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Taxation Is not "Sharing" & look at all the justifications for force.

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  • Robin Crane
    Robin Crane WWP Invitee (patriot451@gmail.com) Bobalou is pretty good at rationalizing. How could you even begin to understand the worldview that considers
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 19, 2013
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      Robin Crane WWP Invitee (patriot451@...) Bobalou is pretty good at rationalizing. How could you even begin to understand the worldview that considers the welfare of the community, of neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general to be a desirable end and services/investment in human beings something worth sacrificing for?

      Selfishness is blind. It may ever be thus. We just can't let the selfish take all the power.

      WV WWP Email member and special friend of the cyber personality known as Automatic Lie (microdhses@...) Yes, and isn't it amazing that most on this list are fine with force, yet get indignant if you describe them as authoritarian?

      Then again, what else can we expect on this non-intellectual list? Did
      you see that one idiot, who instead of trying to defend his position when I put him on the spot, just advised me to ''take a dump''!!!!! That's about the level here, and why I usually don't bother writing in anymore.
    • Bob Wynman
      Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@wynman.com) Robin, rational selfishness is one of human s greatest virtues. The rational (non-coercive)
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 19, 2013
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        Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@...) Robin, rational selfishness is one of human's greatest virtues. The rational (non-coercive) pursuit of one's self interest produces, as a side benefit, a huge improvement in the welfare, happiness and quality of life of everyone, especially including the po' folk that the altruists and socialists falsely claim to want to help.

        Stealing from productive people to give to politicians an po' folk helps no one. It's a disincentive for future production of values and it forces the po' folk to be dependent on the thief. Not a good system, Robin.

        While I'd guess it's highly unlikely that you could ever get past the title of Auntie Ayn's li'l book, "The Virtue of Selfishness", others might be able to do so & thus gain the benefits of a bit of rationality (not rationalism, Robin ... there's a difference).

        "
        The Objectivist ethics proudly advocates and upholds rational selfishness—which means: the values required for man’s survival qua man—which means: the values required for human survival—not the values produced by the desires, the emotions, the “aspirations,” the feelings, the whims or the needs of irrational brutes, who have never outgrown the primordial practice of human sacrifices, have never discovered an industrial society and can conceive of no self-interest but that of grabbing the loot of the moment.

        The Objectivist ethics holds that human good does not require human sacrifices and cannot be achieved by the sacrifice of anyone to anyone. It holds that the rational interests of men do not clash—that there is no conflict of interests among men who do not desire the unearned, who do not make sacrifices nor accept them, who deal with one another as traders, giving value for value.



        “The Objectivist Ethics,”
        The Virtue of Selfishness, 31"



        --bob


        Robin Crane WWP Invitee (patriot451@...) Bobalou is pretty good at rationalizing. How could you even begin to understand the worldview that considers the welfare of the community, of neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general to be a desirable end and services/investment in human beings something worth sacrificing for?

        Selfishness is blind. It may ever be thus. We just can't let the selfish take all the power.
      • Doug Tozier
        Doug Tozier WWP Email Member (tozierpatriot@live.com) Or put more simply: we all practice welfare every day, with or without the state, which begs the
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 21, 2013
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          Doug Tozier WWP Email Member (tozierpatriot@...) Or put more simply: we all practice welfare every day, with or without the state, which begs the question: why do we nee the state to regulate our philanthropy? It is no longer philanthropy when we are told how much to "give", and then the state takes a portion of that for its own benefit instead of actually transferring it to the needy. But if my productivity is held back by the state, then I have less with which to be philanthropic. Considering the perpetuation of poverty in this country, it is a lose-lose situation that cannot ever be resolved, leading to increased abuse by the state of the true producers and earners, essentially killing the middle class, from whom most of said revenue is stolen.

          You guys criticize VS, while embracing this fantasy of public welfare that has proven itself to be ineffective! You can say your garbage can contains roses, but the smell indicates otherwise.

          Doug

          Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@...) Robin, rational
          selfishness is one of human's greatest virtues. The rational
          (non-coercive) pursuit of one's self interest produces, as a side benefit, a
          huge improvement in the welfare, happiness and quality of life of everyone,
          especially including the po' folk that the altruists and socialists falsely
          claim to want to help.

          Stealing from
          productive people to give to politicians an po' folk helps no one. It's a
          disincentive for future production of values and it forces the po' folk to be
          dependent on the thief. Not a good system, Robin.

          While I'd guess
          it's highly unlikely that you could ever get past the title of Auntie Ayn's li'l
          book, "The Virtue of Selfishness", others might be able to do so & thus gain
          the benefits of a bit of rationality (not rationalism, Robin ... there's a
          difference).

