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Re: GEK question,,stainless lines??

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  • Dutch John
    ... like jim uses in the gek units for an external heat exchange/cooler,,does anybody know of a company that makes them ??,, A preheat mantle or cowling, like
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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      --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, david nichols <dnich111@...> wrote:
      >
      > im looking for some kind of ribbed flexable stainless steel lines
      like jim uses in the gek units for an external heat
      exchange/cooler,,does anybody know of a company that makes them ??,,


      A preheat mantle or cowling, like the Imbert SMP in FAO72, is not that
      efficient, but way easier and cheaper to build. And for the very long
      run less prone to soot accumulation, because there are not "dead
      spots". A smooth surface can take some soot, but when the crust becomes
      thicker, it will eventually fall off.

      Regards,
      DJ
    • Ken Boak
      Jim, David, List You must have some good hardware stores in the US! In the UK, those lines would be considered a specialist item. UK legislation discourages
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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        Jim, David, List

        You must have some good hardware stores in the US!

        In the UK, those lines would be considered a specialist item. UK legislation
        discourages homeowners from doing their own gas plumbing for obvious
        reasons.

        So far - I have only found one supplier, and then only in metre lengths and
        then costing about $25!

        For reference the UK supplier is

        http://www.bes.co.uk/ Page 11 - Part Number 16201 scroll down to
        bottom of page




        Ken
      • andrew heggie
        ... http://www.bes.co.uk/products/017.asp may be a better bet and fit your own ends. You ll have to invite me over to see this beast Ken! AJH
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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          On Sunday 01 February 2009 09:58:23 Ken Boak wrote:
          > Jim, David, List
          >
          > You must have some good hardware stores in the US!
          >
          > In the UK, those lines would be considered a specialist item. UK
          > legislation discourages homeowners from doing their own gas plumbing for
          > obvious reasons.
          >
          > So far - I have only found one supplier, and then only in metre lengths and
          > then costing about $25!
          >
          > For reference the UK supplier is
          >
          > http://www.bes.co.uk/ Page 11 - Part Number 16201 scroll down to
          > bottom of page

          http://www.bes.co.uk/products/017.asp

          may be a better bet and fit your own ends.

          You'll have to invite me over to see this beast Ken!

          AJH
        • Ken Boak
          Andrew, List, The TracPipe is coated in a yellow plastic sleeve, which can be pulled off rather like skinning a snake. I have found short lengths of this pipe
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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            Andrew, List,

            The TracPipe is coated in a yellow plastic sleeve, which can be pulled off
            rather like skinning a snake. I have found short lengths of this pipe at a
            local scrap yard an used iit in the past for air heating lines.

            Jim's source in the US is considerably cheaper, and they are available in a
            greater range of lengths and diameters.

            Andrew, you're welcome to come and see it, and have a play. Bring your own
            choice of fuel wood. Late afternoons are best, solely because the colour
            and nature of the woodgas flame is so much easier to see in fading light.


            Ken


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "andrew heggie" <list@...>
            To: <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:08 PM
            Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Re: GEK question,,stainless lines??


            > On Sunday 01 February 2009 09:58:23 Ken Boak wrote:
            >> Jim, David, List
            >>
            >> You must have some good hardware stores in the US!
            >>
            >> In the UK, those lines would be considered a specialist item. UK
            >> legislation discourages homeowners from doing their own gas plumbing for
            >> obvious reasons.
            >>
            >> So far - I have only found one supplier, and then only in metre lengths
            >> and
            >> then costing about $25!
            >>
            >> For reference the UK supplier is
            >>
            >> http://www.bes.co.uk/ Page 11 - Part Number 16201 scroll down to
            >> bottom of page
            >
            > http://www.bes.co.uk/products/017.asp
            >
            > may be a better bet and fit your own ends.
            >
            > You'll have to invite me over to see this beast Ken!
            >
            > AJH
          • r-m-ohler@triton.net
            Hi, You can find them used in water and gas supply lines. Common to see 3/4 and 1 on natural gas meters where it enters the building. Smaller sizes used in
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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              Hi,
              You can find them used in water and gas supply lines. Common to see 3/4"
              and 1" on natural gas meters where it enters the building. Smaller sizes
              used in the flexible service lines to appliances.
              Ron


              > im looking for some kind of ribbed flexable stainless steel lines like jim
              > uses in the gek units for an external heat exchange/cooler,,does anybody
              > know of a company that makes them ??
            • Steve
              These stainless gas lines are low pressure if I am not mistaken. Does anyone know what pressure they can handle up to? How tough are these lines anyway? They
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                These stainless gas lines are low pressure if I am not mistaken. Does
                anyone know what pressure they can handle up to? How tough are these
                lines anyway? They look rather thin and do not weigh much. It seems
                like for a gas line it should be better armoured so you cannot easily
                drill a hole through it (in a wall).

