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RE: Paul on Opinions & Wars

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  • Bob Wynman
    Paul, re: In order to convince you that Brian and I are not stealing your property and spending it on a war what MUST I do? You & Brian are far too
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 16, 2014
      Paul, re: " In order to convince you that Brian and I are not stealing your property and spending it on a war what "MUST" I do?"


      You & Brian are far too civilized to be stealing anyone's property yourselves. Civilized people don't steal their neighbors property and kill innocent people around the world themselves. Instead, in secret, the appoint agents of the State to do their stealing and killing for them. This is the process (aka "voting") used by "responsible citizens" to get their stealing done to finance their wars and other destructive bureaucratic schemes.


      Perhaps you & Brian have never participated in that process, 'tho we suspect you have, for those that don't participate are called "irresponsible citizens" & you're surely not that, are you?


      --bob & lou


      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8@... [mailto:pelli8@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:44 AM
      To: kokopelli_60@...; bobalou@...; cbhensler@...

      Subject: Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars


      God Almighty.... Brian, there is hope for you yet!
      Thank you Brian....
      EXACTLY!
      Frustration does not even begin to describe Bo7b's diatribe.


      ""STEALING PROPERTY" to fund OUR wars."
      Say what?
      Alright... Let me state at this juncture that if someone is fighting a war and using my name I want to know about it because if I fight a war I want to get paid for it and there ain't been no war check showing up in the mail with my name on it!


      Seriously... Agreed, Bo7b ... NONE of us has the right to impose our opinion on others (eg, I do not have the right to steal your property and kidnap your kids to create a war in Ghana or the Galapagos for some noble purpose of mine.
      And for the record Bo7b... I'm not doing that!
      Where are you getting your information suggesting I am doing that?



      "And you & Brian have no right to steal my property to fund your wars in the Middle East)."


      LOL.... Bo7b, my door is open and you can stop by my house at any time and check both my garage and basement. I am not now or have I ever been in possession of your property. If someone is stealing your property you should call the police and make a report.... Seriously!
      I have no war going in the middle East nor am I aware of Brian having such.


      Let's go this route Bo7b. In order to convince you that Brian and I are not stealing your property and spending it on a war what "MUST" I do?


      OH, and Brian.
      Did you read my other post where I wrote that some here harbor an opinion that my beliefs are complicity in a system that hinders their freedom.
      Does this post help explain myself a bit better?
      I do not believe Bo7b is trying to deny me any right. As I said in the other post, I do believe Bo7b is attempting to define what everyone's rights are.



      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > Bob my first reaction to this post was one of frustration so I saved it then came back. Now I approach it with the tone and level of which it deserves. I have to wonder why you continue on with your ruse. Much like Pelli and his "must" thing you continue this illusion that you are somehow different from just about everyone else in this country. Do you honestly think because you complain about the system you are not part of it and if so how does that work exactly?You pay taxes so you like everybody else are "STEALING PROPERTY" to fund OUR wars. I do not agree with the wars Bob so using your errant logic I am not a part. Like magic if I disagree with them I am not playing in. I mean that sounds fantastic and miraculous but lacks reality. In short but remaining in the US you are just as much a part as every other tax payer/consumer. Welcome to the real world Bob.






      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      To: pelli8 <pelli8@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 7:27 pm
      Subject: RE: Paul on Opinions & Wars




      --Agreed, Paul ... and NONE of us has the right to impose our opinion on others (eg, I do not have the right to steal your property and kidnap your kids to create a war in Ghana or the Galapagos for some noble purpose of mine. And you & Brian have no right to steal my property to fund your wars in the Middle East).


      --bob


      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8@... [mailto:pelli8@...]
      Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 4:01 PM
      To: kokopelli_60@...; bobalou@...; cbhensler@...
      Subject: Re: Paul on US Aggression


      "Perhaps that's correct for Brian. My opinion is that the USG had no business sending trained killers to any of those places."


      I'm sure! My opinion is that you, me and Brian are all entitled to our opinion.
      And I'm also of the opinion there are some that want to tell all of us what our opinion must be.



      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > Perhaps it is not even remotely correct for Brian






      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      To: pelli8 <pelli8@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>;
      Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>;
      Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 3:11 pm
      Subject: RE: Paul on US Aggression




      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8@... [mailto:pelli8@...]
      Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:11 AM
      To: kokopelli_60@...; bobalou@...; cbhensler@...
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept


      "So again what does 9/11 have to do with it Pelli?"


      It's quite simple really. But, in saying that, I don't really believe your political leanings will allow you to accept my rationale.
      In 1941 Americans went to war against the Japanese.
      Did all the Japanese people bomb Pearl Harbor?
      Then why on earth did we go to war with all the Japanese people?
      [Bo7b:]
      [Bo7b:] -- My understanding is that because Churchill & Wilson wanted the USA in the war on the side of the Allies, they provoked the Jap gov't to attack by means of acts of war against Japan (shipping blockades, trade embargoes, etc.).


      "We" did not go to war against Japanese people, that was our out-of-control US "government" that did that, including war against loyal US citizens, some of whom who had lived productively and peacefully in the US for several generations (you've heard of Manzanar, Poston, etc, yes?). -- bob


      Were towel heads responsible for 9/11?
      Yes or No?
      [Bo7b:]
      --We'll probably never know for sure. My suspicion is NO. -- bob


      Were all the people of Iraq responsible for beheading those journalists? Then why is Bronco Bama sending advisors to Iraq?
      [Bo7b:]
      --Most likely for the purpose of expanding the power of the out-of-control US "government" and to attempt to somehow glorify the name of BO in the future history books. -- bob


      The answer is because that's where ISIS is!
      Someone asked John Dillinger once why he robbed banks.
      His reply was,
      "That's where the money is"!
      And I imagine it was wrong for George Bush to send advisors to Iraq but perfectly acceptable for Bronco Bama to send advisors to Iraq because, as you said, Bush was wrong and Bronco is right.
      Is that not correct?
      [Bo7b:]
      --Perhaps that's correct for Brian. My opinion is that the USG had no business sending trained killers to any of those places.


