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Re: Megrez vs. ZenithStar Family

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  • Chris Schroeder
    Let me take a stab at this, remember this is just my opinion and it s worth exactly what you paid for it ;^) My comments will be after each of your questions
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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      Let me take a stab at this, remember this is just my opinion and
      it's worth exactly what you paid for it ;^) My comments will be
      after each of your questions below


      --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, hypergut <no_reply@y...>
      wrote:
      >
      > To All:
      >
      > Having been smitten with the ZSSD 66 APO, I am looking at more
      > "refractor" APO aperture for my future, i.e., 80mm or greater.
      >
      > Can anyone clearly outline the advantages and qualities of the
      various
      > members of these two design groups, Megrez vs. ZenithStar Family,
      > e.g., is one design better for imaging versus visual use? Physical
      > properties (other than weight)? Mechanical differences? Optical
      > advantages?

      I believe they are just different styles with pretty much equal
      performance mechanically

      >
      > The Megrez 80mm FD is it a fluorite achromat, semi-apo or apo?
      > The other members are apochromats, correct?

      APO

      >
      > What advantage has the Megrez fluorite Triplet Apo over the Megrez
      > 80mm IIED Apo? What advantage has any 80mm Megrez design over the
      new
      > 80mm ZenithStar 80mm fluorite doublet (the so-called red
      temptress).

      Better color correction of the Flourite Triplet over both 80IIED and
      80APO

      > Is the 80mm ZSFD an apo?

      Yes

      >
      > Unrelated to my past or future purchases, but maybe helpful to
      others,
      > why would someone choose the ZS66 Petzval Semi-Apo ED or the ZS66
      > Triplet ED-Apo versions over the ZSSD 66 Apo?

      Petzval is a semi-APO, but because of it's design, it has a very
      flat field which is great for Astrophotography. The triplet should
      have the best color correct of the three. The SD APO is a doublet,
      which gives it a litter weight and quicker cooling over a triplet
      but still have good color correction.

      Clear as mud now? Hope this helps Robert, Chris

      >
      > Curious Minds Want to Know!
      >
      > Robert in Hershey
      >
      > P.S. as you can see, I now own cadioptrics, refractors and a big
      newt:
      > 18" f4.5 Obsession, Galaxy/AN (with ZSSD 66mm Apo superfinder)
      > 8" f10 Meade LX90 SCT
      > 5" f10 Intes-Micro Mak-Cas
      > 4.7" f6 Orion Astroview 120ST Achro
      >
    • williamopticsmarketing
      Chris, the future is beyond me!! ;-) Wait and see! ... beginning ... out,
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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        Chris, the future is beyond me!! ;-)

        Wait and see!



        --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Schroeder"
        <chris_jsa@y...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "williamopticsmarketing"
        > <williamopticsmarketing@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > ZenithStar FD and Megrez FD both share the same APO optics, only
        > > difference is the tube.
        > > ZS FD is in its second and last batch (this is the famour
        > Anniversary
        > > scope), preordering before the end of 2005 guarantees the
        > promotional
        > > price of US$ 799.
        > > If there is any left in Jan. (and I am being honest, I am
        beginning
        > > to doubt it) price will be US$ 848, same as the Megrez version.
        > >
        >
        > So if I'm reading this correctly, after the Anniv model is sold
        out,
        > the only 80mm APO scopes will be the megrez line?
        >
        > Chris
        >
      • Timm Bottoni
        Oops - another typo Should be $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine with the specs, but as
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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          Oops - another typo

          Should be
          $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO

          And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine with
          the specs, but as to why one is better, I will leave that to you
          folks who are more experienced.

          Timm

          --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
          <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Daniel,
          >
          > Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here, good
          > morning for you :)
          >
          > Here is a simple listing...
          >
          > I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
          > Second - how much do you have to spend?
          > Third - how much aperture do you want
          > Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from
          users
          > who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)
          >
          > APO scopes
          > Price Model
          > $3295 Fluoristar 110
          > $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
          > $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
          > $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special price)
          > $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
          > $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
          > $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
          > $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
          > $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
          > $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite
          >
          > NOT APO scopes
          > $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
          > $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
          > $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
          > $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
          > $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
          > $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
          > $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
          > $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA
          >
          > I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
          > analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
          > straight forward.
          >
          > Hope it helps!
          >
          > Timm
          >
          >
        • michelderomme
          Well What are we talking about ? SD APO, ED APO, fluorite APO, fluorite doublet ... CA F2, FPL53 or others ? are red and blue waves focused at the same point ?
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 30, 2005
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            Well
            What are we talking about ?
            SD APO, ED APO, fluorite APO, fluorite doublet ...
            CA F2, FPL53 or others ?
            are red and blue waves focused at the same point ?
            TMB use ED, TAk use fluorite, AP uses ED, Skywatcher use ED(FPL53
            indeed), WO use DE, ED, fluorite, are some better than others ? why ?
            Michel
            Membre SAPL 87
            http://www.astrosurf.com/deromme/accueil.htm
            PROTEGEONS NOTRE ENVIRONNEMENT NOCTURNE !!!
            ADHEREZ A L'ANPCN
            Commandez les nouveaux autocollants ANPCN !
            http://www.astrosurf.com/anpcn/

