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Re: Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?

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  • Algae5636@...
    OK-- that s what consumers do in a free society. Now tell me: What do victims do in a free society? ... From: Bob Wynman To: cbhensler
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 27 12:21 AM
      OK-- that's what consumers do in a free society.
      Now tell me:
      What do victims do in a free society?
      :-)








      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      To: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; algae5636 <algae5636@...>; davidwin <davidwin@...>; conner2or <conner2or@...>; sergeantfreedom <sergeantfreedom@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 7:00 pm
      Subject: RE: Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?






      In the free society, consumers buy whatever they want from whomever they want for whatever price they & the sellers agree on.

      In the State-run society, we’re forced to buy stuff we don’t want (very expensive and low quality insurance, transportation, communications, police and military “protection” disservices, school indoctrination, etc.) and if we refuse to buy we’re fined imprisoned or killed.

      There is a difference, Brian.

      --bob

      From: cbhensler@... [mailto:cbhensler@...]
      Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 1:15 AM
      To: bobalou@...; algae5636@...; davidwin@...; conner2or@...; sergeantfreedom@...; PoliticalForum@...; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?

      Do you think consumers are always given a straight shot on what they are buying and if so why?






      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      To: algae5636 <algae5636@...>; davidwin <davidwin@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; conner2or <conner2or@...>; sergeantfreedom <sergeantfreedom@...>; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@...>; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com>; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com>; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com>; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Mon, Aug 25, 2014 1:09 am
      Subject: Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?




      Consumers generally seek the highest quality product at the lowest price. Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?





      --bob & lou





      From: algae5636@... [mailto:algae5636@...]
      Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 1:39 PM
      Subject: Re: Al on Fear , Risk & Government??







      Dave--
      I didn't say anything was wrong with it-- just pointed out some of the consequences of Bob's simplistic and idealized version of the "win-win free market society" in which everybody is a competitor and a consumer at the same time, but the consumer side keeps the competitor side honest, and market behavior rules in a world and everybody values getting the lowest price above all else.
      If you want to talk about reality, that's a different subject.




      :-)









      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dave <davidwin@...>
      Sent: Sun, Aug 24, 2014 4:43 am
      Subject: RE: Al on Fear , Risk & Government??








      From: algae5636@... [mailto:algae5636@...]
      Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 2:23 AM
      Subject: Re: Al on Fear , Risk & Government??













      Lol.
      No Bob--
      That's not reasoning. That's human behavior.
      The "win-win free market society" puts every individual at constant competitive risk, and it puts the least talented people in the highest danger. Over time, the "best and brightest" entrepreneurs will out-compete them at whatever business they try to do.




      What could be wrong with that? My middle son wanted to be a rock star - of course. by college age he had reduced his ambitions to being a music producer. After many hand to mouth years of free lance audio engineering he took a day jay in TV audio, and is happy as shit. As a friend once suggested to me in relation to attracting the ladies, we all have a different batting average, some have to come up to bat more often.









      When the best rise to the top, based upon consumer/fans/investors/concert goers, is it not advantageous all around? should the system as a whole under perform so that the less than competent get to monkey with the controls?









      Your "free market" forces the least talented to compete with the most talented people.









      It does not! No one is forced to unrealistically compete with people they can not beat. The reasonable person sets his sights, and resets them, on an attainable goal. The consumer, which is all of us, benefit by having the best at the top. And by best, I do not mean by some measurement we have no control over. Ambition itself is one of the biggest prereq's for success, and achieving that goal, whatever level it may be, is one of the biggest satisfactions. Only a small and immature person looks around and complains; hey, he has more than I do.









      Consider sports, where the competitive juices are among the most strong, jocks settle into their level, can remain good sports, respect those who come in above them on whatever scale. The whole team benefits, the whole league.









      The least talented are in a no-win bind-- they're for all practical purposes, amateurs having to compete against professionals.









      Seems to me we all choose to do this in certain areas of life. So what? Buckley once suggested, let them have their polo.






