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Re: New mods to the hearth / restriction

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  • maxgasman
    Hi, Gareth! Are you talking about the silo, or what holes are at stake? Where and what? I cannot follow this, or be of any help as places are not clearly
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 1, 2011
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      Hi, Gareth!

      Are you talking about the silo, or what
      holes are at stake?

      Where and what?

      I cannot follow this, or be of any help
      as places are not clearly defined and a
      "starting point" not given.

      Photos 28.7.2011 still revile, that
      you are "in" the Doug Williams uninsulated
      style, instead of adopting complete
      insulation between the hearth-tube and the
      reduction tube...

      Perhaps it is hard to change style when
      trying to get something done in no-time...

      Time will tell...

      Max

      --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
      > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi bruce, theres good sense in that. I am
      > going to give it a whirl after making a
      > few small changes, chiefly, raising a lip
      > around each hole by about 10mm to hopefully
      > hold back any shut down tar, and a wall
      > around the outside with a drip lip over this
      > from the ledge above, into the recess
      > between the holes.
      > I'm also going to make a much more direct
      > copy of mikes design with maybe a half
      > way hole between that, that you both run.

      Snip

      Max
    • Gareth Woolley
      Hi max. I was refering to the holes in the top plate of the restriction, the moving piece, and building the sides up a little, like towers, so as to stop tar
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 2, 2011
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        Hi max. I was refering to the holes in the top plate of the restriction, the moving piece, and building the sides up a little, like towers, so as to stop tar (between burns) running out of the bottom of the restriction. I ve done this now and am about to start work on the air nozzles.
        I ve just read your post and am unsure of what you mean by insulating the hearth tube from the reduction tube, as in the 'Doug Williams uninsulated style'
        I ve tried looking through the photo albums for confirmation but cannot find the answer to this.
        How is the hearth fully insulated from the reduction tube?
        I have refactory insulation to wrap around the hearth zone and was advised not to wrap this as it would not need insulating as getting rid of heat is more important than keeping it in...
        I ve been looking at Mikes gasifier and from what i can see, the hearth zone(brake rotor) is bolted to the bottom of the hopper, with central restriction,and a further brake rotor bolted upside down to the bottom of the hearth, with the grate welded to the bottom lip.(reduction zone)
        Bruces gasifier looks much like this, although it is fabricated out of steel, with a tube for the reduction tube welded downwards from the central restriction, and the grate welded to the bottom of this tube.
        How are these insulated, one from the other? I must be missing something....
        Thanks Max
        G

        --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi, Gareth!
        >
        > Are you talking about the silo, or what
        > holes are at stake?
        >
        > Where and what?
        >
        > I cannot follow this, or be of any help
        > as places are not clearly defined and a
        > "starting point" not given.
        >
        > Photos 28.7.2011 still revile, that
        > you are "in" the Doug Williams uninsulated
        > style, instead of adopting complete
        > insulation between the hearth-tube and the
        > reduction tube...
        >
        > Perhaps it is hard to change style when
        > trying to get something done in no-time...
        >
        > Time will tell...
        >
        > Max
        >
        > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
        > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi bruce, theres good sense in that. I am
        > > going to give it a whirl after making a
        > > few small changes, chiefly, raising a lip
        > > around each hole by about 10mm to hopefully
        > > hold back any shut down tar, and a wall
        > > around the outside with a drip lip over this
        > > from the ledge above, into the recess
        > > between the holes.
        > > I'm also going to make a much more direct
        > > copy of mikes design with maybe a half
        > > way hole between that, that you both run.
        >
        > Snip
        >
        > Max
        >
      • maxgasman
        Hello, Gareth! Guessing you have hardly any time to rebuild things before your important occasions, but after that, when no schedule is like a Damocles sword
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 2, 2011
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          Hello, Gareth!

          Guessing you have hardly any time
          to rebuild things before your
          important occasions, but after that,
          when no schedule is like a Damocles
          sword hanging over your head...


          I assumed a ~350 mm diameter hearth-tube
          for you 3,5 litre Range Rover motor.

          This is the tube in which the nozzles
          would enter from an air-distributing
          mantle.

          On the flat bottom of this 350 mm
          cylindrical hearth tube stands the
          reduction tube, ~150-200 mm in diameter.

          The reduction tube lower end is welded
          (with rounding) to the flat hearth-tube
          bottom.

          So, the reduction-tube stands well
          insulated in the centre of the lower
          part of the hearth-tube.

          An example of this is the GEK, even though
          it has a conical reduction tube, resembling
          of the Swedish inverted V-hearth...

          Yes, you have missed the difference in
          building geometry; Doug Williams uses a
          naked tube hanging down from a
          restriction-plane, having the oxidation
          part above this plane.

          In the current construction there is no
          restriction-plane; the reduction-tube has
          an exchangeable restriction-ring, with or
          without a collar upward. The eventual
          collar is used if needed for trimming the
          height of the oxidation zone.


          My question:

          What was the point to change the Dough
          Williams restriction plane with good ash
          insulation of the oxidation area to a
          brake-disk with extra weight and extra
          heath losses?

          All you "had" to do with the Doug
          Williams construction was to keep the
          reduction tube in place and lower the
          restriction-plane down to the lower
          end of the restriction-tube...

          Widening the restriction tube a bit
          and putting a restriction-ring on the
          upper end...

          Well, Good luck with the important
          occasions and then take a break...

