Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Dag on "Corporations"!

Expand Messages
  • Dag
    AND... they ll be held personally criminally liable if they kill people, pollute others property, defraud their customers, etc. Unlike our current system in
    Message 1 of 34 , Jul 10, 2014
      AND... they'll be held personally criminally liable if they kill people, pollute others' property, defraud their customers, etc. Unlike our current system in which the individuals responsible may get a bonus and the corporation itself may pay a fine that will just be considered "the cost of doing business". By what moral principle may a government absolve one set of individuals from being personally liable for damage they do to others? Again... government is the problem.








      ________________________________
      From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      To: 'Dag' <dag_gano@...>; 'Don Fredrick' <colony14@...>; 'Daniel J Conner' <conner2or@...>; PoliticalForum@...; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: 'brian hensler' <cbhensler@...>; 'Algae5636' <algae5636@...>; 'Sergeant Freedom' <sergeantfreedom@...>; "'Num1Mema@...'" <num1mema@...>; 'Robin Crane' <patriot451@...>; 'Weasels' <weasel@yahoogroups.com>; 'Gerilynn Tarvin' <geriohmy@...>; "'Chirho33@...'" <chirho33@...>; jwsblue1@...; "'ShadysLife@...'" <shadyslife@...>; 'earn4462' <earn4462@...>; 'Advanced Studies' <advancedstudiesca@...>; 'Richard Darrell' <harleymanfl@...>; davidwin@...; 'Elyse' <usmcdaughter1@...>; 'K Robert' <anakahamon@...>; 'ARIF KHAN' <arif12@...>; 'D Divine' <d3869@...>; 'Daniel Embody' <drecpa@...>; 'margaret hemenway' <ducky4817@...>; "'Helbighelbigdennis@...'" <helbighelbigdennis@...>; 'Jude Garner' <jgtea@...>; 'Jimmy jamshaid' <jimmyjum@...>; 'Jmills' <jmills9786@...>; 'Michael Master' <mcmast@...>; 'Nick'
      <nphilippov@...>; 'Judith' <pasharabit@...>; "'Pred544@...'" <pred544@...>; sirguy2003@...; 'Therese Dietin' <tdietlin@...>; "'Wilemd@...'" <wilemd@...>; 'Stephen' <74526.3101@...>; "'BayWife@...'" <baywife@...>; caesarfmchavez@...; ckonola@...; "'CougarDen@...'" <cougarden@...>; 'Good Guys' <dagoodguys@...>; davidw1235@...; ebuckner@...; 'oracle' <oracle@...>; 'cynthia' <happycyn1@...>; "'Hillbillytrailer@...'" <hillbillytrailer@...>; 'MyJmach .' <jmach499@...>; 'Joel Rachmiel' <joelrachmiel@...>; "'JPassgo@...'" <jpassgo@...>; 'judy fuller' <judyfuller007@...>; 'Lance Pedriana' <lance_@...>; 'maximus' <maximus475@...>; pconner@...; 'guedo carter' <postherguy@...>; 'Keith Caldwell' <1pocketpoolplayer@...>; 'Christopher Lund' <mccloedskilt@...>;

      robertcirillo@...; beau@...; 'Ruthie June' <msunderestimated@...>; 'jimibee22' <jimibee22@...>; boldsaber@...; 'trggerhppy13' <trggerhppy13@...>; 'Michelle Seltzer' <michelle.seltzer@...>; microdhes@...; 'Marsha Ventor' <marshrn40@...>; "'mccloediii @...'" <mccloediii@...>; 'David Lindstedt' <semperfidave@...>; 'Lescotti' <lascoti@...>; 'ladywindsor1 .' <ladywindsor1@...>; apassaro@...; 'ez4u2cme' <ez4u2cme@...>; 'Keith' <uwhunter@...>; "'JReed62254@...'" <jreed62254@...>; 'Mike Vito' <hemilight@...>
      Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 2:39 PM

      Subject: Dag on "Corporations"!





      Exactly, Dag!
       
      Without the force of the State, “corporations” are just groups of people organized to operate a business that can ONLY succeed and prosper by continually meeting or exceeding the demands of the consumer-bosses for the highest quality goods/services at the lowest price.
       