      That's how the market leads to special privileges for the few at the expense of the many.
      :-)











      But it is not at anyone's expense. That is the whole point of win win. In a world of very limited resources, where we all rush to get that last potato, the weakest brother would always loose.




      But there are no serious limits on the basics, every American at least gets plenty of potatoes, every student gets an A if he chooses to put in the time. We compete for the extra stuff, and the energy of that effort causes more and more resources to be created. For an american to bitch about what he gets, is like a professional baseball player bitching that his contract is only half a million.









      [Bo7b:] -------------------------=


      [Bo7b:]


      The State can protect and promote the interests of its sick, or potentially sick, citizens in one of two ways only: either by coercing physicians, and other medical and paramedical personnel, to serve patients — as State-owned slaves in the last analysis, or be creating economic, moral, and political circumstances favorable to a plentiful supply of competent physicians and effective drugs.





      — Thomas Szasz, “The Right to Health” [1969]





      The citizen is sovereign only when he can retain and enjoy the fruits of his labor. If the government has first claim on his property he must learn to genuflect before it. When the right of property is abrogated, all the other rights of the individual are undermined, and to speak of the sovereign citizen who has no absolute right to property is to talk nonsense. It is like saying that the slave is free because he is allowed to do anything he wants to do (even vote, if you wish) except to own what he produces.




      — Frank Chodorov, The Freeman [August 1990





      --bob & lou


























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bob Wynman
      What would you do in a free society if you considered yourself a victim, Al? --bob From: algae5636@aol.com [mailto:algae5636@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 27 9:17 AM
        What would you do in a free society if you considered yourself a victim, Al?





        --bob





        From: algae5636@... [mailto:algae5636@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 12:21 AM
        Subject: Re: Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?





        OK-- that's what consumers do in a free society.
        Now tell me:
        What do victims do in a free society?


        :-)








        -----Original Message-----
        From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >
        To: cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; algae5636 <algae5636@... <mailto:algae5636@...> >; davidwin <davidwin@... <mailto:davidwin@...> >; conner2or <conner2or@... <mailto:conner2or@...> >; sergeantfreedom <sergeantfreedom@... <mailto:sergeantfreedom@...> >; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> >; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> >; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
        Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 7:00 pm
        Subject: RE: Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?


        In the free society, consumers buy whatever they want from whomever they want for whatever price they & the sellers agree on.





        In the State-run society, we’re forced to buy stuff we don’t want (very expensive and low quality insurance, transportation, communications, police and military “protection” disservices, school indoctrination, etc.) and if we refuse to buy we’re fined imprisoned or killed.





        There is a difference, Brian.





        --bob





        From: cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> [mailto:cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...?> ]
        Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 1:15 AM
        To: bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> ; algae5636@... <mailto:algae5636@...> ; davidwin@... <mailto:davidwin@...> ; conner2or@... <mailto:conner2or@...> ; sergeantfreedom@... <mailto:sergeantfreedom@...> ; PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> ; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> ; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> ; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> ; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> ; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?





        Do you think consumers are always given a straight shot on what they are buying and if so why?


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@... <mailto:bobalou@...> >
        To: algae5636 <algae5636@... <mailto:algae5636@...> >; davidwin <davidwin@... <mailto:davidwin@...> >; cbhensler <cbhensler@... <mailto:cbhensler@...> >; conner2or <conner2or@... <mailto:conner2or@...> >; sergeantfreedom <sergeantfreedom@... <mailto:sergeantfreedom@...> >; PoliticalForum <PoliticalForum@... <mailto:PoliticalForum@...> >; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com> >; Rightisright <Rightisright@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Rightisright@yahoogroups.com> >; whateverreturns <whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com> >; whatnowdebate <whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com <mailto:whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com> >; worldwide_politics <worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com> >
        Sent: Mon, Aug 25, 2014 1:09 am
        Subject: Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?


        Consumers generally seek the highest quality product at the lowest price. Do you seek the lowest quality at the highest price, Al?





