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Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal light path

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  • Moravianus@yahoo.com
    I would like to find out, what is the optical path length of this diagonal and what is the length of the piece you insert into focuser tube. Thanks for help.
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 9, 2001
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      I would like to find out, what is the optical path length of this
      diagonal and what is the length of the piece you insert into focuser tube.

      Thanks for help.

      David
    • Dan and Carol
      Yeah it does! The focuser is really sweet too! I just got my cable for connecting the ss2k to my STV! Tomorrow nite I finally get to put the whole thing
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 9, 2001
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        Yeah it does! The focuser is really sweet too! I just got my cable for
        connecting the ss2k to my STV! Tomorrow nite I finally get to put the whole
        thing together for the first time! If all works good I'll finally be able
        to shoot some film. Buen cielo, Dan
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Don Wyman <dwyman@...>
        To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Thursday, August 09, 2001 9:16 AM
        Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal


        >--- In William-Optics@y..., "Dan and Carol" <poziovahim@l...> wrote:
        >> Yeah, I have the Televue also but now I mostly use the WO! Them
        >side pieces
        >> are like,like Mags man! You know? I mean, Que No! Bueno, Dan NM
        >
        >
        >Heh, yeah. The whole WO line catches your eye. That Meg 80 looks sweet
        >too. Of course when you buy the Meg 80 that 2" enhanced diagonal comes
        >with it right?
        >
        >Don
        >
        >
        >
        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >William-Optics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
      • Markus Ludes
        Hi kent, your infos are not completed. A 99% coating decrease the wave surface area on full surface,it makes an high edge, but the center remains perfect, and
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 10, 2001
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          Hi kent,

          your infos are not completed.

          A 99% coating decrease the wave surface area on full surface,it makes an
          high edge, but the center remains perfect, and only the cente ris used by
          high powers.The edge which is not such good is used only by low powers.
          A 96% coating does not decrease at all any of the surface, if right made

          best wishes

          Markus
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Kent Gittings" <kent@...>
          To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:10 PM
          Subject: RE: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal


          > That's actually good. The dielectric coatings severely degrade the wave
          > front error in the TV and AP diagonals. While it may make them last longer
          > and makes them brighter, a mirror that starts out as good as 1/25 wave
          will
          > end up around 1/6 or so once the entire dielectric layer stack is layered
          > on. Any small imperfection in the thickness of a layer gets magnified the
          > more layers you put on top of it. I think Vernonscope actually
          experimented
          > with this several years ago and decided against using a dielectric coating
          > because it severely compromised the surface error on the final product.
          And
          > they were using 1/40 wave mirrors also.
          > One reason the TV and AP diagonals appear so good is that they are very
          > careful about aligning the mirrors to be as perfectly on axis as possible.
          > This will make them appear much better than the average one that maybe off
          > slightly. Try setting up a set of optics (SCT/Mak )with as perfect an
          > alignment as you can get with a laser collimator. Then stick every
          diagonal
          > you can get in there with the laser on it and you'd be surprised how many
          > you have access to that may be off alignment (or may have machining errors
          > in the tubes). Even good ones. One of the best aligned diagonals is the
          > Celestron prism diagonal that comes with the scopes. And most guys switch
          to
          > a mirror because it's "better" early on. I've seen so many cases where
          I've
          > had them tell me about problems that I often ask if they still have the
          > original one and then in just about every case I find that the mirror
          > diagonal they replaced it with has an alignment problem. My recommendation
          > is to test every one you are going to buy as even a small alignment error
          > will make the focal plane twisted slightly and reduce performance.
          > Kent Gittings
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Ray York [mailto:ray@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 1:02 AM
          > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
          >
          >
          > Just for clarification, the WO diagonal is NOT dielectrically coated like
          > the TV and AP diagonals are.
          >
          > Ray York
          > Anacortes Telescope and Wild Bird
          > http://www.BuyTelescopes.com/
          > http://www.AstroMart.com/
          > (800) 850-2001
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Don Wyman [mailto:dwyman@...]
          > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 8:35 PM
          > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
          >
          > --- In William-Optics@y..., "Dan and Carol" <poziovahim@l...> wrote:
          > > Hey Don! I have the one that came with the Megrez 80 and Its a
          > beaut! I
          > > like the silver side plates rather than the black too! Bueno, Dan
          >
          > Thanks Dan. With all the talk about enhanced mirror diagonals like the
          > TV Everbrite and the AP version, it's nice to see one that doesn't
          > cost an arm and a leg.
          >
          > Don
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > William-Optics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > William-Optics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          >
          >
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        • Kent Gittings
          I was just simplifying it a little Markus. Remember most of the people using this stuff are using the 2 dielectric coated diagonals to use with medium and
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 10, 2001
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            I was just simplifying it a little Markus. Remember most of the people using
            this stuff are using the 2" dielectric coated diagonals to use with medium
            and high power wide field eyepieces from Nagler, Pentax, etc., so they might
            actually suffer a little.
            Kent Gittings

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Markus Ludes [mailto:apm_telescopes@...]
            Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 5:39 AM
            To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal


            Hi kent,

            your infos are not completed.

