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Re: methane comeback

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  • Mark S.
    ... The short segment I saw on TV about a farm in CA doing the methane thing showed how the stalls were cleaned out daily with a bulldozer and a man-made
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 30, 2005
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      --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, keith ford <kf4tap@y...> wrote:
      > do you put your cattle inside at night? otherwise you would have to follow them around with a shovel. Not fun.

      The short segment I saw on TV about a farm in CA doing the methane thing showed how the stalls were cleaned out daily with a bulldozer and a man-made flood. The effluent was channeled down to the incubation ponds/bags. The resulting low-pressure gas was fed directly to a generator if I recall correctly. Again, if I recall, they said they couldn't show the generator running because the EMF would play havoc with the cameras.

      I imagine using bulldozers is commonplace on large farms now. A lot easier than trying to paper-train the cows.
    • Richard Muszynski
      Greetings. For the tractor conversion go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woodgas/files/woodgas1.pdf this is a homemade wood gas conversion plan put out by
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 1, 2005
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        Greetings. For the tractor conversion go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woodgas/files/woodgas1.pdf this is a homemade wood gas conversion plan put out by FEMA to power farm tractors in time of fuel shortage (about like now I would think) It simply is made out of ordinary items and mounts on the front of the tractor. It was designed by Livermore labs so a lot better then if it would have been designed by FEMA. With the methane. Be a good idea to check how the Chinese do it on their co-op farms. They run digesters to supply their cooking gas and lighting gas for the isolated farms. And they do it with the minimum of complexity. Have been doing it for years. All you are doing with the digesters really is composting at a high rate. Any nitrogen rich manure mixed with any nitrogen poor organic matter will work. Nitrogen is necessary for decomposition of organic matter, but too much of it acts as a preservative and prevents decomposition. Which is why chicken manure just sits
        there. But when mixed with organic matter like spoiled hay or leaves, sawdust or lawn clippings and wet down it begins to decompose rapidly. The Chinese use mainly pig manure in their digesters. could also use human manure of course, but they use that for fertilizer in the fields. As for storing the methane it is not necessary to compress it. What is used mainly is a inverted hollow cylinder that is set with the open end down in a pit that has a liquid seal in it so the opening is under the liquid. the methane in forced into the cylinder by the pressure created by the creation of the methane itself in the sealed digester. the gas is forced into the cylinder, causing the cylinder to be forced up. You can tell how much gas you have by how high the cylinder is sticking up from the ground. It is a self regulating system in that when the amount of gas gets greater in the cylinder then the cylinder can contain it simply leaks out around the bottom edge which when it is too high
        rises to the surface of the liquid seal. So as you use the methane the gas is forced out by the weight of the tank it is supporting. As the fuel is used the tank simply settles back down into its pit. no power needed to operate it. Simple physics in action. Rich.
        William Carr <Jkirk3279@...> wrote:
        On Sep 30, 2005, at 5:23 PM, Anita Messenger wrote:

        > We can get the chicken litter by the dump truck load - about $50 or
        > so. I wonder how much methane that could produce? There is just my
        > husband and I in the house. This is something that we have been
        > wondering about for several months - how to use the livestock manure
        > to make bio-gas for the house.
        >
        > We'd also like to convert our gasoline tractor to wood gas. We have
        > a small farm, and these tractors get used plenty, mainly baline
        > hay.

        If you burned some of the methane in a gasoline engine, powering a
        compressor, you could 'store' some of the methane gas.

        But not much. You apparently need super-cold temps to do a good job
        compressing methane.

        But you can burn it right on site, dual-fueling with gasoline, maybe.


        And make a lots of nice electricity.

        Waste heat from the engine can pre-heat your water for showers.

        And after the chicken poo has stopped making methane, you can sell it
        as compost to city folks.



        There are other ways to go. Technically it's possible to make
        briquettes out of the chicken poo, ashes, clay, whatever.

        After drying, they will burn in a regular woodstove.













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      • Richard Stanley
        Mark , Yup have yet to see a toilet-trained cow ...But the fuss on line for manyof us is about compression so that the fuel can be used in mobile power
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 1, 2005
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          Mark ,
          Yup have yet to see a toilet-trained cow ...But the fuss on line for
          manyof us is about compression so that the fuel can be used in mobile
          power applications (cars trucks etc). Thats the 'sticky wicket'.. as our
          Uk cousins would like to say...


          Richard

          > g
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Energy+healing&w1=Energy+healing&w2=Natural+gas&w3=Save+energy&w4=Science+kits&w5=Science+education&w6=Alternative+energy&c=6&s=119&.sig=EVfZF7Qt0yKmJkb6pBxm5w>
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        • CLHW@INFOAVE.NET
          Not only large farms. We ran a dairy with about 80 milking head on the line at a time. Even small dairy farms attach a scrape blade to the lift arms of their
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 1, 2005
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            Not only large farms. We ran a dairy with about 80 milking head on the line
            at a time.

