Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Wiring challenge for a GURU

Expand Messages
  • Carl
    Hello Richard and Don V: I think you could wire the Northern Section as one large reversing section. I up loaded a new file with the limits marked by a red
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 22, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Richard and Don V:

      I think you could wire the Northern Section as one large reversing
      section. I up loaded a new file with the limits marked by a red line:

      http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oGhrT9vN6IcA5MLc_MzCTwnqqN6BXbqS49KMnTVGcETRKcBkk9sr8degeDVtezi0wgsepesNF1bznHoLUNZSdOUF2B9D7nV2/Dix%20Vally%20layout/DixValley%20basic%20layout%20Reversing%20section.png

      I circled the three spots where there really is reversing of the CW /
      CCW direction, but they look too short to hold a train length. But the
      whole section could be wired as a reversing section. The arrangement of
      tracks doesn't suggest running multiple trains at the same time so two
      trains crossing the gaps at once should not be a problem. If this is a
      problem the Northern Section could be split into two or three sections.

      Good luck, Carl.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • rneilphoto@aol.com
      Not quite sure I understand about some the area in question, so I ve posted a new DixValley overall layout plan w-turnout I.D.s in the files so that we can
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 24, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Not quite sure I understand about some the area in question, so I've posted a new "DixValley overall layout plan w-turnout I.D.s" in the files so that we can more clearly communicate or describe the area/sections/boundries/travel direction/locations, etc. I think the areas that you refer to have double slip switch & 3 way turnout, both Peco Insul-frog.
        Thanks for your help with this. This greenhorn/freshman appreciates it.
        Richard Albrecht



        --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@...> wrote:
        >
        > I looked at your diagrams. What is that track thing at the bottom of what you are calling Reverse Loop 2? Two track switches joined at the point ends? (this is my guess) A narrow angle crossing? A double crossover? An over/underpass with no connections between upper & lower tracks? Same question about the track thing near the lower left where a siding and loop tracks cross. >
        > Most of what you are calling reversing loops are simple oval loops that do not reverse the CW/CCW general train direction except when/if it passes through certain sections. Those sections are 1) lower right of 'Rev Loop 2', 2) Left side of 'Rev Loop 2', and 3) The curve portion of the Wye going up from bottom center toward the left. Follow a train with your finger around the layout going CCW. No path reverses the direction except that of my #2). When going CW you can use my #1) or #3) to reverse the direction. At minimum, these tracks need auto-reversers.
        >
        > So... How long are those 3 sections of track compared to overall train lengths? If they are shorter than a whole train we may need to do more thinking.
        >
        > DonV
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rneilphoto@...
        > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 1:05 PM
        > To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring challenge for a GURU
        >
        > Is there a wiring Guru that can help w/this?
        > OK, who's up to a real challenge? Or is the following even possible? Am I nuts for even attempting this??
        > I'm newcomer to the forum & I'm a beginner w/an ambitious, if not insane, 1st time layout in a VERY small space and have VERY little knowledge about wiring & DCC. I thought that I'd just jump right in w/a wiring dilema.
        >
        > I have Peco Insul-frog turnouts and a few old Atlas snap switch turnouts (may or may not use). I have enough Tortoise machines to operate every turnout (which won't be DCC decoder operated). I have NCE power-Cab command controller & 5 amp boosters. I'm willing to look at other product manufacturers for things like distribution, districts, circuit breakers, detectors, sensors, etc. I plan to use 14 gauge bus wires with 22 gauge (maybe 20 gauge) feeder wire. Sub-Bus info/suggestions will be helpful.
        >
        > I don't have a clue about where use insulated joiners or use/make gaps, what to wire to what or where to use & wire distribution/district panel/circuit breaker. I don't even know which of these, if any/all, I need or where they might go in the whole wiring schematic/scheme of things. What has to be done at the crossings? I don't know how to wire the layout for the reverse loops & wyes & crossings. I think I've identified all of them (see Dix Valley folder files), but would appreciate knowing about any that I've overlooked or those that I can eliminate/be unconcerned about. I don't know if some of the wiring/connections that have wyes and crossings included within reverse loop areas will have special wiring needs or somehow overlap each other & so are unnecessarily redundant and become irrelevant or cause a conflict that will need special attention. I've identified at least 7 wyes, 3 crossings, & I think 13 reverse loops... again, in a VERY small space. There may be more & would like to know about them.
        >
        > I've created a folder (Dix Valley layout) w/several files showing the overall plan + the Wyes & loops as I see them. There are 3 obvious crossings as seen on the basic plan.
        >
        > I've been reading the "Wiring For DCC" information & will continue to do so. (I now know just enough to be dangerous to myself & others). Most of it is slowly sinking in & I want to get started on wiring the layout so I can get on to my next phase of the layout.
        >
        > Can anybody help me? Does anyone feel up to the challenge? I've added SEVERAL images of my track layout design with images of the areas that I have identified so far as loops & wyes.
        > I hope that somebody can help!
        > Thanks in advance,
        > Richard (RR Dick/Dix Valley RR)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links
        >
      • rneilphoto@aol.com
        Hi Carl, I ve posted a new DixValley overall layout plan w-turnout I.D.s in the group files so that we all can more clearly communicate or describe the
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 24, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Carl, I've posted a new "DixValley overall layout plan w-turnout" I.D.s in the group files so that we all can more clearly communicate or describe the area/sections/boundries/travel direction/locations, etc. I've ID'ed the turnouts by T# (turnout) & if it's an old Atlas snap switch. I hope this facilitates our chats. This freshman/greehorn appreciated your patient help in this endevor. Hope to hear from you soon.
          Richard Albrecht


