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Re: [WiringForDCC] Room Wiring

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  • GRAHAM LOGAN
    Hi mate, play safe and get an electrician, you know it makes sense and will be cheaper in the long run.   Graham Fife Scotland
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 10, 2012
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      Hi mate, play safe and get an electrician, you know it makes sense and will be cheaper in the long run.
       
      Graham
      Fife
      Scotland


      ________________________________
      From: D. L. Turnock <the_crusher@...>
      To: Wiring For DCC <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, 10 March 2012, 1:28
      Subject: [WiringForDCC] Room Wiring


       
      Good Evening,

      I have a new question concerning room wiring to support DCC.

      My plans are to have 4 levels (2 staging) around the walls with approximately 4 boosters – 1 per level. I run N Scale and I do not plan to run sound, but each booster will be 7 amps (EASY DCC). The household circuit wiring is 120VAC/15A.

      Therefore, It would appear that I would need to add an additional circuit (or 2) for the layout room. There is always turnout turnout power, signalling, lighting, etc.

      Has anyone else had to add household circuits for their layout as they add more boosters? I guess the other question is whether this is difficult? I am mechanically inclined, but 220VAC, fuse boxes, and the like scare the crap out of me. I should mention that I blew the whole house offline trying to splice in a lighting circuit

      Thanks,

      Dave T

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Al Silverstein
      David, My layout is a two level around the room layout, with an island in N scale. I periodically have a small group of friends over for a formal operating
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 10, 2012
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        David,

        My layout is a two level around the room layout, with an island in N scale.
        I periodically have a small group of friends over for a formal operating
        session. This group usually consists of 4 adults and one teenage.

        I have found that a single command station and booster, in my case a
        Digitrax DSC100 and DB150 (each 5A output), can get the job done easily of
        powering the layout. The command station is in one corner and covers both
        levels of the adjacent walls while the booster is in the opposite corner and
        covers both levels of the adjacent walls. In addition I push the DCC
        experience and have over 19 DCC layout control devices that handle the
        control of my turnouts, signaling system, building lights, street lights and
        even the under the layout SurroundTaxx sound system. There is a television
        in the room along with a mobile work station equipped with lamp, soldering
        iron, and even cordless phone charging station. This room and the adjacent
        room are covered by a 15 amp breaker.

        I use a distributive method of DCC control component placement. That is I
        put the devices in the center of the area they cover. In this way I keep the
        wiring as short as possible. There is at least one duplex outlet on each
        wall of each room in my home.

        I have added to each duplex outlet a remote control power device and a wall
        outlet extender.

        The outlet extender is a 6 outlet wall adapter which can easily handle two
        wall warts and four normal power cords. This device (Powtech PT-7825) cost
        me only $3.00 at the local flea market.

        The remove control power device is used to turn on/off power to the layout.
        The remote control receiver is plugged into the duplex wall outlet and the 6
        outlet adapter is plugged into the remote control receiver. The remote
        control receiver uses only one outlet of the duplex outlet thus I still have
        outlets available should in need to have power for other equipment like a
        soldering iron or a lamp when I am working under the layout. The remote
        control equipment was manufactured by Byebye Standby (model BBSBUS3P). I
        paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $25.00 each for three starter kits two
        used in the train room and one spare just in case. Each starter kit came
        with one controller and two receivers.Each receiver has 12 different
        possible codes and each controller has the ability to control three
        different remotes. I have programmed three of my receivers with one code and
        the fourth with a second code. I can turn the entire layout on/off with a
        single controller. The remote is Velcro mounted on the door frame to the
        train room.

        All of the equipment mentioned above is UL listed

        Al Silverstein

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "D. L. Turnock" <the_crusher@...>
        To: "Wiring For DCC" <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 8:28 PM
        Subject: [WiringForDCC] Room Wiring


        Good Evening,

        I have a new question concerning room wiring to support DCC.