      --bob & LOU
       
       
      From:Dag [mailto:dag_gano@...]
      Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 1:08 PM
      Subject: Re: Al's "logic"??
       
      Where do these "lefties" get this idea that us "righties" "love and have deep faith in corporations"? I think that's just more warmed-over, 100-year-old Marxist crap that's been repackaged and repeated so many time nobody knows where it came from but many just take it on... faith.
       
      Personally, as a "rightie", I stand with Thomas Jefferson in our belief that corporations, as we know them, should not be allowed to exist. "Corporation" does NOT equal "business" or "free marker".
       
      What most people fail to grasp -- and I've said this here before -- is that a CORPORATION is a creation of GOVERNMENT. A corporation, by its very nature and at it's foundations, is an unnatural interference by government in the free market. When a state government creates a corporation, it grants it a charter and certain "super powers" that no individual has, primarily the absolution of personal liability and responsibility.
       
      So, once again... Government is not the solution -- government is the problem. You don't like corporations? Then tell you state Secretary of State to stop granting corporate charters!
       
       
       
       


      ________________________________


      From:Don Fredrick <colony14@...>
      To: Daniel J Conner <conner2or@...>
      Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 11:37 AM
      Subject: Re: Al's "logic"??
       
      The answer should be obvious: No one forces you to buy a product or service from a particular corporation. You can always take your business elsewhere. But the government acts through force. There is nothing voluntary about your relationship with the government.
      To argue that we "control" the government with our votes is meaningless. I get outvoted all the time by voters who could not care about how the government restricts my liberties and abrogates my rights. A bare majority of the voters can essentially strip me of my rights. No corporation can do that. Even if I am outnumbered 50,000-to-1 by people who like a particular company's products, I am not forced by them to shop there. Microsoft's Word may outsell everything else, but I am still free to use Open Office. (In fact, Open Office is free, unlike MS Word.)
       
