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Re: My dad and i make our 1st woodgas truck

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  • jeremy
    Mike said Jeremy, ... Better get some kind of circle / ring down in that restriction but I m sure you have that figured out already. i have no idea what you
    Message 1 of 182 , Jun 30, 2010
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      Mike said "Jeremy, ... Better get some kind of circle / ring down in that restriction but I'm sure you have that figured out already."

      i have no idea what you are talking about there. the hearth opening?

      well.. we didnt get the truck to run, we couldnt even get a flame to stick. we shut it down to save the wood and study what happen. one thing for sure with the imbert air inlets/jets it ran MUCH hotter! we have still been trien to burn HUGE chunks and get bridging at the top of fire tube and also at hearth opening. i took some pics of what we seen.. my album is the last album ( ~~our 1st) and the last 4 pics are new, my dad VERY carfully removed the wood/charcoal from fire tube while i tried not to help. view at jet level dosent tell me much, what do you see?? but the view at hearth opening was our second glimps of failure. if you can see there is a gap between charcoal and hearth opening. as much as i could get my hand in opening i coulndnt feel charcoal except right below opening, i didnt get a pic but all the charcoal you see on hearth i swept into opening and there was still the same gap and still couldnt feel charcoal other than right below opening. this fire had bridged AGAIN at the top of fire tube. what i think happened was we burnt all the charcoal in the reduction zone and with nothing in the fire tube to replace it we faild.
      *noob assumption* i expected to see grey ash come out clean out, there was almost none. only small charcoal chunks that fit thru grate. relized this was "normal" after seeing a pic of mikes clean out after 400 or 500 miles.

      my dad and i have agreed that there are major flaws with the origanal design, well maybe not flaws if it were to stay a fema BUT as an imbert. as it is now the fire tube is 22 in. long, this is nothing more than a problem! if you look at the pic named stage 2, we plan on getting rid of fire tube and making every thing above hearth, wood/hoper space. the hearth, oxidation and reduction zone will be removeable, adjustable and replaceable.


      --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jeremy, You guys are really getting close. Better get some kind of circle / ring down in that restriction but I'm sure you have that figured out already. Make sure your nozzles fit inside of your stuff. If they protrude much further you will have to find a way to prevent bypassing.
      > On the engine timing, I don't know what size and type of engine you are doing or if it is a 4, 6, or 8 or what kind of timing it has (computer, vacuum, etc) .. On my V6 I rotate the distributor almost a whole peg ahead when I'm on pure woodgas. Any gasoline blend and it has to move back closer to stock. One must always remember to leave it in the gasoline setting after shut-down or you may kick back and knock (crack) your starter off next time you start. Hoped that helped.
      > Mike
      >
      >
      > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
      > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/album/645854921/pic/165883045/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&dir=asc
      > > 15 3/4 in. holes and i almost get it right on the last 1...
      > >
      > > mike, its a 10 in. fire tube making for a 7 1/2 in. nozzle circle.
      > > all the math dad n i could find gave us the numbers, we fudged them a little here n there but better to live and learn than to never learn at all ;)
      > >
      > > what is "everything" that you back fill with limestone? i have seen 100's of your pics but dont recall any with limestone.
      > >
      > > dad and i spent some time today talking about wood size, now that we have masterd the wood gasifire (lmao) we have been thinking of how we could make 2X2 cubes (pellets) from wood chips... more to come from this idea.. i hope
      > >
      > > now how about the engine timing??
      > > please give me a hint ye ol' wise ones :)
      > >
      > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Jeremy, Is the tip diameter 10" or are the nozzles protruding into the 10" fire tube making for a 7.5" nozzle circle ?? I finally hit the sweet spot with my trailer with 6, 7/16" nozzles flush with a 6" piece of well casing over a 4" restriction. Everything is backfilled with limestone sand. There are many combos that will work well. I cut smaller chunks for the trailer though. My wife thinks I have all kinds of wood for my truck but it is hard to explain that I have many bags for the wheel units and many for the other types. Of course much is backwards convertable but the small pieces are too costly to use in the bigger units so I save them for the demonstrations and emergencies .. Mike
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > i bet your grass isnt green when you fill the filter tho.. haha
      > > > >
      > > > > so today we got the jets in place, 5 1/2 in. jets 1 1/4 in. into the 10 in. fire tube, 4 in above hearth opening. i also welded shut some pin holes on the ash clean out welds where the hi-temp rtv faild from really hi-temps :O
      > > > > i've been thinking about wraping insolation around fire tube and jets to help heat air before it enters reduction zone or is "cold" air better? what do you guys do?