      --bob


      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > You stated
      "As you said, It was not until after the beheadings of those two men that ppl began to revert to desired military action in the ME. The thousands of folks that were murdered on this date 13 years ago was not quite enough I suppose.
      But that old bronco bama ia a helluva guy and I agree he actually thinks before he acts"....
      So again what does 9/11 have to do with it Pelli? I think it kind of cheap to use that horrific day to simply pad ones rant, how about you?




      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Sent: Sat, Sep 13, 2014 9:34 am
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




      In regards to me mistakenly thinking Iraq had anything to do 9/11?
      To paraphrase:
      You stated that Iraq is only one part of the ME and I replied, Of course!
      Or in other words, I agree.
      Saddam (Iraq)was only one part of the ME and a major one.
      ISIS is also a part.
      Hamas is a part!
      And Al Qaeda is a part!
      There are probably some good parts as well but I can't think of any.




      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > What is your point, you seem to have gotten off track.






      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
      cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 9:10 am
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




      Of course!
      Saddam was a major part of the ME.
      ISIS is one part of the ME as well.
      Hamas is part!
      Al Qaeda is part!
      There are probably some good parts as well but I can't think of any at the
      moment.
      ????



      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > Iraq is only one part of the ME






      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
      cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 5:43 pm
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




      "Do you mistakenly think Iraq had anything to do 9/11? If so what exactly?"


      I think the ME has everything to do with this.
      Do you think Iraq and it's people have anything to do with ISIS?
      Here's the deal! At least for me anyway.
      Regardless of what any of us think is not mine to deduce. But I can see this
      about what we all think and that is we think what we want to think and justify
      what we want to justify for whatever reason we choose.
      If you think Bronco Bama is doing a wonderful job and him spending us more into
      debt than all previous Presidents combined than I am absolutely positive you are








      entitled to think that. If you believe our nation's welfare roles have doubled
      and there are almost 4 times as many people receiving food stamps since Bronco
      expanded that program than I suppose it's great and who am I to say differently.








      Now consequently if I believe Iraq had something to do with the problems of the
      ME including the disaster on 9/11 than I guess I'll think that.
      Where I tie all this together is regardless is someone thinks a VS is good or
      bad they will think that and it's not our government making us think that. It's
      because we think what we choose to think!
      So I think therefore I am and I am therefore I think.
      And the government sometimes help me develop my thoughts but the government is
      not ultimately responsible for what I think.
      And I'm thinking you think along similar lines!




      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > My lip is just fine so don't get too far ahead of yourself. Just laying some
      things out does not mean I am bent out of shape. You can think of Obama any way
      you like Pelli nobody says you have to do otherwise. I certainly don't see him

      as your hyperbole laced description reads but again that is my choice.




      Yes I heard his speech and as situations change so do decisions re same or
      should they be fixed and rigid?




      I am not buying into this adolescent "golf thing" let those who want to compare
      golf dates and vacation time handle that one. That kind of petty bullshit leaves








      me cold, whether we are talking about Obama or dubya. It just ain't my thing.




      What does 9/11 have to with any of this Pelli? Care to explain that one? Do you
      mistakenly think Iraq had anything to do 9/11? If so what exactly?






      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
      cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 3:36 pm
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




      C'mon CB... Poke that bottom lip back in. I'm just having some fun with ya.
      Bronco Bama is a messianic saint worthy of nothing less than out utmost
      adoration.
      Aparently you didn't hear his speech last night.
      In case you missed it he's going back in to Iraq!
      But, as you say,
      "Obama actually thinks before he acts and thankfully so and has set his policy
      on the will of the ppl" and, of course, George Bush never did that.
      It's like when bronco addressed the family members of that journalist that was
      beheaded and then immediately went out and played golf. He was actually thinking










      before he "teed one up" and made that decision on the will of the ppl because,
      after all, who among us want our president to play sub par golf? I hear ya!
      As you said, It was not until after the beheadings of those two men that ppl
      began to revert to desired military action in the ME. The thousands of folks

      that were murdered on this date 13 years ago was not quite enough I suppose.
      But that old bronco bama ia a helluva guy and I agree he actually thinks before
      he acts....
      I wonder if he's thinking about playing the back 9 next week after those he
      sends those first advisors back to Iraq?


      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > This whole thing is just a round about way of bitching about Obama and so
      dubya was a strong leader because he unnecessarily invaded and occupied a
      soveirgn country that had nothing to do with 9/11 or was any threat to the US?
      All the while abonding another war in the process. Does pushing your military
      to the breaking point make you a strong leader or an unwise one? We wasted and
      continue to senselessly waste human life and trillions of dollars on this war so










      lets not talk about incurring debt shall we? Yes Obama actually thinks before he










      acts and thankfully so and has set his policy on the will of the ppl and the
      desire to not needlessly waste the living of our bravest. The ppl after the Iraq










      debacle and the continued war in Afghanistan wanted OUT and wanted the US to
      stop sending our men and women to die in foreign countries. It was not until the










      beheadings that the will of the ppl began to revert to desired military action
      in the ME.






      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
      cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 3:00 pm
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




      Yes, I hear ya. Someone gets caught getting high on drugs than what's the
      correct response?
      Well, of course, recreational drugs should not be illegal and it's the coercive
      state that's to blame. The poor old drug addict is just exercising his right to
      get shit faced as guaranteed by the Constitution. As the Constitution clearly
      states,
      Life, Liberty, Property and Getting Shit Faced!
      Consequently if the coercive state legalizes a particular drug to ease suffering












      and you disagree with that particular drug than it's the coercive state forcing
      drugs on people.
      As I see it... You can't win!
      And has been explained over and over, in a VS people would be able to take any
      sort of drug for any sort of reason at anytime they wanted.
      And as has been additionally explained everyone would love that!


      Now, as far as blaming darth cheney and the war in Iraq I would say that too is
      extremely subjective. The American people at that time were faced with an
      unprecedented situation and the American people had a strong leader at the time.












      Perhaps if bronco bama had made the decision to go into Iraq it would be viewed
      differently. Wouldn't you say.
      But I digress because you and I both know bronco bama is a peacemaker and would
      never start a war in Iraq.
      Six years later and 16 trillion dollars in debt is a change we can believe in
      and bronco would never get involved with a war in Iraq.
      Would he?


