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Re: Megrez vs. ZenithStar Family

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  • Timm Bottoni
    Oops - another typo Should be $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine with the specs, but as
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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      Oops - another typo

      Should be
      $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO

      And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine with
      the specs, but as to why one is better, I will leave that to you
      folks who are more experienced.

      Timm

      --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
      <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Daniel,
      >
      > Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here, good
      > morning for you :)
      >
      > Here is a simple listing...
      >
      > I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
      > Second - how much do you have to spend?
      > Third - how much aperture do you want
      > Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from
      users
      > who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)
      >
      > APO scopes
      > Price Model
      > $3295 Fluoristar 110
      > $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
      > $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
      > $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special price)
      > $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
      > $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
      > $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
      > $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
      > $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
      > $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite
      >
      > NOT APO scopes
      > $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
      > $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
      > $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
      > $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
      > $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
      > $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
      > $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
      > $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA
      >
      > I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
      > analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
      > straight forward.
      >
      > Hope it helps!
      >
      > Timm
      >
      >
    • michelderomme
      Well What are we talking about ? SD APO, ED APO, fluorite APO, fluorite doublet ... CA F2, FPL53 or others ? are red and blue waves focused at the same point ?
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 30, 2005
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        Well
        What are we talking about ?
        SD APO, ED APO, fluorite APO, fluorite doublet ...
        CA F2, FPL53 or others ?
        are red and blue waves focused at the same point ?
        TMB use ED, TAk use fluorite, AP uses ED, Skywatcher use ED(FPL53
        indeed), WO use DE, ED, fluorite, are some better than others ? why ?
        Michel
        Membre SAPL 87
        http://www.astrosurf.com/deromme/accueil.htm
        PROTEGEONS NOTRE ENVIRONNEMENT NOCTURNE !!!
        ADHEREZ A L'ANPCN
        Commandez les nouveaux autocollants ANPCN !
        http://www.astrosurf.com/anpcn/

        --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
        <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
        >
        > Oops - another typo
        >
        > Should be
        > $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO
        >
        > And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine
        with
        > the specs, but as to why one is better, I will leave that to you
        > folks who are more experienced.
        >
        > Timm
        >
        > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
        > <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Daniel,
        > >
        > > Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here,
        good
        > > morning for you :)
        > >
        > > Here is a simple listing...
        > >
        > > I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
        > > Second - how much do you have to spend?
        > > Third - how much aperture do you want
        > > Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from
        > users
        > > who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)
        > >
        > > APO scopes
        > > Price Model
        > > $3295 Fluoristar 110
        > > $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
        > > $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
        > > $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special price)
        > > $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
        > > $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
        > > $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
        > > $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
        > > $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
        > > $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite
        > >
        > > NOT APO scopes
        > > $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
        > > $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
        > > $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
        > > $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
        > > $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
        > > $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
        > > $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
        > > $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA
        > >
        > > I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
        > > analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
        > > straight forward.
        > >
        > > Hope it helps!
        > >
        > > Timm
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Tom Trusock
        Hi Michel, There have already been some wonderful comments in this thread - if you read back, they will probably go a long way towards answering some if not
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 30, 2005
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          Hi Michel,

          There have already been some wonderful comments in this thread - if
          you read back, they will probably go a long way towards answering
          some if not all of your questions, but I'll throw in my .02 cents
          here as well.

          ED and SD are generally considered to be two different names for the
          same family of glasses. I think it was Nikon coined the term ED -
          prompting Canon to counter with SD. Both were marketing terms that
          described glasses with extra, special or supra dispersion properties
          as measured by their abbe number. ED is more typically used today,
          but there's nothing inherently incorrect about SD.

          ED/SD glasses can cover a wide range, but for today's astronomical
          applications usually consist of glasses with similar properties to
          those found in Ohara's catalog under the designations s-fpl51, s-
          fpl52 and s-fpl53 (more often referred to as FPL51, 52 and 53). For
          the record, from it's abbe number there is minimal diffference
          between fluorite and fpl53. I've been given to understand that pure
          fluorite does have a small advantage in that it has a slightly
          higher transmission and lower scatter in certain wavelengths than
          fpl-53, but the advantages are mainly photographic, and not all that
          great. Equally important to the choice of the ED/SD glass is the
          choice of a good mate.

          Everyone talks about color correction, but the sheer fact of the
          matter is there really are other things that are just if not more
          important depending on the application you have in mind. I suspect
          everyone picks on color correction because it's easy to see.

          In any case, the design of the lens and the glasses used are
          paramount in determining correction, however, many other factors
          come into play as well. Typically the best doublets are not as well
          corrected as the best corrected triplets - however, doublets are
          lighter, cool down faster, and have a few other advantages as well
          (largely to the visual observer). Triplets, OTOH, are generally
          preferred for photographic applications.

          As I see it, the major difference between the ZenithStar and Megrez
          family have more to do with the OTA than the lenses. Outside of the
          FLT-100 (which is a different beast entirely) the Megrez scopes are
          white with a painted or powercoated finish, and use a foam baffle
          system. They have a more traditional look to them. The Zenithstars
          tend to be anodized and use a cone baffle system. The anodizing
          looks extremely sharp, but has a single drawback - it picks up
          fingerprints like crazy.

          I've seen samples of both lines, and both do their job well. Which
          you prefer is entirely up to you.

