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Re: Megrez vs. ZenithStar Family

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  • Timm Bottoni
    Oops - I meant to say that in my opinion I think the mechanics ARE the same quality in both lines. Dang, I wish you could edit posts when you say the wrong
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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      Oops - I meant to say that in my opinion I think the mechanics ARE
      the same quality in both lines. Dang, I wish you could edit posts
      when you say the wrong thing but don't catch it until you read it
      later.

      Timm


      --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
      <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > My honest opinion is that the Megrez line is painted white with
      gold
      > trim, only 80mm, has been around longer, and has 3 options -
      Doublet
      > Flourite, same optics as the Zenithstar Fluorite Doublet that was
      red
      > and is out of stock, has an ED triple, and has a Fluorite Triplet.
      >
      > The ZenithStar line is newer, and seems like its the way WO is
      > moving, but I have no inside knowledge of this, so its just my
      > impression since WO has brought out a number of new ZS models this
      > year. Its black (or red) anodized rather than painted, and has
      three
      > sizes 66mm, 80mm, and 105mm. It also offers an 80mm semi-apo, an
      > 80mm short, and 66mm semi-apo Petzval 4 element lens design. In
      the
      > APO line, they have a 80mm doublet fluorite (red anniv model), a 66
      > SD doublet, a 66mm ED triplet, and a 105mm ED triplet.
      >
      > But this information is really all on the WO web site, and I am not
      > anywhere near enough of an expert on optics (not even close!) to
      tell
      > you which optical design you should go with, doublet, triplet, ED,
      > SD, or Fluorite. There are lots of sites out there that will argue
      > one way over the other, depending on whether you want it for visual
      > vs. photo use.
      >
      > It looks to me like WO is moving all models towards a 2-speed
      > microfocuser, and I honestly don't think that mechanics are the
      same
      > between lines.
      >
      > I would say first choose your price point and aperture - 66, 80,
      105
      > (or 110 Fluoristar which is different design completely) and then
      see
      > what you like.
      >
      > I don't think its any more complicated than that, so I would say
      just
      > read the reviews that are out there, and base your decision on how
      > much aperture you want, and how much you can spend.
      >
      > And I am working on the FAQs, but its honestly more about answering
      > specific questions that keep poppig up, than a comparison grid,
      > because that is just too hard to maintain by me.
      >
      > Its a good idea for the WO site though! I could build one thats a
      > snapshot of the scopes that are offered today if its any help. All
      > the specs are already there on the WO site, so if that would help I
      > would be happy to create an Excel sheet that could be turned into
      an
      > HTML page easily and posted. Anyone interested?
      >
      > Timm
      >
      >
    • williamopticsmarketing
      Hello Gentlemen, at the moment (I will stick to 80mm) we have 3 ZenithStar and 3 Megrez on the market. The ZenithStar are the achromat ZS80 and ZS80Short (only
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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        Hello Gentlemen,

        at the moment (I will stick to 80mm) we have 3 ZenithStar and 3
        Megrez on the market.

        The ZenithStar are the achromat ZS80 and ZS80Short (only shorter for
        binoviewing), and the ZenithStar Fluorite Doublet APO (the
        anniversary scope). The first two are a cemented doublet, the APO is
        an air spaced doublet designed by Thomas Back (TMB).

        The Megrez on the market right now are the Megrez Fluorite Doublet
        APO (same optics as the ZSFD), a Megrez Triplet ED APO, and the
        Megrez Triplet Fluorite APO (once more optics designed by TMB).

        For more info on each single scope, please refer to the following
        resurces:

        1/Other members in this group, also in the form of previous messages.
        You can use the search function to find what you are looking for.
        Most topics have been covered here already

        2/ Our website. You can see what people said about their scopes in
        the feedback section. Check also the links to external reviews. There
        are some photos taken with each scope, for some scopes we do not have
        many pics up yet. Remember that the pics represent first of all the
        photographer (we use our gallery to show our users' work not to show
        off only the best photos...)


        3/ Check out other online forums such as Cloudynights, Astromart,
        etc. You can find a full list here:
        http://www.william-optics.com/wowebs/links/discussion.htm


        I hope this helps for a start!

