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Re: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots

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  • chris provost
    I would have to say these are lens spacers. Chris ... http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c= ... Chris The problems of the
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 3 6:26 AM
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      I would have to say these are lens spacers.

      Chris
      --- Dan <danjanos@...> wrote:

      > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night
      > for some quick images. The images were
      > short exposures since it was a near full moon along
      > with the fact my observatory is not quite
      > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not
      > set up.
      >
      > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics.
      > Visually things look fine but I cannot explain
      > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes
      > every 120 degrees. I did some research and
      > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating
      > optics. Unfortunatley what I have on my
      > images are not discussed in the article. By the
      > process of elimination I can tell what they are
      > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the
      > focus is pretty good I believe that would
      > eliminate any spacers concerns.
      >
      > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the
      > moon and m-45. All the star images are
      > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are
      > located in the photos directory under Danny
      > Janosick test shots flt 132
      >
      >
      http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
      >
      > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to
      > do more thorough evaluations. If anyone
      > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator
      > contact me off list and I will email
      > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
      >
      >


      Chris

      "The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were."-John F. Kennedy



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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      with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
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    • Chris Appleton
      ... wrote: Hi Dan I would not be too concern as of yet, so take your time and test everything throughly. The image due to the photos
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 3 7:39 AM
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        --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, chris provost
        <lineman_16735@...> wrote:

        Hi Dan

        I would not be too concern as of yet, so take your time and test
        everything throughly. The image due to the photos section lower
        resolution it is hard to tell exactly what's going on. Do you have
        your own web site so you can post the images larger?

        When looking at Aldebaran image, the smaller stars seem a little out
        of focus. How did you focus manually or with an electronic focuser?
        What adapters did you use for spacing and did you use a focal
        reducer? If you did use a focal reducer you must make sure you are at
        the correct spacing distance. Did you allow plenty of time for the
        tube to cool down?

        You mentioned that the optics were fine when using for visual (good
        color correction on a very bright star?), so something must be on
        with either the camera or the imaging train?

        If you what you can send the raws to me at denturist89 at sympatico
        dot ca and I would be more then happy to take a good look.

        The weather for me is not co-operating so far and today I am going to
        mount my FLT 132mm on my G11. Hopefully some clear or partially clear
        nights will be coming soon, so I can test out the scope with my ccd
        astro camera.

        Best regards,

        Chris Appleton

        >
        > I would have to say these are lens spacers.
        >
        > Chris
        > --- Dan <danjanos@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night
        > > for some quick images. The images were
        > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along
        > > with the fact my observatory is not quite
        > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not
        > > set up.
        > >
        > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics.
        > > Visually things look fine but I cannot explain
        > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes
        > > every 120 degrees. I did some research and
        > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating
        > > optics. Unfortunatley what I have on my
        > > images are not discussed in the article. By the
        > > process of elimination I can tell what they are
        > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the
        > > focus is pretty good I believe that would
        > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
        > >
        > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the
        > > moon and m-45. All the star images are
        > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are
        > > located in the photos directory under Danny
        > > Janosick test shots flt 132
        > >
        > >
        > http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
        Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
        > >
        > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to
        > > do more thorough evaluations. If anyone
        > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator
        > > contact me off list and I will email
        > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > Chris
        >
        > "The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or
        cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need
        men who can dream of things that never were."-John F. Kennedy
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        ______________
        > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
        > with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
        > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
        >
      • Michael Downing
        Hi Dan, These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the mounting points of the lens. I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold weather
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 3 7:45 AM
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          Hi Dan,

          These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the mounting points of the lens.

          I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold weather conditions

          Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with the 180

          http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg

           

          After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed with a compound that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch the lens

          http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg

          I removed the white compound one hole at a time and replaced it with silicone which stays soft under all conditions

          Here is a shot after I made the repairs

          http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg

           

          What’s funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the observatory right now and it also is showing the pinch marks too

           

          Michael Downing

          www.astroden.com

           

           

           


          From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dan
          Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
          To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots

           

          Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some quick images. The images were
          short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the fact my observatory is not quite
          yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.

          Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things look fine but I cannot explain
          why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120 degrees. I did some research and
          found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics. Unfortunatley what I have on my
          images are not discussed in the article. By the process of elimination I can tell what they are
          NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is pretty good I believe that would
          eliminate any spacers concerns.

          I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45. All the star images are
          unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the photos directory under Danny
          Janosick test shots flt 132

          http://tech. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/William- Optics/photos/ browse/aa21? c=

          The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more thorough evaluations. If anyone
          wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me off list and I will email
          them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.

        • Chris Appleton
          ... wrote: Hi Mike I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from using a compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 3 8:38 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Downing"
            <michael@...> wrote:


            Hi Mike

            I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from using a
            compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures causing
            pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.

            I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by TEC" and a
            Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws. I live in
            an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big issue for
            me also with my 132mm.

            I guess I will also have to change this compound to a silicone type
            material. Can you please provide details on how to carefully do this?

            Thanks again!

            Chris A

            >
            > Hi Dan,
            >
            > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the mounting
            points of the
            > lens.
            >
            > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold weather
            conditions
            >
            > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with the 180
            >
            > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
            >
            >
            >
            > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed with a
            compound
            > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch the lens
            >
            > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
            >
            > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and replaced it with
            > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
            >
            > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
            >
            > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
            >
            >
            >
            > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the observatory
            right now
            > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
            >
            >
            >
            > Michael Downing
            >
            > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-
            Optics@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of Dan
            > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
            > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
            >
            >
            >
            > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some quick
            images.
            > The images were
            > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the fact my
            > observatory is not quite
            > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
            >
            > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things look
            fine but I
            > cannot explain
            > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120 degrees.
            I did
            > some research and
            > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
            Unfortunatley
            > what I have on my
            > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
            elimination I can
            > tell what they are
            > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is pretty
            good I
            > believe that would
            > eliminate any spacers concerns.
            >
            > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45. All
            the star
            > images are
            > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the photos
            > directory under Danny
            > Janosick test shots flt 132
            >
            > http://tech.
            > <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
            Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
            > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
            >
            > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more thorough
            > evaluations. If anyone
            > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me off
            list and
            > I will email
            > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
            >
          • Michael Downing
            Chris I am not saying for sure that is what the problem is, I have not seen the 132 lens. I think someone needs to look at the lens and see if the elements are
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 3 8:57 AM
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              Chris I am not saying for sure that is what the problem is, I have not seen the 132 lens.

              I think someone needs to look at the lens and see if the elements are set in a hard compound like the TMB-180 was and THEN it may be considered a similar problem.

              I have a TMB-203 F7 in my observatory right now that is experiencing a similar problem and on quick inspection it looks like the lens is installed the same way as the TMB-180 with some sort of hard compound

              Here is a quick shot with the 203 F7 and you can see the similar spike marks…

              http://www.astroden.com/stl6303/tmb203f7/SAO_93955.jpg

               

              Michael Downing

              www.astroden.com

               

               

               

               

               


              From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Chris Appleton
              Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 11:38 AM
              To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [William-Optics] Re: flt-132 mm shots

               

              --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, " Michael Downing"
              <michael@... > wrote:

              Hi Mike

              I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from using a
              compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures causing
              pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.

              I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by TEC" and a
              Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws. I live in
              an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big issue for
              me also with my 132mm.

              I guess I will also have to change this compound to a silicone type
              material. Can you please provide details on how to carefully do this?

              Thanks again!

