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Re: [WoodGas] Re: Solid oxide fuel cells SOFC, IT-SOFC, etc...

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  • WJ Seidl
    Okay. I ll admit I m not the brightest bulb in the fixture, but I can t see how running woodgas through an engine would cause the oil to get more dirty than
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 2, 2011
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      Okay. I'll admit I'm not the brightest bulb in the fixture, but I can't
      see how running woodgas through an engine would cause the oil to get
      more dirty than any other fuel.
      Don't the rings on the piston prevent just that type of contamination?
      Assuming that the oil stripper ring is in good shape, there should be none.
      What am I missing? For the record, I've rebuilt a few engines in my
      day, mostly VWs.

      Best,
      the "other" Wayne
      eastern Maine

      On 3/2/2011 9:19 AM, wayne wrote:
      >
      > Hello William
      >
      > I have never had my oil tested so I may not be the one to be asking.
      >
      > But for what it is worth I change oil every 4-5K. the oil is always
      > black like a change from a diesel motor. The spark plugs seem to be
      > cleaner than a gasoline motor.
      >
      > The first thing I do before putting a gasifier on a vehicle is take
      > note of the oil pressure and record the compression. So far none of
      > the trucks I have had has lost any compression or oil pressure. The
      > oldest truck that I have here has been on wood for about six years.
      > The last time I checked the compression it seem to have more than when
      > the gassifer was mounted. The old truck is my test vehicle and has had
      > a lot of abuse.
      >
      > I guess in short I could say it not an issue with me. It has been six
      > years since I have driven anywhere on gasoline ( except for testing
      > and for start ups) and I do a lot of unnecessary driving just because
      > it is fun.
      >
      > BBB
      > Wayne
      >
      > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > "wmshooke" <ws25329@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Let's ask someone with miles and miles of experience, like Wayne
      > Keith...How about woodgas engine oil changes Mr. Wayne?
      > >
      > > I think woodgas has a lot more soot/particulate compared to propane,
      > the level depending on filtering and how much bark and dirt are in
      > your fuel. Advance search posts for 'oil change' - problems with
      > woodgas quality/filtering ruin the engine oil quickly.
      > >
      > > A critical selling point is the amount of fuel required to generate
      > a given amount of electricity. SOFC's appear to be more efficient.
      > > Either way, if you're running any ICE on any fuel to generate
      > electricity, you will have to change oil in the engine. Compare that
      > to solar battery charging. No sun = no charging - and having a no
      > moving parts woodgas powered battery charger would be fantastic. Even
      > a small unit to provide power to recharge an onboard battery running
      > fans or controls/instrumentation... Naturally, if your gas is dirty it
      > will clog up the SOFC or fill it with carbon whiskers where it won't
      > work - the key would be having these tubes cheaply mass produced and
      > easy to replace.
      > >
      > > Something definitely worth investigating ;-)
      > > William
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > nunavut@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I agree with this assumption.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: kerry keel
      > > > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Solid oxide fuel cells SOFC, IT-SOFC, etc...
      > > > Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 12:26:26 -0800 (PST)
      > > >
      > > > Since gas engines run cleaner with propane as a fuel, would it not be
      > > > reasonable to consider that engines run on wood gas would be as
      > > > clean, as engines run on Propane? Wood gas would thus limit the
      > > > affects of oil contanmination such as is found in engines run on
      > > > gasoline.
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Stuart Perkins
      If compression has increased, I would suspect carbon buildup. If the plugs are cleaner, perhaps just an instrument variation? On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:19:58
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 2, 2011
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        If compression has increased, I would suspect carbon buildup. If the
        plugs are cleaner, perhaps just an instrument variation?

        On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:19:58 -0000
        "wayne" <waynekeith01@...> wrote:

