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Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?

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  • Floyd
    From your reply post to Bo7b, Brian, are you agreeing that laws that enforce chattel slavery should be in use and enforced now? Interesting!! Floyd ... From:
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 23, 2014
      From your reply post to Bo7b, Brian, are you agreeing that laws that enforce "chattel slavery" should be in use and enforced now?
      Interesting!!


      Floyd








      -----Original Message-----
      From: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
      Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 4:59 pm
      Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?




      Guess what YOU don't get to decide what is moral Bob. We are not slaves Bob we are free to move about the world for the most part. NOBODY is forcing you to remain here yet you sit and whine even after admitting there is no other country worth going to that does not impose taxes on their citizens. Its just not good enough for Bob and because that is so anyone else who does not follow that line of thinking is not getting it. Meanwhile back at the ranch your whole hypothesis has yet to be proven out so you sit and crow yet have no example to offer to show your concept is viable.




      Until you "start building the free society along side the state" yes Bob you continue enforcing them.






      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      To: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
      Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 3:03 pm
      Subject: RE: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?






      Since “these laws have been set in place for a very long time”, we should continue to impose them on our fellow humans regardless of their immorality? The laws enforcing chattel slavery were in place for millennia, Brian. Wanna continue enforcing them? Laws permitting theft, murder, kidnapping if perpetrated by humans wearing the costumes provided by the State have been in place for as long as the State has existed. Is that good reason to continue enforcing them?

      --bob & lou

      From: cbhensler@... [mailto:cbhensler@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:20 AM
      To: bobalou@...; ozrkhllblly@...; pelli8@...; PoliticalForum@...; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: kokopelli_60@...
      Subject: Re: Brian: "who or what gets to define what is "right"? "

      Blah, blah, blah "In a free society" Your society is void of reality and based on best case scenarios with rational and reasonable ppl. Unfortunately there are a lot of unreasonable and irrational ppl out there. I have stated what I think is right, over, and over and over again. Paul follows the laws because these laws have been set in place for a very long time. Humans Bob, they created and run the govt you so despise. Let that one truly sink in.






      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      To: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
      Sent: Mon, Sep 22, 2014 11:10 pm
      Subject: Brian: "who or what gets to define what is "right"? "




      Far as I know, Brian, in a free society, you get to decide for yourself what’s right for you.





      For me, what’s “right” is what’s “moral” & what’s “moral” is any action that does not involve coercion (force or fraud).





      Care to share with us what’s “right” for you, Brian?





      I think Paul has claimed that what’s “right” for him is what’s “legal”, meaning, whatever the bureaucrat of the day sez is right.





      Correct, Paul?





      --bob





      From: cbhensler@... [mailto:cbhensler@...]

      Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 5:18 AM
      To: ozrkhllblly@...; pelli8@...; bobalou@...
      Cc: kokopelli_60@...
      Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars





      In short you are describing what makes us all human Floyd which is the ability to make mistakes and be "stupid" at times and the ability or inability to learn from same. We also have our own "answers" created by our own belief system so my question to you and anybody else interested in answering is who or what gets to define what is "right"? You have eloquently laid out your approach to this and rightfully admitted to the lack complete understanding as we all should, so agin how to attain true "enlightenment"?




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Floyd <ozrkhllblly@...>
      To: pelli8 <pelli8@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
      Sent: Thu, Sep 18, 2014 8:08 am
      Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars




      Congratulations, Paul, on having made it thus far in life. I, myself am coming up on 64 years of living in this world, and apparent reality.


      Agreed, that taxes are a part of the grand experiment of setting up and having a "society", but, having the amount of and reasons given for many of those taxes, is what I, and probably many others, have a major problem with and disagreement about. Speaking only for myself, I dislike and have little tolerance for "stupidity", and having done "stupid" things / actions in my own life, I work hard to learn from them and to stop and consider deeply to avoid making or committing more "stupid" decisions / actions. Unfortunately, I can not say the same about the majority of people in this country, from all of my observations. About all that I, or anyone else, for that matter, can do, is either to avoid or find a path around the "stupidity" caused by the masses.


      So, in that vein, what "logical" reason would there be for me, and others that think / believe the same, to participate in decisions / actions that can be perceived as "stupid" and harmful on many levels, not only in regards to my life , success, and happiness, but also for others.


      Correct, "complaining" accomplishes little, which is what I try to avoid, instead I try to point out to others, willing to listen or not, what is wrong, either in "thinking", "beliefs", but especially certain "actions", to at least attempt to correct or forestall deleterious results stemming from those areas. Yes, I can be mistaken or make mistakes, like everyone else,. I make NO claims to being or having "omniscience" or "omnipotence", instead, I can perceive when something is "not quite right" and try to determine what is the better way to go. That is why I will always continue to work and fight against that which tries to diminish or steal, my or others "liberty" and "freedom".