        4/ If you have specific questions which are still unaswered, please
        contact us at wo@... or support@...


        --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "starsearcheffort3"
        <william001@f...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, hypergut <no_reply@y...>
        wrote:
        > >
        > > To All:
        > >
        > > Having been smitten with the ZSSD 66 APO, I am looking at more
        > > "refractor" APO aperture for my future, i.e., 80mm or greater.
        > >
        > > Can anyone clearly outline the advantages and qualities of the
        various
        > > members of these two design groups, Megrez vs. ZenithStar Family,
        > > e.g., is one design better for imaging versus visual use? Physical
        > > properties (other than weight)? Mechanical differences? Optical
        > > advantages?
        > >
        > > The Megrez 80mm FD is it a fluorite achromat, semi-apo or apo?
        > > The other members are apochromats, correct?
        > >
        > > What advantage has the Megrez fluorite Triplet Apo over the Megrez
        > > 80mm IIED Apo? What advantage has any 80mm Megrez design over the
        new
        > > 80mm ZenithStar 80mm fluorite doublet (the so-called red
        temptress).
        > > Is the 80mm ZSFD an apo?
        > >
        > > Unrelated to my past or future purchases, but maybe helpful to
        others,
        > > why would someone choose the ZS66 Petzval Semi-Apo ED or the ZS66
        > > Triplet ED-Apo versions over the ZSSD 66 Apo?
        > >
        > > Curious Minds Want to Know!
        > >
        > > Robert in Hershey
        > >
        > > P.S. as you can see, I now own cadioptrics, refractors and a big
        newt:
        > > 18" f4.5 Obsession, Galaxy/AN (with ZSSD 66mm Apo superfinder)
        > > 8" f10 Meade LX90 SCT
        > > 5" f10 Intes-Micro Mak-Cas
        > > 4.7" f6 Orion Astroview 120ST Achro
        > >
        >
        >
        > Robert,
        > Good question.
        >
        > I asked it here a week or so ago, what are the differences between
        the
        > Megrez "family" and the Zenithstar "family?"
        >
        > Answer: nobody knows.
        >
        > A FAQ is being considered but until that time your guess is as good
        > as mine.
        >
        > But why would a web site want to make clear the differences between
        > its two main product lines?
        >
        > And who would expect a users' group to know a recodite thing like
        that?
        > Clear skies,
        > Bill Meyers
        >
      • Timm Bottoni
        Hi Daniel, Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here, good morning for you :) Here is a simple listing... I would suggest you decide first
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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          Hi Daniel,

          Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here, good
          morning for you :)

          Here is a simple listing...

          I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
          Second - how much do you have to spend?
          Third - how much aperture do you want
          Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from users
          who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)

          APO scopes
          Price Model
          $3295 Fluoristar 110
          $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
          $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
          $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special price)
          $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
          $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
          $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
          $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
          $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
          $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite

          NOT APO scopes
          $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
          $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
          $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
          $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
          $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
          $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
          $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
          $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA

          I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
          analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
          straight forward.

          Hope it helps!