                On 2/1/09, r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...> wrote:
                > Hi,
                > You can find them used in water and gas supply lines. Common to see 3/4"
                > and 1" on natural gas meters where it enters the building. Smaller sizes
                > used in the flexible service lines to appliances.
                > Ron
                >
                >
                >> im looking for some kind of ribbed flexable stainless steel lines like jim
                >> uses in the gek units for an external heat exchange/cooler,,does anybody
                >> know of a company that makes them ??
                >
                >
              • CaptonZap@aol.com
                In a message dated 2/1/2009 8:15:17 AM Mountain Standard Time, jantoven@gmail.com writes: These stainless gas lines are low pressure if I am not mistaken. Does
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                  In a message dated 2/1/2009 8:15:17 AM Mountain Standard Time,
                  jantoven@... writes:

                  These stainless gas lines are low pressure if I am not mistaken. Does
                  anyone know what pressure they can handle up to? How tough are these
                  lines anyway? They look rather thin and do not weigh much. It seems
                  like for a gas line it should be better armoured so you cannot easily
                  drill a hole through it (in a wall).






                  --------------------------------Reply-----------------------------------

                  The design of the connectors is deceptive. They are far more likely to fail
                  because of metal fatigue, rather than over pressure. However, if you are
                  concerned about pressure, you can get the same design, rated for whatever you
                  specify, in whatever material will suit your purpose. Got bucks?
                  Thomas Register "flexible metallic connectors". CZ
                  **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
                  (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://www.dell.com/co
                  ntent/products/features.aspx/laptops_great_deals?c=us%26cs=19%26l=en%26s=d
                  hs%26~ck=anavml)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ronald Hongsermeier
                  They are specific to a relatively low pressure situation-- that of connecting an end user device to the gas line provided by the utility company. They probably
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                    They are specific to a relatively low pressure situation-- that of connecting an end user device to the gas line provided by the utility company.

                    They probably shouldn't be used with a clothes dryer or stove if your intent is to play catch with your pet gorilla using the device in question as a ball ersatz. But you don't have a pet gorilla do you?

                    They are sufficient for the use in the GEK design by all means. In the case in question you have to be careful not to drill through them, just like you want to be careful not to drill more holes than you need anyplace in your gasifier... Otherwise you end up using more welding wire and trying your patience... ;-P

                    regards,
                    Ron

                    > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                    > Von: "Steve" <jantoven@...>
                    > Gesendet: 01.02.09 16:15:18
                    > An: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
                    > Betreff: Re: [WoodGas] GEK question,,stainless lines??


                    > These stainless gas lines are low pressure if I am not mistaken. Does
                    > anyone know what pressure they can handle up to? How tough are these
                    > lines anyway? They look rather thin and do not weigh much. It seems
                    > like for a gas line it should be better armoured so you cannot easily
                    > drill a hole through it (in a wall).
                    >
                    > On 2/1/09, r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...> wrote:
                    > > Hi,
                    > > You can find them used in water and gas supply lines. Common to see
                    > 3/4"
                    > > and 1" on natural gas meters where it enters the building. Smaller
                    > sizes
                    > > used in the flexible service lines to appliances.
                    > > Ron
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >> im looking for some kind of ribbed flexable stainless steel lines
                    > like jim
                    > >> uses in the gek units for an external heat exchange/cooler,,does
                    > anybody
                    > >> know of a company that makes them ??
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • jantoven@gmail.com
                    I should have mentioned that my question about the pressure rating of the gas line was in general, so that I ll know what they can handle in other applications
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                      I should have mentioned that my question about the pressure rating of the gas line was in general, so that I'll know what they can handle in other applications for which it was designed. I am sure for the way it is used in the GEK, it is fine.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: CaptonZap@...
                      Date: Sunday, Feb 1, 2009 11:02 am
                      Subject: Re: [WoodGas] GEK question,,stainless lines??
                      To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.comReply-To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com




                      In a message dated 2/1/2009 8:15:17 AM Mountain Standard Time,
                      jantoven@... writes:

                      These stainless gas lines are low pressure if I am not mistaken. Does
                      anyone know what pressure they can handle up to? How tough are these
                      lines anyway? They look rather thin and do not weigh much. It seems
                      like for a gas line it should be better armoured so you cannot easily
                      drill a hole through it (in a wall).