            Even small dairy farms attach a scrape blade to the lift arms of their
            tractor and scrape at least the holding pen (where the cow wait to be
            milked) into a manure spreader which sits below a ramp or some other way to
            transport it to be spread on fields. If you have something like a dump-bed
            trailer which will hold semi-liquid waste, you could park that where the
            tractor scrapes.

            This manure handling is required by the health department for grade A dairy
            farms, which is all my state will allow to sell raw milk. Usually the
            scraping is followed by hosing or some sort of dump washing. The liquid
            from that will often go down drain pipes to a holding lagoon.

            In less temperate states, cows may be housed indoors all winter, or at
            least when there is snow on the ground, to prevent freezing teats. Manure
            handling systems there will scrape the gutters behind the cow stalls and
            the cattle walkways daily or more often.

            >The short segment I saw on TV about a farm in CA doing the methane thing
            showed how the stalls were cleaned out daily with a bulldozer and a
            man-made flood. The effluent was channeled down to the incubation
            ponds/bags. The resulting low-pressure gas was fed directly to a generator
            if I recall correctly. Again, if I recall, they said they couldn't show the
            generator running because the EMF would play havoc with the cameras.
            >
            >I imagine using bulldozers is commonplace on large farms now. A lot
            >easier than trying to paper-train the cows.
            >
          • mycotyrant
            Another excellent way to turn manure into useable fuel is by vermicomposting with Soldier Fly. They can be dried and the 34% fat content squeezed out in a
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 1, 2005
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              Another excellent way to turn manure into useable fuel is by
              vermicomposting with Soldier Fly. They can be dried and the 34% fat
              content squeezed out in a press. This can then be used straight, or
              made into biodiesel.

              The larvae are also valuable ($500/ton) as a high quality animal
              feed, suitable for chickens, pigs, and fish.

              http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/enl/vol1n2/article/ibs_conf.pdf

              Chicken manure is very high in nitrogen. For maximum yield, you would
              want to add carbon (paper, hay, straw) to achieve a ratio of 30:1
              Carbon:nitrogen

              http://www.organicgardening.com/feature/0,7518,s1-5-21-112,00.html



              --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Anita Messenger" <libertymtn@y...>
              wrote:
              > Is pig and chicken crap that much richer? Does the carbon of the
              > > > bedding make that much difference ( 400% )
              > >
              > > Yes it is, I live on a farm and have done a bit of research -
              it's
              > > mainly due to the dietary differences.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
              >
              > We have chicken houses all around us here - would the chicken
              litter
              > out of the houses work for methane production for our house to use?
              > Could we mix the cow manure with the chicken litter? I cook with
              > propane and our hot water heater uses propane, but I'd at least
              like
              > to make our own gas for cooking with, and use solar for the water
              > heater.
              >
              > Since we are already set up for propane, would it be possible to
              > convert one of our propane tanks to store methane from the manure,
              > and to go through the lines from the tank to the house like the
              > propane already does? Is this doable? Does methane *store* like
              > propane will? One of our tractors and one of our pickups run on
              > propane, too - could we convert them to run on this methane? Is it
              > any worse to handle/etc. than propane? We have one tank that is 500
              > gallons plus several smaller ones.
              >
              > We can get the chicken litter by the dump truck load - about $50 or
              > so. I wonder how much methane that could produce? There is just my
              > husband and I in the house. This is something that we have been
              > wondering about for several months - how to use the livestock
              manure
              > to make bio-gas for the house.
              >
              > We'd also like to convert our gasoline tractor to wood gas. We have
              > a small farm, and these tractors get used plenty, mainly baline
              > hay.
              >
              > Anita in Arkansas
            • Joe Greene
              You can also make chitosan / chitin (a product that has many valuable uses) using an enzyme on zillions of roaches as raw material (processing their outer
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 1, 2005
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                You can also make chitosan / chitin (a product that has many valuable
                uses) using an enzyme on zillions of roaches as raw material (processing
                their outer hardened shell). The roaches could eat the debris and fat
                from the dead flies and breed like crazy. The debris from the roach
                processing can be used to breed more flies . . .

                Refined pharmacy grade chitin sells for a pretty good price per pound.

                The outer shells from shrimp processing work great too.



                mycotyrant wrote:

                > Another excellent way to turn manure into useable fuel is by
                > vermicomposting with Soldier Fly. They can be dried and the 34% fat
                > content squeezed out in a press. This can then be used straight, or
                > made into biodiesel.
                >
                > The larvae are also valuable ($500/ton) as a high quality animal
                > feed, suitable for chickens, pigs, and fish.
                >
                > http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/enl/vol1n2/article/ibs_conf.pdf
                >
                > Chicken manure is very high in nitrogen. For maximum yield, you would
                > want to add carbon (paper, hay, straw) to achieve a ratio of 30:1
                > Carbon:nitrogen
                >
                > http://www.organicgardening.com/feature/0,7518,s1-5-21-112,00.html
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Anita Messenger" <libertymtn@y...>
                > wrote:
                > > Is pig and chicken crap that much richer? Does the carbon of the
                > > > > bedding make that much difference ( 400% )
                > > >
                > > > Yes it is, I live on a farm and have done a bit of research -
                > it's
                > > > mainly due to the dietary differences.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                > >
                > > We have chicken houses all around us here - would the chicken
                > litter
                > > out of the houses work for methane production for our house to use?
                > > Could we mix the cow manure with the chicken litter? I cook with
                > > propane and our hot water heater uses propane, but I'd at least
                > like
                > > to make our own gas for cooking with, and use solar for the water
                > > heater.
                > >
                > > Since we are already set up for propane, would it be possible to
                > > convert one of our propane tanks to store methane from the manure,
                > > and to go through the lines from the tank to the house like the
                > > propane already does? Is this doable? Does methane *store* like
                > > propane will? One of our tractors and one of our pickups run on
                > > propane, too - could we convert them to run on this methane? Is it
                > > any worse to handle/etc. than propane? We have one tank that is 500
                > > gallons plus several smaller ones.
                > >
                > > We can get the chicken litter by the dump truck load - about $50 or
                > > so. I wonder how much methane that could produce? There is just my
                > > husband and I in the house. This is something that we have been
                > > wondering about for several months - how to use the livestock
                > manure
                > > to make bio-gas for the house.
                > >
                > > We'd also like to convert our gasoline tractor to wood gas. We have
                > > a small farm, and these tractors get used plenty, mainly baline
                > > hay.
                > >
                > > Anita in Arkansas
                >
                >
                >
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              • mycotyrant
                How well do you think soldier fly larvae would burn in a specially designed gasifier, or as an additave or admixture in a formulated fuel for gasification? I
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 1, 2005
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                  How well do you think soldier fly larvae would burn in a specially
                  designed gasifier, or as an additave or admixture in a formulated
                  fuel for gasification?

                  I wonder if the best solution would be to just gassify the poop.



                  --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Joe Greene <joegreene@u...> wrote:
                  > You can also make chitosan / chitin (a product that has many
                  valuable
                  > uses) using an enzyme on zillions of roaches as raw material
                  (processing
                  > their outer hardened shell). The roaches could eat the debris and
                  fat
                  > from the dead flies and breed like crazy. The debris from the
                  roach
                  > processing can be used to breed more flies . . .
                  >
                  > Refined pharmacy grade chitin sells for a pretty good price per
                  pound.
                  >
                  > The outer shells from shrimp processing work great too.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > mycotyrant wrote:
                  >
                  > > Another excellent way to turn manure into useable fuel is by
                  > > vermicomposting with Soldier Fly. They can be dried and the 34%
                  fat
                  > > content squeezed out in a press. This can then be used straight,
                  or
                  > > made into biodiesel.
                  > >
                  > > The larvae are also valuable ($500/ton) as a high quality animal
                  > > feed, suitable for chickens, pigs, and fish.
                  > >
                  > > http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/enl/vol1n2/article/ibs_conf.pdf
                  > >
                  > > Chicken manure is very high in nitrogen. For maximum yield, you
                  would
                  > > want to add carbon (paper, hay, straw) to achieve a ratio of 30:1
                  > > Carbon:nitrogen
                  > >
                  > > http://www.organicgardening.com/feature/0,7518,s1-5-21-112,00.html
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Anita Messenger"
                  <libertymtn@y...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > Is pig and chicken crap that much richer? Does the carbon of
                  the
                  > > > > > bedding make that much difference ( 400% )
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yes it is, I live on a farm and have done a bit of research -
                  > > it's
                  > > > > mainly due to the dietary differences.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                  > > >
                  > > > We have chicken houses all around us here - would the chicken
                  > > litter
                  > > > out of the houses work for methane production for our house to
                  use?
                  > > > Could we mix the cow manure with the chicken litter? I cook with
                  > > > propane and our hot water heater uses propane, but I'd at least
                  > > like
                  > > > to make our own gas for cooking with, and use solar for the
                  water
                  > > > heater.
                  > > >
                  > > > Since we are already set up for propane, would it be possible to
                  > > > convert one of our propane tanks to store methane from the
                  manure,
                  > > > and to go through the lines from the tank to the house like the
                  > > > propane already does? Is this doable? Does methane *store* like
                  > > > propane will? One of our tractors and one of our pickups run on
                  > > > propane, too - could we convert them to run on this methane? Is
                  it
                  > > > any worse to handle/etc. than propane? We have one tank that is
                  500
                  > > > gallons plus several smaller ones.
                  > > >
                  > > > We can get the chicken litter by the dump truck load - about
                  $50 or
                  > > > so. I wonder how much methane that could produce? There is just
                  my
                  > > > husband and I in the house. This is something that we have been
                  > > > wondering about for several months - how to use the livestock
                  > > manure
                  > > > to make bio-gas for the house.
                  > > >
                  > > > We'd also like to convert our gasoline tractor to wood gas. We
                  have
                  > > > a small farm, and these tractors get used plenty, mainly baline
                  > > > hay.
                  > > >
                  > > > Anita in Arkansas
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
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