          Timm


          --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "williamopticsmarketing"
          <williamopticsmarketing@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Gentlemen,
          >
          > at the moment (I will stick to 80mm) we have 3 ZenithStar and 3
          > Megrez on the market.
          >
          > The ZenithStar are the achromat ZS80 and ZS80Short (only shorter
          for
          > binoviewing), and the ZenithStar Fluorite Doublet APO (the
          > anniversary scope). The first two are a cemented doublet, the APO
          is
          > an air spaced doublet designed by Thomas Back (TMB).
          >
          > The Megrez on the market right now are the Megrez Fluorite Doublet
          > APO (same optics as the ZSFD), a Megrez Triplet ED APO, and the
          > Megrez Triplet Fluorite APO (once more optics designed by TMB).
          >
          > For more info on each single scope, please refer to the following
          > resurces:
          >
          > 1/Other members in this group, also in the form of previous
          messages.
          > You can use the search function to find what you are looking for.
          > Most topics have been covered here already
          >
          > 2/ Our website. You can see what people said about their scopes in
          > the feedback section. Check also the links to external reviews.
          There
          > are some photos taken with each scope, for some scopes we do not
          have
          > many pics up yet. Remember that the pics represent first of all the
          > photographer (we use our gallery to show our users' work not to
          show
          > off only the best photos...)
          >
          >
          > 3/ Check out other online forums such as Cloudynights, Astromart,
          > etc. You can find a full list here:
          > http://www.william-optics.com/wowebs/links/discussion.htm
          >
          >
          > I hope this helps for a start!
          >
          > 4/ If you have specific questions which are still unaswered, please
          > contact us at wo@w... or support@w...
          >
          >
          > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "starsearcheffort3"
          > <william001@f...> wrote:
          > >
          > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, hypergut <no_reply@y...>
          > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > To All:
          > > >
          > > > Having been smitten with the ZSSD 66 APO, I am looking at more
          > > > "refractor" APO aperture for my future, i.e., 80mm or greater.
          > > >
          > > > Can anyone clearly outline the advantages and qualities of the
          > various
          > > > members of these two design groups, Megrez vs. ZenithStar
          Family,
          > > > e.g., is one design better for imaging versus visual use?
          Physical
          > > > properties (other than weight)? Mechanical differences? Optical
          > > > advantages?
          > > >
          > > > The Megrez 80mm FD is it a fluorite achromat, semi-apo or apo?
          > > > The other members are apochromats, correct?
          > > >
          > > > What advantage has the Megrez fluorite Triplet Apo over the
          Megrez
          > > > 80mm IIED Apo? What advantage has any 80mm Megrez design over
          the
          > new
          > > > 80mm ZenithStar 80mm fluorite doublet (the so-called red
          > temptress).
          > > > Is the 80mm ZSFD an apo?
          > > >
          > > > Unrelated to my past or future purchases, but maybe helpful to
          > others,
          > > > why would someone choose the ZS66 Petzval Semi-Apo ED or the
          ZS66
          > > > Triplet ED-Apo versions over the ZSSD 66 Apo?
          > > >
          > > > Curious Minds Want to Know!
          > > >
          > > > Robert in Hershey
          > > >
          > > > P.S. as you can see, I now own cadioptrics, refractors and a
          big
          > newt:
          > > > 18" f4.5 Obsession, Galaxy/AN (with ZSSD 66mm Apo superfinder)
          > > > 8" f10 Meade LX90 SCT
          > > > 5" f10 Intes-Micro Mak-Cas
          > > > 4.7" f6 Orion Astroview 120ST Achro
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Robert,
          > > Good question.
          > >
          > > I asked it here a week or so ago, what are the differences
          between
          > the
          > > Megrez "family" and the Zenithstar "family?"
          > >
          > > Answer: nobody knows.
          > >
          > > A FAQ is being considered but until that time your guess is as
          good
          > > as mine.
          > >
          > > But why would a web site want to make clear the differences
          between
          > > its two main product lines?
          > >
          > > And who would expect a users' group to know a recodite thing like
          > that?
          > > Clear skies,
          > > Bill Meyers
          > >
          >
        • Chris Schroeder
          ... Anniversary ... promotional ... So if I m reading this correctly, after the Anniv model is sold out, the only 80mm APO scopes will be the megrez line?
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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            --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "williamopticsmarketing"
            <williamopticsmarketing@y...> wrote:
            >
            > ZenithStar FD and Megrez FD both share the same APO optics, only
            > difference is the tube.
            > ZS FD is in its second and last batch (this is the famour
            Anniversary
            > scope), preordering before the end of 2005 guarantees the
            promotional
            > price of US$ 799.
            > If there is any left in Jan. (and I am being honest, I am beginning
            > to doubt it) price will be US$ 848, same as the Megrez version.
            >

            So if I'm reading this correctly, after the Anniv model is sold out,
            the only 80mm APO scopes will be the megrez line?