            --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
            <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
            >
            > Oops - another typo
            >
            > Should be
            > $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO
            >
            > And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine
            with
            > the specs, but as to why one is better, I will leave that to you
            > folks who are more experienced.
            >
            > Timm
            >
            > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
            > <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Daniel,
            > >
            > > Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here,
            good
            > > morning for you :)
            > >
            > > Here is a simple listing...
            > >
            > > I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
            > > Second - how much do you have to spend?
            > > Third - how much aperture do you want
            > > Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from
            > users
            > > who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)
            > >
            > > APO scopes
            > > Price Model
            > > $3295 Fluoristar 110
            > > $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
            > > $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
            > > $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special price)
            > > $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
            > > $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
            > > $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
            > > $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
            > > $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
            > > $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite
            > >
            > > NOT APO scopes
            > > $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
            > > $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
            > > $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
            > > $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
            > > $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
            > > $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
            > > $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
            > > $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA
            > >
            > > I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
            > > analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
            > > straight forward.
            > >
            > > Hope it helps!
            > >
            > > Timm
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Tom Trusock
            Hi Michel, There have already been some wonderful comments in this thread - if you read back, they will probably go a long way towards answering some if not
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 30, 2005
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              Hi Michel,

              There have already been some wonderful comments in this thread - if
              you read back, they will probably go a long way towards answering
              some if not all of your questions, but I'll throw in my .02 cents
              here as well.

              ED and SD are generally considered to be two different names for the
              same family of glasses. I think it was Nikon coined the term ED -
              prompting Canon to counter with SD. Both were marketing terms that
              described glasses with extra, special or supra dispersion properties
              as measured by their abbe number. ED is more typically used today,
              but there's nothing inherently incorrect about SD.

              ED/SD glasses can cover a wide range, but for today's astronomical
              applications usually consist of glasses with similar properties to
              those found in Ohara's catalog under the designations s-fpl51, s-
              fpl52 and s-fpl53 (more often referred to as FPL51, 52 and 53). For
              the record, from it's abbe number there is minimal diffference
              between fluorite and fpl53. I've been given to understand that pure
              fluorite does have a small advantage in that it has a slightly
              higher transmission and lower scatter in certain wavelengths than
              fpl-53, but the advantages are mainly photographic, and not all that
              great. Equally important to the choice of the ED/SD glass is the
              choice of a good mate.

              Everyone talks about color correction, but the sheer fact of the
              matter is there really are other things that are just if not more
              important depending on the application you have in mind. I suspect
              everyone picks on color correction because it's easy to see.

              In any case, the design of the lens and the glasses used are
              paramount in determining correction, however, many other factors
              come into play as well. Typically the best doublets are not as well
              corrected as the best corrected triplets - however, doublets are
              lighter, cool down faster, and have a few other advantages as well
              (largely to the visual observer). Triplets, OTOH, are generally
              preferred for photographic applications.

              As I see it, the major difference between the ZenithStar and Megrez
              family have more to do with the OTA than the lenses. Outside of the
              FLT-100 (which is a different beast entirely) the Megrez scopes are
              white with a painted or powercoated finish, and use a foam baffle
              system. They have a more traditional look to them. The Zenithstars
              tend to be anodized and use a cone baffle system. The anodizing
              looks extremely sharp, but has a single drawback - it picks up
              fingerprints like crazy.

              I've seen samples of both lines, and both do their job well. Which
              you prefer is entirely up to you.

              As per the 66 doublet / triplet / petzval discussion - well, as a
              visual observer, I tend to prefer doublets. In general, a good
              ED/SD doublet is smaller, lighter (and thus easier to mount), and
              still offers acceptable color correction. I haven't seen the 66 SD
              doublet yet, but I'm lucky enough to have the fluorite version (a
              very limited production). Assuming the SD version performs like the
              fluorite version, I'd recommend the SD doublet for the visual
              observer. The triplet generally offers better color correction for
              those who are really picky about that or who are photographers.
              Petzvals are an excellent choice for someone who is on a slightly
              more restriced budget. The petzval gives about 30-35% less false
              color than a similar size achro simply due to it's design. While I
              wouldn't recommend it for typical photography due to it's color
              correction, it would do very well for narrow band applications.

              Hope something here helps.

              Tom T.