        My plans are to have 4 levels (2 staging) around the walls with
        approximately 4 boosters – 1 per level. I run N Scale and I do not plan to
        run sound, but each booster will be 7 amps (EASY DCC). The household
        circuit wiring is 120VAC/15A.

        Therefore, It would appear that I would need to add an additional circuit
        (or 2) for the layout room. There is always turnout turnout power,
        signalling, lighting, etc.

        Has anyone else had to add household circuits for their layout as they add
        more boosters? I guess the other question is whether this is difficult? I
        am mechanically inclined, but 220VAC, fuse boxes, and the like scare the
        crap out of me. I should mention that I blew the whole house offline trying
        to splice in a lighting circuit

        Thanks,

        Dave T
      • Glenn
        Be aware that in some localities they are putting seals on electrical panels to insure that only authorized persons open the box. These seals are not physical,
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 10, 2012
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          Be aware that in some localities they are putting seals on electrical panels
          to insure that only authorized persons open the box.

          These seals are not physical, they do not hold the cover on, but are a
          non-removable label that must be cut.

          These are located some place on the edge of the panel box on the cover and
          the side of the box. In some locations they use a foil seal over one of the
          screws.

          Glenn

          -----Original Message-----
          On Behalf Of Zak, Charles

          I wired in a new 20 amp line and use 12/2 wire, a new breaker in a box is
          fairly simple and I have done several but if you have had trouble in the
          past I would suggest calling a professional it will be worth the money and
          piece of mind.
        • wirefordcc
          Dave, Carl gave you the answer - that you do not need a circuit to power your 28A of boosters. I thought a little more explanation would be helpful. The
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 10, 2012
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            Dave,

            Carl gave you the answer - that you do not need a circuit to power your 28A of boosters. I thought a little more explanation would be helpful.

            The reason you don't need to add a circuit to your home is because the transformer that powers your boosters, not only changes the voltage out, it also changes the amount of current in. You only need to allow for about 1.5A in per powered booster. You can allow 2A for margin. So your four boosters will only draw about 8A total IF ALL YOUR BOOSTERS ARE PROVIDING MAXIMUM OUTPUT AT THE SAME TIME.

            I emphasize mamximum because chances are, unless you have an extremely busy railroad running lots of engines simultaneously, you will probably only be drawing a few amps total from all your boosters - making the current necessary from your house wiring will probably be less than 2A.

            If you do decide to add a circuit so that you can turn on/off your whole layout at once, get an electrician if electricity is not your thing.

            Allan
            Wiring For DCC
            Wiring For DCC

            --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "D. L. Turnock" <the_crusher@...> wrote:
            >
            > Good Evening,
            >
            > I have a new question concerning room wiring to support DCC.
            >
            > My plans are to have 4 levels (2 staging) around the walls with approximately 4 boosters â€" 1 per level. I run N Scale and I do not plan to run sound, but each booster will be 7 amps (EASY DCC). The household circuit wiring is 120VAC/15A.
            >
            > Therefore, It would appear that I would need to add an additional circuit (or 2) for the layout room. There is always turnout turnout power, signalling, lighting, etc.
            >
            > Has anyone else had to add household circuits for their layout as they add more boosters? I guess the other question is whether this is difficult? I am mechanically inclined, but 220VAC, fuse boxes, and the like scare the crap out of me. I should mention that I blew the whole house offline trying to splice in a lighting circuit
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Dave T
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Max Maginness
            Much more important is adequate provision for lighting. I don’t know the proposed area of the layout but start with a guess at 5 watts/square foot - so a
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 10, 2012
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              Much more important is adequate provision for lighting. I don’t know the proposed area of the layout but start with a guess at 5 watts/square foot - so a 20’ by 20’ layout might need 400x5 = 2000 watts available – say 2, 15 amp circuits.

              This is just a guess – it depends on how bright you want the illumination but much higher than typical in general living areas is recommended - and what type of lights you use, fluorescent, halogen, LED or some mix.