      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > Bingo! Someone else to blame while shirking personal responsibility. Everyone
      should be personally responsible unless you can make the assertion that the
      "state" forces you to do everything. You push things to the breaking point and
      it is the states fault not yours. You know the game, you know how things work,
      but again if you get to the point where the "state" is coming after you it is
      their fault not yours. Very, very convenient and basic. Takes all sorts of
      complexities out of it.




      As for dubya I am not playing the Bush/Obama game. Thgough one thing I am pretty












      aware of at this point, especially after the ISIS complication is that the Iraq
      war was/is one of the biggest foreign policy screw ups of all time. That I
      mostly blame darth cheney for though, dubya was just a front man.






      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
      cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 10:53 am
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




      I understand.
      And as always I'll take it one step further and write that I also understand how














      warped "people" are in general but can at least appreciate what they have
      offered me!
      But you know what?
      To be honest, many people choose to blame the problems in their life or their

      situation on someone or something else instead of taking responsibility for it
      themselves and that attitude is not Bo7b's alone. The government is not
      responsible for all of my problems but it's nice to have someone else to blame
      now and then.
      I'm sure you would admit a lot of it's George Bush's fault.



      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > Sorry it was supposed to read "Meanwhile Bob, and I am sure others exist and
      thrive here in the evil, immoral US of A and resent every second of it. Bob an
      others not me. I understand how warped the "state" is but can at least
      appreciate what it has offered me.






      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;

      cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 10:06 am
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




      "Meanwhile Bob and I am sure quite a few
      others exist and thrive here in the evil, immoral US of A and resent every
      second of it."


      You said Bob and YOU are sure quite a few others exist and thrive here in the
      evil, immoral US of A and resent every second of it.
      I'm sure I read that incorrectly.
      Did you mean Bob, (YOU) and a few others exist and thrive here in the evil,
      immoral US of A and Bo7b resents every second of it?


      Hold the pickles....
      You did not write Bob and I ARE.
      You said, Bob and I AM....
      There should have been a coma after Bob.
      My Bad!





      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > Huh? Not sure how you got there from my post?






      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
      cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 8:04 am
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




      Now I find that quite an odd statement coming from you CB.
      " Meanwhile Bob and I am sure quite a few others exist and thrive here in the
      evil, immoral US of A and resent every second of it."
      Really?
      Are you saying you resent every second of a few others existing and thriving
      here in the evil, immoral US of A? I understand Bo7b's consternation as he has
      made it quite clear how no one can thrive here or enjoy their life without the
      intellectual worship of Ayn Rand, Andy G, Jay Snelson and such.
      But you?
      I assume that was tongue in cheek.


      ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
      > Not sure why they can't start, but I think it hasn't been discussed quite
      enough. Planning phase and all that. Meanwhile Bob and I am sure quite a few

      others exist and thrive here in the evil, immoral US of A and resent every
      second of it.






      -----Original Message-----
      From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
      To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
      cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      Sent: Wed, Sep 10, 2014 11:47 pm
      Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




      Exactly.... It seems so obvious what CB is saying.
      Not only are some not aware that they are being cheated but, in many instances,
      some dealing with the government don't consider themselves being cheated at all.




















      Look, I'm absolutely sure everyone here understands how passionately Bo7b and
      some of the others here hate the U.S. government. It's quite obvious. But why on




















      earth are we to believe that, because of this, everyone must hate the U.S
      government?
      Yes, there are aspects of government control I disagree with. But that, in no
      way, equates to me wanting to throw the baby out with the wash water so everyone




















      can do their own thing... WTF!
      But here's my take on the whole matter.
      If Bo7b or anyone wants to start a VS then I'm all about it.
      I say instead of constantly talking about it... Go for it!
      If the answer is,
      "we can't"!
      I'm way out ahead of you and already know that.
      Now... Why not start from that point?


      > > [Bo7b:] --------------------------- Politicians are the same all
      > > over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.
      > >
      > > ~Nikita Khrushchev, Russian Soviet politician
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm
      > > beginning to believe it.
      > >
      > > ~Quoted in 'Clarence Darrow for the Defense' by Irving Stone.
      > >
      > >
      > > Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the
      > > tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel.
      > >
      > > ~John Quinton, American actor/writer
      > >
      > >
      > > --bob & lou
    • Floyd
      You are correct, Earl. It seems that Brian overlooks (?) the fact that the wars and entry into conflicts , are at the bottom, decided by those that are
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 16, 2014
        You are correct, Earl. It seems that Brian overlooks (?) the fact that the "wars" and entry into "conflicts", are at the bottom, decided by those that are "elected" to offices in the Federal government. And in tracing back to those "individuals" that voted for those, that are sitting in those offices, those "voters" are the ones responsible for this country going to "war" or becoming engaged in those "conflicts". Beyond the "fact", that it is those elected to office, who have formed such agencies as the "CIA", that is instrumental in the training and preliminary organization of the "terrorist" groups, it is on those elected officials heads that what these "government agencies" are doing, was never stopped or prohibited in the beginning, instead they have abetted and continue to support these ongoing actions.


        So at the "rock bottom", those individuals that Brian and Paul, voted for, and were elected, along with all of the other voters who did the same, are basically responsible for and have abetted the "stealing" of the property of all of those who voted the opposite, and of those who did not vote at all (mainly because there was no individual running that they were in agreement with).


        Floyd











        -----Original Message-----
        From: kokopelli_60@... [Rightisright] <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>
        To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Tue, Sep 16, 2014 4:46 pm
        Subject: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars












        No matter how you try CB you are mistaken. They are not “our” wars even it we will pay the chickens as they come home.





        From: cbhensler@...
        Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 8:44 AM
        To: bobalou@... ; pelli8@... ; kokopelli_60@... ; PoliticalForum@... ; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com ; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com ; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com ; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com ; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars





        Bob my first reaction to this post was one of frustration so I saved it then came back. Now I approach it with the tone and level of which it deserves. I have to wonder why you continue on with your ruse. Much like Pelli and his "must" thing you continue this illusion that you are somehow different from just about everyone else in this country. Do you honestly think because you complain about the system you are not part of it and if so how does that work exactly?You pay taxes so you like everybody else are "STEALING PROPERTY" to fund OUR wars. I do not agree with the wars Bob so using your errant logic I am not a part. Like magic if I disagree with them I am not playing in. I mean that sounds fantastic and miraculous but lacks reality. In short but remaining in the US you are just as much a part as every other tax payer/consumer. Welcome to the real world Bob.