              Chris A

              >
              > Hi Dan,
              >
              > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the mounting
              points of the
              > lens.
              >
              > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold weather
              conditions
              >
              > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with the 180
              >
              > http://www.astroden .com/STL6303/ TMB180/NGC_ 2244.HA2. jpg
              >
              >
              >
              > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed with a
              compound
              > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch the lens
              >
              > http://www.astroden .com/lens. jpg
              >
              > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and replaced it with
              > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
              >
              > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
              >
              > http://www.astroden .com/STL6303/ TMB180/NGC_ 2244.Tuneup. jpg
              >
              >
              >
              > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the observatory
              right now
              > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
              >
              >
              >
              > Michael Downing
              >
              > www.astroden. com <http://www.astroden .com/>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com
              [mailto:William-
              Optics@yahoogroups. com]
              > On Behalf Of Dan
              > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
              > To: William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com
              > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
              >
              >
              >
              > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some quick
              images.
              > The images were
              > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the fact my
              > observatory is not quite
              > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
              >
              > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things look
              fine but I
              > cannot explain
              > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120 degrees.
              I did
              > some research and
              > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
              Unfortunatley
              > what I have on my
              > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
              elimination I can
              > tell what they are
              > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is pretty
              good I
              > believe that would
              > eliminate any spacers concerns.
              >
              > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45. All
              the star
              > images are
              > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the photos
              > directory under Danny
              > Janosick test shots flt 132
              >
              > http://tech.
              > <http://tech. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/William-
              Optics/photos/ browse/aa21? c=>
              > ph.groups.yahoo. com/group/ William-Optics/ photos/browse/ aa21?c=
              >
              > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more thorough
              > evaluations. If anyone
              > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me off
              list and
              > I will email
              > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
              >

            • hartwigksh
              Hi Mike; I ve noticed in your photos there seem to be 6 dark lanes on close examination of your pictures. Is this a result of pinched optics? As well, your
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 3 10:38 AM
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                Hi Mike;
                I've noticed in your photos there seem to be 6 dark lanes on close
                examination of your pictures. Is this a result of pinched optics? As
                well, your post fix pictures also show some diffraction spikes,
                although not as pronounced. Thanks for the picture of the lens cell,
                how did you remove the old compound? Also, what type of silicone did
                you use? Thanks.
                Burt
                (another concerned 132 owner)




                -- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Appleton"
                <denturist89@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Downing"
                > <michael@> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi Mike
                >
                > I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from using a
                > compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures causing
                > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.
                >
                > I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by TEC" and
                a
                > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws. I live
                in
                > an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big issue
                for
                > me also with my 132mm.
                >
                > I guess I will also have to change this compound to a silicone type
                > material. Can you please provide details on how to carefully do
                this?
                >
                > Thanks again!
                >
                > Chris A
                >
                > >
                > > Hi Dan,
                > >
                > > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the mounting
                > points of the
                > > lens.
                > >
                > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold weather
                > conditions
                > >
                > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with the 180
                > >
                > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed with
                a
                > compound
                > > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch the lens
                > >
                > > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
                > >
                > > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and replaced it
                with
                > > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
                > >
                > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                > >
                > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the observatory
                > right now
                > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Michael Downing
                > >
                > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-
                > Optics@yahoogroups.com]
                > > On Behalf Of Dan
                > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                > > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some
                quick
                > images.
                > > The images were
                > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the fact
                my
                > > observatory is not quite
                > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                > >
                > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things look
                > fine but I
                > > cannot explain
                > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                degrees.
                > I did
                > > some research and
                > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                > Unfortunatley
                > > what I have on my
                > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                > elimination I can
                > > tell what they are
                > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is
                pretty
                > good I
                > > believe that would
                > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                > >
                > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45.
                All
                > the star
                > > images are
                > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the
                photos
                > > directory under Danny
                > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                > >
                > > http://tech.
                > > <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                > >
                > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                thorough
                > > evaluations. If anyone
                > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me
                off
                > list and
                > > I will email
                > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                > >
                >
              • Hans K. Aspenberg
                ... I remember a friends Tak SKY-90 where unfocused stars looked like hexagons, but only in really cold weather (which isn t that uncommon here in Norway). It
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 3 10:54 AM
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                  hartwigksh wrote:

                  > I've noticed in your photos there seem to be 6 dark lanes on close
                  > examination of your pictures. Is this a result of pinched optics? As
                  > well, your post fix pictures also show some diffraction spikes,
                  > although not as pronounced. Thanks for the picture of the lens cell,
                  > how did you remove the old compound? Also, what type of silicone did
                  > you use? Thanks.