              Max



              From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wirefordcc
              Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:57 AM
              To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Room Wiring





              Dave,

              Carl gave you the answer - that you do not need a circuit to power your 28A of boosters. I thought a little more explanation would be helpful.

              The reason you don't need to add a circuit to your home is because the transformer that powers your boosters, not only changes the voltage out, it also changes the amount of current in. You only need to allow for about 1.5A in per powered booster. You can allow 2A for margin. So your four boosters will only draw about 8A total IF ALL YOUR BOOSTERS ARE PROVIDING MAXIMUM OUTPUT AT THE SAME TIME.

              I emphasize mamximum because chances are, unless you have an extremely busy railroad running lots of engines simultaneously, you will probably only be drawing a few amps total from all your boosters - making the current necessary from your house wiring will probably be less than 2A.

              If you do decide to add a circuit so that you can turn on/off your whole layout at once, get an electrician if electricity is not your thing.

              Allan
              Wiring For DCC
              Wiring For DCC

              --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> , "D. L. Turnock" <the_crusher@...> wrote:
              >
              > Good Evening,
              >
              > I have a new question concerning room wiring to support DCC.
              >
              > My plans are to have 4 levels (2 staging) around the walls with approximately 4 boosters â€" 1 per level. I run N Scale and I do not plan to run sound, but each booster will be 7 amps (EASY DCC). The household circuit wiring is 120VAC/15A.
              >
              > Therefore, It would appear that I would need to add an additional circuit (or 2) for the layout room. There is always turnout turnout power, signalling, lighting, etc.
              >
              > Has anyone else had to add household circuits for their layout as they add more boosters? I guess the other question is whether this is difficult? I am mechanically inclined, but 220VAC, fuse boxes, and the like scare the crap out of me. I should mention that I blew the whole house offline trying to splice in a lighting circuit
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Dave T
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • D. L. Turnock
              Good Morning, Thanks for the replies. The consensus is that 4 boosters at 7 Amps and 12 volts is 384 watts – which is easily handled by standard household
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 11, 2012
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                Good Morning,
                Thanks for the replies.
                The consensus is that 4 boosters at 7 Amps and 12 volts is 384 watts – which is easily handled by standard household wiring,
                I had forgotten that part of EE201
                However, as other comments came in, it does appear that it would be helpful to have:
                1. One or more additional circuits for lighting – which can eat up the 120V/15Amps of a standard household circuit pretty quickly.
                2. Wire in the layout circuit to a “room off” switch
                3. If uncomfortable working with new circuits, hire a professional.
                Thanks for the help. As I progress, I am sure I’ll have some more questions.
                Thanks,
                Dave T

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Vollrath, Don
                An alternative to having an electrician wiring up a special wall switch to control multiple wall outlets for the train equipment would be to use remote control
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 11, 2012
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                  An alternative to having an electrician wiring up a special wall switch to control multiple wall outlets for the train equipment would be to use remote control gadgets like those offered by X10. See http://www.x10-store.com/ With a simple 'key fob', press one button and multiple 'appliance' modules will turn on or off.
                  DonV

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of D. L. Turnock
                  Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:45 AM
                  To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Room Wiring

                  Good Morning,
                  Thanks for the replies.
                  The consensus is that 4 boosters at 7 Amps and 12 volts is 384 watts – which is easily handled by standard household wiring,
                  I had forgotten that part of EE201
                  However, as other comments came in, it does appear that it would be helpful to have:
                  1. One or more additional circuits for lighting – which can eat up the 120V/15Amps of a standard household circuit pretty quickly.
                  2. Wire in the layout circuit to a “room off” switch
                  3. If uncomfortable working with new circuits, hire a professional.
                  Thanks for the help. As I progress, I am sure I’ll have some more questions.
                  Thanks,
                  Dave T

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links
                • Glenn
                  Please do not put the Room Off switch near the normal room lights. Other people not in the know will be flicking the switch on and off trying to figure out
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 11, 2012
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                    Please do not put the "Room Off" switch near the normal room lights. Other
                    people not in the know will be flicking the switch on and off trying to
                    figure out what it goes to.

