Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [WitchesWorkshop] Re: Guilt

Expand Messages
  • Blue Owl
    Hi, I just skim read your post - the comments you made about good v bad in the context of guilt, and the subjective nature of the good-bad dichotomy reminded
    Message 1 of 41 , Mar 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi,

      I just skim read your post - the comments you made about good v bad in the
      context of guilt, and the subjective nature of the good-bad dichotomy
      reminded me of Nietzsche. Have a look at some of his literature - you might
      find it interesting if you are not already acquainted with it.

      You will find several of his more famous pieces located on "The Archive"
      here:

      http://www.geocities.com/les_archives_a_droit/

      See particularly "Beyong Good and Evil", which is archived as file number 5.

      Cheers,

      Blue Owl.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Ninox Tamara" <ninox4@...>
      To: <WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 8:08 PM
      Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Re: Guilt


      > Hi Doug, Jonathon and all
      >
      > personally, one of the things that drew me paganism was the notion of
      > personal responsibility and the apparent absence of guilt as a tool
      > of manipulation.
      >
      > In order to feel guilt i must believe that i have done something
      > "wrong". However i have come to my own set of beliefs over time and
      > with guidance from mentors etc, and not had a system/ structure/ list
      > of good and bad imposed on me. Thus if i am living *my* faith/ path i
      > would not be experiencing guilt because i would not be doing stuff
      > that is at odds with *my* beliefs. (this ofcourse begs questions like
      > - so if i believe rape is ok then i don't feel guilty about it... is
      > that ok? but that is another discussion about the nature of "good"
      > and "evil" as opposed to the nature of guilt in paganism which is
      > this thread)
      >
      > As a pagan, if i do do something that is "against" my beliefs and
      > feel the need to accept/ deal with/ process it (none of which require
      > guilt) with spirit/ god/ goddess/ all that is... i don't have to wait
      > til a certain day to go and release my feelings, nor do i need
      > someone else to "absolve" me - I deal direct! and i can do so as soon
      > as i want to... or don't want to.
      >
      > Guilt, like so many things, works a variety ways - one way is guilt
      > that you feel about something based on the belief system you hold,
      > that you inflict on yourself as a result of doing something which is
      > at odds to what you hold dear, as i have already mentioned.
      >
      > another way it works is guilt that is used as a control tool by
      > another to shame or otherwise manipulate you into doing things their
      > way. This results in the other (person, organisation etc) having
      > power over you.
      >
      > To my way of thinking guilt is a bit like worry and holding grudges -
      > it uses lots of energy and doesn't achieve anything and the only one
      > who really suffers is you. As Jonathon said, guilt is strongly linked
      > to fear and i would add, to loss of personal power/control and thus
      > it opens you to manipulation.
      >
      > Guilt results in you feeling negative about yourself.
      > Guilt is something you can choose to accept or reject. And for me,
      > this is an example of personal responsibility.
      >
      > IMO Personal Responsibility is about empowerment and honesty. It says
      > "I am the boss of me" - I have the freedom to choose my behaviours,
      > responses etc and i take responsibility for the choices and the
      > consequences, whatever they are. By responsibility i mean that i do
      > not blame others for the choices i make eg "y o u made me angry/
      > sad/ happy etc"... So if i choose and accept the consequences, i do
      > not experience guilt and guilt is not something that can be used to
      > manipulate me.
      >
      > Obviously some have a great deal more choices than others - an
      > illiterate, poverty stricken, starving mother with child whose home
      > is destroyed in a war that she does not support is not to blame for
      > the war etc. and she has very limited choices. Her choices are at a
      > "lower" (think Maslow) level; they are to do with survival.
      >
      > Those of us fortunate to be "higher", have a far wider range of
      > choices and we have much, much more personal responsibility.
      >
      > Personal responsibility takes courage and humility. It means that i
      > have to accept that there are some things that i don't have much/ any
      > control over(... yet) and rather than waste energy and time on those
      > things, i have to let go, and move on to stuff i can do something
      > about. It means that i am going to endeavour to be as well prepared
      > as i can so that ignorance is not an excuse nor is expecting others
      > to take responsibility for me, it means that i will seek help when i
      > need it rather than live in denial or pride, it means that i will
      > admit any errors i make when i realise i have made one and i will do
      > what i can to rectify the situation, it means that i will be as clear
      > and honest in my communications with others as i can and not seek to
      > mislead or manipulate etc.
      >
      > I hope you get the gist of my idea of personal responsibility from my
      > ramblings:) It is a concept that guides every choice i make because i
      > consider the possible consquences. Often consequences happen that i
      > had not thought of... but that is the *magic* for me, that is the
      > time when i can again exercise my personal responsibility and choose
      > how i respond... and what i learn... and so it goes. And enough from
      > me - for now.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > =====
      > May you walk gently through the world and know its beauty
      >
      > Ninox Tamara ;>
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
      > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
      >
      > ___________________________________________________
      >
      > The WitchesWorkshop egroup holds the expectation
      > that a tolerant and respectful dialogue be strived
      > for in our communication with other pagans, witches
      > magicians, et al. Members are encouraged to
      > challenge anyone not adhering to these principles
      > and to notify the list-owners. ozpagan@...
      >
      > www.witchesworkshop.com
      >
      > ___________________________________________________
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      --
      __________________________________________________________
      Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
      http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
    • Tim Hartridge
      Hi Tish, Yeah Kylie s email account appears to have been hacked. I ll switch her settings for the time being until it s sorted. vinum sabbati, Tim Hartridge
      Message 41 of 41 , Jul 4, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Tish,

        Yeah Kylie's email account appears to have been hacked. I'll switch
        her settings for the time being until it's sorted.


        vinum sabbati,
        Tim Hartridge <moderator>

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WitchesWorkshop/
        http://www.facebook.com/WitchesWorkshop
        http://www.witchesworkshop.com
        http://www.witchcampaustralia.org.au



        On 01/07/2011, at 10:47 PM, Tish wrote:

        > Anyone need some more Viagra *g*..
        >
        >
        > Obviously Kylie thinks we pagans need a helping hand with some
        > things..*g* as this is the 4th pagan group I have seen this viagra
        > link
        > from her..
        > More likely I think her address has been hacked..so Kylie if that
        > be the case this is an alert for you
        >
        > Tish
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.