                  I remember a friends Tak SKY-90 where unfocused stars looked like
                  hexagons, but only in really cold weather (which isn't that uncommon
                  here in Norway). It was pinched optics and the telescope had to be
                  shipped back to Japan for repairs.

                  Best, Hans.
                • Scott Walker
                  I only see the affect on the first image. Since it does show-up every 120 degrees, I would suspect pinched optics, but before we go there have you tried
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 3 11:20 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I only see the affect on the first image. Since it does show-up every 120 degrees, I would suspect pinched optics, but before we go there have you tried rotating the camera to make sure the pattern stays fixed with the lens or is it fixed to the camera? What does a visual star test look like at focus?Do you see a 120 degree pattern then? A big scope like the 132 will take time to cool. Do you still see the problem after the scope has been out for hours? A big scope like a 132 will likely take twice as long to stabilize as say a 80mm scope and being a triplet will increase the time further. Put the scope out in the shade will before sunset and see if that helps. Just some thoughts, good luck.
                     
                    Scott Walker 
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Dan
                    Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 6:01 AM
                    Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots

                    Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some quick images. The images were
                    short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the fact my observatory is not quite
                    yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.

                    Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things look fine but I cannot explain
                    why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120 degrees. I did some research and
                    found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics. Unfortunatley what I have on my
                    images are not discussed in the article. By the process of elimination I can tell what they are
                    NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is pretty good I believe that would
                    eliminate any spacers concerns.

                    I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45. All the star images are
                    unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the photos directory under Danny
                    Janosick test shots flt 132

                    http://tech. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/William- Optics/photos/ browse/aa21? c=

                    The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more thorough evaluations. If anyone
                    wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me off list and I will email
                    them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.

                  • Scott Walker
                    I think I get it. Small pads are sometimes used to space the lenses, and they will be at a 120 degree spacing. If these pads are in the optical path they will
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 3 11:29 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I think I get it. Small pads are sometimes used to space the lenses, and they will be at a 120 degree spacing. If these pads are in the optical path they will cause some diffraction and maybe some vignetting. If this is the cause you should be able to see them. Shine a light into the lens and see if you can see little tabs every 120 degrees. Good thinking Chris.
                       
                      Scott Walker
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 6:26 AM
                      Subject: Re: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots

                      I would have to say these are lens spacers.

                      Chris
                      --- Dan <danjanos@optonline. net> wrote:

                      > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night
                      > for some quick images. The images were
                      > short exposures since it was a near full moon along
                      > with the fact my observatory is not quite
                      > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not
                      > set up.
                      >
                      > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics.
                      > Visually things look fine but I cannot explain
                      > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes
                      > every 120 degrees. I did some research and
                      > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating
                      > optics. Unfortunatley what I have on my
                      > images are not discussed in the article. By the
                      > process of elimination I can tell what they are
                      > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the
                      > focus is pretty good I believe that would
                      > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                      >
                      > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the
                      > moon and m-45. All the star images are
                      > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are
                      > located in the photos directory under Danny
                      > Janosick test shots flt 132
                      >
                      >
                      http://tech. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/William- Optics/photos/ browse/aa21? c=
                      >
                      > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to
                      > do more thorough evaluations. If anyone
                      > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator
                      > contact me off list and I will email
                      > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                      >
                      >

                      Chris

                      "The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were."-John F. Kennedy

                      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                      8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                      with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
                      http://tools. search.yahoo. com/shortcuts/ #news