          As per the 66 doublet / triplet / petzval discussion - well, as a
          visual observer, I tend to prefer doublets. In general, a good
          ED/SD doublet is smaller, lighter (and thus easier to mount), and
          still offers acceptable color correction. I haven't seen the 66 SD
          doublet yet, but I'm lucky enough to have the fluorite version (a
          very limited production). Assuming the SD version performs like the
          fluorite version, I'd recommend the SD doublet for the visual
          observer. The triplet generally offers better color correction for
          those who are really picky about that or who are photographers.
          Petzvals are an excellent choice for someone who is on a slightly
          more restriced budget. The petzval gives about 30-35% less false
          color than a similar size achro simply due to it's design. While I
          wouldn't recommend it for typical photography due to it's color
          correction, it would do very well for narrow band applications.

          Hope something here helps.

          Tom T.

          --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "michelderomme"
          <michel.deromme@f...> wrote:
          >
          > Well
          > What are we talking about ?
          > SD APO, ED APO, fluorite APO, fluorite doublet ...
          > CA F2, FPL53 or others ?
          > are red and blue waves focused at the same point ?
          > TMB use ED, TAk use fluorite, AP uses ED, Skywatcher use ED(FPL53
          > indeed), WO use DE, ED, fluorite, are some better than others ?
          why ?
          > Michel
          > Membre SAPL 87
          > http://www.astrosurf.com/deromme/accueil.htm
          > PROTEGEONS NOTRE ENVIRONNEMENT NOCTURNE !!!
          > ADHEREZ A L'ANPCN
          > Commandez les nouveaux autocollants ANPCN !
          > http://www.astrosurf.com/anpcn/
          >
          > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
          > <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Oops - another typo
          > >
          > > Should be
          > > $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO
          > >
          > > And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine
          > with
          > > the specs, but as to why one is better, I will leave that to you
          > > folks who are more experienced.
          > >
          > > Timm
          > >
          > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
          > > <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Daniel,
          > > >
          > > > Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here,
          > good
          > > > morning for you :)
          > > >
          > > > Here is a simple listing...
          > > >
          > > > I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
          > > > Second - how much do you have to spend?
          > > > Third - how much aperture do you want
          > > > Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from
          > > users
          > > > who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)
          > > >
          > > > APO scopes
          > > > Price Model
          > > > $3295 Fluoristar 110
          > > > $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
          > > > $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
          > > > $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special
          price)
          > > > $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
          > > > $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
          > > > $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
          > > > $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
          > > > $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
          > > > $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite
          > > >
          > > > NOT APO scopes
          > > > $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
          > > > $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
          > > > $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
          > > > $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
          > > > $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
          > > > $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
          > > > $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
          > > > $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA
          > > >
          > > > I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
          > > > analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
          > > > straight forward.
          > > >
          > > > Hope it helps!
          > > >
          > > > Timm
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Tom Trusock
          Just so there s no confusion, I should make it clear that my comments about the petzval design were in reference to the 66 currently offered. Other petzvals
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 30, 2005
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            Just so there's no confusion, I should make it clear that my comments
            about the petzval design were in reference to the 66 currently
            offered. Other petzvals (even perhaps those on tap at WO) can have
            better color correction than nearly any other style of telescope.
            (The NP101 is an excellent example of best of a breed apochromatic
            petzval.) Like any other design however, they have their own benefits
            and limitations.

            T
          • fccolosimo
            Hi Tom, You mentioned it briefly as a whole different story but can you comment on the FLT 110 as the best choice for wide field astrophotography? I was
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 4, 2006
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              Hi Tom,
              You mentioned it briefly as 'a whole different story' but can you
              comment on the FLT 110 as the best choice for wide field
              astrophotography? I was able to play around with an 102mm f/5 achro
              and found the wide field of view to be very exciting. The relatively
              poor color correction resulted in poor color results but the images
              shot through a green filter were great. I have decided to get a better
              scope largely for CCD work, and it seems that the Petval design
              produces nice wide views. However, I mainly want to make sure that I
              get good color correction and good resolution - small stars with
              no 'bloat' are important to me. The FLT 110, the Tak FSQ and and the
              TV NP101 are all candidates at present and somehow I have to get my
              choice down to the best one...

              Thanks!

              Frank




              --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Trusock" <tomt@c...> wrote:
              >
              > Just so there's no confusion, I should make it clear that my comments
              > about the petzval design were in reference to the 66 currently
              > offered. Other petzvals (even perhaps those on tap at WO) can have
              > better color correction than nearly any other style of telescope.
              > (The NP101 is an excellent example of best of a breed apochromatic
              > petzval.) Like any other design however, they have their own benefits
              > and limitations.
              >
              > T
              >
            • Tom Trusock
              ... achro ... relatively ... images ... better ... that I ... the ... my ... Hi Frank, I really can t comment a whole lot on the astrophotography side. About
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 4, 2006
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                --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "fccolosimo" <fcc0@h...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hi Tom,
                > You mentioned it briefly as 'a whole different story' but can you
                > comment on the FLT 110 as the best choice for wide field
                > astrophotography? I was able to play around with an 102mm f/5
                achro
                > and found the wide field of view to be very exciting. The
                relatively
                > poor color correction resulted in poor color results but the
                images
                > shot through a green filter were great. I have decided to get a
                better
                > scope largely for CCD work, and it seems that the Petval design
                > produces nice wide views. However, I mainly want to make sure
                that I
                > get good color correction and good resolution - small stars with
                > no 'bloat' are important to me. The FLT 110, the Tak FSQ and and
                the
                > TV NP101 are all candidates at present and somehow I have to get
                my
                > choice down to the best one...
                >
                > Thanks!
                >
                > Frank
                >
                >

                Hi Frank, I really can't comment a whole lot on the astrophotography
                side. About all I can say is that take a look at images of all
                three with your camera of choice, and then talk to the
                photographers. An astrophotographically inclined friend purchased
                the FLT I had for review - about all I can tell you is that that
                last I knew, he was very happy with it.

                T
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