      Floyd



















      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; Floyd <ozrkhllblly@...>
      Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
      Sent: Wed, Sep 17, 2014 10:24 pm
      Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars


      #1. In other words taxation!
      Yes, I hate paying my taxes as well. I would rather I did not have to pay taxes
      and I would certainly support the candidate that promised to end all taxation if
      he/she were elected.
      But Let me interject some reality into all of this. If this is the candidate
      that you are waiting for before you cast a vote than I am suggesting you will be
      waiting a very long time before you ever cast a vote. In fact, it may be that
      before this candidate comes along you may NEVER cast a vote.
      death and Taxes my friend. I'm uncertain of your age but I'm 62.
      Death and taxes.... Two certainties of life that you might want to get used to.

      #2 For you, unlike some, you find it "morally" wrong to vote for a presumed
      "lesser evil" to win out over a presumed "greater evil". For me, I believe you
      are entitled to find something as evil or whatever way it is you want to find
      it. I certainly don't mean that as a slight, I'm just saying everyone may not
      find a thing the same way as you but you are certainly entitled to something any
      way you choose to find it. As you say, in your reckoning, one does not vote for
      "evil", one completely destroys "evil" so that "evil" has no place in the scheme
      of things and I agree with you. I think one of the biggest misconceptions you
      might have is believing everyone considers a thing as evil simply because you
      think it is.
      Does that make sense or resonate with you in any way? In other words liberty
      allows Americans to consider things the way they wish to consider them
      regardless of how you, or I, consider them.
      If you don't want to vote... DON'T VOTE!
      Plain and simple.
      But if you don't vote.... You can't complain about what you get.
      It's sort of like running a foot race. The race is not to the swift or the
      battle to the strong. There is never a guarantee that the best runner will
      always win the race. The only guarantee is that a person choosing to NOT run the
      race will NOT win!


      ---- Floyd <ozrkhllblly@...> wrote:
      > Very well, Paul,

      #1; The property that I am referring to is the physical "property" (money, land,
      etc.) that belongs to the individual, that is confiscated (ie taxes or
      otherwise) by the government, to fund wars, conflicts, and any other un
      Constitutional programs or agencies.

      #2; You are conflating the voting issue in part of your second paragraph and all
      of the third. Please explain to me just how do you determine that an individual
      is "complicit" in the election of a corrupt politician, by either not voting or
      by voting for the opposite candidate? For me, unlike some, I find it "morally"
      wrong to vote for a presumed "lesser evil" to win out over a presumed "greater
      evil". Either way, one is still voting for "evil". In my reckoning, one does not
      vote for "evil", one completely destroys "evil" so that "evil" has no place in
      the scheme of things.

      Floyd
      [Bo7b:] --------------------


      [Bo7b:]


      Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other.


      ~Oscar Ameringer, "the Mark Twain of American Socialism."





      "[J]ust because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right..."


      --Barack Hussein Obama


      (1961-) 44th President of the United States


      Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate





      --bob & lou




























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bob Wynman
      ... Thanks, Floyd. From: Floyd [mailto:ozrkhllblly@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 6:38 PM To: cbhensler@aol.com; bobalou@wynman.com;
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 23, 2014
        :)





        Thanks, Floyd.





        From: Floyd [mailto:ozrkhllblly@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 6:38 PM
        To: cbhensler@...; bobalou@...; pelli8@...; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: kokopelli_60@...
        Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?





        Why would I "need" or "must" define these terms as they apply to US citizens, Brian? I never stated such as you are implying. I simply asked you if you agree that "chattel slavery" laws should be enforced.


        All I was asking was, being as Bo7b pointed out that "chattel slavery" laws had been around for a long time, and in your "rebuttal" to Bo7b, you implied that you feel that all laws, "old or new", should remain being enforced, until Bo7b starts building the free society alongside of the state. If this is NOT what you are meaning or implying, then you have chosen your wording poorly.


        Going further along from there, you also stated that Bo7b does not have the "right" to decide what is "moral" or even "immoral". If that is the case, then the same applies to you, me, Paul, and everyone else. Then exactly WHO does have the Right to decide and say "this is moral" and "that is immoral"? You can not have it both ways, Brian.


        Floyd











        -----Original Message-----
        From: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >
        To: ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >; bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
        Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
        Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 7:08 pm
        Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?


        Please define these terms as they apply to US citizens.