        > Hello William
        >
        > I have never had my oil tested so I may not be the one to be asking.
        >
        > But for what it is worth I change oil every 4-5K. the oil is always
        > black like a change from a diesel motor. The spark plugs seem to be
        > cleaner than a gasoline motor.
        >
        > The first thing I do before putting a gasifier on a vehicle is take
        > note of the oil pressure and record the compression. So far none of
        > the trucks I have had has lost any compression or oil pressure. The
        > oldest truck that I have here has been on wood for about six years.
        > The last time I checked the compression it seem to have more than
        > when the gassifer was mounted. The old truck is my test vehicle and
        > has had a lot of abuse.
        >
        > I guess in short I could say it not an issue with me. It has been
        > six years since I have driven anywhere on gasoline ( except for
        > testing and for start ups) and I do a lot of unnecessary driving just
        > because it is fun.
        >
        > BBB
        > Wayne
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "wmshooke" <ws25329@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Let's ask someone with miles and miles of experience, like Wayne
        > > Keith...How about woodgas engine oil changes Mr. Wayne?
        > > I think woodgas has a lot more soot/particulate compared to
        > > propane, the level depending on filtering and how much bark and
        > > dirt are in your fuel. Advance search posts for 'oil change' -
        > > problems with woodgas quality/filtering ruin the engine oil quickly.
        > >
        > > A critical selling point is the amount of fuel required to generate
        > > a given amount of electricity. SOFC's appear to be more efficient.
        > > Either way, if you're running any ICE on any fuel to generate
        > > electricity, you will have to change oil in the engine. Compare
        > > that to solar battery charging. No sun = no charging - and having
        > > a no moving parts woodgas powered battery charger would be
        > > fantastic. Even a small unit to provide power to recharge an
        > > onboard battery running fans or controls/instrumentation...
        > > Naturally, if your gas is dirty it will clog up the SOFC or fill it
        > > with carbon whiskers where it won't work - the key would be having
        > > these tubes cheaply mass produced and easy to replace.
        > >
        > > Something definitely worth investigating ;-)
        > > William
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, nunavut@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I agree with this assumption.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: kerry keel
        > > > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Solid oxide fuel cells SOFC, IT-SOFC,
        > > > etc... Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 12:26:26 -0800 (PST)
        > > >
        > > > Since gas engines run cleaner with propane as a fuel, would it
        > > > not be reasonable to consider that engines run on wood gas would
        > > > be as clean, as engines run on Propane? Wood gas would thus limit
        > > > the affects of oil contanmination such as is found in engines run
        > > > on gasoline.
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
      • Stuart Perkins
        Soot. Just like diesel. On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:10:50 -0500
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 2, 2011
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          Soot. Just like diesel.

          On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:10:50 -0500
          WJ Seidl <wjsmaine@...> wrote:

          > Okay. I'll admit I'm not the brightest bulb in the fixture, but I
          > can't see how running woodgas through an engine would cause the oil
          > to get more dirty than any other fuel.
          > Don't the rings on the piston prevent just that type of
          > contamination? Assuming that the oil stripper ring is in good shape,
          > there should be none. What am I missing? For the record, I've
          > rebuilt a few engines in my day, mostly VWs.
          >
          > Best,
          > the "other" Wayne
          > eastern Maine
          >
          > On 3/2/2011 9:19 AM, wayne wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello William
          > >
          > > I have never had my oil tested so I may not be the one to be asking.
          > >
          > > But for what it is worth I change oil every 4-5K. the oil is always
          > > black like a change from a diesel motor. The spark plugs seem to be
          > > cleaner than a gasoline motor.
          > >
          > > The first thing I do before putting a gasifier on a vehicle is take
          > > note of the oil pressure and record the compression. So far none of
          > > the trucks I have had has lost any compression or oil pressure. The
          > > oldest truck that I have here has been on wood for about six years.
          > > The last time I checked the compression it seem to have more than
          > > when the gassifer was mounted. The old truck is my test vehicle and
          > > has had a lot of abuse.
          > >
          > > I guess in short I could say it not an issue with me. It has been
          > > six years since I have driven anywhere on gasoline ( except for
          > > testing and for start ups) and I do a lot of unnecessary driving
          > > just because it is fun.
          > >
          > > BBB
          > > Wayne
          > >
          > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > > "wmshooke" <ws25329@...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Let's ask someone with miles and miles of experience, like Wayne
          > > Keith...How about woodgas engine oil changes Mr. Wayne?
          > > >
          > > > I think woodgas has a lot more soot/particulate compared to
          > > > propane,
          > > the level depending on filtering and how much bark and dirt are in
          > > your fuel. Advance search posts for 'oil change' - problems with
          > > woodgas quality/filtering ruin the engine oil quickly.
          > > >
          > > > A critical selling point is the amount of fuel required to
          > > > generate
          > > a given amount of electricity. SOFC's appear to be more efficient.
          > > > Either way, if you're running any ICE on any fuel to generate
          > > electricity, you will have to change oil in the engine. Compare
          > > that to solar battery charging. No sun = no charging - and having a
          > > no moving parts woodgas powered battery charger would be fantastic.
          > > Even a small unit to provide power to recharge an onboard battery
          > > running fans or controls/instrumentation... Naturally, if your gas
          > > is dirty it will clog up the SOFC or fill it with carbon whiskers
          > > where it won't work - the key would be having these tubes cheaply
          > > mass produced and easy to replace.
          > > >
          > > > Something definitely worth investigating ;-)
          > > > William
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
          > > > <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > > nunavut@ wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I agree with this assumption.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > From: kerry keel
          > > > > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Solid oxide fuel cells SOFC, IT-SOFC,
          > > > > etc... Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 12:26:26 -0800 (PST)
          > > > >
          > > > > Since gas engines run cleaner with propane as a fuel, would it
          > > > > not be reasonable to consider that engines run on wood gas
          > > > > would be as clean, as engines run on Propane? Wood gas would
          > > > > thus limit the affects of oil contanmination such as is found
          > > > > in engines run on gasoline.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • ron ohler
          H9i, I ve seen shorter oil and engine life in old documentation for wood gas. I m pretty sure one on the books I prused at APL last fall had it shown. I
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 2, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            H9i,
            I've seen shorter oil and engine life in old documentation for wood gas. I'm pretty sure one on the books I prused at APL last fall had it shown. I suspected that it was a result of acids in the wood gas getting into the engine (piston rings have end gaps and are not perfectly sealing)  and the ash that gets past the filter increasing wear on cylinder walls and valve face's and stems.
            It is possible though that the increased quality of newer oils helps off set acid erosion of the bearings and pistons and offers enough increased lubrosicty that additional wear is not as noticable.
            Best,
            Ron O