          "
          The Objectivist ethics proudly advocates and upholds rational
          selfishness—which means: the values required for man’s survival
          qua man—which means: the values required for human
          survival—not the values produced by the desires, the emotions, the
          “aspirations,” the feelings, the whims or the needs of irrational brutes, who
          have never outgrown the primordial practice of human sacrifices, have never
          discovered an industrial society and can conceive of no self-interest but that
          of grabbing the loot of the moment.
          The Objectivist ethics holds that human good does not require human
          sacrifices and cannot be achieved by the sacrifice of anyone to anyone. It holds
          that the rational interests of men do not clash—that there is no
          conflict of interests among men who do not desire the unearned, who do not make
          sacrifices nor accept them, who deal with one another as traders,
          giving value for value.

          “The Objectivist Ethics,”
          The
          Virtue of Selfishness, 31"

          --bob
        • Bob Wynman
          Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@wynman.com) Robin, how could anyone who truly cares about the welfare of the community, of neighbors,
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 29, 2013
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            Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@...) Robin, how could anyone who truly cares about "the welfare of the community,
            of neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general" support a system based on
            the "legalized" theft of the property of "neighbors, countrymen, and humans
            in general" to support immoral politicians and their immoral friends??!?

            The coercive State is the WORST enemy of "the welfare of the community, of
            neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general", yet some folks who've been
            drugged by the indoctrination by State-controlled schools and media continue
            to believe, despite centuries of evidence to the contrary, that the damned
            State somehow benefits "the welfare of the community, of neighbors,
            countrymen, and humans in general".

            It's really amazing to anyone who's somehow avoided or gotten over that
            indoctrination.

            --bob & lou

            Robin Crane WWP Invitee (patriot451@...) Bobalou is pretty good at rationalizing. How could you even begin to understand the worldview that considers the welfare of the community, of neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general to be a desirable end and services/investment in human beings something worth sacrificing for?
            Selfishness is blind. It may ever be thus. We just can't let the selfish take all the power.

            WV WWP Email member and special friend of the cyber personality known as Automatic Lie (microdhses@...) Yes, and isn't it amazing that most on this list are fine with force, yet get indignant if you describe them as authoritarian?

            Then again, what else can we expect on this non-intellectual list? Did you see that one idiot, who instead of trying to defend his position when I put him on the spot, just advised me to ''take a dump''!!!!! That's about the level here, and why I usually don't bother writing in anymore.
          • audiolaw@...
            [Moderator s Note: A post begins with text written by the poster. der Hoaxster email group moderator (derhoaxster@gmail.com)] Automatic Lie, a liberty loathing
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 29, 2013
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              [Moderator's Note: A post begins with text written by the poster. der Hoaxster email group moderator (derhoaxster@...)]

              Automatic Lie, a liberty loathing loony lowdown larcenous litigious little'ol LA living lying lightfooted liberal lawyer lacking legitimacy (AudioLaw@...) Bob Wynman:

              Your question to Robin points out the old truism that in phiilosophy
              (and religion) he who controls word definitions controls the discussion.

              The simple answer to your question is to point out that it is a
              religious belief, relatively rare in human history, that taxation is theft.

              Since your god, or profit, Andrew Galambos didn't want to pay taxes,
              he redefined taxes as "theft". This was his religious pattern. He didn't
              like scientific testing of his economic faith, so he redefined the concept
              of "scientific method".

              But when discussing issues with the rest of the world, simply
              dismissing majority definitions as "indoctrination" doesn't strengthen an argument,
              but rather points out the lack of substance and the need for name-calling.

              Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@...) Robin, how could anyone who truly cares about "the welfare of the
              community, of neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general" support a system based
              on the "legalized" theft of the property of "neighbors, countrymen, and
              humans in general" to support immoral politicians and their immoral
              friends??!?
              Similarly, the concept of the "Voluntary Society" expressly excludes
              people voluntarily banding together to build societies and rules to govern
              those societies. You accept the concept of "voluntary" only to the extent
              that people voluntarily do what you want. If they disagree with you, and
              form unions, or govenments, you condemn them. Again, just using your own
              definition for a term doesn't make it so.
            • Conner2or@...
              Conner 2 WWP Member (Conner2or@aol.com) Audio, you are so correct. Bob Wynman s arguments only stand up if his definitions are accepted.................and
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 29, 2013
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                Conner 2 WWP Member (Conner2or@...) Audio, you are so correct. Bob Wynman's arguments only stand up if his
                definitions are accepted.................and intelligent people don't accept
                his definitions. However, for those very reasons, it is impossible to have
                a rational discussion with him (or his like minded comrades). He will
                never win this argument because he is wrong, but you will never win because he
                will never accept the almost universally accepted definitions of specific
                words (taxes, freedom, etc.). My suggestion, ignore him and his like
                minded "Voluntary Society" advocates, and refuse to give them a forum for their
                nonsense.