          Max

          --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
          "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > Hi max. I was refering to the holes
          > in the top plate of the restriction,
          > the moving piece, and building the sides
          > up a little, like towers, so as to stop
          > tar (between burns) running out of the
          > bottom of the restriction. I ve done this
          > now and am about to start work on the
          > air nozzles.
          > I ve just read your post and am unsure
          > of what you mean by insulating the hearth
          > tube from the reduction tube, as in the
          > 'Doug Williams uninsulated style'
          > I ve tried looking through the photo
          > albums for confirmation but cannot find
          > the answer to this.
          > How is the hearth fully insulated from
          > the reduction tube?
          > I have refractory insulation to wrap
          > around the hearth zone and was advised
          > not to wrap this as it would not need
          > insulating as getting rid of heat is
          > more important than keeping it in...
          > I ve been looking at Mikes gasifier
          > and from what i can see, the hearth
          > zone(brake rotor) is bolted to the
          > bottom of the hopper, with central
          > restriction,and a further brake rotor
          > bolted upside down to the bottom of
          > the hearth, with the grate welded to
          > the bottom lip.(reduction zone)
          > Bruces gasifier looks much like this,
          > although it is fabricated out of steel,
          > with a tube for the reduction tube
          > welded downwards from the central
          > restriction, and the grate welded to
          > the bottom of this tube.
          > How are these insulated, one from
          > the other? I must be missing something....
          > Thanks Max
          > G
          >
          > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
          > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi, Gareth!
          > >
          > > Are you talking about the silo, or what
          > > holes are at stake?
          > >
          > > Where and what?
          > >
          > > I cannot follow this, or be of any help
          > > as places are not clearly defined and a
          > > "starting point" not given.
          > >
          > > Photos 28.7.2011 still revile, that
          > > you are "in" the Doug Williams uninsulated
          > > style, instead of adopting complete
          > > insulation between the hearth-tube and the
          > > reduction tube...
          > >
          > > Perhaps it is hard to change style when
          > > trying to get something done in no-time...
          > >
          > > Time will tell...
          > >
          > > Max
          > >
          > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
          > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi bruce, theres good sense in that. I am
          > > > going to give it a whirl after making a
          > > > few small changes, chiefly, raising a lip
          > > > around each hole by about 10mm to hopefully
          > > > hold back any shut down tar, and a wall
          > > > around the outside with a drip lip over this
          > > > from the ledge above, into the recess
          > > > between the holes.
          > > > I'm also going to make a much more direct
          > > > copy of mikes design with maybe a half
          > > > way hole between that, that you both run.
          > >
          > > Snip
          > >
          > > Max
          > >
          >
        • Gareth Woolley
          Thanks Max for setting me straight. I was tinkering with the idea of a variable restriction. Mike has a 3 restriction and Bruce runs 6 -7 . Both run engines
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 2, 2011
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            Thanks Max for setting me straight.
            I was tinkering with the idea of a variable restriction. Mike has a 3" restriction and Bruce runs 6"-7".
            Both run engines bigger than mine,by about 700cc, Mike runs 1000-3000rpm, Bruce runs as fast as possible.
            I thought that having an alterable restriction would give me some tolerance in gasifier through flow of gas that may give me a more tailored restriction for my engine and run speed....
            I did notice with Dougs design that the wall of the lower ash/ gas catch tank is insulated....
            I was going to go with insulating the outer wall of the hearth/reduction, to keep heat in this area, but once the gas/ash leaves the grate, it is allowed to cool against the inside wall of the un-insulated ash catch tank, to aid its cooloing for the rest of the run to the engine...
            G

            --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Hello, Gareth!
            >
            > Guessing you have hardly any time
            > to rebuild things before your
            > important occasions, but after that,
            > when no schedule is like a Damocles
            > sword hanging over your head...
            >
            >
            > I assumed a ~350 mm diameter hearth-tube
            > for you 3,5 litre Range Rover motor.
            >
            > This is the tube in which the nozzles
            > would enter from an air-distributing
            > mantle.
            >
            > On the flat bottom of this 350 mm
            > cylindrical hearth tube stands the
            > reduction tube, ~150-200 mm in diameter.
            >
            > The reduction tube lower end is welded
            > (with rounding) to the flat hearth-tube
            > bottom.
            >
            > So, the reduction-tube stands well
            > insulated in the centre of the lower
            > part of the hearth-tube.
            >
            > An example of this is the GEK, even though
            > it has a conical reduction tube, resembling
            > of the Swedish inverted V-hearth...
            >
            > Yes, you have missed the difference in
            > building geometry; Doug Williams uses a
            > naked tube hanging down from a
            > restriction-plane, having the oxidation
            > part above this plane.
            >
            > In the current construction there is no
            > restriction-plane; the reduction-tube has
            > an exchangeable restriction-ring, with or
            > without a collar upward. The eventual
            > collar is used if needed for trimming the
            > height of the oxidation zone.
            >
            >
            > My question:
            >
            > What was the point to change the Dough
            > Williams restriction plane with good ash
            > insulation of the oxidation area to a
            > brake-disk with extra weight and extra
            > heath losses?
            >
            > All you "had" to do with the Doug
            > Williams construction was to keep the
            > reduction tube in place and lower the
            > restriction-plane down to the lower
            > end of the restriction-tube...
            >
            > Widening the restriction tube a bit
            > and putting a restriction-ring on the
            > upper end...
            >
            > Well, Good luck with the important
            > occasions and then take a break...
            >
            > Max
            >
            > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
            > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@>
            > > wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi max. I was refering to the holes
            > > in the top plate of the restriction,
            > > the moving piece, and building the sides
            > > up a little, like towers, so as to stop
            > > tar (between burns) running out of the
            > > bottom of the restriction. I ve done this
            > > now and am about to start work on the
            > > air nozzles.
            > > I ve just read your post and am unsure
            > > of what you mean by insulating the hearth
            > > tube from the reduction tube, as in the
            > > 'Doug Williams uninsulated style'
            > > I ve tried looking through the photo
            > > albums for confirmation but cannot find
            > > the answer to this.
            > > How is the hearth fully insulated from
            > > the reduction tube?
            > > I have refractory insulation to wrap
            > > around the hearth zone and was advised
            > > not to wrap this as it would not need
            > > insulating as getting rid of heat is
            > > more important than keeping it in...
            > > I ve been looking at Mikes gasifier
            > > and from what i can see, the hearth
            > > zone(brake rotor) is bolted to the
            > > bottom of the hopper, with central
            > > restriction,and a further brake rotor
            > > bolted upside down to the bottom of
            > > the hearth, with the grate welded to
            > > the bottom lip.(reduction zone)
            > > Bruces gasifier looks much like this,
            > > although it is fabricated out of steel,
            > > with a tube for the reduction tube
            > > welded downwards from the central
            > > restriction, and the grate welded to
            > > the bottom of this tube.
            > > How are these insulated, one from
            > > the other? I must be missing something....
            > > Thanks Max
            > > G
            > >
            > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
            > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hi, Gareth!
            > > >
            > > > Are you talking about the silo, or what
            > > > holes are at stake?
            > > >
            > > > Where and what?
            > > >
            > > > I cannot follow this, or be of any help
            > > > as places are not clearly defined and a
            > > > "starting point" not given.
            > > >
            > > > Photos 28.7.2011 still revile, that
            > > > you are "in" the Doug Williams uninsulated
            > > > style, instead of adopting complete
            > > > insulation between the hearth-tube and the
            > > > reduction tube...
            > > >
            > > > Perhaps it is hard to change style when
            > > > trying to get something done in no-time...
            > > >
            > > > Time will tell...
            > > >
            > > > Max
            > > >
            > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
            > > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi bruce, theres good sense in that. I am
            > > > > going to give it a whirl after making a
            > > > > few small changes, chiefly, raising a lip
            > > > > around each hole by about 10mm to hopefully
            > > > > hold back any shut down tar, and a wall
            > > > > around the outside with a drip lip over this
            > > > > from the ledge above, into the recess
            > > > > between the holes.
            > > > > I'm also going to make a much more direct
            > > > > copy of mikes design with maybe a half
            > > > > way hole between that, that you both run.
            > > >
            > > > Snip
            > > >
            > > > Max
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Mike LaRosa
            Hi Max, Gareth, and Jim, Have to love the English language where one word can mean so many different things. On my early double rotor units, the upper part of
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 2, 2011
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              Hi Max, Gareth, and Jim, Have to love the English language where one word can mean so many different things. On my early double rotor units, the upper part of the hourglass hearth is in relatively stagnant air (woodgas). This allows for enough cooling of the rotor to prevent damage to it but yet allow the heat to build up in it. Remember, it supports the lower rotor and grate and gets bounced around on the highway. I don't want it glowing and bending or stretching or cracking. On my latest trailer I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank and the lower rotor and grate are also supported by this tank. So, it is the upper rotor, the thin wall (1/8") of the tank and then the lower rotor all bolted together. I have packed the whole area around the upper rotor with ashes from the wood stove. When I saw it white hot in there the other day, I freaked out a bit. It seems to be just fine as there is probably an inch of ash and crap insulating things right now. The truck ran great on Sunday once I got the heck away from the parade (walking speed). Got up to 300F after the cyclone so I know it's done being constipated. I ran poplar in it for the parade. Regards, Mike LaRosa