        -----Original Message-----
        From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
        To: pelli8 <pelli8@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 7:27 pm
        Subject: RE: Paul on Opinions & Wars




        --Agreed, Paul ... and NONE of us has the right to impose our opinion on others
        (eg, I do not have the right to steal your property and kidnap your kids to
        create a war in Ghana or the Galapagos for some noble purpose of mine. And you
        & Brian have no right to steal my property to fund your wars in the Middle
        East).


        --bob


        -----Original Message-----

        From: pelli8@... [mailto:pelli8@...]
        Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 4:01 PM
        To: kokopelli_60@...; bobalou@...; cbhensler@...
        Subject: Re: Paul on US Aggression


        "Perhaps that's correct for Brian. My opinion is that the USG had no business
        sending trained killers to any of those places."


        I'm sure! My opinion is that you, me and Brian are all entitled to our opinion.
        And I'm also of the opinion there are some that want to tell all of us what our
        opinion must be.



        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > Perhaps it is not even remotely correct for Brian






        -----Original Message-----
        From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
        To: pelli8 <pelli8@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>;
        Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>;
        Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns
        <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>;
        worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 3:11 pm
        Subject: RE: Paul on US Aggression




        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8@... [mailto:pelli8@...]
        Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:11 AM
        To: kokopelli_60@...; bobalou@...; cbhensler@...
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept


        "So again what does 9/11 have to do with it Pelli?"


        It's quite simple really. But, in saying that, I don't really believe your
        political leanings will allow you to accept my rationale.
        In 1941 Americans went to war against the Japanese.
        Did all the Japanese people bomb Pearl Harbor?
        Then why on earth did we go to war with all the Japanese people?
        [Bo7b:]
        [Bo7b:] -- My understanding is that because Churchill & Wilson wanted the USA in
        the war on the side of the Allies, they provoked the Jap gov't to attack by
        means of acts of war against Japan (shipping blockades, trade embargoes, etc.).


        "We" did not go to war against Japanese people, that was our out-of-control US
        "government" that did that, including war against loyal US citizens, some of
        whom who had lived productively and peacefully in the US for several generations
        (you've heard of Manzanar, Poston, etc, yes?). -- bob


        Were towel heads responsible for 9/11?
        Yes or No?
        [Bo7b:]
        --We'll probably never know for sure. My suspicion is NO. -- bob


        Were all the people of Iraq responsible for beheading those journalists? Then
        why is Bronco Bama sending advisors to Iraq?
        [Bo7b:]
        --Most likely for the purpose of expanding the power of the out-of-control US
        "government" and to attempt to somehow glorify the name of BO in the future
        history books. -- bob


        The answer is because that's where ISIS is!
        Someone asked John Dillinger once why he robbed banks.
        His reply was,
        "That's where the money is"!
        And I imagine it was wrong for George Bush to send advisors to Iraq but
        perfectly acceptable for Bronco Bama to send advisors to Iraq because, as you
        said, Bush was wrong and Bronco is right.
        Is that not correct?
        [Bo7b:]
        --Perhaps that's correct for Brian. My opinion is that the USG had no business
        sending trained killers to any of those places.


        --bob


        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > You stated
        "As you said, It was not until after the beheadings of those two men that ppl
        began to revert to desired military action in the ME. The thousands of folks
        that were murdered on this date 13 years ago was not quite enough I suppose.
        But that old bronco bama ia a helluva guy and I agree he actually thinks before
        he acts"....
        So again what does 9/11 have to do with it Pelli? I think it kind of cheap to
        use that horrific day to simply pad ones rant, how about you?




        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
        To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Sat, Sep 13, 2014 9:34 am
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




        In regards to me mistakenly thinking Iraq had anything to do 9/11?
        To paraphrase:
        You stated that Iraq is only one part of the ME and I replied, Of course!
        Or in other words, I agree.
        Saddam (Iraq)was only one part of the ME and a major one.
        ISIS is also a part.
        Hamas is a part!
        And Al Qaeda is a part!
        There are probably some good parts as well but I can't think of any.




        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > What is your point, you seem to have gotten off track.






        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
        To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 9:10 am
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




        Of course!
        Saddam was a major part of the ME.
        ISIS is one part of the ME as well.
        Hamas is part!
        Al Qaeda is part!
        There are probably some good parts as well but I can't think of any at the
        moment.
        ????



        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > Iraq is only one part of the ME






        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
        To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 5:43 pm
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




        "Do you mistakenly think Iraq had anything to do 9/11? If so what exactly?"


        I think the ME has everything to do with this.
        Do you think Iraq and it's people have anything to do with ISIS?
        Here's the deal! At least for me anyway.
        Regardless of what any of us think is not mine to deduce. But I can see this
        about what we all think and that is we think what we want to think and justify
        what we want to justify for whatever reason we choose.
        If you think Bronco Bama is doing a wonderful job and him spending us more into
        debt than all previous Presidents combined than I am absolutely positive you are








        entitled to think that. If you believe our nation's welfare roles have doubled
        and there are almost 4 times as many people receiving food stamps since Bronco
        expanded that program than I suppose it's great and who am I to say differently.








        Now consequently if I believe Iraq had something to do with the problems of the
        ME including the disaster on 9/11 than I guess I'll think that.
        Where I tie all this together is regardless is someone thinks a VS is good or
        bad they will think that and it's not our government making us think that. It's
        because we think what we choose to think!
        So I think therefore I am and I am therefore I think.
        And the government sometimes help me develop my thoughts but the government is
        not ultimately responsible for what I think.
        And I'm thinking you think along similar lines!




        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > My lip is just fine so don't get too far ahead of yourself. Just laying some
        things out does not mean I am bent out of shape. You can think of Obama any way
        you like Pelli nobody says you have to do otherwise. I certainly don't see him
        as your hyperbole laced description reads but again that is my choice.