          --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Richard and Don V:
          >
          > I think you could wire the Northern Section as one large reversing
          > section. I up loaded a new file with the limits marked by a red line:
          >
          > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oGhrT9vN6IcA5MLc_MzCTwnqqN6BXbqS49KMnTVGcETRKcBkk9sr8degeDVtezi0wgsepesNF1bznHoLUNZSdOUF2B9D7nV2/Dix%20Vally%20layout/DixValley%20basic%20layout%20Reversing%20section.png
          >
          > I circled the three spots where there really is reversing of the CW /
          > CCW direction, but they look too short to hold a train length. But the
          > whole section could be wired as a reversing section. The arrangement of
          > tracks doesn't suggest running multiple trains at the same time so two
          > trains crossing the gaps at once should not be a problem. If this is a
          > problem the Northern Section could be split into two or three sections.
          >
          > Good luck, Carl.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Carl
          Hello Richard: Thanks for the numbers and also the layout scale. So here are the double gaps I would put in:
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 24, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Richard:

            Thanks for the numbers and also the layout scale. So here are the double
            gaps I would put in:

            Location.........................................Polarity A.......Polarity B
            1) Left side of T13.........................OK..................Rev
            2) North of C1................................Rev.................OK
            3) North of C2................................OK.................Rev
            4) Center of T24.............................OK.................Rev
            5) Right of T24...............................Rev................OK
            6) Between T25 and T6..................Rev................OK
            7) Right side of T4 leading to T6....OK................Rev

            Also are the frogs on the crossings insulated? Totally different
            problem, but need to ask.

            On Jim's layout we put auto reversers in, but they didn't reverse
            without a bit of stalling. So we put a Red/Green LED on the dispatcher
            panel at each gap wired to show if the polarity was correct ( green ).
            Then we put a DPDT push on / push off micro switch wired to reverse the
            polarity. As soon as you push it the LED changes. We would also like to
            put dwarf signals at each gap so the operators can alert the dispatcher
            of trouble. You could even put an extra DPDT button for the operator to
            push, but that is more wire.

            If I were doing this with Digitrax and has two boosters I would use one
            booster for each section and have one set for auto reverse.

            Good luck, Carl.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • rneilphoto@aol.com
            Geez Carl, Wow, Thanks... very helpful. Glad I added ID # s & such. If there s more info that you need to help me along in my crazy quest, let me know...
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 24, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Geez Carl, Wow, Thanks... very helpful. Glad I added ID #'s & such. If there's more info that you need to help me along in my crazy quest, let me know... I'll answer as best i can.
              Richard aka RR DIck