        -----Original Message-----
        From: Floyd <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >
        To: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
        Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
        Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 8:40 pm
        Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?


        From your reply post to Bo7b, Brian, are you agreeing that laws that enforce "chattel slavery" should be in use and enforced now?
        Interesting!!


        Floyd








        -----Original Message-----
        From: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >
        To: bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> >; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> >; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
        Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
        Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 4:59 pm
        Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?


        Guess what YOU don't get to decide what is moral Bob. We are not slaves Bob we are free to move about the world for the most part. NOBODY is forcing you to remain here yet you sit and whine even after admitting there is no other country worth going to that does not impose taxes on their citizens. Its just not good enough for Bob and because that is so anyone else who does not follow that line of thinking is not getting it. Meanwhile back at the ranch your whole hypothesis has yet to be proven out so you sit and crow yet have no example to offer to show your concept is viable.





        Until you "start building the free society along side the state" yes Bob you continue enforcing them.






        -----Original Message-----
        From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >
        To: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> >; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> >; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
        Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
        Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 3:03 pm
        Subject: RE: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?


        Since “these laws have been set in place for a very long time”, we should continue to impose them on our fellow humans regardless of their immorality? The laws enforcing chattel slavery were in place for millennia, Brian. Wanna continue enforcing them? Laws permitting theft, murder, kidnapping if perpetrated by humans wearing the costumes provided by the State have been in place for as long as the State has existed. Is that good reason to continue enforcing them?





        --bob & lou





        From: cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> [mailto:cbhensler@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:20 AM
        To: bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> ; ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> ; pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> ; PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> ; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> ; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> ; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> ; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> ; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...>
        Subject: Re: Brian: "who or what gets to define what is "right"? "





        Blah, blah, blah "In a free society" Your society is void of reality and based on best case scenarios with rational and reasonable ppl. Unfortunately there are a lot of unreasonable and irrational ppl out there. I have stated what I think is right, over, and over and over again. Paul follows the laws because these laws have been set in place for a very long time. Humans Bob, they created and run the govt you so despise. Let that one truly sink in.



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >
        To: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> >; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> >; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
        Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
        Sent: Mon, Sep 22, 2014 11:10 pm
        Subject: Brian: "who or what gets to define what is "right"? "


        Far as I know, Brian, in a free society, you get to decide for yourself what’s right for you.





        For me, what’s “right” is what’s “moral” & what’s “moral” is any action that does not involve coercion (force or fraud).





        Care to share with us what’s “right” for you, Brian?





        I think Paul has claimed that what’s “right” for him is what’s “legal”, meaning, whatever the bureaucrat of the day sez is right.





        Correct, Paul?





        --bob





        From: cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> [mailto:cbhensler@...]

        Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 5:18 AM
        To: ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> ; pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> ; bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...>
        Cc: kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...>
        Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars





        In short you are describing what makes us all human Floyd which is the ability to make mistakes and be "stupid" at times and the ability or inability to learn from same. We also have our own "answers" created by our own belief system so my question to you and anybody else interested in answering is who or what gets to define what is "right"? You have eloquently laid out your approach to this and rightfully admitted to the lack complete understanding as we all should, so agin how to attain true "enlightenment"?


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Floyd <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >
        To: pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >
        Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
        Sent: Thu, Sep 18, 2014 8:08 am
        Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars



        Congratulations, Paul, on having made it thus far in life. I, myself am coming up on 64 years of living in this world, and apparent reality.


        Agreed, that taxes are a part of the grand experiment of setting up and having a "society", but, having the amount of and reasons given for many of those taxes, is what I, and probably many others, have a major problem with and disagreement about. Speaking only for myself, I dislike and have little tolerance for "stupidity", and having done "stupid" things / actions in my own life, I work hard to learn from them and to stop and consider deeply to avoid making or committing more "stupid" decisions / actions. Unfortunately, I can not say the same about the majority of people in this country, from all of my observations. About all that I, or anyone else, for that matter, can do, is either to avoid or find a path around the "stupidity" caused by the masses.


        So, in that vein, what "logical" reason would there be for me, and others that think / believe the same, to participate in decisions / actions that can be perceived as "stupid" and harmful on many levels, not only in regards to my life , success, and happiness, but also for others.


        Correct, "complaining" accomplishes little, which is what I try to avoid, instead I try to point out to others, willing to listen or not, what is wrong, either in "thinking", "beliefs", but especially certain "actions", to at least attempt to correct or forestall deleterious results stemming from those areas. Yes, I can be mistaken or make mistakes, like everyone else,. I make NO claims to being or having "omniscience" or "omnipotence", instead, I can perceive when something is "not quite right" and try to determine what is the better way to go. That is why I will always continue to work and fight against that which tries to diminish or steal, my or others "liberty" and "freedom".