              --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Hello, Gareth!
              >
              > Guessing you have hardly any time
              > to rebuild things before your
              > important occasions, but after that,
              > when no schedule is like a Damocles
              > sword hanging over your head...
              >
              >
              > I assumed a ~350 mm diameter hearth-tube
              > for you 3,5 litre Range Rover motor.
              >
              > This is the tube in which the nozzles
              > would enter from an air-distributing
              > mantle.
              >
              > On the flat bottom of this 350 mm
              > cylindrical hearth tube stands the
              > reduction tube, ~150-200 mm in diameter.
              >
              > The reduction tube lower end is welded
              > (with rounding) to the flat hearth-tube
              > bottom.
              >
              > So, the reduction-tube stands well
              > insulated in the centre of the lower
              > part of the hearth-tube.
              >
              > An example of this is the GEK, even though
              > it has a conical reduction tube, resembling
              > of the Swedish inverted V-hearth...
              >
              > Yes, you have missed the difference in
              > building geometry; Doug Williams uses a
              > naked tube hanging down from a
              > restriction-plane, having the oxidation
              > part above this plane.
              >
              > In the current construction there is no
              > restriction-plane; the reduction-tube has
              > an exchangeable restriction-ring, with or
              > without a collar upward. The eventual
              > collar is used if needed for trimming the
              > height of the oxidation zone.
              >
              >
              > My question:
              >
              > What was the point to change the Dough
              > Williams restriction plane with good ash
              > insulation of the oxidation area to a
              > brake-disk with extra weight and extra
              > heath losses?
              >
              > All you "had" to do with the Doug
              > Williams construction was to keep the
              > reduction tube in place and lower the
              > restriction-plane down to the lower
              > end of the restriction-tube...
              >
              > Widening the restriction tube a bit
              > and putting a restriction-ring on the
              > upper end...
              >
              > Well, Good luck with the important
              > occasions and then take a break...
              >
              > Max
              >
              > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
              > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@>
              > > wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi max. I was refering to the holes
              > > in the top plate of the restriction,
              > > the moving piece, and building the sides
              > > up a little, like towers, so as to stop
              > > tar (between burns) running out of the
              > > bottom of the restriction. I ve done this
              > > now and am about to start work on the
              > > air nozzles.
              > > I ve just read your post and am unsure
              > > of what you mean by insulating the hearth
              > > tube from the reduction tube, as in the
              > > 'Doug Williams uninsulated style'
              > > I ve tried looking through the photo
              > > albums for confirmation but cannot find
              > > the answer to this.
              > > How is the hearth fully insulated from
              > > the reduction tube?
              > > I have refractory insulation to wrap
              > > around the hearth zone and was advised
              > > not to wrap this as it would not need
              > > insulating as getting rid of heat is
              > > more important than keeping it in...
              > > I ve been looking at Mikes gasifier
              > > and from what i can see, the hearth
              > > zone(brake rotor) is bolted to the
              > > bottom of the hopper, with central
              > > restriction,and a further brake rotor
              > > bolted upside down to the bottom of
              > > the hearth, with the grate welded to
              > > the bottom lip.(reduction zone)
              > > Bruces gasifier looks much like this,
              > > although it is fabricated out of steel,
              > > with a tube for the reduction tube
              > > welded downwards from the central
              > > restriction, and the grate welded to
              > > the bottom of this tube.
              > > How are these insulated, one from
              > > the other? I must be missing something....
              > > Thanks Max
              > > G
              > >
              > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
              > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Hi, Gareth!
              > > >
              > > > Are you talking about the silo, or what
              > > > holes are at stake?
              > > >
              > > > Where and what?
              > > >
              > > > I cannot follow this, or be of any help
              > > > as places are not clearly defined and a
              > > > "starting point" not given.
              > > >
              > > > Photos 28.7.2011 still revile, that
              > > > you are "in" the Doug Williams uninsulated
              > > > style, instead of adopting complete
              > > > insulation between the hearth-tube and the
              > > > reduction tube...
              > > >
              > > > Perhaps it is hard to change style when
              > > > trying to get something done in no-time...
              > > >
              > > > Time will tell...
              > > >
              > > > Max
              > > >
              > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
              > > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi bruce, theres good sense in that. I am
              > > > > going to give it a whirl after making a
              > > > > few small changes, chiefly, raising a lip
              > > > > around each hole by about 10mm to hopefully
              > > > > hold back any shut down tar, and a wall
              > > > > around the outside with a drip lip over this
              > > > > from the ledge above, into the recess
              > > > > between the holes.
              > > > > I'm also going to make a much more direct
              > > > > copy of mikes design with maybe a half
              > > > > way hole between that, that you both run.
              > > >
              > > > Snip
              > > >
              > > > Max
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Gareth Woolley
              Hi mike! Whats with the water tank?? sounds like its pretty sweaty around the top rotor....1000 ish deg c only a few centimeteres away.... Any chance for a
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 3, 2011
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                Hi mike!
                Whats with the water tank?? sounds like its pretty sweaty around the top rotor....1000 ish deg c only a few centimeteres away....
                Any chance for a scheamatic drawing for your latest, or a slice through drawing??
                Whats the water for? or is this the condensate tank from the internal gutter??
                Cheers
                G