        Yes I heard his speech and as situations change so do decisions re same or
        should they be fixed and rigid?




        I am not buying into this adolescent "golf thing" let those who want to compare
        golf dates and vacation time handle that one. That kind of petty bullshit leaves








        me cold, whether we are talking about Obama or dubya. It just ain't my thing.




        What does 9/11 have to with any of this Pelli? Care to explain that one? Do you
        mistakenly think Iraq had anything to do 9/11? If so what exactly?






        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
        To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 3:36 pm
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




        C'mon CB... Poke that bottom lip back in. I'm just having some fun with ya.
        Bronco Bama is a messianic saint worthy of nothing less than out utmost
        adoration.
        Aparently you didn't hear his speech last night.
        In case you missed it he's going back in to Iraq!
        But, as you say,
        "Obama actually thinks before he acts and thankfully so and has set his policy
        on the will of the ppl" and, of course, George Bush never did that.
        It's like when bronco addressed the family members of that journalist that was
        beheaded and then immediately went out and played golf. He was actually thinking











        before he "teed one up" and made that decision on the will of the ppl because,
        after all, who among us want our president to play sub par golf? I hear ya!
        As you said, It was not until after the beheadings of those two men that ppl
        began to revert to desired military action in the ME. The thousands of folks
        that were murdered on this date 13 years ago was not quite enough I suppose.
        But that old bronco bama ia a helluva guy and I agree he actually thinks before
        he acts....
        I wonder if he's thinking about playing the back 9 next week after those he
        sends those first advisors back to Iraq?


        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > This whole thing is just a round about way of bitching about Obama and so
        dubya was a strong leader because he unnecessarily invaded and occupied a
        soveirgn country that had nothing to do with 9/11 or was any threat to the US?
        All the while abonding another war in the process. Does pushing your military
        to the breaking point make you a strong leader or an unwise one? We wasted and
        continue to senselessly waste human life and trillions of dollars on this war so










        lets not talk about incurring debt shall we? Yes Obama actually thinks before he










        acts and thankfully so and has set his policy on the will of the ppl and the
        desire to not needlessly waste the living of our bravest. The ppl after the Iraq










        debacle and the continued war in Afghanistan wanted OUT and wanted the US to
        stop sending our men and women to die in foreign countries. It was not until the










        beheadings that the will of the ppl began to revert to desired military action
        in the ME.






        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
        To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 3:00 pm
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




        Yes, I hear ya. Someone gets caught getting high on drugs than what's the
        correct response?
        Well, of course, recreational drugs should not be illegal and it's the coercive
        state that's to blame. The poor old drug addict is just exercising his right to
        get shit faced as guaranteed by the Constitution. As the Constitution clearly
        states,
        Life, Liberty, Property and Getting Shit Faced!
        Consequently if the coercive state legalizes a particular drug to ease suffering












        and you disagree with that particular drug than it's the coercive state forcing
        drugs on people.
        As I see it... You can't win!
        And has been explained over and over, in a VS people would be able to take any
        sort of drug for any sort of reason at anytime they wanted.
        And as has been additionally explained everyone would love that!


        Now, as far as blaming darth cheney and the war in Iraq I would say that too is
        extremely subjective. The American people at that time were faced with an
        unprecedented situation and the American people had a strong leader at the time.












        Perhaps if bronco bama had made the decision to go into Iraq it would be viewed
        differently. Wouldn't you say.
        But I digress because you and I both know bronco bama is a peacemaker and would
        never start a war in Iraq.
        Six years later and 16 trillion dollars in debt is a change we can believe in
        and bronco would never get involved with a war in Iraq.
        Would he?


        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > Bingo! Someone else to blame while shirking personal responsibility. Everyone
        should be personally responsible unless you can make the assertion that the
        "state" forces you to do everything. You push things to the breaking point and
        it is the states fault not yours. You know the game, you know how things work,
        but again if you get to the point where the "state" is coming after you it is
        their fault not yours. Very, very convenient and basic. Takes all sorts of
        complexities out of it.




        As for dubya I am not playing the Bush/Obama game. Thgough one thing I am pretty












        aware of at this point, especially after the ISIS complication is that the Iraq
        war was/is one of the biggest foreign policy screw ups of all time. That I
        mostly blame darth cheney for though, dubya was just a front man.






        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
        To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 10:53 am
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




        I understand.
        And as always I'll take it one step further and write that I also understand how














        warped "people" are in general but can at least appreciate what they have
        offered me!
        But you know what?
        To be honest, many people choose to blame the problems in their life or their
        situation on someone or something else instead of taking responsibility for it
        themselves and that attitude is not Bo7b's alone. The government is not
        responsible for all of my problems but it's nice to have someone else to blame
        now and then.
        I'm sure you would admit a lot of it's George Bush's fault.



        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > Sorry it was supposed to read "Meanwhile Bob, and I am sure others exist and
        thrive here in the evil, immoral US of A and resent every second of it. Bob an
        others not me. I understand how warped the "state" is but can at least
        appreciate what it has offered me.






        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
        To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 10:06 am
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




        "Meanwhile Bob and I am sure quite a few
        others exist and thrive here in the evil, immoral US of A and resent every
        second of it."


        You said Bob and YOU are sure quite a few others exist and thrive here in the
        evil, immoral US of A and resent every second of it.
        I'm sure I read that incorrectly.
        Did you mean Bob, (YOU) and a few others exist and thrive here in the evil,
        immoral US of A and Bo7b resents every second of it?


        Hold the pickles....
        You did not write Bob and I ARE.
        You said, Bob and I AM....
        There should have been a coma after Bob.
        My Bad!





        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > Huh? Not sure how you got there from my post?






        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
        To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 8:04 am
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




        Now I find that quite an odd statement coming from you CB.
        " Meanwhile Bob and I am sure quite a few others exist and thrive here in the
        evil, immoral US of A and resent every second of it."
        Really?
        Are you saying you resent every second of a few others existing and thriving
        here in the evil, immoral US of A? I understand Bo7b's consternation as he has
        made it quite clear how no one can thrive here or enjoy their life without the
        intellectual worship of Ayn Rand, Andy G, Jay Snelson and such.
        But you?
        I assume that was tongue in cheek.


        ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
        > Not sure why they can't start, but I think it hasn't been discussed quite
        enough. Planning phase and all that. Meanwhile Bob and I am sure quite a few
        others exist and thrive here in the evil, immoral US of A and resent every
        second of it.






        -----Original Message-----
        From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
        To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
        cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
        Sent: Wed, Sep 10, 2014 11:47 pm
        Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




        Exactly.... It seems so obvious what CB is saying.
        Not only are some not aware that they are being cheated but, in many instances,
        some dealing with the government don't consider themselves being cheated at all.




















        Look, I'm absolutely sure everyone here understands how passionately Bo7b and
        some of the others here hate the U.S. government. It's quite obvious. But why on




















        earth are we to believe that, because of this, everyone must hate the U.S
        government?
        Yes, there are aspects of government control I disagree with. But that, in no
        way, equates to me wanting to throw the baby out with the wash water so everyone




















        can do their own thing... WTF!
        But here's my take on the whole matter.
        If Bo7b or anyone wants to start a VS then I'm all about it.
        I say instead of constantly talking about it... Go for it!
        If the answer is,
        "we can't"!
        I'm way out ahead of you and already know that.
        Now... Why not start from that point?


        > > [Bo7b:] --------------------------- Politicians are the same all
        > > over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.
        > >
        > > ~Nikita Khrushchev, Russian Soviet politician
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm
        > > beginning to believe it.
        > >
        > > ~Quoted in 'Clarence Darrow for the Defense' by Irving Stone.
        > >
        > >
        > > Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the
        > > tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel.
        > >
        > > ~John Quinton, American actor/writer
        > >
        > >
        > > --bob & lou




























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • <kokopelli_60@...>
        Indeed. And we, as a society, choose to believe those fools we elect and see them as smarter than us. I don’t know the answer for/to that in a
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 23, 2014
          Indeed. And we, as a society, choose to believe those fools we elect and see them as smarter than us. I don’t know the answer for/to that in a representative republic. What I do know is the 17th amendment has put the major screws to us as a republic. if the States had more direct responsibility in funding the USG AND they elected the senate from a vote in their respective legislatures things would be much different. But I am afraid that that horse has left the barn never to return.


          From: mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 9:01 PM
          To: Rightisright@yahoogroups.com ; bobalou@... ; pelli8@... ; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com ; cbhensler@...
          Subject: Re: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars



          You are correct, Earl. It seems that Brian overlooks (?) the fact that the "wars" and entry into "conflicts", are at the bottom, decided by those that are "elected" to offices in the Federal government. And in tracing back to those "individuals" that voted for those, that are sitting in those offices, those "voters" are the ones responsible for this country going to "war" or becoming engaged in those "conflicts". Beyond the "fact", that it is those elected to office, who have formed such agencies as the "CIA", that is instrumental in the training and preliminary organization of the "terrorist" groups, it is on those elected officials heads that what these "government agencies" are doing, was never stopped or prohibited in the beginning, instead they have abetted and continue to support these ongoing actions.


          So at the "rock bottom", those individuals that Brian and Paul, voted for, and were elected, along with all of the other voters who did the same, are basically responsible for and have abetted the "stealing" of the property of all of those who voted the opposite, and of those who did not vote at all (mainly because there was no individual running that they were in agreement with).


          Floyd










          -----Original Message-----
          From: kokopelli_60@... [Rightisright] <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>
          To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; pelli8 <pelli8@...>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Tue, Sep 16, 2014 4:46 pm
          Subject: [Rightisright] Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars





          No matter how you try CB you are mistaken. They are not “our” wars even it we will pay the chickens as they come home.


          From: cbhensler@...

          Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 8:44 AM
          To: bobalou@... ; pelli8@... ; kokopelli_60@... ; PoliticalForum@... ; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com ; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com ; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com ; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com ; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: Paul on Opinions & Wars


          Bob my first reaction to this post was one of frustration so I saved it then came back. Now I approach it with the tone and level of which it deserves. I have to wonder why you continue on with your ruse. Much like Pelli and his "must" thing you continue this illusion that you are somehow different from just about everyone else in this country. Do you honestly think because you complain about the system you are not part of it and if so how does that work exactly?You pay taxes so you like everybody else are "STEALING PROPERTY" to fund OUR wars. I do not agree with the wars Bob so using your errant logic I am not a part. Like magic if I disagree with them I am not playing in. I mean that sounds fantastic and miraculous but lacks reality. In short but remaining in the US you are just as much a part as every other tax payer/consumer. Welcome to the real world Bob.






          -----Original Message-----
          From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
          To: pelli8 <pelli8@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 7:27 pm
          Subject: RE: Paul on Opinions & Wars




          --Agreed, Paul ... and NONE of us has the right to impose our opinion on others
          (eg, I do not have the right to steal your property and kidnap your kids to
          create a war in Ghana or the Galapagos for some noble purpose of mine. And you
          & Brian have no right to steal my property to fund your wars in the Middle
          East).


          --bob


          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8@... [mailto:pelli8@...]
          Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 4:01 PM
          To: kokopelli_60@...; bobalou@...; cbhensler@...
          Subject: Re: Paul on US Aggression


          "Perhaps that's correct for Brian. My opinion is that the USG had no business
          sending trained killers to any of those places."


          I'm sure! My opinion is that you, me and Brian are all entitled to our opinion.
          And I'm also of the opinion there are some that want to tell all of us what our
          opinion must be.



          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > Perhaps it is not even remotely correct for Brian






          -----Original Message-----
          From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
          To: pelli8 <pelli8@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>;
          Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>;
          Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns
          <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>;
          worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 3:11 pm
          Subject: RE: Paul on US Aggression




          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8@... [mailto:pelli8@...]
          Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:11 AM
          To: kokopelli_60@...; bobalou@...; cbhensler@...
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept


          "So again what does 9/11 have to do with it Pelli?"