                Automatic Lie, a liberty loathing loony lowdown larcenous litigious little'ol LA living lying lightfooted liberal lawyer lacking legitimacy (AudioLaw@...) Similarly, the concept of the "Voluntary Society" expressly excludes
                people voluntarily banding together to build societies and rules to govern those
                societies. You accept the concept of "voluntary" only to the extent that
                people voluntarily do what you want. If they disagree with you, and form
                unions, or governments, you condemn them. Again, just using your own
                definition for a term doesn't make it so.
              • Algae5636@...
                Al J WWP Email Member and Baha i(Algae5636@aol.com ) I m sorry to hear about your losses by theft, and that you ve been being victimized for so long, but it s
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 30, 2013
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                  Al J WWP Email Member and Baha'i(Algae5636@... ) I'm sorry to hear about your losses by theft, and that you've been being victimized for so long, but it's hard to keep on empathizing with you when you keep right on living in what you have long and damn well known is a high-crime neighborhood.

                  :-)

                  Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@...) Robin, how could anyone who truly cares about "the welfare of the community,
                  of neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general" support a system based on
                  the "legalized" theft of the property of "neighbors, countrymen, and humans
                  in general" to support immoral politicians and their immoral friends??!?

                  The coercive State is the WORST enemy of "the welfare of the community, of
                  neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general", yet some folks who've been
                  drugged by the indoctrination by State-controlled schools and media continue
                  to believe, despite centuries of evidence to the contrary, that the damned
                  State somehow benefits "the welfare of the community, of neighbors,
                  countrymen, and humans in general".

                  It's really amazing to anyone who's somehow avoided or gotten over that
                  indoctrination.
                • Bob Wynman
                  Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@wynman.com) Thanks for your empathy, Al. Seems that most of the other neighborhoods on the planet are
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 30, 2013
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                    Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@...) Thanks for your empathy, Al.

                    Seems that most of the other neighborhoods on the planet are also high-crime areas, also under the heel of some theft-based State.

                    Ruff life, eh!

                    --bob & lou

                    Al J WWP Email Member and Baha'i(Algae5636@... ) I'm sorry to hear about your losses by theft, and that you've been being victimized for so long, but it's hard to keep on empathizing with you when you keep right on living in what you have long and damn well known is a high-crime neighborhood.

                    :-)
                  • audiolaw@...
                    Automatic Lie, a liberty loathing loony lowdown larcenous litigious little ol LA living lying lightfooted liberal lawyer lacking legitimacy (AudioLaw@aol.com)
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 30, 2013
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                      Automatic Lie, a liberty loathing loony lowdown larcenous litigious little'ol LA living lying lightfooted liberal lawyer lacking legitimacy (AudioLaw@...) Al,

                      Gotta remember that Bob Wynman stays in the neighborhood because of
                      his good, free, capitalist business.

                      Check out his website. His entire fortune depends on continuing sales
                      of worthless "supplements" which are sold over the TAXPAYER developed and
                      maintained internet, shipped over TAXPAYER built and maintained
                      infrastructure, leading to profits that he invests in TAXPAYER protected banks and
                      corporations.

                      Remember as well that Bob Wynman's career as a Galambist high priest
                      followed his career as a dentist. That earlier career was built on an
                      entirely TAXPAYER provide education and a TAXPAYER provided regulatory structure
                      that kept Bob Wynman's practice sheltered from competition from charlatan,
                      untrained, 'dentists'.

                      Bob Wynman has never, not one day, one hour or one second of his life
                      even attempted to live the "Voluntary Society" life that he preaches about
                      so constantly.

                      But like every fundagelical preacher, when people ask questions about
                      his "message" and inquire about what appear to be inconsistencies, his
                      automatic response is to shout that they are "misrepresenting" and "falsifying"
                      his religion.

                      Al J WWP Email Member and Baha'i(Algae5636@... ) I'm sorry to hear about your losses by theft, and that you've been being
                      victimized for so long, but it's hard to keep on empathizing with you when
                      you keep right on living in what you have long and damn well known is a
                      high-crime neighborhood.
                      :-)

                      Randist Bo7b aka Bob Wynman WWP Email Member (bobalou@...) Robin, how could anyone who truly cares about "the welfare of the
                      community, of neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general" support a system based
                      on
                      the "legalized" theft of the property of "neighbors, countrymen, and
                      humans
                      in general" to support immoral politicians and their immoral friends??!?

                      The coercive State is the WORST enemy of "the welfare of the community, of
                      neighbors, countrymen, and humans in general", yet some folks who've been
                      drugged by the indoctrination by State-controlled schools and media
                      continue
                      to believe, despite centuries of evidence to the contrary, that the damned
                      State somehow benefits "the welfare of the community, of neighbors,
                      countrymen, and humans in general".

                      It's really amazing to anyone who's somehow avoided or gotten over that
                      indoctrination.

                      --bob & lou
                    • Honkster
                      Do you have any evidence whatsoever that there is any such thing as a Galambist High Priest ? Automatic Lie, a liberty loathing loony lowdown larcenous
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 30, 2013
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                        Do you have any evidence whatsoever that there is any such thing as a "Galambist High Priest"?


                        Automatic Lie, a liberty loathing loony lowdown larcenous litigious little'ol LA living lying light-footed liberal lawyer lacking legitimacy (AudioLaw@...) (snip) Remember as well that Bob Wynman's career as a Galambist high priest followed his career as a dentist. (snip)
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