                      --------------------------------Reply-----------------------------------

                      The design of the connectors is deceptive. They are far more likely to fail
                      because of metal fatigue, rather than over pressure. However, if you are
                      concerned about pressure, you can get the same design, rated for whatever you
                      specify, in whatever material will suit your purpose. Got bucks?
                      Thomas Register 'flexible metallic connectors'. CZ
                      **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
                      (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://www.dell.com/co
                      ntent/products/features.aspx/laptops_great_deals?c=us%26cs=19%26l=en%26s=d
                      hs%26~ck=anavml)

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • jantoven@gmail.com
                      Just looked at the label on a 5/8 line. One item says: Do not use on natural gas or LP gas piping systems operating at pressures exceeding 1/2 psig. I m sure
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                        Just looked at the label on a 5/8 line. One item says:

                        Do not use on natural gas or LP gas piping systems operating at pressures exceeding 1/2 psig.

                        I'm sure there's a large safety margin built into that? But 1/2 psig??? That's nothing!
                      • Terry Houston
                        Gas pressure coming into a residence is generally 3 - 4 psi. TJ ... From: jantoven@gmail.com Subject: Re: [WoodGas] GEK
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                          Gas pressure coming into a residence is generally 3 - 4 psi.
                          TJ

                          --- On Sun, 2/1/09, jantoven@... <jantoven@...> wrote:
                          From: jantoven@... <jantoven@...>
                          Subject: Re: [WoodGas] GEK question,,stainless lines??
                          To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 11:57 AM











                          Just looked at the label on a 5/8 line. One item says:



                          Do not use on natural gas or LP gas piping systems operating at pressures exceeding 1/2 psig.



                          I'm sure there's a large safety margin built into that? But 1/2 psig??? That's nothing!


























                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Al Shinn
                          I suspect that is for the line to the regulator outside of the house - My heater specifies 1/2 psi input. Looking forward, Al Shinn
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                            I suspect that is for the line to the regulator outside of the house -
                            My heater specifies 1/2 psi input.
                            Looking forward,
                            Al Shinn



                            Terry Houston wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Gas pressure coming into a residence is generally 3 - 4 psi.
                            > TJ
                            >
                            > --- On Sun, 2/1/09, jantoven@... <mailto:jantoven%40gmail.com>
                            > <jantoven@... <mailto:jantoven%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                            > From: jantoven@... <mailto:jantoven%40gmail.com>
                            > <jantoven@... <mailto:jantoven%40gmail.com>>
                            > Subject: Re: [WoodGas] GEK question,,stainless lines??
                            > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WoodGas%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 11:57 AM
                            >
                            > Just looked at the label on a 5/8 line. One item says:
                            >
                            > Do not use on natural gas or LP gas piping systems operating at
                            > pressures exceeding 1/2 psig.
                            >
                            > I'm sure there's a large safety margin built into that? But 1/2 psig???
                            > That's nothing!
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                          • Ronald Hongsermeier
                            The safety margin is that you re supposed to use it for what it is made for; i.e., feeding a 1/2psi device.FULLSTOP. This says nothing about it s suitability
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                              The safety margin is that you're supposed to use it for what it is made for; i.e., feeding a 1/2psi device.FULLSTOP.

                              This says nothing about it's suitability for operating as an air-preheating input to a gasifier, which isn't even _really_ dependent on it being 100% tight. After all, what's it going to suck in except volitiles and tar and water vapor? (unless of course you decide to put a water bath in the outside tube of your gasifier-- duh!)

                              Tomorrow if several things don't go seriously wrong, I'm going to test another stove. :) Baby steps.

                              regards,
                              Ron


                              > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                              > Von: <jantoven@...>
                              > Gesendet: 01.02.09 18:57:46
                              > An: <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Betreff: Re: [WoodGas] GEK question,,stainless lines??