                --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Max, Gareth, and Jim, Have to love the English language where one word can mean so many different things. On my early double rotor units, the upper part of the hourglass hearth is in relatively stagnant air (woodgas). This allows for enough cooling of the rotor to prevent damage to it but yet allow the heat to build up in it. Remember, it supports the lower rotor and grate and gets bounced around on the highway. I don't want it glowing and bending or stretching or cracking. On my latest trailer I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank and the lower rotor and grate are also supported by this tank. So, it is the upper rotor, the thin wall (1/8") of the tank and then the lower rotor all bolted together. I have packed the whole area around the upper rotor with ashes from the wood stove. When I saw it white hot in there the other day, I freaked out a bit. It seems to be just fine as there is probably an inch of ash and crap insulating things right now. The truck ran great on Sunday once I got the heck away from the parade (walking speed). Got up to 300F after the cyclone so I know it's done being constipated. I ran poplar in it for the parade. Regards, Mike LaRosa
                >
                >
                > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hello, Gareth!
                > >
                > > Guessing you have hardly any time
                > > to rebuild things before your
                > > important occasions, but after that,
                > > when no schedule is like a Damocles
                > > sword hanging over your head...
                > >
                > >
                > > I assumed a ~350 mm diameter hearth-tube
                > > for you 3,5 litre Range Rover motor.
                > >
                > > This is the tube in which the nozzles
                > > would enter from an air-distributing
                > > mantle.
                > >
                > > On the flat bottom of this 350 mm
                > > cylindrical hearth tube stands the
                > > reduction tube, ~150-200 mm in diameter.
                > >
                > > The reduction tube lower end is welded
                > > (with rounding) to the flat hearth-tube
                > > bottom.
                > >
                > > So, the reduction-tube stands well
                > > insulated in the centre of the lower
                > > part of the hearth-tube.
                > >
                > > An example of this is the GEK, even though
                > > it has a conical reduction tube, resembling
                > > of the Swedish inverted V-hearth...
                > >
                > > Yes, you have missed the difference in
                > > building geometry; Doug Williams uses a
                > > naked tube hanging down from a
                > > restriction-plane, having the oxidation
                > > part above this plane.
                > >
                > > In the current construction there is no
                > > restriction-plane; the reduction-tube has
                > > an exchangeable restriction-ring, with or
                > > without a collar upward. The eventual
                > > collar is used if needed for trimming the
                > > height of the oxidation zone.
                > >
                > >
                > > My question:
                > >
                > > What was the point to change the Dough
                > > Williams restriction plane with good ash
                > > insulation of the oxidation area to a
                > > brake-disk with extra weight and extra
                > > heath losses?
                > >
                > > All you "had" to do with the Doug
                > > Williams construction was to keep the
                > > reduction tube in place and lower the
                > > restriction-plane down to the lower
                > > end of the restriction-tube...
                > >
                > > Widening the restriction tube a bit
                > > and putting a restriction-ring on the
                > > upper end...
                > >
                > > Well, Good luck with the important
                > > occasions and then take a break...
                > >
                > > Max
                > >
                > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@>
                > > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi max. I was refering to the holes
                > > > in the top plate of the restriction,
                > > > the moving piece, and building the sides
                > > > up a little, like towers, so as to stop
                > > > tar (between burns) running out of the
                > > > bottom of the restriction. I ve done this
                > > > now and am about to start work on the
                > > > air nozzles.
                > > > I ve just read your post and am unsure
                > > > of what you mean by insulating the hearth
                > > > tube from the reduction tube, as in the
                > > > 'Doug Williams uninsulated style'
                > > > I ve tried looking through the photo
                > > > albums for confirmation but cannot find
                > > > the answer to this.
                > > > How is the hearth fully insulated from
                > > > the reduction tube?
                > > > I have refractory insulation to wrap
                > > > around the hearth zone and was advised
                > > > not to wrap this as it would not need
                > > > insulating as getting rid of heat is
                > > > more important than keeping it in...
                > > > I ve been looking at Mikes gasifier
                > > > and from what i can see, the hearth
                > > > zone(brake rotor) is bolted to the
                > > > bottom of the hopper, with central
                > > > restriction,and a further brake rotor
                > > > bolted upside down to the bottom of
                > > > the hearth, with the grate welded to
                > > > the bottom lip.(reduction zone)
                > > > Bruces gasifier looks much like this,
                > > > although it is fabricated out of steel,
                > > > with a tube for the reduction tube
                > > > welded downwards from the central
                > > > restriction, and the grate welded to
                > > > the bottom of this tube.
                > > > How are these insulated, one from
                > > > the other? I must be missing something....
                > > > Thanks Max
                > > > G
                > > >
                > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                > > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi, Gareth!
                > > > >
                > > > > Are you talking about the silo, or what
                > > > > holes are at stake?
                > > > >
                > > > > Where and what?
                > > > >
                > > > > I cannot follow this, or be of any help
                > > > > as places are not clearly defined and a
                > > > > "starting point" not given.
                > > > >
                > > > > Photos 28.7.2011 still revile, that
                > > > > you are "in" the Doug Williams uninsulated
                > > > > style, instead of adopting complete
                > > > > insulation between the hearth-tube and the
                > > > > reduction tube...
                > > > >
                > > > > Perhaps it is hard to change style when
                > > > > trying to get something done in no-time...
                > > > >
                > > > > Time will tell...
                > > > >
                > > > > Max
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                > > > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hi bruce, theres good sense in that. I am
                > > > > > going to give it a whirl after making a
                > > > > > few small changes, chiefly, raising a lip
                > > > > > around each hole by about 10mm to hopefully
                > > > > > hold back any shut down tar, and a wall
                > > > > > around the outside with a drip lip over this
                > > > > > from the ledge above, into the recess
                > > > > > between the holes.
                > > > > > I'm also going to make a much more direct
                > > > > > copy of mikes design with maybe a half
                > > > > > way hole between that, that you both run.
                > > > >
                > > > > Snip
                > > > >
                > > > > Max
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Mike LaRosa
                Gareth, I have a tank right on the side of the hopper hooked to the gutter that can hold around a liter / quart of that crap . The condensate tank is after
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 3, 2011
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                  Gareth, I have a tank right on the side of the hopper hooked to the gutter that can hold around a liter / quart of that "crap". The condensate tank is after the cooler and before the large hay filter. The water comes out of that near clear. I pave the shoulders of the road with the stuff from the other tank. If I ever find time, I will probably put together a set of plans but I need to know this thing is OK to pass on. I only have around 250 miles on it now. It plugged up once so far. The double rotor is a genuine winner but I have already posted enough for any qualified person to build one. There are designs that will do way more than that but it takes a while to figure it out. You are on that path. I wonder if you are missing the point of the restriction when you overlayed 2 bolt patterns to open up more stuff ? The restriction IMHO is intended to funnel everything through the sun so no nasties get by. Any side path WILL be a problem. Trust me. A real reduction tube is even a better guarantee that all will be consumed or converted on it's way down. The tapered (hourglass) shape just makes sure that as the char heads for the grate that it will spread out and expose more surface area for reaction and then be ready to fall (get sucked) through the grate when it gets there.
                  The younger guys (and one older one) in Finland tried to explain all this to me 5 or 6 years ago but it is just an acquired taste and you have to learn by doing. You can watch all the movies you want. I know you have already been down the road and now it's just a matter of getting it cleaned up or actually, not making the mess in the first place.
                  I wish they had never put out the FEMA plans but then on the other hand, lots of folks learned from them ...
                  Whatchagonna do ? Call Ghostbusters ?
                  You'll get it soon !! .. Mike