            Chris
          • Chris Schroeder
            Let me take a stab at this, remember this is just my opinion and it s worth exactly what you paid for it ;^) My comments will be after each of your questions
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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              Let me take a stab at this, remember this is just my opinion and
              it's worth exactly what you paid for it ;^) My comments will be
              after each of your questions below


              --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, hypergut <no_reply@y...>
              wrote:
              >
              > To All:
              >
              > Having been smitten with the ZSSD 66 APO, I am looking at more
              > "refractor" APO aperture for my future, i.e., 80mm or greater.
              >
              > Can anyone clearly outline the advantages and qualities of the
              various
              > members of these two design groups, Megrez vs. ZenithStar Family,
              > e.g., is one design better for imaging versus visual use? Physical
              > properties (other than weight)? Mechanical differences? Optical
              > advantages?

              I believe they are just different styles with pretty much equal
              performance mechanically

              >
              > The Megrez 80mm FD is it a fluorite achromat, semi-apo or apo?
              > The other members are apochromats, correct?

              APO

              >
              > What advantage has the Megrez fluorite Triplet Apo over the Megrez
              > 80mm IIED Apo? What advantage has any 80mm Megrez design over the
              new
              > 80mm ZenithStar 80mm fluorite doublet (the so-called red
              temptress).

              Better color correction of the Flourite Triplet over both 80IIED and
              80APO

              > Is the 80mm ZSFD an apo?

              Yes

              >
              > Unrelated to my past or future purchases, but maybe helpful to
              others,
              > why would someone choose the ZS66 Petzval Semi-Apo ED or the ZS66
              > Triplet ED-Apo versions over the ZSSD 66 Apo?

              Petzval is a semi-APO, but because of it's design, it has a very
              flat field which is great for Astrophotography. The triplet should
              have the best color correct of the three. The SD APO is a doublet,
              which gives it a litter weight and quicker cooling over a triplet
              but still have good color correction.

              Clear as mud now? Hope this helps Robert, Chris

              >
              > Curious Minds Want to Know!
              >
              > Robert in Hershey
              >
              > P.S. as you can see, I now own cadioptrics, refractors and a big
              newt:
              > 18" f4.5 Obsession, Galaxy/AN (with ZSSD 66mm Apo superfinder)
              > 8" f10 Meade LX90 SCT
              > 5" f10 Intes-Micro Mak-Cas
              > 4.7" f6 Orion Astroview 120ST Achro
              >
            • williamopticsmarketing
              Chris, the future is beyond me!! ;-) Wait and see! ... beginning ... out,
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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                Chris, the future is beyond me!! ;-)

                Wait and see!



                --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Schroeder"
                <chris_jsa@y...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "williamopticsmarketing"
                > <williamopticsmarketing@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > ZenithStar FD and Megrez FD both share the same APO optics, only
                > > difference is the tube.
                > > ZS FD is in its second and last batch (this is the famour
                > Anniversary
                > > scope), preordering before the end of 2005 guarantees the
                > promotional
                > > price of US$ 799.
                > > If there is any left in Jan. (and I am being honest, I am
                beginning
                > > to doubt it) price will be US$ 848, same as the Megrez version.
                > >
                >
                > So if I'm reading this correctly, after the Anniv model is sold
                out,
                > the only 80mm APO scopes will be the megrez line?
                >
                > Chris
                >
              • Timm Bottoni
                Oops - another typo Should be $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine with the specs, but as
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 29, 2005
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                  Oops - another typo

                  Should be
                  $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO

                  And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine with
                  the specs, but as to why one is better, I will leave that to you
                  folks who are more experienced.