                    Glenn
                  • Glenn
                    I got something like that from Home Depot ($20) and Wal-Mart ($15). It was in the Christmas department intended for lights, displays, etc.. There is a remote
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 11, 2012
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                      I got something like that from Home Depot ($20) and Wal-Mart ($15). It was
                      in the Christmas department intended for lights, displays, etc.. There is a
                      remote that controls three individual plug in modules. The remote has on0off
                      buttons for each module.

                      Mine is marked Channel "F". I presume you can have more that one set as long
                      as it is on a different channel.

                      The modules are three wire and rated at 13A. The remote is about the size of
                      a Twinkie.

                      Glenn

                      -----Original Message-----
                      On Behalf Of Vollrath, Don

                      Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Room Wiring

                      An alternative to having an electrician wiring up a special wall switch to
                      control multiple wall outlets for the train equipment would be to use remote
                      control gadgets like those offered by X10. See http://www.x10-store.com/
                      With a simple 'key fob', press one button and multiple 'appliance' modules
                      will turn on or off.
                      DonV
                    • Paul
                      Dave,   If you are uncomfortable wiring a new circuit in your electric  box, then you should hire an electrician. In addition to your own safety, if not done
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 14, 2012
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                        Dave,
                         
                        If you are uncomfortable wiring a new circuit in your electric  box, then you should hire an electrician. In addition to your own safety, if not done properly bad wiring could result in a fire. If it doesn't meet code, the insurance company could deny a claim.
                         
                        Paul

                        Live Simply, Laugh Often


                        ________________________________
                        From: D. L. Turnock <the_crusher@...>
                        To: Wiring For DCC <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 8:28 PM
                        Subject: [WiringForDCC] Room Wiring

                        Good Evening,

                        I have a new question concerning room wiring to support DCC.

                        My plans are to have 4 levels (2 staging) around the walls with approximately 4 boosters – 1 per level.  I run N Scale and I do not plan to run sound,  but each booster will be 7 amps (EASY DCC).  The household circuit wiring is 120VAC/15A.

                        Therefore,  It would appear that I would need to add an additional circuit (or 2) for the layout room.  There is always turnout turnout power, signalling, lighting,  etc.

                        Has anyone else had to add household circuits for their layout as they add more boosters?  I guess the other question is whether this is difficult?  I am mechanically inclined,  but 220VAC, fuse boxes, and the like scare the crap out of me.  I should mention that I blew the whole house offline trying to splice in a lighting circuit

                        Thanks,

                        Dave T





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        ------------------------------------

                        http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Doug Stuard
                        As voltage is stepped up, Amps are stepped down, but Watts (Volts x Amps) are basically constant. Assuming your DCC track voltage (for N scale) is roughly 12
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 16, 2012
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                          As voltage is stepped up, Amps are stepped down, but Watts (Volts x Amps) are basically constant.

                          Assuming your DCC track voltage (for N scale) is roughly 12 Volts, total power that can be delivered from 4 7 Amp boosters would be 4 x 12 x 7 = 336 watts. At 120 VAC from the wall outlet, this translate to 336/120 = 2.8 Amps, well within the capacity of the typical 15 Amp house circuit. Save the electrician bill and buy more trains!

                          (Note that the 336 Watt figure would be absolute peak maximum, all boosters running at max load simultaneously - an unlikely event. The average load would more likely be in the 150 Watts or less range...allowing you to buy even more trains!).