      > > > >
      > > > > tomarow we're gonna put it back together and see if we can get that truck to run on producer gas!!! cross your fingers guys :D
      > > > >
      > > > > now, i know (think i know..) the timing needs to be advanced but how much? i figure the truck will tell me, but what should i expect? will it be so advanced it wont run on blood gas (petroleum)? and what else needs to be done to engine, if any thing, before we feed it producer gas?
      > > > >
      > > > > thanx for your input guys and keep them figers crossed!! :D
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Jeremy, I like to use grass hay. I just back wash it every 1000 or 1500 miles or so and fluff it back up. It holds up real well. It is after my cooler and condensate trap. I have used fluffed up household fiberglass but it tends to pack up when it gets wet so is better used where the gas is hot. It will melt if a burning chunk of char gets in it. The gas temps out of an imbert style will probably be much lower than that FEMA thing so you won't be roasting the filter quite as bad. I have heard several stories about the filters on FEMAs catching on fire with all the tar in them. Sorry to see you wasted all that solder on the cyclone. That has to be brazed at a minimum on the upper parts. The tailpiece isn't as hot but I'd still use bronze. I plan to make a new cyclone to put at the hot end of things as soon as I get the new welder. I figure my central 55 gallon drum / cooler will be rotting through soon so I had better move on. I'll get more room in the truck bed as well. Mike L
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > ...i forgot to say that we plan to use inorganic filler for filter next time, once we have it converted to imbrt style that is :)
      > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "humble1a" <humble1a@> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Could be both. Was there any condensation on the inside of the filter? Or perhaps you could heat the filter with the grass in it and see if there is any moisture. Also try heating up some of your fuel in a coffee can with a loose lid onit and see how much moisture it makes. That tells a lot.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Bruce
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > i understand what you're saying bruce but i still think the moisture was coming fron the filter filler we used, 75% tall grass cut 2 days before and 25% wood shavings bought 2 days before. before and while we had a flame i kept feeling the side of the filter, it was getting hotter and hotter (we still dont have a decent way to mesure temps), while we had a flame i could not keep my hand on the side of the filter for more than a split second. and as i said in my last post, the fire tube was only 1/2 full when we stoped (gave up, since all we were blowing was steammy smoke) and all the wood in it was completly chared.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > mike, thought you'd never ask lol
      > > > > > > > > as soon as we can get the truck running on producer gas i'll be getting directions from you ;)
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "humble1a" <humble1a@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > I had the same problem and it is common. Water is first produced in the hopper when the temperature rises enough in the hopper to make the wood sweat. The longer you run the unit, the more moisture you make. This water has to be carried away, condensed, or broken down. To carry it away, you will need to make a monorator. The other way to get rid of the moisture is to heat the wood in a barrel and cook it to dry it out. The monorator makes more sense. It also helps to make sure the wood is dry, less than 15% moisture content, but that isn't reasonable at certain times of the year. To break the water down you have to get the reduction zone over 1100 degrees Celsius. The nozzles will help do this.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > You can also minimize the moisture by using dry intake air. One way to dry the intake air is to preheat it before it gets to the nozzles. Some design use electric elements, others use air drawn from a heat exchanger on an exhaust pipe. Once you get an engine running you can use the exhaust gases to preheat. There are other ways to dry the intake air as well.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Mike L uses re bar for his grates and that seems to work.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > here is a link to the imbert style gasifier we built that ran an Onan generator. Notice the electric fuel pump is disconnected.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYbvovSr0SU
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Bruce
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > so today we tore it apart and inspected every thing, we found tar in all the tubes past the cyclone and our hearth might have lasted a day or 2 more. our goal today was to get a jet mocked up so we know what to buy, after seeing the condition of the hearth we decided to replace it as well. for the hearth we used a 9 1/2 in. roter, i inserted a stainless sleave in the end of the fire tube and welded in 3 stoppers for it to rest on. replaceing it will just be a matter of lifting it out and dropping another roter in its place. i uploaded a few more pics from yesterday and today. here are 2 more vids from yesterday...