       
      On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Daniel J Conner <conner2or@...> wrote:
      CB, your response brings up a question and I will ask it of everyone.  Why do so many righties, especially those who align themselves with Bob, seem to hate the state / government, but seem to love and have deep faith in corporations.  They are pretty much the same:  groups of human beings, organized to accomplish specific or general goals.  The primary difference is that the state gets the funds it needs to accomplish it's goals by taxation of the people for whom it works, and corporations get their initial funds from investors, and then continuing funds from the sale of products or services the corporation produces.  In democratic governments, the people who pay the taxes also get to choose the people within the government, and therefore hold power over their government.  Within the corporation, the investors have input on those who run the corporation, and just like in government, the corporation works for the benefit of their investors.
       The primary difference, it seems to me, between a corporation and a government, is that the democratic form of government is set up to protect and serve the best interests of the majority of the population; a corporation is set up to serve only it's small number of investors, and the greater good of the entire population, it's customers,is a secondary consideration.  
      >If man didn't create the state then who did?
      >
      >
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: cbhensler <cbhensler@...>
      >To: algae5636 <algae5636@...>; bobalou <bobalou@...>; sergeantfreedom <sergeantfreedom@...>
      >Cc: conner2or <conner2or@...>; colony14 <colony14@...>; num1mema <num1mema@...>; patriot451 <patriot451@...>; weasel <weasel@yahoogroups.com>; geriohmy <geriohmy@...>; chirho33 <chirho33@...>; jwsblue1 <jwsblue1@...>; shadyslife <shadyslife@...>; earn4462 <earn4462@...>; advancedstudiesca <advancedstudiesca@...>; harleymanfl <harleymanfl@...>; dag_gano <dag_gano@...>; davidwin <davidwin@...>; usmcdaughter1 <usmcdaughter1@...>; anakahamon <anakahamon@...>; arif12 <arif12@...>; d3869 <d3869@...>; drecpa <drecpa@...>; ducky4817 <ducky4817@...>; helbighelbigdennis <helbighelbigdennis@...>; jgtea <jgtea@...>; jimmyjum <jimmyjum@...>; jmills9786 <jmills9786@...>; mcmast <mcmast@...>; nphilippov <nphilippov@...>; pasharabit <pasharabit@...>; pred544 <pred544@...>; sirguy2003 <sirguy2003@...>;
      tdietlin <tdietlin@...>; wilemd <wilemd@...>; 74526.3101 <74526.3101@...>; baywife <baywife@...>; caesarfmchavez <caesarfmchavez@...>; ckonola <ckonola@...>; cougarden <cougarden@...>; dagoodguys <dagoodguys@...>; davidw1235 <davidw1235@...>; ebuckner <ebuckner@...>; oracle <oracle@...>; happycyn1 <happycyn1@...>; hillbillytrailer <hillbillytrailer@...>; jmach499 <jmach499@...>; joelrachmiel <joelrachmiel@...>; jpassgo <jpassgo@...>; judyfuller007 <judyfuller007@...>; lance_ <lance_@...>; maximus475 <maximus475@...>; pconner <pconner@...>; postherguy <postherguy@...>; 1pocketpoolplayer <1pocketpoolplayer@...>; mccloedskilt <mccloedskilt@...>; robertcirillo <robertcirillo@...>; beau <beau@...>; msunderestimated <msunderestimated@...>; jimibee22 <jimibee22@...>; boldsaber <boldsaber@...>;
      trggerhppy13 <trggerhppy13@...>; michelle.seltzer <michelle.seltzer@...>; microdhes <microdhes@...>; marshrn40 <marshrn40@...>; mccloediii <mccloediii@...>; semperfidave <semperfidave@...>; lascoti <lascoti@...>; ladywindsor1 <ladywindsor1@...>; apassaro <apassaro@...>; ez4u2cme <ez4u2cme@...>; uwhunter <uwhunter@...>; jreed62254 <jreed62254@...>; hemilight <hemilight@...>
      >Sent: Thu, Jul 10, 2014 2:17 am
      >Subject: Re: Al's "logic"??
      >If man didn't create the state then who did?
      >
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: algae5636 <algae5636@...>
      >To: bobalou <bobalou@...>; cbhensler <cbhensler@...>; sergeantfreedom <sergeantfreedom@...>
      >Cc: conner2or <conner2or@...>; colony14 <colony14@...>; num1mema <num1mema@...>; patriot451 <patriot451@...>; weasel <weasel@yahoogroups.com>; geriohmy <geriohmy@...>; chirho33 <chirho33@...>; jwsblue1 <jwsblue1@...>; shadyslife <shadyslife@...>; earn4462 <earn4462@...>; advancedstudiesca <advancedstudiesca@...>; harleymanfl <harleymanfl@...>; dag_gano <dag_gano@...>; davidwin <davidwin@...>; usmcdaughter1 <usmcdaughter1@...>; anakahamon <anakahamon@...>; arif12 <arif12@...>; d3869 <d3869@...>; drecpa <drecpa@...>; ducky4817 <ducky4817@...>; helbighelbigdennis <helbighelbigdennis@...>; jgtea <jgtea@...>; jimmyjum <jimmyjum@...>; jmills9786 <jmills9786@...>; mcmast <mcmast@...>; nphilippov <nphilippov@...>; pasharabit <pasharabit@...>; pred544 <pred544@...>; sirguy2003 <sirguy2003@...>;
      tdietlin <tdietlin@...>; wilemd <wilemd@...>; 74526.3101 <74526.3101@...>; baywife <baywife@...>; caesarfmchavez <caesarfmchavez@...>; ckonola <ckonola@...>; cougarden <cougarden@...>; dagoodguys <dagoodguys@...>; davidw1235 <davidw1235@...>; ebuckner <ebuckner@...>; oracle <oracle@...>; happycyn1 <happycyn1@...>; hillbillytrailer <hillbillytrailer@...>; jmach499 <jmach499@...>; joelrachmiel <joelrachmiel@...>; jpassgo <jpassgo@...>; judyfuller007 <judyfuller007@...>; lance_ <lance_@...>; maximus475 <maximus475@...>; pconner <pconner@...>; postherguy <postherguy@...>; 1pocketpoolplayer <1pocketpoolplayer@...>; mccloedskilt <mccloedskilt@...>; robertcirillo <robertcirillo@...>; beau <beau@...>; msunderestimated <msunderestimated@...>; jimibee22 <jimibee22@...>; boldsaber <boldsaber@...>;
      trggerhppy13 <trggerhppy13@...>; michelle.seltzer <michelle.seltzer@...>; microdhes <microdhes@...>; marshrn40 <marshrn40@...>; mccloediii <mccloediii@...>; semperfidave <semperfidave@...>; lascoti <lascoti@...>; ladywindsor1 <ladywindsor1@...>; apassaro <apassaro@...>; ez4u2cme <ez4u2cme@...>; uwhunter <uwhunter@...>; jreed62254 <jreed62254@...>; hemilight <hemilight@...>
      >Sent: Thu, Jul 10, 2014 4:06 am
      >Subject: Re: Al's "logic"??
      >Lol.
      >Thanks but I don't really have any use for a "great victory".
      >I'm a poet, and have no qualms about using verbal imagery-- including "straw men"-- instead of verbal logic to communicate. 
      >This is a conversation,  not a contest.  It's neither a win-lose, nor a win-win proposition.  Lordy.  I don't sing to people so I can walk away with "victories".  And it ain't why I talk to people either. 
      >:-)