                  --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi mike!
                  > Whats with the water tank?? sounds like its pretty sweaty around the top rotor....1000 ish deg c only a few centimeteres away....
                  > Any chance for a scheamatic drawing for your latest, or a slice through drawing??
                  > Whats the water for? or is this the condensate tank from the internal gutter??
                  > Cheers
                  > G
                  >
                  > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Max, Gareth, and Jim, Have to love the English language where one word can mean so many different things. On my early double rotor units, the upper part of the hourglass hearth is in relatively stagnant air (woodgas). This allows for enough cooling of the rotor to prevent damage to it but yet allow the heat to build up in it. Remember, it supports the lower rotor and grate and gets bounced around on the highway. I don't want it glowing and bending or stretching or cracking. On my latest trailer I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank and the lower rotor and grate are also supported by this tank. So, it is the upper rotor, the thin wall (1/8") of the tank and then the lower rotor all bolted together. I have packed the whole area around the upper rotor with ashes from the wood stove. When I saw it white hot in there the other day, I freaked out a bit. It seems to be just fine as there is probably an inch of ash and crap insulating things right now. The truck ran great on Sunday once I got the heck away from the parade (walking speed). Got up to 300F after the cyclone so I know it's done being constipated. I ran poplar in it for the parade. Regards, Mike LaRosa
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello, Gareth!
                  > > >
                  > > > Guessing you have hardly any time
                  > > > to rebuild things before your
                  > > > important occasions, but after that,
                  > > > when no schedule is like a Damocles
                  > > > sword hanging over your head...
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I assumed a ~350 mm diameter hearth-tube
                  > > > for you 3,5 litre Range Rover motor.
                  > > >
                  > > > This is the tube in which the nozzles
                  > > > would enter from an air-distributing
                  > > > mantle.
                  > > >
                  > > > On the flat bottom of this 350 mm
                  > > > cylindrical hearth tube stands the
                  > > > reduction tube, ~150-200 mm in diameter.
                  > > >
                  > > > The reduction tube lower end is welded
                  > > > (with rounding) to the flat hearth-tube
                  > > > bottom.
                  > > >
                  > > > So, the reduction-tube stands well
                  > > > insulated in the centre of the lower
                  > > > part of the hearth-tube.
                  > > >
                  > > > An example of this is the GEK, even though
                  > > > it has a conical reduction tube, resembling
                  > > > of the Swedish inverted V-hearth...
                  > > >
                  > > > Yes, you have missed the difference in
                  > > > building geometry; Doug Williams uses a
                  > > > naked tube hanging down from a
                  > > > restriction-plane, having the oxidation
                  > > > part above this plane.
                  > > >
                  > > > In the current construction there is no
                  > > > restriction-plane; the reduction-tube has
                  > > > an exchangeable restriction-ring, with or
                  > > > without a collar upward. The eventual
                  > > > collar is used if needed for trimming the
                  > > > height of the oxidation zone.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > My question:
                  > > >
                  > > > What was the point to change the Dough
                  > > > Williams restriction plane with good ash
                  > > > insulation of the oxidation area to a
                  > > > brake-disk with extra weight and extra
                  > > > heath losses?
                  > > >
                  > > > All you "had" to do with the Doug
                  > > > Williams construction was to keep the
                  > > > reduction tube in place and lower the
                  > > > restriction-plane down to the lower
                  > > > end of the restriction-tube...
                  > > >
                  > > > Widening the restriction tube a bit
                  > > > and putting a restriction-ring on the
                  > > > upper end...
                  > > >
                  > > > Well, Good luck with the important
                  > > > occasions and then take a break...
                  > > >
                  > > > Max
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@>
                  > > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi max. I was refering to the holes
                  > > > > in the top plate of the restriction,
                  > > > > the moving piece, and building the sides
                  > > > > up a little, like towers, so as to stop
                  > > > > tar (between burns) running out of the
                  > > > > bottom of the restriction. I ve done this
                  > > > > now and am about to start work on the
                  > > > > air nozzles.
                  > > > > I ve just read your post and am unsure
                  > > > > of what you mean by insulating the hearth
                  > > > > tube from the reduction tube, as in the
                  > > > > 'Doug Williams uninsulated style'
                  > > > > I ve tried looking through the photo
                  > > > > albums for confirmation but cannot find
                  > > > > the answer to this.
                  > > > > How is the hearth fully insulated from
                  > > > > the reduction tube?
                  > > > > I have refractory insulation to wrap
                  > > > > around the hearth zone and was advised
                  > > > > not to wrap this as it would not need
                  > > > > insulating as getting rid of heat is
                  > > > > more important than keeping it in...
                  > > > > I ve been looking at Mikes gasifier
                  > > > > and from what i can see, the hearth
                  > > > > zone(brake rotor) is bolted to the
                  > > > > bottom of the hopper, with central
                  > > > > restriction,and a further brake rotor
                  > > > > bolted upside down to the bottom of
                  > > > > the hearth, with the grate welded to
                  > > > > the bottom lip.(reduction zone)
                  > > > > Bruces gasifier looks much like this,
                  > > > > although it is fabricated out of steel,
                  > > > > with a tube for the reduction tube
                  > > > > welded downwards from the central
                  > > > > restriction, and the grate welded to
                  > > > > the bottom of this tube.
                  > > > > How are these insulated, one from
                  > > > > the other? I must be missing something....
                  > > > > Thanks Max
                  > > > > G
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Hi, Gareth!
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Are you talking about the silo, or what
                  > > > > > holes are at stake?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Where and what?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I cannot follow this, or be of any help
                  > > > > > as places are not clearly defined and a
                  > > > > > "starting point" not given.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Photos 28.7.2011 still revile, that
                  > > > > > you are "in" the Doug Williams uninsulated
                  > > > > > style, instead of adopting complete
                  > > > > > insulation between the hearth-tube and the
                  > > > > > reduction tube...
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Perhaps it is hard to change style when
                  > > > > > trying to get something done in no-time...
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Time will tell...
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Max
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > > > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Hi bruce, theres good sense in that. I am
                  > > > > > > going to give it a whirl after making a
                  > > > > > > few small changes, chiefly, raising a lip
                  > > > > > > around each hole by about 10mm to hopefully
                  > > > > > > hold back any shut down tar, and a wall
                  > > > > > > around the outside with a drip lip over this
                  > > > > > > from the ledge above, into the recess
                  > > > > > > between the holes.
                  > > > > > > I'm also going to make a much more direct
                  > > > > > > copy of mikes design with maybe a half
                  > > > > > > way hole between that, that you both run.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Snip
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Max
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Gareth Woolley
                  Thanks again Mike. Maybe i just need this so bad that I m seeing past the obvious! Ok. no more fusking about, i m gonna be all over it like a bad jacket
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 3, 2011
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                    Thanks again Mike.
                    Maybe i just need this so bad that I m seeing past the obvious! Ok. no more fusking about, i m gonna be all over it like a bad jacket tomorrow, and i m sticking to the plan!
                    I ve also emailed Stig to see if theres an old school gasifier kicking about. If i manage to come up trumps, i ll post all info and dimensions here for intrest.
                    Cheers
                    G