        Floyd











        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >
        To: bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; Floyd <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >
        Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
        Sent: Wed, Sep 17, 2014 10:24 pm
        Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars


        #1. In other words taxation!
        Yes, I hate paying my taxes as well. I would rather I did not have to pay taxes
        and I would certainly support the candidate that promised to end all taxation if
        he/she were elected.
        But Let me interject some reality into all of this. If this is the candidate
        that you are waiting for before you cast a vote than I am suggesting you will be
        waiting a very long time before you ever cast a vote. In fact, it may be that
        before this candidate comes along you may NEVER cast a vote.
        death and Taxes my friend. I'm uncertain of your age but I'm 62.
        Death and taxes.... Two certainties of life that you might want to get used to.

        #2 For you, unlike some, you find it "morally" wrong to vote for a presumed
        "lesser evil" to win out over a presumed "greater evil". For me, I believe you
        are entitled to find something as evil or whatever way it is you want to find
        it. I certainly don't mean that as a slight, I'm just saying everyone may not
        find a thing the same way as you but you are certainly entitled to something any
        way you choose to find it. As you say, in your reckoning, one does not vote for
        "evil", one completely destroys "evil" so that "evil" has no place in the scheme
        of things and I agree with you. I think one of the biggest misconceptions you
        might have is believing everyone considers a thing as evil simply because you
        think it is.
        Does that make sense or resonate with you in any way? In other words liberty
        allows Americans to consider things the way they wish to consider them
        regardless of how you, or I, consider them.
        If you don't want to vote... DON'T VOTE!
        Plain and simple.
        But if you don't vote.... You can't complain about what you get.
        It's sort of like running a foot race. The race is not to the swift or the
        battle to the strong. There is never a guarantee that the best runner will
        always win the race. The only guarantee is that a person choosing to NOT run the
        race will NOT win!


        ---- Floyd <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> > wrote:
        > Very well, Paul,

        #1; The property that I am referring to is the physical "property" (money, land,
        etc.) that belongs to the individual, that is confiscated (ie taxes or
        otherwise) by the government, to fund wars, conflicts, and any other un
        Constitutional programs or agencies.

        #2; You are conflating the voting issue in part of your second paragraph and all
        of the third. Please explain to me just how do you determine that an individual
        is "complicit" in the election of a corrupt politician, by either not voting or
        by voting for the opposite candidate? For me, unlike some, I find it "morally"
        wrong to vote for a presumed "lesser evil" to win out over a presumed "greater
        evil". Either way, one is still voting for "evil". In my reckoning, one does not
        vote for "evil", one completely destroys "evil" so that "evil" has no place in
        the scheme of things.

        Floyd
        [Bo7b:] --------------------


        [Bo7b:]


        Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other.


        ~Oscar Ameringer, "the Mark Twain of American Socialism."





        "[J]ust because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right..."


        --Barack Hussein Obama


        (1961-) 44th President of the United States


        Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate





        --bob & lou











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • <pelli8@...>
        Are you saying that the law allowing me to own my chattel slaves is bad? How am I to make it if I have to release my slaves? Get real. Are you willing to free
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 23, 2014
          Are you saying that the law allowing me to own my chattel slaves is bad?
          How am I to make it if I have to release my slaves? Get real. Are you willing to free your slaves if they take this law off the books? I don't think so.

          By the way Floyd, for the record, how many chattel slaves do you own presently?
          I have six but thinking about picking up a couple extra just in case. They're having a 2 for 1 sale next week so now is as good a time as any I suppose. Some of mine are getting kinda old and you know how that is.
          So how many do you have?


          ---- Floyd <ozrkhllblly@...> wrote:
          > Why would I "need" or "must" define these terms as they apply to US citizens, Brian? I never stated such as you are implying. I simply asked you if you agree that "chattel slavery" laws should be enforced.


          All I was asking was, being as Bo7b pointed out that "chattel slavery" laws had been around for a long time, and in your "rebuttal" to Bo7b, you implied that you feel that all laws, "old or new", should remain being enforced, until Bo7b starts building the free society alongside of the state. If this is NOT what you are meaning or implying, then you have chosen your wording poorly.


          Going further along from there, you also stated that Bo7b does not have the "right" to decide what is "moral" or even "immoral". If that is the case, then the same applies to you, me, Paul, and everyone else. Then exactly WHO does have the Right to decide and say "this is moral" and "that is immoral"? You can not have it both ways, Brian.


          Floyd











          -----Original Message-----
          From: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          To: ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
          Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 7:08 pm
          Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?