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/jeremyq/?action=view¤t=maybeshellblow.mp4
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/jeremyq/?action=view¤t=blowit.mp4
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > ok so, after what you see in the vid i posted yesterday, the flame went out after a few mins. we had run out of wood. we figured this would give us a close idea of what run in time would be, so we filled the fire tube n hopper with wood again, but after 20 mins or so it was just blowing steammy smoke, the wood in the fire tube was all char'd and nothing else had changed but still just steammy smoke..
      > > > > > > > > > > only thing i can come up with is that our filter filler, grass and wood shavings, had gotten hot enuff that the smoke was pulling out the moister in it. (??)
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > well guys it looks like we are gonna have to take the gasifire apart and make an imbert out of it... which was our plan once we got it to work.
      > > > > > > > > > > > have a look at FIRE!
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/jeremyq/?action=view¤t=FIRE.mp4
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > ...i'll start from the begining, a few months ago my dad comes to me with another crazy idea, a truck that runs on wood.. i looked over some papers he had down loaded, we talked about it over a few beers, my wheels started turning. well as of now, we need 1 more gasket made, then a pressure test, to check my welds, then we are ready to put it in the truck, light a fire n drive!!!
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > well maybe a little more than that (lol) but we are shooting for next friday to have it done. :)
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > wish i could post pics..
      > > > > > > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > > > a big hello to all you guys :D
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
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      >
    • Adam
      Totally awesome!!! Did you guys find it produced enough power for regular driving on the highway? I ve had to work 14+ hours a day since last time I was on
      Message 182 of 182 , Aug 4, 2010
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        Totally awesome!!! Did you guys find it produced enough power for regular driving on the highway?

        I've had to work 14+ hours a day since last time I was on here, so haven't gotten any further with my project yet. Though you guys are definitely an inspiration!

        I have to drive roughly 60miles to work each day. I hope wood gas is up to the task.

        BBB

        Adam

        --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy" <hippiedadda@...> wrote:
        >
        > i uploaded a video to youtube, check it out guys :D
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtI8_-X4JGE
        >
        > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Perkins <perkins.stuart@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have no way to test compression right now. Since there is very little
        > > crankcase fumes floating out of the oil fill cap with the PCV valve
        > > removed, I think the rings are in excellent shape. I doubt it has that
        > > many miles on it, but with speedo not working I can't tell. There is a
        > > limiter of some sort under carb, so it is doubtful it was ever over
        > > revved.
        > >
        > > Brakes first, then I get to worry about how to power it. The front
        > > brakes are completely disconnected (unnecessary in a hay hauler, which
        > > is what it did in its last life) and the rear brakes do nothing. There
        > > is a vacuum assisted remote brake cylinder under the bed and an old
        > > style trailer brake unit under the dash, with the stock master cylinder
        > > feeding the remote. This should be fun trying to figure this one out.
        > >
        > >
        > > On Sun, 2010-08-01 at 13:54 +0000, Mike LaRosa wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Stuart, If the compression is above 120 or so (wet) it will probably
        > > > work so get busy. I haven't had a slant 6 in over 28 years. Mike
        > > >
        > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Perkins <perkins.stuart@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I've had old engines test much higher than they should have. Suspect
        > > > > carbon buildup reducing combustion chamber size, unless you've had
        > > > the
        > > > > heads off.
        > > > >
        > > > > My neighbor gave me a truck. It is a 1967 D500 Dodge 1 1/2 ton. 225
        > > > > slant six with a four speed, 20 inch split rim tires. It "runs"
        > > > > sorta...I had to shade-tree rebuilt the solenoid/starter (I like the
        > > > old
        > > > > designs where you could do that) and got it running. I looks to be
        > > > > carrying decent oil pressure, and shows minimal to no blow by...