      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      >Sent: Wed, Jul 9, 2014 9:59 pm
      >Subject: Al's "logic"??
      >Al, if “"Mother Nature" created the state, not man. ” is logical, then you’re using a form of logic with which I’m unfamiliar.

      >“Social organization-- including its enforcement-- is animal instinctive stuff that we share with the baboons among many other of our fellow critters.  Our ancestors "woke up" to consciousness as you know it, already living in an enforced social organization.  That's what kept them alive long enough to become us.” Does seem logical and probably true.

      >Since I didn’t say that which you claim I said:  “Now you come alongh saying the way we survived to be what we are is immoral.
      >Sounds to me like just one more tweaked version of original sin.”, your statement is what we’d sorta call a straw man.  So go ahead and knock it down & claim a great victory.

      >--bob
      >From:algae5636@... [mailto:algae5636@...]
      >Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 12:58 PM
      >Subject: Re: Government Success Stories ... NOT!

      >Lol.
      >What I've said is factual, logical and reasonable in the light of our knowledge of prehistory, evolution, biology, physiology and psychology.  And you've made no real effort to directly contradict any of what I've said here in our li'l free market of ideas. 
      >So I think the reason you don't get it is free-market "customer's choice" emotional:
      >You don't want it.
      >:-)


      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      >Sent: Wed, Jul 9, 2014 1:03 am
      >Subject: RE: Government Success Stories ... NOT!
      >You’re absolutely correct on that one, Al.  I certainly don’t get it  … if “it” is what you’ve just typed below.

      >J

      >--bob

      >From:algae5636@... [mailto:algae5636@...]
      >Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 7:06 PM
      >To: bobalou@...; cbhensler@...; Subject: Re: Government Success Stories ... NOT!

      >You still don't get it.
      >Like I said, Bob--
      >"Mother Nature" created the state, not man.  Social organization-- including its enforcement-- is animal instinctive stuff that we share with the baboons among many other of our fellow critters.  Our ancestors "woke up" to consciousness as you know it, already living in an enforced social organization.  That's what kept them alive long enough to become us. 
      >
      >Now you come alongh saying the way we survived to be what we are is immoral.
      >Sounds to me like just one more tweaked version of original sin.
      >:-)

      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      >Sent: Tue, Jul 8, 2014 5:52 pm
      >Subject: RE: Government Success Stories ... NOT!
      >[Bo7b:] Regardless of why people created the State, Al, if the goal is the greatest good for the greatest number, or if the goal is lasting peace, prosperity, progress and freedom, we must build the Win-Win free market volunteer society … without the Sate, since the State leads us to lasting war, poverty, regression and servitude.