                          Doug Stuard

                          --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, Paul <summermanva@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dave,
                          >  
                          > If you are uncomfortable wiring a new circuit in your electric  box, then you should hire an electrician. In addition to your own safety, if not done properly bad wiring could result in a fire. If it doesn't meet code, the insurance company could deny a claim.
                          >  
                          > Paul
                          >
                          > Live Simply, Laugh Often
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: D. L. Turnock <the_crusher@...>
                          > To: Wiring For DCC <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 8:28 PM
                          > Subject: [WiringForDCC] Room Wiring
                          >
                          > Good Evening,
                          >
                          > I have a new question concerning room wiring to support DCC.
                          >
                          > My plans are to have 4 levels (2 staging) around the walls with approximately 4 boosters â€" 1 per level.  I run N Scale and I do not plan to run sound,  but each booster will be 7 amps (EASY DCC).  The household circuit wiring is 120VAC/15A.
                          >
                          > Therefore,  It would appear that I would need to add an additional circuit (or 2) for the layout room.  There is always turnout turnout power, signalling, lighting,  etc.
                          >
                          > Has anyone else had to add household circuits for their layout as they add more boosters?  I guess the other question is whether this is difficult?  I am mechanically inclined,  but 220VAC, fuse boxes, and the like scare the crap out of me.  I should mention that I blew the whole house offline trying to splice in a lighting circuit
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          >
                          > Dave T
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • dcesharkman@yahoo.com
                          Well done Doug I was about to say the same thing. Always calculate using power not adding up amps or volts and getting a false result. And also what is true,
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 16, 2012
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                            Well done Doug

                            I was about to say the same thing. Always calculate using power not adding up amps or volts and getting a false result.

                            And also what is true, the boosters will only supply what is demanded by the trains and other power consumers on the layout.

                            There is no real need for a separate circuit in this case.

                            Respectfully,

                            David C. Eaton
                            Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: "Doug Stuard" <dstuard@...>
                            Sender: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:01:55
                            To: <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>
                            Reply-To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Room Wiring

                            As voltage is stepped up, Amps are stepped down, but Watts (Volts x Amps) are basically constant.

                            Assuming your DCC track voltage (for N scale) is roughly 12 Volts, total power that can be delivered from 4 7 Amp boosters would be 4 x 12 x 7 = 336 watts. At 120 VAC from the wall outlet, this translate to 336/120 = 2.8 Amps, well within the capacity of the typical 15 Amp house circuit. Save the electrician bill and buy more trains!

                            (Note that the 336 Watt figure would be absolute peak maximum, all boosters running at max load simultaneously - an unlikely event. The average load would more likely be in the 150 Watts or less range...allowing you to buy even more trains!).

                            Doug Stuard

                            --- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, Paul <summermanva@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dave,
                            > ��
                            > If you are uncomfortable wiring a new circuit in your electric�� box, then you should hire an electrician. In addition to your own safety, if not done properly bad wiring could result in a fire. If it doesn't meet code, the insurance company could deny a claim.
                            > ��
                            > Paul
                            >
                            > Live Simply, Laugh Often
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: D. L. Turnock <the_crusher@...>
                            > To: Wiring For DCC <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 8:28 PM
                            > Subject: [WiringForDCC] Room Wiring
                            >
                            > Good Evening,
                            >
                            > I have a new question concerning room wiring to support DCC.
                            >
                            > My plans are to have 4 levels (2 staging) around the walls with approximately 4 boosters ��" 1 per level.�� I run N Scale and I do not plan to run sound,�� but each booster will be 7 amps (EASY DCC).�� The household circuit wiring is 120VAC/15A.
                            >
                            > Therefore,�� It would appear that I would need to add an additional circuit (or 2) for the layout room.�� There is always turnout turnout power, signalling, lighting,�� etc.
                            >
                            > Has anyone else had to add household circuits for their layout as they add more boosters?�� I guess the other question is whether this is difficult?�� I am mechanically inclined,�� but 220VAC, fuse boxes, and the like scare the crap out of me.�� I should mention that I blew the whole house offline trying to splice in a lighting circuit
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            > Dave T
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >





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