                  Timm

                  --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
                  <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Daniel,
                  >
                  > Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here, good
                  > morning for you :)
                  >
                  > Here is a simple listing...
                  >
                  > I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
                  > Second - how much do you have to spend?
                  > Third - how much aperture do you want
                  > Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from
                  users
                  > who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)
                  >
                  > APO scopes
                  > Price Model
                  > $3295 Fluoristar 110
                  > $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
                  > $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
                  > $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special price)
                  > $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
                  > $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
                  > $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
                  > $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
                  > $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
                  > $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite
                  >
                  > NOT APO scopes
                  > $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
                  > $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
                  > $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
                  > $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
                  > $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
                  > $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
                  > $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
                  > $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA
                  >
                  > I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
                  > analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
                  > straight forward.
                  >
                  > Hope it helps!
                  >
                  > Timm
                  >
                  >
                • michelderomme
                  Well What are we talking about ? SD APO, ED APO, fluorite APO, fluorite doublet ... CA F2, FPL53 or others ? are red and blue waves focused at the same point ?
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 30, 2005
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                    Well
                    What are we talking about ?
                    SD APO, ED APO, fluorite APO, fluorite doublet ...
                    CA F2, FPL53 or others ?
                    are red and blue waves focused at the same point ?
                    TMB use ED, TAk use fluorite, AP uses ED, Skywatcher use ED(FPL53
                    indeed), WO use DE, ED, fluorite, are some better than others ? why ?
                    Michel
                    Membre SAPL 87
                    http://www.astrosurf.com/deromme/accueil.htm
                    PROTEGEONS NOTRE ENVIRONNEMENT NOCTURNE !!!
                    ADHEREZ A L'ANPCN
                    Commandez les nouveaux autocollants ANPCN !
                    http://www.astrosurf.com/anpcn/

                    --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
                    <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Oops - another typo
                    >
                    > Should be
                    > $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO
                    >
                    > And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine
                    with
                    > the specs, but as to why one is better, I will leave that to you
                    > folks who are more experienced.
                    >
                    > Timm
                    >
                    > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
                    > <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Daniel,
                    > >
                    > > Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here,
                    good
                    > > morning for you :)
                    > >
                    > > Here is a simple listing...
                    > >
                    > > I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
                    > > Second - how much do you have to spend?
                    > > Third - how much aperture do you want
                    > > Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from
                    > users
                    > > who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)
                    > >
                    > > APO scopes
                    > > Price Model
                    > > $3295 Fluoristar 110
                    > > $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
                    > > $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
                    > > $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special price)
                    > > $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
                    > > $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
                    > > $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
                    > > $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
                    > > $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
                    > > $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite
                    > >
                    > > NOT APO scopes
                    > > $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
                    > > $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
                    > > $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
                    > > $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
                    > > $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
                    > > $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
                    > > $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
                    > > $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA
                    > >
                    > > I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
                    > > analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
                    > > straight forward.
                    > >
                    > > Hope it helps!
                    > >
                    > > Timm
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Tom Trusock
                    Hi Michel, There have already been some wonderful comments in this thread - if you read back, they will probably go a long way towards answering some if not
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 30, 2005
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                      Hi Michel,

                      There have already been some wonderful comments in this thread - if
                      you read back, they will probably go a long way towards answering
                      some if not all of your questions, but I'll throw in my .02 cents
                      here as well.

                      ED and SD are generally considered to be two different names for the
                      same family of glasses. I think it was Nikon coined the term ED -
                      prompting Canon to counter with SD. Both were marketing terms that
                      described glasses with extra, special or supra dispersion properties
                      as measured by their abbe number. ED is more typically used today,
                      but there's nothing inherently incorrect about SD.

                      ED/SD glasses can cover a wide range, but for today's astronomical
                      applications usually consist of glasses with similar properties to
                      those found in Ohara's catalog under the designations s-fpl51, s-
                      fpl52 and s-fpl53 (more often referred to as FPL51, 52 and 53). For
                      the record, from it's abbe number there is minimal diffference
                      between fluorite and fpl53. I've been given to understand that pure
                      fluorite does have a small advantage in that it has a slightly
                      higher transmission and lower scatter in certain wavelengths than
                      fpl-53, but the advantages are mainly photographic, and not all that
                      great. Equally important to the choice of the ED/SD glass is the
                      choice of a good mate.

                      Everyone talks about color correction, but the sheer fact of the
                      matter is there really are other things that are just if not more
                      important depending on the application you have in mind. I suspect
                      everyone picks on color correction because it's easy to see.

                      In any case, the design of the lens and the glasses used are
                      paramount in determining correction, however, many other factors
                      come into play as well. Typically the best doublets are not as well
                      corrected as the best corrected triplets - however, doublets are
                      lighter, cool down faster, and have a few other advantages as well
                      (largely to the visual observer). Triplets, OTOH, are generally
                      preferred for photographic applications.