      >[Bo7b:] –bob
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: algae5636 <algae5636@...>
      >Sent: Mon, Jul 7, 2014 6:29 pm
      >Subject: Re: Government Success Stories ... NOT!
      >Way back when homo sapiens first got sapient enough to think about it, he was already living in a tribal social structure, complete with governance and guidance by its senior members. 
      >Your idea that people created government and/or the state for self-conscious reasons is contradicted by our scientific knowledge of evolution and prehistory.
      >:-)

      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Bob Wynman <bobalou@...>
      >Sent: Mon, Jul 7, 2014 11:08 am
      >Subject: RE: Government Success Stories ... NOT!
      >Sure, Tony, people who are unable or unwilling to produce for their sustenance and are too risk-adverse to steal from their neighbors might create the State to do their stealing for them.  And yes, people have been ruled by various forms of the State forever .. they knew of no other option.

      >But people willing and able to take responsibility for their own lives would never create such an immoral and ineffective entity as the State if they knew of other better options.


      >We are providing those options. 

      >Pretty scary, eh!?

      >--bob

      >From:Sergeant Freedom [mailto:sergeantfreedom@...]
      >Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 7:14 PM
      >To: Bob Wynman
      >Subject: Re: Government Success Stories

      >You are completely wrong Bob.  If... ALL those things (if enough people wanted them) ...
      >If enough people want them. . . then they CREATE GOVERNMENT to make it happen.  The people of this earth do not sit back and wait for some fucking rich guy to, out of profit motive, provide a service, when the people can just create GOVERNMENT and do it for themselves and also at the same time have some measure of CONTROL over it.
      >
      >Corporations are DICTATORSHIPS.  The Rich CEO or Owner is GOD that nobody can question, he can do what he wants, when he wants, and he rules like GOD over the business, his word is final.  Most human beings do not like that, so they prefer to provide services through GOVERNMENT where they can elect and fire the owners through democracy.
      >
      >Your system does not work and leads to slavery Bob.  Leads to chaos and misery and squalor.
      >Humans have government and have had them for centuries, not because they don't work, but because it is the only thing that does.

      >On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Bob Wynman <bobalou@...> wrote:
      >That is completely false, Daniel.  Without the bureaucratic interventionism of the State, ALL those things (if enough people wanted them) would be provided by the greedy entrepreneurs, technologists and investors for the purpose of providing them with profit.
      >> 
      >>In a free society, those greedy entrepreneurs, technologists and investors create the stability, order and cooperation necessary for the optimal functioning of society.  The State’s bureaucratic interventionism disrupts order, causes recessions, depressions, inflation, war, poverty, regression and servitude.  Otherwise, it’s a great system!
      >> 
      >>Civilization exists in spite OF the State.
      >> 
      >>--bob & lou
      >> 
      >> 
      >>From:Daniel J Conner [mailto:conner2or@...]
      >>Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 6:37 PM
      >>To: colony14@...;
      >>
      >>Subject: Re: Government Success Stories
      >> 
      >>For the record, without the "government" there would be no nuclear power plants, no arms industry, no transcontinental railroad, no interstate highway system, no maned moon mission, no victory in WW2, and so many other things we take for granted today.  The government maintains stability needed for Wall Street to function; the government judiciary system allows corporations to function successfully; local police forces, along with courts, protect small businesses and allow them to operate; civilized society exists because of government.  
      >> 
      >>>Also for the record, the Industrial Revolution, capitalism, and hard-working American entrepreneurs are what created the nation's wealth - not federal bureaucrats. The greatness of America comes from what its people do, not from what the government does. The United States has been most productive when the government stayed the hell out of the way.
      >> 
      >>-----Original Message-----
      >>From: Don Fredrick <colony14@...>
      >>To: Sergeant Freedom <sergeantfreedom@...>
      >><hemilight@...>
      >>Sent: Sun, Jul 6, 2014 5:21 pm
      >>Subject: Re: Government Success Stories
      >>For the record the Dark Ages ended well before the founding of the United States. Uncle Sam had nothing to do with it.
      >>Also for the record, the Industrial Revolution, capitalism, and hard-working American entrepreneurs are what created the nation's wealth - not federal bureaucrats. The greatness of America comes from what its people do, not from what the government does. The United States has been most productive when the government stayed the hell out of the way.
      >> 
      >[Bo7b:] -[Bo7b:] ---------------------------------

      >Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.
      >~Nikita Khrushchev, Russian Soviet politician 
      >  
      >When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm beginning to believe it.
      >~Quoted in 'Clarence Darrow for the Defense' by Irving Stone.