          Please define these terms as they apply to US citizens.






          -----Original Message-----
          From: Floyd <ozrkhllblly@...>
          To: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
          Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 8:40 pm

          Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?




          From your reply post to Bo7b, Brian, are you agreeing that laws that enforce "chattel slavery" should be in use and enforced now?
          Interesting!!


          Floyd








          -----Original Message-----
          From: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
          Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 4:59 pm
          Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?




          Guess what YOU don't get to decide what is moral Bob. We are not slaves Bob we are free to move about the world for the most part. NOBODY is forcing you to remain here yet you sit and whine even after admitting there is no other country worth going to that does not impose taxes on their citizens. Its just not good enough for Bob and because that is so anyone else who does not follow that line of thinking is not getting it. Meanwhile back at the ranch your whole hypothesis has yet to be proven out so you sit and crow yet have no example to offer to show your concept is viable.




          Until you "start building the free society along side the state" yes Bob you continue enforcing them.






          -----Original Message-----
          From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
          To: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
          Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 3:03 pm
          Subject: RE: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?






          Since “these laws have been set in place for a very long time”, we should continue to impose them on our fellow humans regardless of their immorality? The laws enforcing chattel slavery were in place for millennia, Brian. Wanna continue enforcing them? Laws permitting theft, murder, kidnapping if perpetrated by humans wearing the costumes provided by the State have been in place for as long as the State has existed. Is that good reason to continue enforcing them?

          --bob & lou

          From: cbhensler@... [mailto:cbhensler@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:20 AM
          To: bobalou@...; ozrkhllblly@...; pelli8@...; PoliticalForum@...; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: kokopelli_60@...
          Subject: Re: Brian: "who or what gets to define what is "right"? "

          Blah, blah, blah "In a free society" Your society is void of reality and based on best case scenarios with rational and reasonable ppl. Unfortunately there are a lot of unreasonable and irrational ppl out there. I have stated what I think is right, over, and over and over again. Paul follows the laws because these laws have been set in place for a very long time. Humans Bob, they created and run the govt you so despise. Let that one truly sink in.






          -----Original Message-----
          From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
          To: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
          Sent: Mon, Sep 22, 2014 11:10 pm
          Subject: Brian: "who or what gets to define what is "right"? "




          Far as I know, Brian, in a free society, you get to decide for yourself what’s right for you.





          For me, what’s “right” is what’s “moral” & what’s “moral” is any action that does not involve coercion (force or fraud).





          Care to share with us what’s “right” for you, Brian?





          I think Paul has claimed that what’s “right” for him is what’s “legal”, meaning, whatever the bureaucrat of the day sez is right.





          Correct, Paul?





          --bob






          From: cbhensler@... [mailto:cbhensler@...]
          Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 5:18 AM
          To: ozrkhllblly@...; pelli8@...; bobalou@...
          Cc: kokopelli_60@...
          Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars





          In short you are describing what makes us all human Floyd which is the ability to make mistakes and be "stupid" at times and the ability or inability to learn from same. We also have our own "answers" created by our own belief system so my question to you and anybody else interested in answering is who or what gets to define what is "right"? You have eloquently laid out your approach to this and rightfully admitted to the lack complete understanding as we all should, so agin how to attain true "enlightenment"?




          -----Original Message-----
          From: Floyd <ozrkhllblly@...>
          To: pelli8 <pelli8@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
          Sent: Thu, Sep 18, 2014 8:08 am
          Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars




          Congratulations, Paul, on having made it thus far in life. I, myself am coming up on 64 years of living in this world, and apparent reality.


          Agreed, that taxes are a part of the grand experiment of setting up and having a "society", but, having the amount of and reasons given for many of those taxes, is what I, and probably many others, have a major problem with and disagreement about. Speaking only for myself, I dislike and have little tolerance for "stupidity", and having done "stupid" things / actions in my own life, I work hard to learn from them and to stop and consider deeply to avoid making or committing more "stupid" decisions / actions. Unfortunately, I can not say the same about the majority of people in this country, from all of my observations. About all that I, or anyone else, for that matter, can do, is either to avoid or find a path around the "stupidity" caused by the masses.


          So, in that vein, what "logical" reason would there be for me, and others that think / believe the same, to participate in decisions / actions that can be perceived as "stupid" and harmful on many levels, not only in regards to my life , success, and happiness, but also for others.