              --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Richard:
              >
              > Thanks for the numbers and also the layout scale. So here are the double
              > gaps I would put in:
              >
              > Location.........................................Polarity A.......Polarity B
              > 1) Left side of T13.........................OK..................Rev
              > 2) North of C1................................Rev.................OK
              > 3) North of C2................................OK.................Rev
              > 4) Center of T24.............................OK.................Rev
              > 5) Right of T24...............................Rev................OK
              > 6) Between T25 and T6..................Rev................OK
              > 7) Right side of T4 leading to T6....OK................Rev
              >
              > Also are the frogs on the crossings insulated? Totally different
              > problem, but need to ask.
              >
              > On Jim's layout we put auto reversers in, but they didn't reverse
              > without a bit of stalling. So we put a Red/Green LED on the dispatcher
              > panel at each gap wired to show if the polarity was correct ( green ).
              > Then we put a DPDT push on / push off micro switch wired to reverse the
              > polarity. As soon as you push it the LED changes. We would also like to
              > put dwarf signals at each gap so the operators can alert the dispatcher
              > of trouble. You could even put an extra DPDT button for the operator to
              > push, but that is more wire.
              >
              > If I were doing this with Digitrax and has two boosters I would use one
              > booster for each section and have one set for auto reverse.
              >
              > Good luck, Carl.
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • dvollrath@magnetek.com
              I ve taken Carl s idea a little further and showed you where to put the isolating gaps (red)to yield a single A-R section. In case you want to run two trains
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 24, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                I've taken Carl's idea a little further and showed you where to put the isolating gaps (red)to yield a single A-R section. In case you want to run two trains at once through the tunnels in oposite directions I've also shown where to put two more gaps (green) to have two separate A-R sections. Add insulating joiners or cut rail gaps in both rails at all points indicated. All tracks and turnouts between the gap locations must be tied to the same constant polarity DCC mains or to the same Auto-Reverser output.
                Looks like you have selected double slip switches at turnouts T16, T20 and T25. that answers one of my previous questions.

                DonV

                --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Richard and Don V:
                >
                > I think you could wire the Northern Section as one large reversing
                > section. I up loaded a new file with the limits marked by a red line:
                >
                > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oGhrT9vN6IcA5MLc_MzCTwnqqN6BXbqS49KMnTVGcETRKcBkk9sr8degeDVtezi0wgsepesNF1bznHoLUNZSdOUF2B9D7nV2/Dix%20Vally%20layout/DixValley%20basic%20layout%20Reversing%20section.png
                >
                > I circled the three spots where there really is reversing of the CW /
                > CCW direction, but they look too short to hold a train length. But the
                > whole section could be wired as a reversing section. The arrangement of
                > tracks doesn't suggest running multiple trains at the same time so two
                > trains crossing the gaps at once should not be a problem. If this is a
                > problem the Northern Section could be split into two or three sections.
                >
                > Good luck, Carl.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • rneilphoto@aol.com
                Hi Carl, You asked... Also are the frogs on the crossings insulated? Totally different problem, but need to ask. I think so, but don t know for sure. How
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 25, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Carl,
                  You asked... "Also are the frogs on the crossings insulated? Totally different problem, but need to ask." I think so, but don't know for sure. How can I tell... (novice at work)? I'll get back to you with the info after I hear from you.

                  Regard, Richard


                  --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, rneilphoto@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Geez Carl, Wow, Thanks... very helpful. Glad I added ID #'s & such. If there's more info that you need to help me along in my crazy quest, let me know... I'll answer as best i can.
                  > Richard aka RR DIck
                  >
                  > --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, Carl <carl.blum@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Richard:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for the numbers and also the layout scale. So here are the double
                  > > gaps I would put in:
                  > >
                  > > Location.........................................Polarity A.......Polarity B
                  > > 1) Left side of T13.........................OK..................Rev
                  > > 2) North of C1................................Rev.................OK
                  > > 3) North of C2................................OK.................Rev
                  > > 4) Center of T24.............................OK.................Rev
                  > > 5) Right of T24...............................Rev................OK
                  > > 6) Between T25 and T6..................Rev................OK
                  > > 7) Right side of T4 leading to T6....OK................Rev
                  > >
                  > > Also are the frogs on the crossings insulated? Totally different
                  > > problem, but need to ask.
                  > >
                  > > On Jim's layout we put auto reversers in, but they didn't reverse
                  > > without a bit of stalling. So we put a Red/Green LED on the dispatcher
                  > > panel at each gap wired to show if the polarity was correct ( green ).
                  > > Then we put a DPDT push on / push off micro switch wired to reverse the
                  > > polarity. As soon as you push it the LED changes. We would also like to
                  > > put dwarf signals at each gap so the operators can alert the dispatcher
                  > > of trouble. You could even put an extra DPDT button for the operator to
                  > > push, but that is more wire.
                  > >
                  > > If I were doing this with Digitrax and has two boosters I would use one
                  > > booster for each section and have one set for auto reverse.
                  > >
                  > > Good luck, Carl.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                • rneilphoto@aol.com
                  Just to confirm... you said double slip switches at turnouts T16, T20 and T25 Yup, you re right.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 25, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Just to confirm... you said " double slip switches at turnouts T16, T20 and T25" Yup, you're right.