            A 99% coating decrease the wave surface area on full surface,it makes an
            high edge, but the center remains perfect, and only the cente ris used by
            high powers.The edge which is not such good is used only by low powers.
            A 96% coating does not decrease at all any of the surface, if right made

            best wishes

            Markus
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Kent Gittings" <kent@...>
            To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:10 PM
            Subject: RE: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal


            > That's actually good. The dielectric coatings severely degrade the wave
            > front error in the TV and AP diagonals. While it may make them last longer
            > and makes them brighter, a mirror that starts out as good as 1/25 wave
            will
            > end up around 1/6 or so once the entire dielectric layer stack is layered
            > on. Any small imperfection in the thickness of a layer gets magnified the
            > more layers you put on top of it. I think Vernonscope actually
            experimented
            > with this several years ago and decided against using a dielectric coating
            > because it severely compromised the surface error on the final product.
            And
            > they were using 1/40 wave mirrors also.
            > One reason the TV and AP diagonals appear so good is that they are very
            > careful about aligning the mirrors to be as perfectly on axis as possible.
            > This will make them appear much better than the average one that maybe off
            > slightly. Try setting up a set of optics (SCT/Mak )with as perfect an
            > alignment as you can get with a laser collimator. Then stick every
            diagonal
            > you can get in there with the laser on it and you'd be surprised how many
            > you have access to that may be off alignment (or may have machining errors
            > in the tubes). Even good ones. One of the best aligned diagonals is the
            > Celestron prism diagonal that comes with the scopes. And most guys switch
            to
            > a mirror because it's "better" early on. I've seen so many cases where
            I've
            > had them tell me about problems that I often ask if they still have the
            > original one and then in just about every case I find that the mirror
            > diagonal they replaced it with has an alignment problem. My recommendation
            > is to test every one you are going to buy as even a small alignment error
            > will make the focal plane twisted slightly and reduce performance.
            > Kent Gittings
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Ray York [mailto:ray@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 1:02 AM
            > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
            >
            >
            > Just for clarification, the WO diagonal is NOT dielectrically coated like
            > the TV and AP diagonals are.
            >
            > Ray York
            > Anacortes Telescope and Wild Bird
            > http://www.BuyTelescopes.com/
            > http://www.AstroMart.com/
            > (800) 850-2001
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Don Wyman [mailto:dwyman@...]
            > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 8:35 PM
            > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
            >
            > --- In William-Optics@y..., "Dan and Carol" <poziovahim@l...> wrote:
            > > Hey Don! I have the one that came with the Megrez 80 and Its a
            > beaut! I
            > > like the silver side plates rather than the black too! Bueno, Dan
            >
            > Thanks Dan. With all the talk about enhanced mirror diagonals like the
            > TV Everbrite and the AP version, it's nice to see one that doesn't
            > cost an arm and a leg.
            >
            > Don
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > William-Optics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > William-Optics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            > **********************************************************************
            > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
            > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
            > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
            > the system manager.
            >
            > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
            > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
            >
            > www.mimesweeper.com
            > **********************************************************************
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > William-Optics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >



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            William-Optics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com




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            **********************************************************************
            This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
            intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
            are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
            the system manager.

            This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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          • dwyman
            Shoot some film? They still make that stuff? . Don
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 10, 2001
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              Shoot some film? They still make that stuff? <G>.

              Don
            • Moravianus@yahoo.com
              How much could a dielectric diagonal influence the picture if one uses e.g. the new WO 30mm 82 deg. EP with a 102 F7 scope, i.e. a combination of a fast
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 10, 2001
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                How much could a dielectric diagonal influence the picture if
                one uses e.g. the new WO 30mm 82 deg. EP with a 102 F7
                scope, i.e. a combination of a fast scope, low magnification ?