          Correct, "complaining" accomplishes little, which is what I try to avoid, instead I try to point out to others, willing to listen or not, what is wrong, either in "thinking", "beliefs", but especially certain "actions", to at least attempt to correct or forestall deleterious results stemming from those areas. Yes, I can be mistaken or make mistakes, like everyone else,. I make NO claims to being or having "omniscience" or "omnipotence", instead, I can perceive when something is "not quite right" and try to determine what is the better way to go. That is why I will always continue to work and fight against that which tries to diminish or steal, my or others "liberty" and "freedom".


          Floyd



















          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
          To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; Floyd <ozrkhllblly@...>
          Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>
          Sent: Wed, Sep 17, 2014 10:24 pm
          Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars


          #1. In other words taxation!
          Yes, I hate paying my taxes as well. I would rather I did not have to pay taxes
          and I would certainly support the candidate that promised to end all taxation if
          he/she were elected.
          But Let me interject some reality into all of this. If this is the candidate
          that you are waiting for before you cast a vote than I am suggesting you will be
          waiting a very long time before you ever cast a vote. In fact, it may be that
          before this candidate comes along you may NEVER cast a vote.
          death and Taxes my friend. I'm uncertain of your age but I'm 62.
          Death and taxes.... Two certainties of life that you might want to get used to.

          #2 For you, unlike some, you find it "morally" wrong to vote for a presumed
          "lesser evil" to win out over a presumed "greater evil". For me, I believe you
          are entitled to find something as evil or whatever way it is you want to find
          it. I certainly don't mean that as a slight, I'm just saying everyone may not
          find a thing the same way as you but you are certainly entitled to something any
          way you choose to find it. As you say, in your reckoning, one does not vote for
          "evil", one completely destroys "evil" so that "evil" has no place in the scheme
          of things and I agree with you. I think one of the biggest misconceptions you
          might have is believing everyone considers a thing as evil simply because you
          think it is.
          Does that make sense or resonate with you in any way? In other words liberty
          allows Americans to consider things the way they wish to consider them
          regardless of how you, or I, consider them.
          If you don't want to vote... DON'T VOTE!
          Plain and simple.
          But if you don't vote.... You can't complain about what you get.
          It's sort of like running a foot race. The race is not to the swift or the
          battle to the strong. There is never a guarantee that the best runner will
          always win the race. The only guarantee is that a person choosing to NOT run the
          race will NOT win!


          ---- Floyd <ozrkhllblly@...> wrote:
          > Very well, Paul,

          #1; The property that I am referring to is the physical "property" (money, land,
          etc.) that belongs to the individual, that is confiscated (ie taxes or
          otherwise) by the government, to fund wars, conflicts, and any other un
          Constitutional programs or agencies.

          #2; You are conflating the voting issue in part of your second paragraph and all
          of the third. Please explain to me just how do you determine that an individual
          is "complicit" in the election of a corrupt politician, by either not voting or
          by voting for the opposite candidate? For me, unlike some, I find it "morally"
          wrong to vote for a presumed "lesser evil" to win out over a presumed "greater
          evil". Either way, one is still voting for "evil". In my reckoning, one does not
          vote for "evil", one completely destroys "evil" so that "evil" has no place in
          the scheme of things.

          Floyd
          [Bo7b:] --------------------


          [Bo7b:]


          Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other.


          ~Oscar Ameringer, "the Mark Twain of American Socialism."





          "[J]ust because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right..."


          --Barack Hussein Obama


          (1961-) 44th President of the United States


          Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate





          --bob & lou
        • Bob Wynman
          From: cbhensler@aol.com [mailto:cbhensler@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 8:17 AM To: ozrkhllblly@aol.com Cc: bobalou@wynman.com;
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 24, 2014
            From: cbhensler@... [mailto:cbhensler@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 8:17 AM
            To: ozrkhllblly@...
            Cc: bobalou@...; pelli8@...; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com; kokopelli_60@...
            Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?





            First of all you must not or do not need to do anything as I never implied you should. I asked you to define something.........asked. There is a distinction to be made





            Secondly it seems I have not chosen my words poorly as much as you have chosen them for me. It is possible that there is either a reading comprehension issue or you are simply attempting to set up false constructs so you can more easily knock them down?





            It's quite simple Floyd, laws exist that's just reality and until you, we, them, those ppl, us, the others, can change that we have nothing left to do but deal with the here and now.....you know, reality. But you have no say because you don't even vote. Which really translates to I don't vote but by not voting I vote.


            --Not voting is a vote for “none of the above”, which would always be my favorite option it it’s ever offered. -- bob





            Bob states incessantly the ONLY way to fix things is to build the "free society along side the state" Yet he and his like minded friends have not done so thus far.





            Please include any post and or sentence, reference in which I try and define moral or immoral? Of course the same applies to us Floyd that is exactly my point. Who died and left Bob boss? Laws exist as laid out by our founders. Were they setting moral standards?