                    --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, dvollrath@... wrote:
                    >
                    > I've taken Carl's idea a little further and showed you where to put the isolating gaps (red)to yield a single A-R section. In case you want to run two trains at once through the tunnels in oposite directions I've also shown where to put two more gaps (green) to have two separate A-R sections. Add insulating joiners or cut rail gaps in both rails at all points indicated. All tracks and turnouts between the gap locations must be tied to the same constant polarity DCC mains or to the same Auto-Reverser output.
                    > Looks like you have selected double slip switches at turnouts T16, T20 and T25. that answers one of my previous questions.
                    >
                    > DonV
                    >
                    > --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, Carl <carl.blum@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Richard and Don V:
                    > >
                    > > I think you could wire the Northern Section as one large reversing
                    > > section. I up loaded a new file with the limits marked by a red line:
                    > >
                    > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oGhrT9vN6IcA5MLc_MzCTwnqqN6BXbqS49KMnTVGcETRKcBkk9sr8degeDVtezi0wgsepesNF1bznHoLUNZSdOUF2B9D7nV2/Dix%20Vally%20layout/DixValley%20basic%20layout%20Reversing%20section.png
                    > >
                    > > I circled the three spots where there really is reversing of the CW /
                    > > CCW direction, but they look too short to hold a train length. But the
                    > > whole section could be wired as a reversing section. The arrangement of
                    > > tracks doesn't suggest running multiple trains at the same time so two
                    > > trains crossing the gaps at once should not be a problem. If this is a
                    > > problem the Northern Section could be split into two or three sections.
                    > >
                    > > Good luck, Carl.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                  • Carl
                    Hello Richard: If they are insulated there will be plastic insulation at each frog. If not they have solid metal frogs and four gaps, one between each pair of
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 25, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello Richard:

                      If they are insulated there will be plastic insulation at each frog. If
                      not they have solid metal frogs and four gaps, one between each pair of
                      frogs. These need to be power routed for the direction the train is
                      crossing. More work, but somewhat better for DCC, no frog shorts.

                      I really like the file Donevol posted with the two reversing sections
                      and a fixed polarity section between the two.

                      What sort of operations do you plan on having? Running trains,
                      schedules, switching, etc.? How many operators at once?

                      Good luck, Carl.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Richard
                      Plastic at all corner intersections... no solid rails. I m just freelancing w/influence toward 1950 s transition thru 1970 s era. It s just a personal size
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 25, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Plastic at all corner intersections... no solid rails. I'm just freelancing w/influence toward 1950's transition thru 1970's era. It's just a personal size layout, just room wife & me (had very lmt'd space in backyard to build a small shed space). She's getting quite good @ painting/weathering structures & will soon begin building some. Probably not going to try such on locos & cars, but who knows... maybe.

                        BTW, any comments/suggestions on the use of districts? Would they influence gaping & rev. loop wiring?


                        Richard aka Dick




                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Carl <carl.blum@...>
                        To: WiringForDCC <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sun, Mar 25, 2012 8:12 am
                        Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Wiring challenge for a GURU




                        Hello Richard:

                        If they are insulated there will be plastic insulation at each frog. If
                        not they have solid metal frogs and four gaps, one between each pair of
                        frogs. These need to be power routed for the direction the train is
                        crossing. More work, but somewhat better for DCC, no frog shorts.

                        I really like the file Donevol posted with the two reversing sections
                        and a fixed polarity section between the two.

                        What sort of operations do you plan on having? Running trains,
                        schedules, switching, etc.? How many operators at once?

                        Good luck, Carl.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Carl
                        Hello Dick: It is great to have your wife to share the hobby. Model railroading requires and builds so many skills it is hard to beat. Not to mention good
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 25, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hello Dick:

                          It is great to have your wife to share the hobby. Model railroading
                          requires and builds so many skills it is hard to beat. Not to mention
                          good times together.

                          At Jim's we have 5 power districts, three for the three towns, and one
                          each for the yard and mainlines. We usually have 4 operators at a time.
                          With the power districts a minor short in the yard doesn't disrupt the
                          switching in the yard. We use Kadee couplers a momentary shorts can
                          re-set your couplers when you are trying to spot a car at an industry.

                          Good luck, Carl.


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.