        > > > >
        > > > > There are absolutely no brakes, but who needs to stop anyway? That
        > > > made
        > > > > it fun towing the 30 miles or so home... :o)
        > > > >
        > > > > It was an army truck originally, and the green paint shows through
        > > > the
        > > > > red in places. I'm thinking with the size of this rig, that I could
        > > > > build a LaRosafier on the front of the bed and still have a "full
        > > > sized"
        > > > > pickup bed of space left. Not sure what I'll do with it...maybe just
        > > > > haul firewood. If I build side rails, it should hold about six rick.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > On Fri, 2010-07-30 at 21:40 +0000, Mike LaRosa wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Jeremy, I pulled the front plug on the driver's side and have 155
        > > > psi
        > > > > > there. The engine in my truck came out of a UPS type delivery
        > > > truck
        > > > > > and it is possible it may have been souped up a bit ?? My friend
        > > > that
        > > > > > put it in the truck had to change all kinds of stuff on it
        > > > including
        > > > > > the intake to make it work. I was expecting 135 to 140 with the
        > > > stock
        > > > > > 9.1 CR and was surprised to see 155. I got 160 one time. This was
        > > > > > after running the engine and the walls were coated with oil. I
        > > > just
        > > > > > cranked with the starter with fuel pump and injectors OFF. 155 psi
        > > > > > translates to a CR of 10.5 ... My studebaker clocks in between 80
        > > > and
        > > > > > 120 on it's 8 cylinders and the only woodgas it will run on is
        > > > very
        > > > > > rich tarry stuff. I'm pretty sure at this point that you will need
        > > > to
        > > > > > see between 120 and 140 as a minimum or you will just beat your
        > > > head
        > > > > > against the wall. If you don't have a compression tester, borrow
        > > > one
        > > > > > and check that engine out (wet of course). I have to go pick up
        > > > our
        > > > > > fish dinners. :o) .. Mike
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Jeremy, You are doing it the right way (by doing) but again, you
        > > > > > will need a truck that runs good (on gasoline) first in order to
        > > > get
        > > > > > it to run half good on woodgas. I'm going to look for my
        > > > compression
        > > > > > gauge and will pull a plug over the weekend on my truck and let
        > > > you
        > > > > > know where it is at. I will expect around 140 PSI but I have never
        > > > > > checked it. I haven't used the compression gauge in a few years so
        > > > > > hope I can find it. Bear in mind that I'm usually a mile down the
        > > > road
        > > > > > before things are running good. If I ran my start blower for a
        > > > longer
        > > > > > time and beat (or poked) on the hopper I could start and just take
        > > > off
        > > > > > on the woodgas but it still takes some pulling to get it stoked up
        > > > and
        > > > > > running steady state. I don't bother to light it off for anything
        > > > > > under a 6 or 7 mile drive. Once it is stoked up I can shut down
        > > > for up
        > > > > > to 15 minutes or so and can restart on woodgas and take right off
        > > > > > again without the liquid. There will be a little lag but I'm
        > > > patient
        > > > > > so it's not a problem. Also remember that a low rpm long stroke
        > > > high
        > > > > > torque motor is much better with woodgas than a short stroke high
        > > > rpm
        > > > > > motor which I would suspect that mitsi is. I'll post here and
        > > > probably
        > > > > > give you a call on the twisted pair when I check the compression.
        > > > Mike
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > i do do alot of "dreaming" and thinking, i also do alot more
        > > > than
        > > > > > just talk. since dad n i started this project i have spent about 8
        > > > > > hours every day on it, would love to be at it longer each day but
        > > > we
        > > > > > both have a life that needs looking after as well. everyday is a
        > > > > > learning expierance for us both and with each day i have 100 more
        > > > > > questions, just be lucky i dont ask them ALL.. hahahaha
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > i know the truck is junk, i also know that we havnt been able
        > > > to
        > > > > > have a sucessful run 2 days in a row. we seem to get it right
        > > > every
        > > > > > other day, at the end of each day we sit and scratch our heads and
        > > > ask
        > > > > > each other "what did we change to make it work or not work?". i
        > > > ~think
        > > > > > we are getting closer each day to a working gasifire, for 1 we
        > > > have it
        > > > > > in the truck and not just looking for a pretty blue/clear flame...