            Sent from my iPad




            On Sep 23, 2014, at 9:37 PM, Floyd <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> > wrote:


            Why would I "need" or "must" define these terms as they apply to US citizens, Brian? I never stated such as you are implying. I simply asked you if you agree that "chattel slavery" laws should be enforced.


            All I was asking was, being as Bo7b pointed out that "chattel slavery" laws had been around for a long time, and in your "rebuttal" to Bo7b, you implied that you feel that all laws, "old or new", should remain being enforced, until Bo7b starts building the free society alongside of the state. If this is NOT what you are meaning or implying, then you have chosen your wording poorly.


            Going further along from there, you also stated that Bo7b does not have the "right" to decide what is "moral" or even "immoral". If that is the case, then the same applies to you, me, Paul, and everyone else. Then exactly WHO does have the Right to decide and say "this is moral" and "that is immoral"? You can not have it both ways, Brian.


            Floyd











            -----Original Message-----
            From: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >
            To: ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >; bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
            Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
            Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 7:08 pm
            Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?


            Please define these terms as they apply to US citizens.






            -----Original Message-----
            From: Floyd <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >
            To: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
            Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
            Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 8:40 pm
            Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?


            From your reply post to Bo7b, Brian, are you agreeing that laws that enforce "chattel slavery" should be in use and enforced now?
            Interesting!!


            Floyd








            -----Original Message-----
            From: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >
            To: bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> >; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> >; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
            Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
            Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 4:59 pm
            Subject: Re: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?


            Guess what YOU don't get to decide what is moral Bob. We are not slaves Bob we are free to move about the world for the most part. NOBODY is forcing you to remain here yet you sit and whine even after admitting there is no other country worth going to that does not impose taxes on their citizens. Its just not good enough for Bob and because that is so anyone else who does not follow that line of thinking is not getting it. Meanwhile back at the ranch your whole hypothesis has yet to be proven out so you sit and crow yet have no example to offer to show your concept is viable.





            Until you "start building the free society along side the state" yes Bob you continue enforcing them.






            -----Original Message-----
            From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >
            To: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> >; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> >; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
            Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
            Sent: Tue, Sep 23, 2014 3:03 pm
            Subject: RE: Brian: "Law is Good 'cause It's Old??!?


            Since “these laws have been set in place for a very long time”, we should continue to impose them on our fellow humans regardless of their immorality? The laws enforcing chattel slavery were in place for millennia, Brian. Wanna continue enforcing them? Laws permitting theft, murder, kidnapping if perpetrated by humans wearing the costumes provided by the State have been in place for as long as the State has existed. Is that good reason to continue enforcing them?





            --bob & lou





            From: cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> [mailto:cbhensler@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:20 AM
            To: bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> ; ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> ; pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> ; PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> ; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> ; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> ; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> ; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> ; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
            Cc: kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...>
            Subject: Re: Brian: "who or what gets to define what is "right"? "





            Blah, blah, blah "In a free society" Your society is void of reality and based on best case scenarios with rational and reasonable ppl. Unfortunately there are a lot of unreasonable and irrational ppl out there. I have stated what I think is right, over, and over and over again. Paul follows the laws because these laws have been set in place for a very long time. Humans Bob, they created and run the govt you so despise. Let that one truly sink in.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >
            To: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; ozrkhllblly <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >; pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> >; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> >; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
            Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
            Sent: Mon, Sep 22, 2014 11:10 pm
            Subject: Brian: "who or what gets to define what is "right"? "


            Far as I know, Brian, in a free society, you get to decide for yourself what’s right for you.





            For me, what’s “right” is what’s “moral” & what’s “moral” is any action that does not involve coercion (force or fraud).





            Care to share with us what’s “right” for you, Brian?





            I think Paul has claimed that what’s “right” for him is what’s “legal”, meaning, whatever the bureaucrat of the day sez is right.





            Correct, Paul?





            --bob





            From: cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> [mailto:cbhensler@...]
            Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 5:18 AM
            To: ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> ; pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> ; bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...>
            Cc: kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...>
            Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars





            In short you are describing what makes us all human Floyd which is the ability to make mistakes and be "stupid" at times and the ability or inability to learn from same. We also have our own "answers" created by our own belief system so my question to you and anybody else interested in answering is who or what gets to define what is "right"? You have eloquently laid out your approach to this and rightfully admitted to the lack complete understanding as we all should, so agin how to attain true "enlightenment"?


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Floyd <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >
            To: pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >; bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >
            Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
            Sent: Thu, Sep 18, 2014 8:08 am
            Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars


            Congratulations, Paul, on having made it thus far in life. I, myself am coming up on 64 years of living in this world, and apparent reality.


