.
                      • kurt31416
                        Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@yahoo.com] Yeah, show me a pround leftist or rightist and I can show you someone totally under the control of the Good Ole Boys,
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 25 8:27 AM
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                          Kurt Pi WWP Member [kurt31416@...] Yeah, show me a pround leftist or rightist and I can show you someone totally under the control of the Good Ole Boys, with no opinions of their own.

                          Sarda Karaniwan WWP Member (karaniwans@...) "The left advocates,
                          legislates, and sometimes intimidates in its on-going attempts to guarantee
                          equality of outcome in society regardless of merit or effort. Anyone on the
                          right who dares claim that an unproductive member of society deserves less than
                          a productive member is quickly labeled hard-hearted or mean-spirited. The left
                          makes no connection between contribution and reward. Leftists find nothing wrong
                          with taking from a productive person and giving to an unproductive person, even
                          one who has the potential to be productive but makes no effort to be. Socialists
                          call this government-ordained theft redistribution of wealth, one of president
                          Obama's favorite concepts. The radical left thinks it is unfair for a thrifty,
                          diligent, self-reliant producer who pulls America's economic wagon to have more
                          than a lazy, irresponsible, entitled person who just rides in the wagon. This is
                          one of the main reasons for socialism's long and consistent record of failure."

                          This statement really makes me laugh. I used to be labeled as a leftist because
                          of my principles, now I'm going to be labelled a rightist because of the same
                          principles. False compassion, hypocrisy indeed. Both Left and Right are the
                          same, and caught in the middle are the ordinary people who one day (and
                          hopefully soon)will realize that this is neither a Leftist's or a Rightist's
                          world, but the world of the ordinary people and that these two opposite
                          political spectrum are just creating a big mess of this world, and one day the
                          ordinary people will put themselves in charge and start to clean up this mess.
                          And the Days of the Ordinary people have arrived.

                          -----sarda-----
                          The Ordinarian
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