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > ... i've got 4-5 months and maybe 1/2 a mile under my "woodgas
        > > > > > belt" i dont plan on giving up or going away.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > SWE1/2M :D
        > > > > > > > jeremy
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Hi Tom, Glad to hear that someone has actually grooved the
        > > > > > heads. We discussed this years ago. Do you remember any of the
        > > > details
        > > > > > on improvements such as mpg changes on the liquid ? In the late
        > > > 30's
        > > > > > and 40's they actually made special pistons for engines being
        > > > > > converted to woodgas. It would probably be easier than shaving
        > > > down
        > > > > > the heads and the ordinary person could swap the pistons in those
        > > > days
        > > > > > in just a few hours. Also somewhat low temp casting as well and a
        > > > > > homegrown industry. The old composite metal head gaskets (steel
        > > > with
        > > > > > copper(?) around the jugs) were easy to re-use. It would be nice
        > > > if
        > > > > > someone had some info on that but this would be mostly europe and
        > > > > > scandinavia.
        > > > > > > > > Of course I'll still push for folks to get building
        > > > something
        > > > > > and actually run their conventional engines before being diverted
        > > > into
        > > > > > an AADD thought stream to perfect the engine. We have only had a
        > > > > > handful of actual builders since I arrived on this group. It's one
        > > > > > thing to do it in your head and another to fill the hopper and
        > > > drive
        > > > > > to the next town(s).
        > > > > > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/message/7755
        > > > > > > > > was my first post here, I think ?? Mike
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Tom Visel <five10man@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > There is something you can do to a gasoline-burning engine
        > > > > > that will make it
        > > > > > > > > > very knock resistant. It involves - counterintuitively to
        > > > many
        > > > > > - raising
        > > > > > > > > > compression, so it happens to suit our needs when using
        > > > > > woodgas. A person
        > > > > > > > > > could have the best of both worlds: improved woodgas
        > > > > > performance and
        > > > > > > > > > economy, and improved gasoline performance and economy.
        > > > I've
        > > > > > done it to
        > > > > > > > > > three gasoline engines, one of which had a turbo, and not
        > > > ever
        > > > > > been
        > > > > > > > > > disappointed.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > google "somender singh grooves" to find the details. It
        > > > > > involves (usually)
        > > > > > > > > > increasing compression and decreasing quench distance, as
        > > > well
        > > > > > as cutting
        > > > > > > > > > grooves in the quench area of the head. The first two are
        > > > > > usually low-cost
        > > > > > > > > > machine shop work, and the third is easily done with a die
        > > > > > grinder and
        > > > > > > > > > files.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > One potential hiccup - or maybe the salvation of woodgas?
        > > > is
        > > > > > this: The
        > > > > > > > > > modification tends to shorten the combustion event and
        > > > speed
        > > > > > up flame travel
        > > > > > > > > > BUT as I understand it this is mainly due to better
        > > > mixture
        > > > > > turbulence in
        > > > > > > > > > the combustion chamber which more thoroughly atomizes the
        > > > > > liquid fuel.
        > > > > > > > > > Therefore, if I understand correctly, it gives great
        > > > > > performance gains (big
        > > > > > > > > > torque increase) when running on gasoline but may only
        > > > give
        > > > > > moderate gains
        > > > > > > > > > on woodgas due to the higher compression but not having
        > > > any
        > > > > > liquid fuel
        > > > > > > > > > droplets to "improve." The difference in flame front speed
        > > > > > could be even
        > > > > > > > > > greater, as the mods speed up the gasoline-mode burn but
        > > > not
        > > > > > (IIUC) the
        > > > > > > > > > woodgas-mode burn.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > So timing differences would still be an issue, but the
        > > > > > benefits of raised
        > > > > > > > > > compression could be realized.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I did this on a carbureted turbo car and was able to
        > > > return it
        > > > > > to stock
        > > > > > > > > > timing (from slightly retarded plus boost retard) and it
        > > > would
        > > > > > also run on
        > > > > > > > > > cheap gas (87 octane) afterwards. It cost me nothing - I
        > > > had
        > > > > > to replace a
        > > > > > > > > > head gasket anyway, and did the mods when the head was
        > > > off.