                              > Just looked at the label on a 5/8 line. One item says:
                              >
                              > Do not use on natural gas or LP gas piping systems operating at
                              > pressures exceeding 1/2 psig.
                              >
                              > I'm sure there's a large safety margin built into that? But 1/2 psig??
                              > ? That's nothing!
                              >
                              >
                            • Mike LaRosa
                              Ron, Good luck with your stove .... Stuper Bowl is blasting here .. Most gas valves have the final regulator built in .. There is always a primary regulator at
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                                Ron, Good luck with your stove .... Stuper Bowl is blasting here ..
                                Most gas valves have the final regulator built in .. There is always a
                                primary regulator at the natural gas service or the LP tank ..
                                Pressure after that you can stop with your tongue .. Somebody build
                                something please ... My 2 cents .. Mike


                                --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Hongsermeier <rwhongser@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > The safety margin is that you're supposed to use it for what it is
                                made for; i.e., feeding a 1/2psi device.FULLSTOP.
                                >
                                > This says nothing about it's suitability for operating as an
                                air-preheating input to a gasifier, which isn't even _really_
                                dependent on it being 100% tight. After all, what's it going to suck
                                in except volitiles and tar and water vapor? (unless of course you
                                decide to put a water bath in the outside tube of your gasifier-- duh!)
                                >
                                > Tomorrow if several things don't go seriously wrong, I'm going to
                                test another stove. :) Baby steps.
                                >
                                > regards,
                                > Ron
                                >
                                >
                                > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                                > > Von: <jantoven@...>
                                > > Gesendet: 01.02.09 18:57:46
                                > > An: <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
                                > > Betreff: Re: [WoodGas] GEK question,,stainless lines??
                                >
                                >
                                > > Just looked at the label on a 5/8 line. One item says:
                                > >
                                > > Do not use on natural gas or LP gas piping systems operating at
                                > > pressures exceeding 1/2 psig.
                                > >
                                > > I'm sure there's a large safety margin built into that? But 1/2 psig??
                                > > ? That's nothing!
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • jim mason
                                you guys are really overthinking the abilities of this line. it is difficult to make a 1/2psi rated line of metal that will fail at the usual 5x overpressure.
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                                  you guys are really overthinking the abilities of this line. it is difficult to make a 1/2psi
                                  rated line of metal that will fail at the usual 5x overpressure. ever tried to break metal
                                  with 2.5psi? might not even break kleenex.

                                  this tube is often used on full pressure propane, or 200psi. it is likely about the same
                                  tube and process that forms the inside of a ss flex lines with braid around them. those are
                                  usually 300psi rated, even at much larger diameters. these lines are made burly for
                                  mechanical strength likely more so than pressure. you need to be able to drop a 500lb
                                  stove on them and not have them break.

                                  if you are worried, go pump one up to 120psi on your air compressor and bang on it with
                                  a hammer. i doubt you can get it to break until you fully flatten it.

                                  using something how it was designed to be used is, umm, unimaginative. especially when
                                  it is only seeing less than 1" of h2o vacuum. . .

                                  j




                                  --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Ron, Good luck with your stove .... Stuper Bowl is blasting here ..
                                  > Most gas valves have the final regulator built in .. There is always a
                                  > primary regulator at the natural gas service or the LP tank ..
                                  > Pressure after that you can stop with your tongue .. Somebody build
                                  > something please ... My 2 cents .. Mike
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Hongsermeier <rwhongser@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > The safety margin is that you're supposed to use it for what it is
                                  > made for; i.e., feeding a 1/2psi device.FULLSTOP.
                                  > >
                                  > > This says nothing about it's suitability for operating as an
                                  > air-preheating input to a gasifier, which isn't even _really_
                                  > dependent on it being 100% tight. After all, what's it going to suck
                                  > in except volitiles and tar and water vapor? (unless of course you
                                  > decide to put a water bath in the outside tube of your gasifier-- duh!)
                                  > >
                                  > > Tomorrow if several things don't go seriously wrong, I'm going to
                                  > test another stove. :) Baby steps.
                                  > >
                                  > > regards,
                                  > > Ron
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                                  > > > Von: <jantoven@>
                                  > > > Gesendet: 01.02.09 18:57:46
                                  > > > An: <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > Betreff: Re: [WoodGas] GEK question,,stainless lines??
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > Just looked at the label on a 5/8 line. One item says:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Do not use on natural gas or LP gas piping systems operating at
                                  > > > pressures exceeding 1/2 psig.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I'm sure there's a large safety margin built into that? But 1/2 psig??
                                  > > > ? That's nothing!
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • mikeotter
                                  ... difficult to make a 1/2psi ... ever tried to break metal ... likely about the same ... around them. those are ... are made burly for ... able to drop a
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                                    > you guys are really overthinking the abilities of this line. it is
                                    difficult to make a 1/2psi
                                    > rated line of metal that will fail at the usual 5x overpressure.
                                    ever tried to break metal
                                    > with 2.5psi? might not even break kleenex.
                                    >
                                    > this tube is often used on full pressure propane, or 200psi. it is
                                    likely about the same
                                    > tube and process that forms the inside of a ss flex lines with braid
                                    around them. those are
                                    > usually 300psi rated, even at much larger diameters. these lines
                                    are made burly for
                                    > mechanical strength likely more so than pressure. you need to be
                                    able to drop a 500lb
                                    > stove on them and not have them break.
                                    >
                                    > if you are worried, go pump one up to 120psi on your air compressor
                                    and bang on it with
                                    > a hammer. i doubt you can get it to break until you fully flatten it.
                                    >
                                    > using something how it was designed to be used is, umm,
                                    unimaginative. especially when
                                    > it is only seeing less than 1" of h2o vacuum. . .
                                    >