                      As I see it, the major difference between the ZenithStar and Megrez
                      family have more to do with the OTA than the lenses. Outside of the
                      FLT-100 (which is a different beast entirely) the Megrez scopes are
                      white with a painted or powercoated finish, and use a foam baffle
                      system. They have a more traditional look to them. The Zenithstars
                      tend to be anodized and use a cone baffle system. The anodizing
                      looks extremely sharp, but has a single drawback - it picks up
                      fingerprints like crazy.

                      I've seen samples of both lines, and both do their job well. Which
                      you prefer is entirely up to you.

                      As per the 66 doublet / triplet / petzval discussion - well, as a
                      visual observer, I tend to prefer doublets. In general, a good
                      ED/SD doublet is smaller, lighter (and thus easier to mount), and
                      still offers acceptable color correction. I haven't seen the 66 SD
                      doublet yet, but I'm lucky enough to have the fluorite version (a
                      very limited production). Assuming the SD version performs like the
                      fluorite version, I'd recommend the SD doublet for the visual
                      observer. The triplet generally offers better color correction for
                      those who are really picky about that or who are photographers.
                      Petzvals are an excellent choice for someone who is on a slightly
                      more restriced budget. The petzval gives about 30-35% less false
                      color than a similar size achro simply due to it's design. While I
                      wouldn't recommend it for typical photography due to it's color
                      correction, it would do very well for narrow band applications.

                      Hope something here helps.

                      Tom T.

                      --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "michelderomme"
                      <michel.deromme@f...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well
                      > What are we talking about ?
                      > SD APO, ED APO, fluorite APO, fluorite doublet ...
                      > CA F2, FPL53 or others ?
                      > are red and blue waves focused at the same point ?
                      > TMB use ED, TAk use fluorite, AP uses ED, Skywatcher use ED(FPL53
                      > indeed), WO use DE, ED, fluorite, are some better than others ?
                      why ?
                      > Michel
                      > Membre SAPL 87
                      > http://www.astrosurf.com/deromme/accueil.htm
                      > PROTEGEONS NOTRE ENVIRONNEMENT NOCTURNE !!!
                      > ADHEREZ A L'ANPCN
                      > Commandez les nouveaux autocollants ANPCN !
                      > http://www.astrosurf.com/anpcn/
                      >
                      > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
                      > <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Oops - another typo
                      > >
                      > > Should be
                      > > $399 ZenithStar 66 SD Doublet APO
                      > >
                      > > And nice job of explaining the optics choices Chris! I am fine
                      > with
                      > > the specs, but as to why one is better, I will leave that to you
                      > > folks who are more experienced.
                      > >
                      > > Timm
                      > >
                      > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Timm Bottoni"
                      > > <t.bottoni@c...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi Daniel,
                      > > >
                      > > > Looks like you were replying while I was - good evening here,
                      > good
                      > > > morning for you :)
                      > > >
                      > > > Here is a simple listing...
                      > > >
                      > > > I would suggest you decide first - do you want AP0 or not?
                      > > > Second - how much do you have to spend?
                      > > > Third - how much aperture do you want
                      > > > Fourth - doublet, triplet, base your decision on feedback from
                      > > users
                      > > > who have tried both (Like Tom Trusak)
                      > > >
                      > > > APO scopes
                      > > > Price Model
                      > > > $3295 Fluoristar 110
                      > > > $1998 ZenithStar 105 package
                      > > > $1698 ZenithStar 105 OTA
                      > > > $798(sale) ZenithStar 80 Fluorite Doublet (Anniv special
                      price)
                      > > > $399 ZenithStar 80 SD Doublet APO
                      > > > $548 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO 2-speed OTA
                      > > > $498 ZenithStar 66 ED Triplet APO OTA
                      > > > $1595 Megrez 80 Triplet Fluorite APO
                      > > > $928 Megrez 80 Triplet ED APO
                      > > > $848 Megrez 80 Doublet Fluorite
                      > > >
                      > > > NOT APO scopes
                      > > > $399(sale) ZenithStar 80 2-speed OTA plus new year gift
                      > > > $499.95 ZenithStar 80 Package
                      > > > $399.95 ZenithStar 80 Short OTA
                      > > > $499 ZenithStar 80 Short Package (astro or terra)
                      > > > $699(sale) ZenithStar 80 Short BinoViewer package
                      > > > $498 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed astro package
                      > > > $414 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed terra package
                      > > > $348 ZenithStar 66 Petzval 2-speed OTA
                      > > >
                      > > > I know this is a quick breakdown, but this is how my overly
                      > > > analytical mind can assemble it shortly so that its reasonably
                      > > > straight forward.
                      > > >
                      > > > Hope it helps!
                      > > >
                      > > > Timm
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Tom Trusock
                      Just so there s no confusion, I should make it clear that my comments about the petzval design were in reference to the 66 currently offered. Other petzvals
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 30, 2005
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                        Just so there's no confusion, I should make it clear that my comments
                        about the petzval design were in reference to the 66 currently
                        offered. Other petzvals (even perhaps those on tap at WO) can have
                        better color correction than nearly any other style of telescope.
                        (The NP101 is an excellent example of best of a breed apochromatic
                        petzval.) Like any other design however, they have their own benefits
                        and limitations.