            --- On Wed, 3/2/11, WJ Seidl <wjsmaine@...> wrote:


            From: WJ Seidl <wjsmaine@...>
            Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Re: Solid oxide fuel cells SOFC, IT-SOFC, etc...
            To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 10:10 AM


             



            Okay. I'll admit I'm not the brightest bulb in the fixture, but I can't
            see how running woodgas through an engine would cause the oil to get
            more dirty than any other fuel.
            Don't the rings on the piston prevent just that type of contamination?
            Assuming that the oil stripper ring is in good shape, there should be none.
            What am I missing? For the record, I've rebuilt a few engines in my
            day, mostly VWs.

            Best,
            the "other" Wayne
            eastern Maine

            On 3/2/2011 9:19 AM, wayne wrote:
            >
            > Hello William
            >
            > I have never had my oil tested so I may not be the one to be asking.
            >
            > But for what it is worth I change oil every 4-5K. the oil is always
            > black like a change from a diesel motor. The spark plugs seem to be
            > cleaner than a gasoline motor.
            >
            > The first thing I do before putting a gasifier on a vehicle is take
            > note of the oil pressure and record the compression. So far none of
            > the trucks I have had has lost any compression or oil pressure. The
            > oldest truck that I have here has been on wood for about six years.
            > The last time I checked the compression it seem to have more than when
            > the gassifer was mounted. The old truck is my test vehicle and has had
            > a lot of abuse.
            >
            > I guess in short I could say it not an issue with me. It has been six
            > years since I have driven anywhere on gasoline ( except for testing
            > and for start ups) and I do a lot of unnecessary driving just because
            > it is fun.
            >
            > BBB
            > Wayne
            >
            > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "wmshooke" <ws25329@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Let's ask someone with miles and miles of experience, like Wayne
            > Keith...How about woodgas engine oil changes Mr. Wayne?
            > >
            > > I think woodgas has a lot more soot/particulate compared to propane,
            > the level depending on filtering and how much bark and dirt are in
            > your fuel. Advance search posts for 'oil change' - problems with
            > woodgas quality/filtering ruin the engine oil quickly.
            > >
            > > A critical selling point is the amount of fuel required to generate
            > a given amount of electricity. SOFC's appear to be more efficient.
            > > Either way, if you're running any ICE on any fuel to generate
            > electricity, you will have to change oil in the engine. Compare that
            > to solar battery charging. No sun = no charging - and having a no
            > moving parts woodgas powered battery charger would be fantastic. Even
            > a small unit to provide power to recharge an onboard battery running
            > fans or controls/instrumentation... Naturally, if your gas is dirty it
            > will clog up the SOFC or fill it with carbon whiskers where it won't
            > work - the key would be having these tubes cheaply mass produced and
            > easy to replace.
            > >
            > > Something definitely worth investigating ;-)
            > > William
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > nunavut@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I agree with this assumption.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: kerry keel
            > > > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: Solid oxide fuel cells SOFC, IT-SOFC, etc...
            > > > Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 12:26:26 -0800 (PST)
            > > >
            > > > Since gas engines run cleaner with propane as a fuel, would it not be
            > > > reasonable to consider that engines run on wood gas would be as
            > > > clean, as engines run on Propane? Wood gas would thus limit the
            > > > affects of oil contanmination such as is found in engines run on
            > > > gasoline.
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >

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