                    --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Gareth, I have a tank right on the side of the hopper hooked to the gutter that can hold around a liter / quart of that "crap". The condensate tank is after the cooler and before the large hay filter. The water comes out of that near clear. I pave the shoulders of the road with the stuff from the other tank. If I ever find time, I will probably put together a set of plans but I need to know this thing is OK to pass on. I only have around 250 miles on it now. It plugged up once so far. The double rotor is a genuine winner but I have already posted enough for any qualified person to build one. There are designs that will do way more than that but it takes a while to figure it out. You are on that path. I wonder if you are missing the point of the restriction when you overlayed 2 bolt patterns to open up more stuff ? The restriction IMHO is intended to funnel everything through the sun so no nasties get by. Any side path WILL be a problem. Trust me. A real reduction tube is even a better guarantee that all will be consumed or converted on it's way down. The tapered (hourglass) shape just makes sure that as the char heads for the grate that it will spread out and expose more surface area for reaction and then be ready to fall (get sucked) through the grate when it gets there.
                    > The younger guys (and one older one) in Finland tried to explain all this to me 5 or 6 years ago but it is just an acquired taste and you have to learn by doing. You can watch all the movies you want. I know you have already been down the road and now it's just a matter of getting it cleaned up or actually, not making the mess in the first place.
                    > I wish they had never put out the FEMA plans but then on the other hand, lots of folks learned from them ...
                    > Whatchagonna do ? Call Ghostbusters ?
                    > You'll get it soon !! .. Mike
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi mike!
                    > > Whats with the water tank?? sounds like its pretty sweaty around the top rotor....1000 ish deg c only a few centimeteres away....
                    > > Any chance for a scheamatic drawing for your latest, or a slice through drawing??
                    > > Whats the water for? or is this the condensate tank from the internal gutter??
                    > > Cheers
                    > > G
                    > >
                    > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Max, Gareth, and Jim, Have to love the English language where one word can mean so many different things. On my early double rotor units, the upper part of the hourglass hearth is in relatively stagnant air (woodgas). This allows for enough cooling of the rotor to prevent damage to it but yet allow the heat to build up in it. Remember, it supports the lower rotor and grate and gets bounced around on the highway. I don't want it glowing and bending or stretching or cracking. On my latest trailer I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank and the lower rotor and grate are also supported by this tank. So, it is the upper rotor, the thin wall (1/8") of the tank and then the lower rotor all bolted together. I have packed the whole area around the upper rotor with ashes from the wood stove. When I saw it white hot in there the other day, I freaked out a bit. It seems to be just fine as there is probably an inch of ash and crap insulating things right now. The truck ran great on Sunday once I got the heck away from the parade (walking speed). Got up to 300F after the cyclone so I know it's done being constipated. I ran poplar in it for the parade. Regards, Mike LaRosa
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hello, Gareth!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Guessing you have hardly any time
                    > > > > to rebuild things before your
                    > > > > important occasions, but after that,
                    > > > > when no schedule is like a Damocles
                    > > > > sword hanging over your head...
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I assumed a ~350 mm diameter hearth-tube
                    > > > > for you 3,5 litre Range Rover motor.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > This is the tube in which the nozzles
                    > > > > would enter from an air-distributing
                    > > > > mantle.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On the flat bottom of this 350 mm
                    > > > > cylindrical hearth tube stands the
                    > > > > reduction tube, ~150-200 mm in diameter.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The reduction tube lower end is welded
                    > > > > (with rounding) to the flat hearth-tube
                    > > > > bottom.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > So, the reduction-tube stands well
                    > > > > insulated in the centre of the lower
                    > > > > part of the hearth-tube.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > An example of this is the GEK, even though
                    > > > > it has a conical reduction tube, resembling
                    > > > > of the Swedish inverted V-hearth...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yes, you have missed the difference in
                    > > > > building geometry; Doug Williams uses a
                    > > > > naked tube hanging down from a
                    > > > > restriction-plane, having the oxidation
                    > > > > part above this plane.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > In the current construction there is no
                    > > > > restriction-plane; the reduction-tube has
                    > > > > an exchangeable restriction-ring, with or
                    > > > > without a collar upward. The eventual
                    > > > > collar is used if needed for trimming the
                    > > > > height of the oxidation zone.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > My question:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > What was the point to change the Dough
                    > > > > Williams restriction plane with good ash
                    > > > > insulation of the oxidation area to a
                    > > > > brake-disk with extra weight and extra
                    > > > > heath losses?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > All you "had" to do with the Doug
                    > > > > Williams construction was to keep the
                    > > > > reduction tube in place and lower the
                    > > > > restriction-plane down to the lower
                    > > > > end of the restriction-tube...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Widening the restriction tube a bit
                    > > > > and putting a restriction-ring on the
                    > > > > upper end...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Well, Good luck with the important
                    > > > > occasions and then take a break...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Max
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@>
                    > > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi max. I was refering to the holes
                    > > > > > in the top plate of the restriction,
                    > > > > > the moving piece, and building the sides
                    > > > > > up a little, like towers, so as to stop
                    > > > > > tar (between burns) running out of the
                    > > > > > bottom of the restriction. I ve done this
                    > > > > > now and am about to start work on the
                    > > > > > air nozzles.
                    > > > > > I ve just read your post and am unsure
                    > > > > > of what you mean by insulating the hearth
                    > > > > > tube from the reduction tube, as in the
                    > > > > > 'Doug Williams uninsulated style'
                    > > > > > I ve tried looking through the photo
                    > > > > > albums for confirmation but cannot find
                    > > > > > the answer to this.
                    > > > > > How is the hearth fully insulated from
                    > > > > > the reduction tube?
                    > > > > > I have refractory insulation to wrap
                    > > > > > around the hearth zone and was advised
                    > > > > > not to wrap this as it would not need
                    > > > > > insulating as getting rid of heat is
                    > > > > > more important than keeping it in...
                    > > > > > I ve been looking at Mikes gasifier
                    > > > > > and from what i can see, the hearth
                    > > > > > zone(brake rotor) is bolted to the
                    > > > > > bottom of the hopper, with central
                    > > > > > restriction,and a further brake rotor
                    > > > > > bolted upside down to the bottom of
                    > > > > > the hearth, with the grate welded to
                    > > > > > the bottom lip.(reduction zone)
                    > > > > > Bruces gasifier looks much like this,
                    > > > > > although it is fabricated out of steel,
                    > > > > > with a tube for the reduction tube
                    > > > > > welded downwards from the central
                    > > > > > restriction, and the grate welded to
                    > > > > > the bottom of this tube.
                    > > > > > How are these insulated, one from
                    > > > > > the other? I must be missing something....
                    > > > > > Thanks Max
                    > > > > > G
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > > > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Hi, Gareth!
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Are you talking about the silo, or what
                    > > > > > > holes are at stake?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Where and what?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I cannot follow this, or be of any help
                    > > > > > > as places are not clearly defined and a
                    > > > > > > "starting point" not given.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Photos 28.7.2011 still revile, that
                    > > > > > > you are "in" the Doug Williams uninsulated
                    > > > > > > style, instead of adopting complete
                    > > > > > > insulation between the hearth-tube and the
                    > > > > > > reduction tube...
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Perhaps it is hard to change style when
                    > > > > > > trying to get something done in no-time...
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Time will tell...
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Max
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > > > > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Hi bruce, theres good sense in that. I am
                    > > > > > > > going to give it a whirl after making a
                    > > > > > > > few small changes, chiefly, raising a lip
                    > > > > > > > around each hole by about 10mm to hopefully
                    > > > > > > > hold back any shut down tar, and a wall
                    > > > > > > > around the outside with a drip lip over this
                    > > > > > > > from the ledge above, into the recess
                    > > > > > > > between the holes.
                    > > > > > > > I'm also going to make a much more direct
                    > > > > > > > copy of mikes design with maybe a half
                    > > > > > > > way hole between that, that you both run.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Snip
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Max
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Mike LaRosa
                    Gareth, I think Werner will help any way he can but I m sure he s busy teaching Philip how to drive right now and the such so I don t expect to hear much from
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 3, 2011
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                      Gareth, I think Werner will help any way he can but I'm sure he's busy teaching Philip how to drive right now and the such so I don't expect to hear much from him for a while. Just part of life .. Mike L