            Agreed, that taxes are a part of the grand experiment of setting up and having a "society", but, having the amount of and reasons given for many of those taxes, is what I, and probably many others, have a major problem with and disagreement about. Speaking only for myself, I dislike and have little tolerance for "stupidity", and having done "stupid" things / actions in my own life, I work hard to learn from them and to stop and consider deeply to avoid making or committing more "stupid" decisions / actions. Unfortunately, I can not say the same about the majority of people in this country, from all of my observations. About all that I, or anyone else, for that matter, can do, is either to avoid or find a path around the "stupidity" caused by the masses.


            So, in that vein, what "logical" reason would there be for me, and others that think / believe the same, to participate in decisions / actions that can be perceived as "stupid" and harmful on many levels, not only in regards to my life , success, and happiness, but also for others.


            Correct, "complaining" accomplishes little, which is what I try to avoid, instead I try to point out to others, willing to listen or not, what is wrong, either in "thinking", "beliefs", but especially certain "actions", to at least attempt to correct or forestall deleterious results stemming from those areas. Yes, I can be mistaken or make mistakes, like everyone else,. I make NO claims to being or having "omniscience" or "omnipotence", instead, I can perceive when something is "not quite right" and try to determine what is the better way to go. That is why I will always continue to work and fight against that which tries to diminish or steal, my or others "liberty" and "freedom".


            Floyd











            -----Original Message-----
            From: pelli8 <pelli8@... <mailto:pelli8@...> >
            To: bobalou <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >; cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; Floyd <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> >
            Cc: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@... <mailto:kokopelli_60@...> >
            Sent: Wed, Sep 17, 2014 10:24 pm
            Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars


            #1. In other words taxation!
            Yes, I hate paying my taxes as well. I would rather I did not have to pay taxes
            and I would certainly support the candidate that promised to end all taxation if
            he/she were elected.
            But Let me interject some reality into all of this. If this is the candidate
            that you are waiting for before you cast a vote than I am suggesting you will be
            waiting a very long time before you ever cast a vote. In fact, it may be that
            before this candidate comes along you may NEVER cast a vote.
            death and Taxes my friend. I'm uncertain of your age but I'm 62.
            Death and taxes.... Two certainties of life that you might want to get used to.

            #2 For you, unlike some, you find it "morally" wrong to vote for a presumed
            "lesser evil" to win out over a presumed "greater evil". For me, I believe you
            are entitled to find something as evil or whatever way it is you want to find
            it. I certainly don't mean that as a slight, I'm just saying everyone may not
            find a thing the same way as you but you are certainly entitled to something any
            way you choose to find it. As you say, in your reckoning, one does not vote for
            "evil", one completely destroys "evil" so that "evil" has no place in the scheme
            of things and I agree with you. I think one of the biggest misconceptions you
            might have is believing everyone considers a thing as evil simply because you
            think it is.
            Does that make sense or resonate with you in any way? In other words liberty

            allows Americans to consider things the way they wish to consider them
            regardless of how you, or I, consider them.
            If you don't want to vote... DON'T VOTE!
            Plain and simple.
            But if you don't vote.... You can't complain about what you get.
            It's sort of like running a foot race. The race is not to the swift or the
            battle to the strong. There is never a guarantee that the best runner will
            always win the race. The only guarantee is that a person choosing to NOT run the
            race will NOT win!


            ---- Floyd <ozrkhllblly@... <mailto:ozrkhllblly@...> > wrote:
            > Very well, Paul,

            #1; The property that I am referring to is the physical "property" (money, land,
            etc.) that belongs to the individual, that is confiscated (ie taxes or
            otherwise) by the government, to fund wars, conflicts, and any other un
            Constitutional programs or agencies.

            #2; You are conflating the voting issue in part of your second paragraph and all
            of the third. Please explain to me just how do you determine that an individual
            is "complicit" in the election of a corrupt politician, by either not voting or
            by voting for the opposite candidate? For me, unlike some, I find it "morally"
            wrong to vote for a presumed "lesser evil" to win out over a presumed "greater
            evil". Either way, one is still voting for "evil". In my reckoning, one does not
            vote for "evil", one completely destroys "evil" so that "evil" has no place in
            the scheme of things.

            Floyd
            [Bo7b:] --------------------


            [Bo7b:]


            Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other.


            ~Oscar Ameringer, "the Mark Twain of American Socialism."





            "[J]ust because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right..."


            --Barack Hussein Obama


            (1961-) 44th President of the United States


            Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate





            --bob & lou













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