          It's quite simple really. But, in saying that, I don't really believe your
          political leanings will allow you to accept my rationale.
          In 1941 Americans went to war against the Japanese.
          Did all the Japanese people bomb Pearl Harbor?
          Then why on earth did we go to war with all the Japanese people?
          [Bo7b:]
          [Bo7b:] -- My understanding is that because Churchill & Wilson wanted the USA in
          the war on the side of the Allies, they provoked the Jap gov't to attack by
          means of acts of war against Japan (shipping blockades, trade embargoes, etc.).


          "We" did not go to war against Japanese people, that was our out-of-control US
          "government" that did that, including war against loyal US citizens, some of
          whom who had lived productively and peacefully in the US for several generations
          (you've heard of Manzanar, Poston, etc, yes?). -- bob


          Were towel heads responsible for 9/11?
          Yes or No?
          [Bo7b:]
          --We'll probably never know for sure. My suspicion is NO. -- bob


          Were all the people of Iraq responsible for beheading those journalists? Then
          why is Bronco Bama sending advisors to Iraq?
          [Bo7b:]
          --Most likely for the purpose of expanding the power of the out-of-control US
          "government" and to attempt to somehow glorify the name of BO in the future
          history books. -- bob


          The answer is because that's where ISIS is!
          Someone asked John Dillinger once why he robbed banks.
          His reply was,
          "That's where the money is"!
          And I imagine it was wrong for George Bush to send advisors to Iraq but
          perfectly acceptable for Bronco Bama to send advisors to Iraq because, as you
          said, Bush was wrong and Bronco is right.
          Is that not correct?
          [Bo7b:]
          --Perhaps that's correct for Brian. My opinion is that the USG had no business
          sending trained killers to any of those places.


          --bob


          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > You stated
          "As you said, It was not until after the beheadings of those two men that ppl
          began to revert to desired military action in the ME. The thousands of folks
          that were murdered on this date 13 years ago was not quite enough I suppose.
          But that old bronco bama ia a helluva guy and I agree he actually thinks before
          he acts"....
          So again what does 9/11 have to do with it Pelli? I think it kind of cheap to
          use that horrific day to simply pad ones rant, how about you?




          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
          To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Sat, Sep 13, 2014 9:34 am
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




          In regards to me mistakenly thinking Iraq had anything to do 9/11?
          To paraphrase:
          You stated that Iraq is only one part of the ME and I replied, Of course!
          Or in other words, I agree.
          Saddam (Iraq)was only one part of the ME and a major one.
          ISIS is also a part.
          Hamas is a part!
          And Al Qaeda is a part!
          There are probably some good parts as well but I can't think of any.




          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > What is your point, you seem to have gotten off track.






          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
          To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 9:10 am
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




          Of course!
          Saddam was a major part of the ME.
          ISIS is one part of the ME as well.
          Hamas is part!
          Al Qaeda is part!
          There are probably some good parts as well but I can't think of any at the
          moment.
          ????



          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > Iraq is only one part of the ME






          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
          To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 5:43 pm
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




          "Do you mistakenly think Iraq had anything to do 9/11? If so what exactly?"


          I think the ME has everything to do with this.
          Do you think Iraq and it's people have anything to do with ISIS?
          Here's the deal! At least for me anyway.
          Regardless of what any of us think is not mine to deduce. But I can see this
          about what we all think and that is we think what we want to think and justify
          what we want to justify for whatever reason we choose.
          If you think Bronco Bama is doing a wonderful job and him spending us more into
          debt than all previous Presidents combined than I am absolutely positive you are








          entitled to think that. If you believe our nation's welfare roles have doubled
          and there are almost 4 times as many people receiving food stamps since Bronco
          expanded that program than I suppose it's great and who am I to say differently.








          Now consequently if I believe Iraq had something to do with the problems of the
          ME including the disaster on 9/11 than I guess I'll think that.
          Where I tie all this together is regardless is someone thinks a VS is good or
          bad they will think that and it's not our government making us think that. It's
          because we think what we choose to think!
          So I think therefore I am and I am therefore I think.
          And the government sometimes help me develop my thoughts but the government is
          not ultimately responsible for what I think.
          And I'm thinking you think along similar lines!




          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > My lip is just fine so don't get too far ahead of yourself. Just laying some

          things out does not mean I am bent out of shape. You can think of Obama any way
          you like Pelli nobody says you have to do otherwise. I certainly don't see him
          as your hyperbole laced description reads but again that is my choice.




          Yes I heard his speech and as situations change so do decisions re same or
          should they be fixed and rigid?




          I am not buying into this adolescent "golf thing" let those who want to compare
          golf dates and vacation time handle that one. That kind of petty bullshit leaves








          me cold, whether we are talking about Obama or dubya. It just ain't my thing.




          What does 9/11 have to with any of this Pelli? Care to explain that one? Do you
          mistakenly think Iraq had anything to do 9/11? If so what exactly?






          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
          To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 3:36 pm
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




          C'mon CB... Poke that bottom lip back in. I'm just having some fun with ya.
          Bronco Bama is a messianic saint worthy of nothing less than out utmost
          adoration.
          Aparently you didn't hear his speech last night.
          In case you missed it he's going back in to Iraq!
          But, as you say,
          "Obama actually thinks before he acts and thankfully so and has set his policy
          on the will of the ppl" and, of course, George Bush never did that.
          It's like when bronco addressed the family members of that journalist that was
          beheaded and then immediately went out and played golf. He was actually thinking










          before he "teed one up" and made that decision on the will of the ppl because,
          after all, who among us want our president to play sub par golf? I hear ya!
          As you said, It was not until after the beheadings of those two men that ppl
          began to revert to desired military action in the ME. The thousands of folks
          that were murdered on this date 13 years ago was not quite enough I suppose.
          But that old bronco bama ia a helluva guy and I agree he actually thinks before
          he acts....
          I wonder if he's thinking about playing the back 9 next week after those he
          sends those first advisors back to Iraq?