                      --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks again Mike.
                      > Maybe i just need this so bad that I m seeing past the obvious! Ok. no more fusking about, i m gonna be all over it like a bad jacket tomorrow, and i m sticking to the plan!
                      > I ve also emailed Stig to see if theres an old school gasifier kicking about. If i manage to come up trumps, i ll post all info and dimensions here for intrest.
                      > Cheers
                      > G
                      >
                      > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Gareth, I have a tank right on the side of the hopper hooked to the gutter that can hold around a liter / quart of that "crap". The condensate tank is after the cooler and before the large hay filter. The water comes out of that near clear. I pave the shoulders of the road with the stuff from the other tank. If I ever find time, I will probably put together a set of plans but I need to know this thing is OK to pass on. I only have around 250 miles on it now. It plugged up once so far. The double rotor is a genuine winner but I have already posted enough for any qualified person to build one. There are designs that will do way more than that but it takes a while to figure it out. You are on that path. I wonder if you are missing the point of the restriction when you overlayed 2 bolt patterns to open up more stuff ? The restriction IMHO is intended to funnel everything through the sun so no nasties get by. Any side path WILL be a problem. Trust me. A real reduction tube is even a better guarantee that all will be consumed or converted on it's way down. The tapered (hourglass) shape just makes sure that as the char heads for the grate that it will spread out and expose more surface area for reaction and then be ready to fall (get sucked) through the grate when it gets there.
                      > > The younger guys (and one older one) in Finland tried to explain all this to me 5 or 6 years ago but it is just an acquired taste and you have to learn by doing. You can watch all the movies you want. I know you have already been down the road and now it's just a matter of getting it cleaned up or actually, not making the mess in the first place.
                      > > I wish they had never put out the FEMA plans but then on the other hand, lots of folks learned from them ...
                      > > Whatchagonna do ? Call Ghostbusters ?
                      > > You'll get it soon !! .. Mike
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi mike!
                      > > > Whats with the water tank?? sounds like its pretty sweaty around the top rotor....1000 ish deg c only a few centimeteres away....
                      > > > Any chance for a scheamatic drawing for your latest, or a slice through drawing??
                      > > > Whats the water for? or is this the condensate tank from the internal gutter??
                      > > > Cheers
                      > > > G
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hi Max, Gareth, and Jim, Have to love the English language where one word can mean so many different things. On my early double rotor units, the upper part of the hourglass hearth is in relatively stagnant air (woodgas). This allows for enough cooling of the rotor to prevent damage to it but yet allow the heat to build up in it. Remember, it supports the lower rotor and grate and gets bounced around on the highway. I don't want it glowing and bending or stretching or cracking. On my latest trailer I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank and the lower rotor and grate are also supported by this tank. So, it is the upper rotor, the thin wall (1/8") of the tank and then the lower rotor all bolted together. I have packed the whole area around the upper rotor with ashes from the wood stove. When I saw it white hot in there the other day, I freaked out a bit. It seems to be just fine as there is probably an inch of ash and crap insulating things right now. The truck ran great on Sunday once I got the heck away from the parade (walking speed). Got up to 300F after the cyclone so I know it's done being constipated. I ran poplar in it for the parade. Regards, Mike LaRosa
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hello, Gareth!
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Guessing you have hardly any time
                      > > > > > to rebuild things before your
                      > > > > > important occasions, but after that,
                      > > > > > when no schedule is like a Damocles
                      > > > > > sword hanging over your head...
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I assumed a ~350 mm diameter hearth-tube
                      > > > > > for you 3,5 litre Range Rover motor.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > This is the tube in which the nozzles
                      > > > > > would enter from an air-distributing
                      > > > > > mantle.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On the flat bottom of this 350 mm
                      > > > > > cylindrical hearth tube stands the
                      > > > > > reduction tube, ~150-200 mm in diameter.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The reduction tube lower end is welded
                      > > > > > (with rounding) to the flat hearth-tube
                      > > > > > bottom.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > So, the reduction-tube stands well
                      > > > > > insulated in the centre of the lower
                      > > > > > part of the hearth-tube.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > An example of this is the GEK, even though
                      > > > > > it has a conical reduction tube, resembling
                      > > > > > of the Swedish inverted V-hearth...
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Yes, you have missed the difference in
                      > > > > > building geometry; Doug Williams uses a
                      > > > > > naked tube hanging down from a
                      > > > > > restriction-plane, having the oxidation
                      > > > > > part above this plane.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > In the current construction there is no
                      > > > > > restriction-plane; the reduction-tube has
                      > > > > > an exchangeable restriction-ring, with or
                      > > > > > without a collar upward. The eventual
                      > > > > > collar is used if needed for trimming the
                      > > > > > height of the oxidation zone.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > My question:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > What was the point to change the Dough
                      > > > > > Williams restriction plane with good ash
                      > > > > > insulation of the oxidation area to a
                      > > > > > brake-disk with extra weight and extra
                      > > > > > heath losses?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > All you "had" to do with the Doug
                      > > > > > Williams construction was to keep the
                      > > > > > reduction tube in place and lower the
                      > > > > > restriction-plane down to the lower
                      > > > > > end of the restriction-tube...
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Widening the restriction tube a bit
                      > > > > > and putting a restriction-ring on the
                      > > > > > upper end...
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Well, Good luck with the important
                      > > > > > occasions and then take a break...
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Max
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@>
                      > > > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Hi max. I was refering to the holes
                      > > > > > > in the top plate of the restriction,
                      > > > > > > the moving piece, and building the sides
                      > > > > > > up a little, like towers, so as to stop
                      > > > > > > tar (between burns) running out of the
                      > > > > > > bottom of the restriction. I ve done this
                      > > > > > > now and am about to start work on the
                      > > > > > > air nozzles.
                      > > > > > > I ve just read your post and am unsure
                      > > > > > > of what you mean by insulating the hearth
                      > > > > > > tube from the reduction tube, as in the
                      > > > > > > 'Doug Williams uninsulated style'
                      > > > > > > I ve tried looking through the photo
                      > > > > > > albums for confirmation but cannot find
                      > > > > > > the answer to this.
                      > > > > > > How is the hearth fully insulated from
                      > > > > > > the reduction tube?
                      > > > > > > I have refractory insulation to wrap
                      > > > > > > around the hearth zone and was advised
                      > > > > > > not to wrap this as it would not need
                      > > > > > > insulating as getting rid of heat is
                      > > > > > > more important than keeping it in...
                      > > > > > > I ve been looking at Mikes gasifier
                      > > > > > > and from what i can see, the hearth
                      > > > > > > zone(brake rotor) is bolted to the
                      > > > > > > bottom of the hopper, with central
                      > > > > > > restriction,and a further brake rotor
                      > > > > > > bolted upside down to the bottom of
                      > > > > > > the hearth, with the grate welded to
                      > > > > > > the bottom lip.(reduction zone)
                      > > > > > > Bruces gasifier looks much like this,
                      > > > > > > although it is fabricated out of steel,
                      > > > > > > with a tube for the reduction tube
                      > > > > > > welded downwards from the central
                      > > > > > > restriction, and the grate welded to
                      > > > > > > the bottom of this tube.
                      > > > > > > How are these insulated, one from
                      > > > > > > the other? I must be missing something....
                      > > > > > > Thanks Max
                      > > > > > > G
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > > > > > "maxgasman" <gasman@> wrote:
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Hi, Gareth!
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Are you talking about the silo, or what
                      > > > > > > > holes are at stake?
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Where and what?
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > I cannot follow this, or be of any help
                      > > > > > > > as places are not clearly defined and a
                      > > > > > > > "starting point" not given.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Photos 28.7.2011 still revile, that
                      > > > > > > > you are "in" the Doug Williams uninsulated
                      > > > > > > > style, instead of adopting complete
                      > > > > > > > insulation between the hearth-tube and the
                      > > > > > > > reduction tube...
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Perhaps it is hard to change style when
                      > > > > > > > trying to get something done in no-time...
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Time will tell...
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Max
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > > > > > > "Gareth Woolley" <garethwoolley@> wrote:
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > Hi bruce, theres good sense in that. I am
                      > > > > > > > > going to give it a whirl after making a
                      > > > > > > > > few small changes, chiefly, raising a lip
                      > > > > > > > > around each hole by about 10mm to hopefully
                      > > > > > > > > hold back any shut down tar, and a wall
                      > > > > > > > > around the outside with a drip lip over this
                      > > > > > > > > from the ledge above, into the recess
                      > > > > > > > > between the holes.
                      > > > > > > > > I'm also going to make a much more direct
                      > > > > > > > > copy of mikes design with maybe a half
                      > > > > > > > > way hole between that, that you both run.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Snip
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Max
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • mchannon
                      Hi Gareth and Mike I don t want to put words into Mike L s mouth but when he says ...I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank... I think he might
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 3, 2011
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                        Hi Gareth and Mike