        > > > > > The other
        > > > > > > > > > engines I did for customers, and they were pleased. More
        > > > > > torque, almost
        > > > > > > > > > impossible to "lug" the engine afterwards it was so
        > > > tractable,
        > > > > > and better
        > > > > > > > > > economy on otherwise-unchanged systems were the benefits.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > TomV
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Mike LaRosa <ook187@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Jeremy, I got a degree in chemical engineering in 1976
        > > > at
        > > > > > SUNY at Buffalo,
        > > > > > > > > > > NY and toured several chemical plants and refineries as
        > > > part
        > > > > > of that
        > > > > > > > > > > training. At that time the octane rating of a batch of
        > > > fuel
        > > > > > out of the plant
        > > > > > > > > > > (distillation columns, crackers, etc)was determined by
        > > > > > putting a sample of
        > > > > > > > > > > it in a small (spark plug) motor that looked like a
        > > > model
        > > > > > airplane motor and
        > > > > > > > > > > then they would start the motor and advance the timing
        > > > on it
        > > > > > till it would
        > > > > > > > > > > start to ping and they would read it off the manual
        > > > dial.
        > > > > > I'm not sure how
        > > > > > > > > > > they would do it now but my guess is things haven't
        > > > changed.
        > > > > > Unofficially I
        > > > > > > > > > > have been told that woodgas has an octane rating of 150
        > > > or
        > > > > > so but this is
        > > > > > > > > > > all BS in my book. Octane rating has no relevance as
        > > > there
        > > > > > is nothing
        > > > > > > > > > > approaching an octane unless you have an excess of tar
        > > > or
        > > > > > soot. Remember
        > > > > > > > > > > that the internal combustion engine was originally built
        > > > to
        > > > > > run on producer
        > > > > > > > > > > gas and was converted after Jed shot into that bubbling
        > > > > > crude. I take pride
        > > > > > > > > > > in giving it what it was asking for in the first
        > > > place ..
        > > > > > Good luck shaving
        > > > > > > > > > > heads etc but I suggest you get one regular engine
        > > > running
        > > > > > reliably first in
        > > > > > > > > > > a real road worthy vehicle and I don't think you will
        > > > bother
        > > > > > after that, but
        > > > > > > > > > > if you do, my hat's off to you. The momentum of the
        > > > vehicle
        > > > > > is a major part
        > > > > > > > > > > of the equation. It's like a huge flywheel. You had to
        > > > > > substitute with a
        > > > > > > > > > > kirby on that junk truck. Peace out, Mike
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <WoodGas%
        > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > > > > "jeremy"
        > > > > > > > > > > <hippiedadda@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > 17:1 :O
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > ML said
        > > > > > > > > > > > "If you build a special machine then you will have to
        > > > > > think about when
        > > > > > > > > > > the fuzz pull you over and all that other crap. Right
        > > > now I
        > > > > > can say it's all
        > > > > > > > > > > stock and EPA approved if you catch my drift."
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > dad n i both dont think the fuzz would have a leg to
        > > > stand
        > > > > > on.. would
        > > > > > > > > > > love to take this to the supreme court :D
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > any1 have any idea the octane of woodgas? best number
        > > > i
        > > > > > can come up with
        > > > > > > > > > > is 106??? thats just a guess really tho..
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <WoodGas%
        > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > > > > > > > > > "bigotes_bigotes" <johnbigotes@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > The Indian Institute of Science determined 17:1 to
        > > > be
        > > > > > the ideal
        > > > > > > > > > > compression ratio for woodgas.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Bigotes
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <WoodGas%
        > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, Stuart
        > > > > > > > > > > Perkins <perkins.stuart@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > This was my reply...
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since woodgas has a slow flame front and does not
        > > > > > compression ignite,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > much higher compression is appropriate...like 17:1
        > > > or
        > > > > > more...