          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > This whole thing is just a round about way of bitching about Obama and so
          dubya was a strong leader because he unnecessarily invaded and occupied a
          soveirgn country that had nothing to do with 9/11 or was any threat to the US?
          All the while abonding another war in the process. Does pushing your military
          to the breaking point make you a strong leader or an unwise one? We wasted and
          continue to senselessly waste human life and trillions of dollars on this war so










          lets not talk about incurring debt shall we? Yes Obama actually thinks before he










          acts and thankfully so and has set his policy on the will of the ppl and the
          desire to not needlessly waste the living of our bravest. The ppl after the Iraq










          debacle and the continued war in Afghanistan wanted OUT and wanted the US to
          stop sending our men and women to die in foreign countries. It was not until the










          beheadings that the will of the ppl began to revert to desired military action
          in the ME.






          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
          To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 3:00 pm
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




          Yes, I hear ya. Someone gets caught getting high on drugs than what's the
          correct response?
          Well, of course, recreational drugs should not be illegal and it's the coercive
          state that's to blame. The poor old drug addict is just exercising his right to
          get shit faced as guaranteed by the Constitution. As the Constitution clearly
          states,
          Life, Liberty, Property and Getting Shit Faced!
          Consequently if the coercive state legalizes a particular drug to ease suffering












          and you disagree with that particular drug than it's the coercive state forcing
          drugs on people.
          As I see it... You can't win!
          And has been explained over and over, in a VS people would be able to take any
          sort of drug for any sort of reason at anytime they wanted.
          And as has been additionally explained everyone would love that!


          Now, as far as blaming darth cheney and the war in Iraq I would say that too is
          extremely subjective. The American people at that time were faced with an
          unprecedented situation and the American people had a strong leader at the time.












          Perhaps if bronco bama had made the decision to go into Iraq it would be viewed
          differently. Wouldn't you say.
          But I digress because you and I both know bronco bama is a peacemaker and would
          never start a war in Iraq.
          Six years later and 16 trillion dollars in debt is a change we can believe in
          and bronco would never get involved with a war in Iraq.
          Would he?


          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > Bingo! Someone else to blame while shirking personal responsibility. Everyone
          should be personally responsible unless you can make the assertion that the
          "state" forces you to do everything. You push things to the breaking point and
          it is the states fault not yours. You know the game, you know how things work,
          but again if you get to the point where the "state" is coming after you it is
          their fault not yours. Very, very convenient and basic. Takes all sorts of
          complexities out of it.




          As for dubya I am not playing the Bush/Obama game. Thgough one thing I am pretty













          aware of at this point, especially after the ISIS complication is that the Iraq
          war was/is one of the biggest foreign policy screw ups of all time. That I
          mostly blame darth cheney for though, dubya was just a front man.






          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
          To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 10:53 am
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




          I understand.
          And as always I'll take it one step further and write that I also understand how














          warped "people" are in general but can at least appreciate what they have
          offered me!
          But you know what?
          To be honest, many people choose to blame the problems in their life or their
          situation on someone or something else instead of taking responsibility for it
          themselves and that attitude is not Bo7b's alone. The government is not
          responsible for all of my problems but it's nice to have someone else to blame
          now and then.
          I'm sure you would admit a lot of it's George Bush's fault.



          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > Sorry it was supposed to read "Meanwhile Bob, and I am sure others exist and
          thrive here in the evil, immoral US of A and resent every second of it. Bob an
          others not me. I understand how warped the "state" is but can at least
          appreciate what it has offered me.






          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
          To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 10:06 am
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




          "Meanwhile Bob and I am sure quite a few
          others exist and thrive here in the evil, immoral US of A and resent every
          second of it."


          You said Bob and YOU are sure quite a few others exist and thrive here in the
          evil, immoral US of A and resent every second of it.
          I'm sure I read that incorrectly.
          Did you mean Bob, (YOU) and a few others exist and thrive here in the evil,
          immoral US of A and Bo7b resents every second of it?


          Hold the pickles....
          You did not write Bob and I ARE.
          You said, Bob and I AM....
          There should have been a coma after Bob.
          My Bad!






          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > Huh? Not sure how you got there from my post?






          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>

          To: kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 8:04 am
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




          Now I find that quite an odd statement coming from you CB.
          " Meanwhile Bob and I am sure quite a few others exist and thrive here in the
          evil, immoral US of A and resent every second of it."
          Really?

          Are you saying you resent every second of a few others existing and thriving
          here in the evil, immoral US of A? I understand Bo7b's consternation as he has
          made it quite clear how no one can thrive here or enjoy their life without the
          intellectual worship of Ayn Rand, Andy G, Jay Snelson and such.
          But you?
          I assume that was tongue in cheek.


          ---- cbhensler@... wrote:
          > Not sure why they can't start, but I think it hasn't been discussed quite
          enough. Planning phase and all that. Meanwhile Bob and I am sure quite a few
          others exist and thrive here in the evil, immoral US of A and resent every
          second of it.






          -----Original Message-----
          From: pelli8 <pelli8@...>
          To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; kokopelli_60 <kokopelli_60@...>;
          cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
          Sent: Wed, Sep 10, 2014 11:47 pm
          Subject: Re: Paul on Win-Win Concept




          Exactly.... It seems so obvious what CB is saying.
          Not only are some not aware that they are being cheated but, in many instances,
          some dealing with the government don't consider themselves being cheated at all.




















          Look, I'm absolutely sure everyone here understands how passionately Bo7b and
          some of the others here hate the U.S. government. It's quite obvious. But why on




















          earth are we to believe that, because of this, everyone must hate the U.S
          government?
          Yes, there are aspects of government control I disagree with. But that, in no
          way, equates to me wanting to throw the baby out with the wash water so everyone




















          can do their own thing... WTF!
          But here's my take on the whole matter.
          If Bo7b or anyone wants to start a VS then I'm all about it.
          I say instead of constantly talking about it... Go for it!
          If the answer is,
          "we can't"!
          I'm way out ahead of you and already know that.
          Now... Why not start from that point?


          > > [Bo7b:] --------------------------- Politicians are the same all
          > > over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.
          > >
          > > ~Nikita Khrushchev, Russian Soviet politician
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm
          > > beginning to believe it.
          > >
          > > ~Quoted in 'Clarence Darrow for the Defense' by Irving Stone.
          > >
          > >
          > > Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the
          > > tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel.
          > >
          > > ~John Quinton, American actor/writer
          > >
          > >
          > > --bob & lou

















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