        --bob & lou





        From: algae5636@... <mailto:algae5636@...> [mailto:algae5636@...]
        Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 1:39 PM
        Subject: Re: Al on Fear , Risk & Government??





        Dave--
        I didn't say anything was wrong with it-- just pointed out some of the consequences of Bob's simplistic and idealized version of the "win-win free market society" in which everybody is a competitor and a consumer at the same time, but the consumer side keeps the competitor side honest, and market behavior rules in a world and everybody values getting the lowest price above all else.
        If you want to talk about reality, that's a different subject.


        :-)





        -----Original Message-----
        From: Dave <davidwin@... <mailto:davidwin@...> >
        Sent: Sun, Aug 24, 2014 4:43 am
        Subject: RE: Al on Fear , Risk & Government??


        From: algae5636@... <mailto:algae5636@...> [mailto:algae5636@...]
        Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 2:23 AM
        Subject: Re: Al on Fear , Risk & Government??





        Lol.
        No Bob--
        That's not reasoning. That's human behavior.
        The "win-win free market society" puts every individual at constant competitive risk, and it puts the least talented people in the highest danger. Over time, the "best and brightest" entrepreneurs will out-compete them at whatever business they try to do.


        What could be wrong with that? My middle son wanted to be a rock star - of course. by college age he had reduced his ambitions to being a music producer. After many hand to mouth years of free lance audio engineering he took a day jay in TV audio, and is happy as shit. As a friend once suggested to me in relation to attracting the ladies, we all have a different batting average, some have to come up to bat more often.





        When the best rise to the top, based upon consumer/fans/investors/concert goers, is it not advantageous all around? should the system as a whole under perform so that the less than competent get to monkey with the controls?





        Your "free market" forces the least talented to compete with the most talented people.





        It does not! No one is forced to unrealistically compete with people they can not beat. The reasonable person sets his sights, and resets them, on an attainable goal. The consumer, which is all of us, benefit by having the best at the top. And by best, I do not mean by some measurement we have no control over. Ambition itself is one of the biggest prereq's for success, and achieving that goal, whatever level it may be, is one of the biggest satisfactions. Only a small and immature person looks around and complains; hey, he has more than I do.





        Consider sports, where the competitive juices are among the most strong, jocks settle into their level, can remain good sports, respect those who come in above them on whatever scale. The whole team benefits, the whole league.





        The least talented are in a no-win bind-- they're for all practical purposes, amateurs having to compete against professionals.





        Seems to me we all choose to do this in certain areas of life. So what? Buckley once suggested, let them have their polo.




        That's how the market leads to special privileges for the few at the expense of the many.
        :-)





        But it is not at anyone's expense. That is the whole point of win win. In a world of very limited resources, where we all rush to get that last potato, the weakest brother would always loose.


        But there are no serious limits on the basics, every American at least gets plenty of potatoes, every student gets an A if he chooses to put in the time. We compete for the extra stuff, and the energy of that effort causes more and more resources to be created. For an american to bitch about what he gets, is like a professional baseball player bitching that his contract is only half a million.





        [Bo7b:] -------------------------=


        [Bo7b:]


        The State can protect and promote the interests of its sick, or potentially sick, citizens in one of two ways only: either by coercing physicians, and other medical and paramedical personnel, to serve patients — as State-owned slaves in the last analysis, or be creating economic, moral, and political circumstances favorable to a plentiful supply of competent physicians and effective drugs.





        — Thomas Szasz, “The Right to Health” [1969]





        The citizen is sovereign only when he can retain and enjoy the fruits of his labor. If the government has first claim on his property he must learn to genuflect before it. When the right of property is abrogated, all the other rights of the individual are undermined, and to speak of the sovereign citizen who has no absolute right to property is to talk nonsense. It is like saying that the slave is free because he is allowed to do anything he wants to do (even vote, if you wish) except to own what he produces.




        — Frank Chodorov, The Freeman [August 1990





        --bob & lou












        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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