                                    j and Mike,
                                    I almost just got in my truck and went down to my loony buddies place.
                                    This guy likes to blow stuff up. Anyhow, I was looking at one of the
                                    old flexible gas lines I had and got this horrible idea.(Thank God
                                    it's not April 1) I was going to go explode the end off one of these
                                    things and post a picture on here.You know, kind of a look what
                                    happens to these things when exposed to wood-gas. Wait a few days
                                    before I let the cat out of the bag!!! Then I got thinking about all
                                    the good Jim,and the crew in California are doing in getting these
                                    things to market so actual testing and mods can take place. I got
                                    worried people wouldn't see the joke for what it was. Jim, My hat is
                                    off to you for coming up with the idea for increasing the surface area
                                    using them stainless lines. THAT ONE THING may big the biggest
                                    advancement in years to basic design of gasifiers. I have seen a stove
                                    hanging from one of them and the thing didn't even pull out of the
                                    flare nut!!!

                                    Mike KB8OOE
                                  • david nichols
                                    thanks a bunch jim,,i never thought of home depot,,ill give it a try!!!! ________________________________ From: jim mason To:
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                                      thanks a bunch jim,,i never thought of home depot,,ill give it a try!!!!




                                      ________________________________
                                      From: jim mason <jimmason@...>
                                      To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 1:03:12 AM
                                      Subject: [WoodGas] Re: GEK question,,stainless lines??


                                      --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, david nichols <dnich111@.. .> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > im looking for some kind of ribbed flexable stainless steel lines
                                      like jim uses in the gek units for an external heat
                                      exchange/cooler, ,does anybody know of a company that makes them ??,,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      david, these are simply natural gas lines for stoves or dryers. they
                                      are called "gas connectors", and you can get them at any hardware store.

                                      there are both 5/8" and 3/4" internal diameter ones common for these
                                      applications. i have used both of them, but now have a giant pile of
                                      the 3/4" that i'm standardizing one. you can do the math for the
                                      amount of air intake you need. the ends come in both flare to 1/2npt
                                      or 3/4npt. i use the 1/2" lengths are 2' through 6'. i use 6' ones.
                                      they are somewhat hard to find. 5' is easy to find.

                                      if you want longer lengths or it, look at the flex nat gas
                                      distribution line now used instead of hard plumbing. it is this flex
                                      line but with yellow paper over it.

                                      if you want a really gigantic amount, i found a company in china that
                                      will send you over a boatload of it.

                                      i think it is much easier to work with the ones with ends.

                                      >
                                      > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • jim mason
                                      ... home depot will likely only have the yellow paint covered ones. you need the bare stainless steel ones. home depot gets their supply from brasscraft,
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Feb 1, 2009
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                                        --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, david nichols <dnich111@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > thanks a bunch jim,,i never thought of home depot,,ill give it a try!!!!
                                        >
                                        >

                                        home depot will likely only have the yellow paint covered ones. you
                                        need the bare stainless steel ones. home depot gets their supply from
                                        brasscraft, which only makes the yellow ones. or at least that is how
                                        it is around me.

                                        ace will usually have bare ones.

                                        better yet, go to a real plumbing supply store. they will usually
                                        have the largest selection. you will pay $25-$30 each for the 5' or
                                        6' ones.