                    • Chris Appleton
                      ... wrote: Hi Mike Was your 180 and 203mm lens cell manufactured by the same company? If so, then they still are using the same compound and
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 3 11:59 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Downing"
                        <michael@...> wrote:

                        Hi Mike

                        Was your 180 and 203mm lens cell manufactured by the same company? If
                        so, then they still are using the same compound and should be told
                        about it. Maybe the 132mm lens cell was also made by this same
                        company and has the same compound? I will check my 132mm out weather
                        permitting and see if this 120 degree pattern happens also. Thank
                        again for another image and feedback.

                        Cheers,

                        Chris A

                        >
                        > Chris I am not saying for sure that is what the problem is, I have
                        not seen
                        > the 132 lens.
                        >
                        > I think someone needs to look at the lens and see if the elements
                        are set in
                        > a hard compound like the TMB-180 was and THEN it may be considered
                        a similar
                        > problem.
                        >
                        > I have a TMB-203 F7 in my observatory right now that is
                        experiencing a
                        > similar problem and on quick inspection it looks like the lens is
                        installed
                        > the same way as the TMB-180 with some sort of hard compound
                        >
                        > Here is a quick shot with the 203 F7 and you can see the similar
                        spike
                        > marks.
                        >
                        > http://www.astroden.com/stl6303/tmb203f7/SAO_93955.jpg
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Michael Downing
                        >
                        > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-
                        Optics@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On Behalf Of Chris Appleton
                        > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 11:38 AM
                        > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [William-Optics] Re: flt-132 mm shots
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In William-Optics@ <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > yahoogroups.com, "Michael Downing"
                        > <michael@> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Mike
                        >
                        > I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from using a
                        > compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures causing
                        > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.
                        >
                        > I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by TEC" and
                        a
                        > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws. I live
                        in
                        > an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big issue
                        for
                        > me also with my 132mm.
                        >
                        > I guess I will also have to change this compound to a silicone type
                        > material. Can you please provide details on how to carefully do
                        this?
                        >
                        > Thanks again!
                        >
                        > Chris A
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Hi Dan,
                        > >
                        > > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the mounting
                        > points of the
                        > > lens.
                        > >
                        > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold weather
                        > conditions
                        > >
                        > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with the 180
                        > >
                        > > http://www.astroden
                        > <http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg>
                        > .com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed with
                        a
                        > compound
                        > > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch the lens
                        > >
                        > > http://www.astroden
                        <http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg> .com/lens.jpg
                        > >
                        > > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and replaced it
                        with
                        > > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
                        > >
                        > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                        > >
                        > > http://www.astroden
                        > <http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg>
                        > .com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the observatory
                        > right now
                        > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Michael Downing
                        > >
                        > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden
                        <http://www.astroden.com/> .com/>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > _____
                        > >
                        > > From: William-Optics@ <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-
                        > Optics@yahoogroups. <mailto:Optics%40yahoogroups.com> com]
                        > > On Behalf Of Dan
                        > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                        > > To: William-Optics@ <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some
                        quick
                        > images.
                        > > The images were
                        > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the fact
                        my
                        > > observatory is not quite
                        > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                        > >
                        > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things look
                        > fine but I
                        > > cannot explain
                        > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                        degrees.
                        > I did
                        > > some research and
                        > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                        > Unfortunatley
                        > > what I have on my
                        > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                        > elimination I can
                        > > tell what they are
                        > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is
                        pretty
                        > good I
                        > > believe that would
                        > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                        > >
                        > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45.
                        All
                        > the star
                        > > images are
                        > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the
                        photos
                        > > directory under Danny
                        > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                        > >
                        > > http://tech.
                        > > <http://tech. <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William->
                        > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                        > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                        > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                        > >
                        > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                        thorough
                        > > evaluations. If anyone
                        > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me
                        off
                        > list and
                        > > I will email
                        > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                        > >
                        >
                      • hartwigksh
                        ... images. The images were ... my observatory is not quite ... fine but I cannot explain ... I did some research and ... Unfortunatley what I have on my ...
                        Message 11 of 24 , Feb 3 1:07 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <danjanos@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some quick
                          images. The images were
                          > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the fact
                          my observatory is not quite
                          > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                          >
                          > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things look
                          fine but I cannot explain
                          > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120 degrees.
                          I did some research and
                          > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                          Unfortunatley what I have on my
                          > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                          elimination I can tell what they are
                          > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is
                          pretty good I believe that would
                          > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                          >
                          > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45. All
                          the star images are
                          > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the
                          photos directory under Danny
                          > Janosick test shots flt 132
                          >
                          > http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                          Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                          >
                          > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                          thorough evaluations. If anyone
                          > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me off
                          list and I will email
                          > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.