              --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "michelderomme"
              <michel.deromme@f...> wrote:
              >
              > Well
              > What are we talking about ?
              > SD APO, ED APO, fluorite APO, fluorite doublet ...
              > CA F2, FPL53 or others ?
              > are red and blue waves focused at the same point ?
              > TMB use ED, TAk use fluorite, AP uses ED, Skywatcher use ED(FPL53
              > indeed), WO use DE, ED, fluorite, are some better than others ?
              why ?
              > Michel
              > Membre SAPL 87
              > http://www.astrosurf.com/deromme/accueil.htm
              > PROTEGEONS NOTRE ENVIRONNEMENT NOCTURNE !!!
              > ADHEREZ A L'ANPCN
              > Commandez les nouveaux autocollants ANPCN !
              > http://www.astrosurf.com/anpcn/
              >
              > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
              > <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Oops - another typo
              > >
              > > Should be
              > > $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO
              > >
              > > And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine
              > with
              > > the specs, but as to why one is better, I will leave that to you
              > > folks who are more experienced.
              > >
              > > Timm
              > >
              > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
              > > <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi Daniel,
              > > >
              > > > Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here,
              > good
              > > > morning for you :)
              > > >
              > > > Here is a simple listing...
              > > >
              > > > I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
              > > > Second - how much do you have to spend?
              > > > Third - how much aperture do you want
              > > > Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from
              > > users
              > > > who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)
              > > >
              > > > APO scopes
              > > > Price Model
              > > > $3295 Fluoristar 110
              > > > $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
              > > > $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
              > > > $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special
              price)
              > > > $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
              > > > $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
              > > > $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
              > > > $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
              > > > $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
              > > > $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite
              > > >
              > > > NOT APO scopes
              > > > $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
              > > > $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
              > > > $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
              > > > $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
              > > > $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
              > > > $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
              > > > $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
              > > > $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA
              > > >
              > > > I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
              > > > analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
              > > > straight forward.
              > > >
              > > > Hope it helps!
              > > >
              > > > Timm
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Tom Trusock
              Just so there s no confusion, I should make it clear that my comments about the petzval design were in reference to the 66 currently offered. Other petzvals
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 30, 2005
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                Just so there's no confusion, I should make it clear that my comments
                about the petzval design were in reference to the 66 currently
                offered. Other petzvals (even perhaps those on tap at WO) can have
                better color correction than nearly any other style of telescope.
                (The NP101 is an excellent example of best of a breed apochromatic
                petzval.) Like any other design however, they have their own benefits
                and limitations.

                T
              • fccolosimo
                Hi Tom, You mentioned it briefly as a whole different story but can you comment on the FLT 110 as the best choice for wide field astrophotography? I was
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 4, 2006
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                  Hi Tom,
                  You mentioned it briefly as 'a whole different story' but can you
                  comment on the FLT 110 as the best choice for wide field
                  astrophotography? I was able to play around with an 102mm f/5 achro
                  and found the wide field of view to be very exciting. The relatively
                  poor color correction resulted in poor color results but the images
                  shot through a green filter were great. I have decided to get a better
                  scope largely for CCD work, and it seems that the Petval design
                  produces nice wide views. However, I mainly want to make sure that I
                  get good color correction and good resolution - small stars with
                  no 'bloat' are important to me. The FLT 110, the Tak FSQ and and the
                  TV NP101 are all candidates at present and somehow I have to get my
                  choice down to the best one...

                  Thanks!

                  Frank




                  --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Trusock" <tomt@c...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Just so there's no confusion, I should make it clear that my comments
                  > about the petzval design were in reference to the 66 currently
                  > offered. Other petzvals (even perhaps those on tap at WO) can have
                  > better color correction than nearly any other style of telescope.
                  > (The NP101 is an excellent example of best of a breed apochromatic
                  > petzval.) Like any other design however, they have their own benefits
                  > and limitations.
                  >
                  > T
                  >
                • Tom Trusock
                  ... achro ... relatively ... images ... better ... that I ... the ... my ... Hi Frank, I really can t comment a whole lot on the astrophotography side. About
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 4, 2006
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                    --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "fccolosimo" <fcc0@h...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Tom,
                    > You mentioned it briefly as 'a whole different story' but can you
                    > comment on the FLT 110 as the best choice for wide field
                    > astrophotography? I was able to play around with an 102mm f/5
                    achro
                    > and found the wide field of view to be very exciting. The
                    relatively
                    > poor color correction resulted in poor color results but the
                    images
                    > shot through a green filter were great. I have decided to get a
                    better
                    > scope largely for CCD work, and it seems that the Petval design
                    > produces nice wide views. However, I mainly want to make sure
                    that I
                    > get good color correction and good resolution - small stars with
                    > no 'bloat' are important to me. The FLT 110, the Tak FSQ and and
                    the
                    > TV NP101 are all candidates at present and somehow I have to get
                    my
                    > choice down to the best one...
                    >
                    > Thanks!
                    >
                    > Frank
                    >
                    >

                    Hi Frank, I really can't comment a whole lot on the astrophotography
                    side. About all I can say is that take a look at images of all
                    three with your camera of choice, and then talk to the
                    photographers. An astrophotographically inclined friend purchased
                    the FLT I had for review - about all I can tell you is that that
                    last I knew, he was very happy with it.

                    T
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