                        I don't want to put words into Mike L's mouth but when he says "...I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank..." I think he might be refering to the water tank from which the gasifier was built. Mike am I correct that this gasifier was built from a water tank?

                        Mike in London Ontario Canada

                        At 09:34 PM 8/3/2011 -0000, you wrote:
                        >Hi mike!
                        >Whats with the water tank?? sounds like its pretty sweaty around the top rotor....1000 ish deg c only a few centimeteres away....
                        >Any chance for a scheamatic drawing for your latest, or a slice through drawing??
                        >Whats the water for? or is this the condensate tank from the internal gutter??
                        >Cheers
                        >G
                        >
                        >--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Hi Max, Gareth, and Jim, Have to love the English language where one word can mean so many different things. On my early double rotor units, the upper part of the hourglass hearth is in relatively stagnant air (woodgas). This allows for enough cooling of the rotor to prevent damage to it but yet allow the heat to build up in it. Remember, it supports the lower rotor and grate and gets bounced around on the highway. I don't want it glowing and bending or stretching or cracking. On my latest trailer I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank and the lower rotor and grate are also supported by this tank. So, it is the upper rotor, the thin wall (1/8") of the tank and then the lower rotor all bolted together. I have packed the whole area around the upper rotor with ashes from the wood stove. When I saw it white hot in there the other day, I freaked out a bit. It seems to be just fine as there is probably an inch of ash and crap insulating things right now. The truck ran great on Sunday once I got the heck away from the parade (walking speed). Got up to 300F after the cyclone so I know it's done being constipated. I ran poplar in it for the parade. Regards, Mike LaRosa
                        >>
                        remainder of post snipped.
                      • Mike LaRosa
                        Mike in London, Several water tanks of similar size but I think I posted enough pictures. The local coroner drops them off from time to time here. He installs
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 3, 2011
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                          Mike in London, Several water tanks of similar size but I think I posted enough pictures. The local coroner drops them off from time to time here. He installs well pumps and pressure tanks and we have a half finished job in the works .. I didn't document the whole process because I didn't have a real working camera and I have seen my previous units kinda hacked up by the guys that think they know it all. Then they never do anything further. Whatever .. When I have something I know works, I'll repeatedly post it and when something is experimental, then you can play at your own risk. My thanks to everyone that helped me get to the current unit .. It was years in the making .. Mike LaRosa


                          --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, mchannon <mchannon@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Gareth and Mike
                          >
                          > I don't want to put words into Mike L's mouth but when he says "...I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank..." I think he might be refering to the water tank from which the gasifier was built. Mike am I correct that this gasifier was built from a water tank?
                          >
                          > Mike in London Ontario Canada
                          >
                          > At 09:34 PM 8/3/2011 -0000, you wrote:
                          > >Hi mike!
                          > >Whats with the water tank?? sounds like its pretty sweaty around the top rotor....1000 ish deg c only a few centimeteres away....
                          > >Any chance for a scheamatic drawing for your latest, or a slice through drawing??
                          > >Whats the water for? or is this the condensate tank from the internal gutter??
                          > >Cheers
                          > >G
                          > >
                          > >--- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >> Hi Max, Gareth, and Jim, Have to love the English language where one word can mean so many different things. On my early double rotor units, the upper part of the hourglass hearth is in relatively stagnant air (woodgas). This allows for enough cooling of the rotor to prevent damage to it but yet allow the heat to build up in it. Remember, it supports the lower rotor and grate and gets bounced around on the highway. I don't want it glowing and bending or stretching or cracking. On my latest trailer I have the upper rotor supported by the water tank and the lower rotor and grate are also supported by this tank. So, it is the upper rotor, the thin wall (1/8") of the tank and then the lower rotor all bolted together. I have packed the whole area around the upper rotor with ashes from the wood stove. When I saw it white hot in there the other day, I freaked out a bit. It seems to be just fine as there is probably an inch of ash and crap insulating things right now. The truck ran great on Sunday once I got the heck away from the parade (walking speed). Got up to 300F after the cyclone so I know it's done being constipated. I ran poplar in it for the parade. Regards, Mike LaRosa
                          > >>
                          > remainder of post snipped.
                          >
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