                          Chris;

                          If you saw chucks post with his 110 he has the same dark lanes
                          showing up, but he mentions he can see the spacers when looking down
                          the OTA. Have you checked this? I looked at my 132 and could not see
                          any spacers obstructing the optics. Please let me know.
                          Burt
                          >
                        • danjanos@optonline.net
                          Hi scott, I looked down the ota on paid particular interest on the lens cell. I could not see any spacers. I spent spent 6 hours framing the warm room and I am
                          Message 12 of 24 , Feb 3 3:12 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Re: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots Hi scott,
                               I looked down the ota on paid particular interest on the lens cell. I could not see any spacers.
                            I spent spent 6 hours framing the warm room and I am pretty exhausted by since the scope is already mounted I may shoot some other images tonight.  I will post later tonight or tomorrow.
                            danny


                            On 2/3/07 2:29 PM, "Scott Walker" <sdwalker@...> wrote:


                             
                             

                            I think I get it. Small pads are sometimes used to space the lenses, and they will be at a 120 degree spacing. If these pads are in the optical path they will cause some diffraction and maybe some vignetting. If this is the cause you should be able to see them. Shine a light into the lens and see if you can see little tabs every 120 degrees. Good thinking Chris.

                            Scott Walker

                            ----- Original Message -----
                             
                            From:  chris  provost <mailto:lineman_16735@...>  
                             
                            To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com  
                             
                            Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 6:26  AM
                             
                            Subject: Re: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm  shots
                             

                             
                             

                            I would have to say these are lens spacers.

                            Chris
                            --- Dan <danjanos@...>  wrote:

                            > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night
                            >  for some quick images. The images were
                            > short exposures since it was a  near full moon along
                            > with the fact my observatory is not quite  
                            > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not
                            > set  up.
                            >
                            > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics.
                            >  Visually things look fine but I cannot explain
                            > why on all the images  the stars show dark lanes
                            > every 120 degrees. I did some research and  
                            > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating
                            > optics.  Unfortunatley what I have on my
                            > images are not discussed in the  article. By the
                            > process of elimination I can tell what they are  
                            > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the
                            > focus is  pretty good I believe that would
                            > eliminate any spacers  concerns.
                            >
                            > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran,  the
                            > moon and m-45. All the star images are
                            > unprocessed  straight from the camera. They are
                            > located in the photos directory  under Danny
                            > Janosick test shots flt 132
                            >
                            >
                            http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                            >  
                            > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to
                            > do more  thorough evaluations. If anyone
                            > wants the RAW images unprocess to  throw in aberrator
                            > contact me off list and I will email
                            > them  to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                            >
                            >

                            Chris

                            "The  problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose  horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of  things that never were."-John F.  Kennedy

                            __________________________________________________________
                            8:00?  8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                            with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime  shortcut.
                            http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news

                                


                            From the Desk of
                            Daniel Andrew Janosick
                            90 Rider Avenue
                            Patchogue, NY 11772
                          • Chris Appleton
                            ... wrote: Hi Burt I took a very good look using a flashlight towards the 132mm lens and DID NOT see any spacers what so ever around the cell in the optical
                            Message 13 of 24 , Feb 3 3:48 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "hartwigksh" <hartwigksh@...>
                              wrote:

                              Hi Burt

                              I took a very good look using a flashlight towards the 132mm lens and
                              DID NOT see any spacers what so ever around the cell in the optical
                              path. I did see two large well made baffles and an excellent painted
                              tube on the inside to avoid internal reflections. I cannot see
                              spacers being the cause of these dark lines if they do not exist??