                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: jim mason <jimmason@...>
                                        > To: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 1:03:12 AM
                                        > Subject: [WoodGas] Re: GEK question,,stainless lines??
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups .com, david nichols <dnich111@ .> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > im looking for some kind of ribbed flexable stainless steel lines
                                        > like jim uses in the gek units for an external heat
                                        > exchange/cooler, ,does anybody know of a company that makes them ??,,
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > david, these are simply natural gas lines for stoves or dryers. they
                                        > are called "gas connectors", and you can get them at any hardware
                                        store.
                                        >
                                        > there are both 5/8" and 3/4" internal diameter ones common for these
                                        > applications. i have used both of them, but now have a giant pile of
                                        > the 3/4" that i'm standardizing one. you can do the math for the
                                        > amount of air intake you need. the ends come in both flare to 1/2npt
                                        > or 3/4npt. i use the 1/2" lengths are 2' through 6'. i use 6' ones.
                                        > they are somewhat hard to find. 5' is easy to find.
                                        >
                                        > if you want longer lengths or it, look at the flex nat gas
                                        > distribution line now used instead of hard plumbing. it is this flex
                                        > line but with yellow paper over it.
                                        >
                                        > if you want a really gigantic amount, i found a company in china that
                                        > will send you over a boatload of it.
                                        >
                                        > i think it is much easier to work with the ones with ends.
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • Ronald Hongsermeier
                                        Dear Jim, I guess I need to be explicit that I was neither criticizing your use of the flex line in the design nor claiming that it would break when
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Dear Jim,

                                          I guess I need to be explicit that I was neither criticizing your use of the flex line in the design nor claiming that it would break when over-pressured. Sorry for confusing things in the message pipeline. The company that produces and labels the lines is just trying to achieve legal security for themselves. They can't be sued if someone in the aeronautics industry uses the lines for lubrication in a rotor head design...

                                          regards,
                                          Ron H



                                          > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                                          > Von: "jim mason" <jimmason@...>
                                          > Gesendet: 02.02.09 03:53:31
                                          > An: WoodGas@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Betreff: [WoodGas] Re: GEK question,,stainless lines??


                                          > you guys are really overthinking the abilities of this line. it is
                                          > difficult to make a 1/2psi
                                          > rated line of metal that will fail at the usual 5x overpressure. ever
                                          > tried to break metal
                                          > with 2.5psi? might not even break kleenex.
                                          >
                                          > this tube is often used on full pressure propane, or 200psi. it is
                                          > likely about the same
                                          > tube and process that forms the inside of a ss flex lines with braid
                                          > around them. those are
                                          > usually 300psi rated, even at much larger diameters. these lines are
                                          > made burly for
                                          > mechanical strength likely more so than pressure. you need to be able
                                          > to drop a 500lb
                                          > stove on them and not have them break.
                                          >
                                          > if you are worried, go pump one up to 120psi on your air compressor
                                          > and bang on it with
                                          > a hammer. i doubt you can get it to break until you fully flatten it.
                                          >
                                          > using something how it was designed to be used is, umm, unimaginative.
                                          > especially when
                                          > it is only seeing less than 1" of h2o vacuum. . .
                                          >
                                          > j
                                          >
                                          > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, "Mike LaRosa" <ook187@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Ron, Good luck with your stove .... Stuper Bowl is blasting here ..
                                          > > Most gas valves have the final regulator built in .. There is
                                          > always a
                                          > > primary regulator at the natural gas service or the LP tank ..
                                          > > Pressure after that you can stop with your tongue .. Somebody build
                                          > > something please ... My 2 cents .. Mike
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In WoodGas@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Hongsermeier <rwhongser@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The safety margin is that you're supposed to use it for what it is
                                          > > made for; i.e., feeding a 1/2psi device.FULLSTOP.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > This says nothing about it's suitability for operating as an
                                          > > air-preheating input to a gasifier, which isn't even _really_
                                          > > dependent on it being 100% tight. After all, what's it going to suck
                                          > > in except volitiles and tar and water vapor? (unless of course you
                                          > > decide to put a water bath in the outside tube of your gasifier--
                                          > duh!)
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Tomorrow if several things don't go seriously wrong, I'm going to
                                          > > test another stove. :) Baby steps.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > regards,
                                          > > > Ron
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                                          > > > > Von: <jantoven@>
                                          > > > > Gesendet: 01.02.09 18:57:46
                                          > > > > An: <WoodGas@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > > > Betreff: Re: [WoodGas] GEK question,,stainless lines??
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > Just looked at the label on a 5/8 line. One item says:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Do not use on natural gas or LP gas piping systems operating at
                                          > > > > pressures exceeding 1/2 psig.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I'm sure there's a large safety margin built into that? But 1/2
                                          > psig??
                                          > > > > ? That's nothing!
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
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