                David

                --- In William-Optics@y..., "Kent Gittings" <kent@i...> wrote:
                > I was just simplifying it a little Markus. Remember most of the
                people using
                > this stuff are using the 2" dielectric coated diagonals to use
                with medium
                > and high power wide field eyepieces from Nagler, Pentax, etc.,
                so they might
                > actually suffer a little.
                > Kent Gittings
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Markus Ludes [mailto:apm_telescopes@w...]
                > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 5:39 AM
                > To: William-Optics@y...
                > Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
                >
                >
                > Hi kent,
                >
                > your infos are not completed.
                >
                > A 99% coating decrease the wave surface area on full
                surface,it makes an
                > high edge, but the center remains perfect, and only the cente
                ris used by
                > high powers.The edge which is not such good is used only by
                low powers.
                > A 96% coating does not decrease at all any of the surface, if
                right made
                >
                > best wishes
                >
                > Markus
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Kent Gittings" <kent@i...>
                > To: <William-Optics@y...>
                > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:10 PM
                > Subject: RE: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
                >
                >
                > > That's actually good. The dielectric coatings severely
                degrade the wave
                > > front error in the TV and AP diagonals. While it may make
                them last longer
                > > and makes them brighter, a mirror that starts out as good as
                1/25 wave
                > will
                > > end up around 1/6 or so once the entire dielectric layer stack
                is layered
                > > on. Any small imperfection in the thickness of a layer gets
                magnified the
                > > more layers you put on top of it. I think Vernonscope actually
                > experimented
                > > with this several years ago and decided against using a
                dielectric coating
                > > because it severely compromised the surface error on the
                final product.
                > And
                > > they were using 1/40 wave mirrors also.
                > > One reason the TV and AP diagonals appear so good is that
                they are very
                > > careful about aligning the mirrors to be as perfectly on axis
                as possible.
                > > This will make them appear much better than the average
                one that maybe off
                > > slightly. Try setting up a set of optics (SCT/Mak )with as
                perfect an
                > > alignment as you can get with a laser collimator. Then stick
                every
                > diagonal
                > > you can get in there with the laser on it and you'd be
                surprised how many
                > > you have access to that may be off alignment (or may have
                machining errors
                > > in the tubes). Even good ones. One of the best aligned
                diagonals is the
                > > Celestron prism diagonal that comes with the scopes. And
                most guys switch
                > to
                > > a mirror because it's "better" early on. I've seen so many
                cases where
                > I've
                > > had them tell me about problems that I often ask if they still
                have the
                > > original one and then in just about every case I find that the
                mirror
                > > diagonal they replaced it with has an alignment problem. My
                recommendation
                > > is to test every one you are going to buy as even a small
                alignment error
                > > will make the focal plane twisted slightly and reduce
                performance.
                > > Kent Gittings
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Ray York [mailto:ray@b...]
                > > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 1:02 AM
                > > To: William-Optics@y...
                > > Subject: RE: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
                > >
                > >
                > > Just for clarification, the WO diagonal is NOT dielectrically
                coated like
                > > the TV and AP diagonals are.
                > >
                > >
              • Dan and Carol
                The last time I shot any was Ectachrome slide on Halley s comet with my old orange C-8. I had it mounted on one of the first ever GoTo s by Celestron. I think
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 10, 2001
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                  The last time I shot any was Ectachrome slide on Halley's comet with my old
                  orange C-8. I had it mounted on one of the first ever GoTo's by Celestron.
                  I think it was called the Genesis w/Great Polaris mount. I had an 11x80
                  finder from University Optics, I think, that set up was sweet. After the
                  great Halley disappointment, I sold it all and got into Radio Control
                  aircraft until 1996. Then I happened to be in a bookstore and just paged
                  thru an Astronomy Magazine and got turned on by all the neat new stuff, sold
                  all my RC stuff and bought the Meade LX 50 10". At least this stuff don't
                  crash and burn and make a grown man weep! Buen cielo, Dan NM
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: dwyman <dwyman@...>
                  To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Friday, August 10, 2001 7:42 AM
                  Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal


                  >Shoot some film? They still make that stuff? <G>.
                  >
                  >Don
                  >
                  >
                  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >William-Optics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                • Kent Gittings
                  Haven t tried it myself as I have a 152 F9 refractor. I ve played with Brandon 30mm Wide field, Pentax 28mm XL, KK 30mm Wide Scan II and a couple of others
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 13, 2001
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                    Haven't tried it myself as I have a 152 F9 refractor. I've played with
                    Brandon 30mm Wide field, Pentax 28mm XL, KK 30mm Wide Scan II and a couple
                    of others using either an Everbright or an Intes 1/15 wave diagonal. With my
                    54 year old eyes I couldn't tell that much difference. Did try it with a
                    0.63x field flattener/focal reducer at F5.7 and with the extra elements in
                    the path the Everbright could have appeared a little brighter but no extra
                    detail was really visible. So I tend to favor highly corrected and aligned
                    diagonals which can be had under $200 instead of higher reflective coatings
                    and possibly lower over all correction. Still mirror alignment in star
                    diagonals appears to be the most common problem I've seen that prevents good
                    observation.
                    Kent Gittings

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Moravianus@... [mailto:Moravianus@...]
                    Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 4:59 PM
                    To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Dielectric diag. problems was: Wm-Optics
                    2" Diagonal


                    How much could a dielectric diagonal influence the picture if
                    one uses e.g. the new WO 30mm 82 deg. EP with a 102 F7
                    scope, i.e. a combination of a fast scope, low magnification ?

                    David

                    --- In William-Optics@y..., "Kent Gittings" <kent@i...> wrote:
                    > I was just simplifying it a little Markus. Remember most of the
                    people using
                    > this stuff are using the 2" dielectric coated diagonals to use
                    with medium
                    > and high power wide field eyepieces from Nagler, Pentax, etc.,
                    so they might
                    > actually suffer a little.
                    > Kent Gittings
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Markus Ludes [mailto:apm_telescopes@w...]
                    > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 5:39 AM
                    > To: William-Optics@y...
                    > Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi kent,
                    >
                    > your infos are not completed.
                    >
                    > A 99% coating decrease the wave surface area on full
                    surface,it makes an
                    > high edge, but the center remains perfect, and only the cente
                    ris used by
                    > high powers.The edge which is not such good is used only by
                    low powers.
                    > A 96% coating does not decrease at all any of the surface, if
                    right made
                    >
                    > best wishes
                    >
                    > Markus
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Kent Gittings" <kent@i...>
                    > To: <William-Optics@y...>
                    > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:10 PM
                    > Subject: RE: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
                    >
                    >
                    > > That's actually good. The dielectric coatings severely
                    degrade the wave
                    > > front error in the TV and AP diagonals. While it may make
                    them last longer
                    > > and makes them brighter, a mirror that starts out as good as
                    1/25 wave
                    > will
                    > > end up around 1/6 or so once the entire dielectric layer stack
                    is layered
                    > > on. Any small imperfection in the thickness of a layer gets
                    magnified the
                    > > more layers you put on top of it. I think Vernonscope actually
                    > experimented
                    > > with this several years ago and decided against using a
                    dielectric coating
                    > > because it severely compromised the surface error on the
                    final product.
                    > And
                    > > they were using 1/40 wave mirrors also.
                    > > One reason the TV and AP diagonals appear so good is that
                    they are very
                    > > careful about aligning the mirrors to be as perfectly on axis
                    as possible.
                    > > This will make them appear much better than the average
                    one that maybe off
                    > > slightly. Try setting up a set of optics (SCT/Mak )with as
                    perfect an
                    > > alignment as you can get with a laser collimator. Then stick
                    every
                    > diagonal
                    > > you can get in there with the laser on it and you'd be
                    surprised how many
                    > > you have access to that may be off alignment (or may have
                    machining errors
                    > > in the tubes). Even good ones. One of the best aligned
                    diagonals is the
                    > > Celestron prism diagonal that comes with the scopes. And
                    most guys switch
                    > to
                    > > a mirror because it's "better" early on. I've seen so many
                    cases where
                    > I've
                    > > had them tell me about problems that I often ask if they still
                    have the
                    > > original one and then in just about every case I find that the
                    mirror
                    > > diagonal they replaced it with has an alignment problem. My
                    recommendation
                    > > is to test every one you are going to buy as even a small
                    alignment error
                    > > will make the focal plane twisted slightly and reduce
                    performance.
                    > > Kent Gittings
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Ray York [mailto:ray@b...]
                    > > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 1:02 AM
                    > > To: William-Optics@y...
                    > > Subject: RE: [William-Optics] Re: Wm-Optics 2" Diagonal
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Just for clarification, the WO diagonal is NOT dielectrically
                    coated like
                    > > the TV and AP diagonals are.
                    > >
                    > >



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                    **********************************************************************
                    This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
                    intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
                    are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
                    the system manager.

                    This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
                    MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.

                    www.mimesweeper.com
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