                        T
                      • fccolosimo
                        Hi Tom, You mentioned it briefly as a whole different story but can you comment on the FLT 110 as the best choice for wide field astrophotography? I was
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 4, 2006
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                          Hi Tom,
                          You mentioned it briefly as 'a whole different story' but can you
                          comment on the FLT 110 as the best choice for wide field
                          astrophotography? I was able to play around with an 102mm f/5 achro
                          and found the wide field of view to be very exciting. The relatively
                          poor color correction resulted in poor color results but the images
                          shot through a green filter were great. I have decided to get a better
                          scope largely for CCD work, and it seems that the Petval design
                          produces nice wide views. However, I mainly want to make sure that I
                          get good color correction and good resolution - small stars with
                          no 'bloat' are important to me. The FLT 110, the Tak FSQ and and the
                          TV NP101 are all candidates at present and somehow I have to get my
                          choice down to the best one...

                          Thanks!

                          Frank




                          --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Trusock" <tomt@c...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Just so there's no confusion, I should make it clear that my comments
                          > about the petzval design were in reference to the 66 currently
                          > offered. Other petzvals (even perhaps those on tap at WO) can have
                          > better color correction than nearly any other style of telescope.
                          > (The NP101 is an excellent example of best of a breed apochromatic
                          > petzval.) Like any other design however, they have their own benefits
                          > and limitations.
                          >
                          > T
                          >
                        • Tom Trusock
                          ... achro ... relatively ... images ... better ... that I ... the ... my ... Hi Frank, I really can t comment a whole lot on the astrophotography side. About
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 4, 2006
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                            --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "fccolosimo" <fcc0@h...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Tom,
                            > You mentioned it briefly as 'a whole different story' but can you
                            > comment on the FLT 110 as the best choice for wide field
                            > astrophotography? I was able to play around with an 102mm f/5
                            achro
                            > and found the wide field of view to be very exciting. The
                            relatively
                            > poor color correction resulted in poor color results but the
                            images
                            > shot through a green filter were great. I have decided to get a
                            better
                            > scope largely for CCD work, and it seems that the Petval design
                            > produces nice wide views. However, I mainly want to make sure
                            that I
                            > get good color correction and good resolution - small stars with
                            > no 'bloat' are important to me. The FLT 110, the Tak FSQ and and
                            the
                            > TV NP101 are all candidates at present and somehow I have to get
                            my
                            > choice down to the best one...
                            >
                            > Thanks!
                            >
                            > Frank
                            >
                            >

                            Hi Frank, I really can't comment a whole lot on the astrophotography
                            side. About all I can say is that take a look at images of all
                            three with your camera of choice, and then talk to the
                            photographers. An astrophotographically inclined friend purchased
                            the FLT I had for review - about all I can tell you is that that
                            last I knew, he was very happy with it.

                            T
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