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2010-07-27 at 20:12 +0000, Mike LaRosa
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stuart, I apologize as I deleted your reply
        > > > about
        > > > > > flame front and
        > > > > > > > > > > CR
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to Jeremy too as I could not edit it. I think
        > > > you
        > > > > > remember the last
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time we became an adult site. It's a real
        > > > problem
        > > > > > for Laren to get
        > > > > > > > > > > it
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > straightened out. Hopefully the other guys that
        > > > do
        > > > > > this e-mail and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reply without snipping things will edit the word
        > > > c_m
        > > > > > too. Thanks,
        > > > > > > > > > > Mike
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <WoodGas%
        > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, "Mike
        > > > > > > > > > > LaRosa" <ook187@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jeremy, Glad to hear you have been out
        > > > playing
        > > > > > in the dirt
        > > > > > > > > > > with
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your dad. Just be careful what you say (type)
        > > > here
        > > > > > or we may become
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and adult site. It has happened before. I may
        > > > delete
        > > > > > your previous
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message to prevent this but it's all below for
        > > > the
        > > > > > rest with a u
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > removed. Pretty hot today eh ?? Glad John ran
        > > > you
        > > > > > through the mill.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I told you on the telephone, you will have
        > > > to
        > > > > > find a real
        > > > > > > > > > > truck
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to work with. I am not aware of anyone building
        > > > a
        > > > > > special motor
        > > > > > > > > > > yet.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many have talked about it. If you build a
        > > > special
        > > > > > machine then you
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will have to think about when the fuzz pull you
        > > > over
        > > > > > and all that
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other crap. Right now I can say it's all stock
        > > > and
        > > > > > EPA approved if
        > > > > > > > > > > you
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > catch my drift. Throw a switch or two and it's
        > > > on
        > > > > > gasoline and back
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stock with a fish smoker in the bed. Mike
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <WoodGas%
        > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > > > > > > > > > "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are mobile!!
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dad n i drove the truck around our property,
        > > > it
        > > > > > made me feel
        > > > > > > > > > > very
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nervous. we were off road the whole time, with
        > > > evey
        > > > > > bump the
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cooler/condencer tied to the roof made scarry
        > > > > > noises. the tall
        > > > > > > > > > > grass
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and other plants rubbing on the under side of
        > > > the
        > > > > > truck were just
        > > > > > > > > > > as
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scarry noises. i was so nervous/excited, i
        > > > thought
        > > > > > for sure i would
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > either crap or c_m in my pants (neither
        > > > happened). i
        > > > > > couldnt sit
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still, i dont think i have ever been so
        > > > > > nervous/excited in my life,
        > > > > > > > > > > as
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if death or birth was seconds away. i home
        > > > birthed 2
        > > > > > of my 3
        > > > > > > > > > > childern
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this was more intense.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the mitzy's engine can not suck enuff to run
        > > > its
        > > > > > self (it wont
        > > > > > > > > > > run
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on blood gas at all), so we kept the fan (kirby
        > > > with
        > > > > > a rehostat in
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > line) running via an inverter, the mitzy liked
        > > > it. i
        > > > > > have thought
        > > > > > > > > > > alot
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the engine (i have built a few hi
        > > > performace
        > > > > > "race" engines),
        > > > > > > > > > > it
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be easy to set up an engine for woodgas.
        > > > has
        > > > > > any1 built an
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > engine for woodgas? i would love to talk cam and
        > > > > > head mods, as well
        > > > > > > > > > > as
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > comp ratio.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanx for all your help guys! no way this
        > > > could
        > > > > > have come to be
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with out your input!
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BBB
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jeremy :)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <WoodGas%
        > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > > > > > > > > > "jeremy" <hippiedadda@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...i'll start from the begining, a few
        > > > months
        > > > > > ago my dad
        > > > > > > > > > > comes
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to me with another crazy idea, a truck that runs
        > > > on
        > > > > > wood.. i looked
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over some papers he had down loaded, we talked
        > > > about
        > > > > > it over a few
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > beers, my wheels started turning. well as of
        > > > now, we
        > > > > > need 1 more
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gasket made, then a pressure test, to check my
        > > > > > welds, then we are
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready to put it in the truck, light a fire n
        > > > > > drive!!!
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well maybe a little more than that (lol)
        > > > but
        > > > > > we are shooting
        > > > > > > > > > > for
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > next friday to have it done. :)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wish i could post pics..
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a big hello to all you guys :D
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > > >
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