      >Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel.
      >~John Quinton, American actor/writer

      >--bob & lou




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bob Wynman
      That “balance” you suggest ‘twixt freedom & slavery has never “worked” & never can, Robin. The State is a utopian, impossible concept, totally
      Message 34 of 34 , Dec 18 10:03 PM
        That “balance” you suggest ‘twixt freedom & slavery has never “worked” & never can, Robin. The State is a utopian, impossible concept, totally incompatible with lasting peace, prosperity and freedom.





        “There can be no compromise between freedom and government controls; to accept “just a few controls” is to surrender the principle of inalienable individual rights and to substitute for it the principle of the government’s unlimited, arbitrary power, thus delivering oneself into gradual enslavement. As an example of this process, observe the present domestic policy of the United States.


        <http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-works/the-virtue-of-selfishness.html>


        “Doesn’t Life Require Compromise?”
        <http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-works/the-virtue-of-selfishness.html> The Virtue of Selfishness, 68 ”


        --bob & lou





        From: Robin M Crane [mailto:patriot451@...]
        Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 4:12 AM
        To: Dag
        Cc: Bob Wynman; Don Fredrick; Daniel J Conner; PoliticalForum@...; Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com; Rightisright@yahoogroups.com; whateverreturns@yahoogroups.com; whatnowdebate@yahoogroups.com; worldwide_politics@yahoogroups.com; brian hensler; Algae5636; Sergeant Freedom; Num1Mema@...; Weasels; Gerilynn Tarvin; Chirho33@...; jwsblue1@...; ShadysLife@...; earn4462; Advanced Studies; Richard Darrell; davidwin@...; Elyse; K Robert; ARIF KHAN; D Divine; Daniel Embody; margaret hemenway; Helbighelbigdennis@...; Jude Garner; Jimmy jamshaid; Jmills; Michael Master; Nick; Judith; Pred544@...; sirguy2003@...; Therese Dietin; Wilemd@...; Stephen; BayWife@...; caesarfmchavez@...; ckonola@...; CougarDen@...; Good Guys; davidw1235@...; ebuckner@...; oracle; cynthia; Hillbillytrailer@...; MyJmach .; Joel Rachmiel; JPassgo@...; judy fuller; Lance Pedriana; maximus; pconner@...; guedo carter; Keith Caldwell; Christopher Lund; robertcirillo@...; beau@...; Ruthie June; jimibee22; boldsaber@...; trggerhppy13; Michelle Seltzer; microdhes@...; Marsha Ventor; mccloediii @...; David Lindstedt; Lescotti; ladywindsor1 .; apassaro@...; ez4u2cme; Keith; JReed62254@...; Mike Vito
        Subject: Re: Dag on "Corporations"!





        Where would we be WITHOUT corporations. In the Dark Ages.





        The solution is not simple-minded, impractical, and ineffective advocacy of a world without corporations. What's needed is lots of hard work, over the long term, by citizens devoted to bringing corporations under the control of government for the public good.





        BALANCE between the private economic sector, government, and civil society works. We are terribly out of balance right now, and those who blame government for everything are MOST responsible for breaking that balance. The attacks on the very concept of government constitute active dictatorship of totally unaccountable corporate hegemony.




        Sent from my iPad, by Robin Crane




        On Jul 10, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Dag <dag_gano@... <mailto:dag_gano@...> > wrote:


        AND... they'll be held personally criminally liable if they kill people, pollute others' property, defraud their customers, etc. Unlike our current system in which the individuals responsible may get a bonus and the corporation itself may pay a fine that will just be considered "the cost of doing business". By what moral principle may a government absolve one set of individuals from being personally liable for damage they do to others? Again... government is the problem.





        [Bo7b:] ------------------------ -[Bo7b:] ---------------------------------





        Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.


        ~Nikita Khrushchev, Russian Soviet politician





        When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm beginning to believe it.


        ~Quoted in 'Clarence Darrow for the Defense' by Irving Stone.





        Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel.


        ~John Quinton, American actor/writer





        --bob & lou





















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.