                              I am glad that I ordered the WO combo saddle plate because my G11
                              saddle plate does not fit the WO dovetail plate. I will be using my
                              G11 saddle plate attached to my vixen dovetail to mount my C9.25 with
                              Losmandy dovetail to my new CG5GT for visual use. The 132mm with the
                              FS-60C piggyback will go on the G11/WO Saddle plate for ccd imaging
                              and visual use.

                              Best regards,

                              Chris A

                              >
                              > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <danjanos@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some
                              quick
                              > images. The images were
                              > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the fact
                              > my observatory is not quite
                              > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                              > >
                              > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things look
                              > fine but I cannot explain
                              > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                              degrees.
                              > I did some research and
                              > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                              > Unfortunatley what I have on my
                              > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                              > elimination I can tell what they are
                              > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is
                              > pretty good I believe that would
                              > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                              > >
                              > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45.
                              All
                              > the star images are
                              > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the
                              > photos directory under Danny
                              > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                              > >
                              > > http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                              > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                              > >
                              > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                              > thorough evaluations. If anyone
                              > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me
                              off
                              > list and I will email
                              > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                              >
                              > Chris;
                              >
                              > If you saw chucks post with his 110 he has the same dark lanes
                              > showing up, but he mentions he can see the spacers when looking
                              down
                              > the OTA. Have you checked this? I looked at my 132 and could not
                              see
                              > any spacers obstructing the optics. Please let me know.
                              > Burt
                              > >
                              >
                            • danieldgj
                              I ve seen somewhat similar results with a friend who shoots using Astro-Physics optics. He gets out so seldom that he hasn t had a chance to track down the
                              Message 14 of 24 , Feb 4 1:15 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I've seen somewhat similar results with a friend who shoots using
                                Astro-Physics optics. He gets out so seldom that he hasn't had a
                                chance to track down the problem yet.

                                Daniel Johnson

                                --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <danjanos@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some quick
                                images. The images were
                                > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the fact
                                my observatory is not quite
                                > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                                >
                                > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things look
                                fine but I cannot explain
                                > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120 degrees.
                                I did some research and
                                > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                                Unfortunatley what I have on my
                                > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                                elimination I can tell what they are
                                > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is
                                pretty good I believe that would
                                > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                                >
                                > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45. All
                                the star images are
                                > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the
                                photos directory under Danny
                                > Janosick test shots flt 132
                                >
                                > http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                                >
                                > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                                thorough evaluations. If anyone
                                > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me off
                                list and I will email
                                > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                                >
                              • Marc Paradis
                                Hi Chris, I have the same pattern around bright stars using my 100mm TMB (really similar to Michael result): http://www.photongrabber.com/html/detail_02.html
                                Message 15 of 24 , Feb 5 4:43 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Chris,

                                  I have the same pattern around bright stars using my 100mm TMB
                                  (really similar to Michael result):
                                  http://www.photongrabber.com/html/detail_02.html

                                  Similar pattern with 175mm TMB of Bob Anderson:
                                  http://www.tpo.ca/M63.htm

                                  I am almost tempted to say it is a classic TMB artifact...

                                  Cheers,

                                  Marc

                                  --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Appleton"
                                  <denturist89@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Downing"
                                  > <michael@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hi Mike
                                  >
                                  > I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from using a
                                  > compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures causing
                                  > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.
                                  >
                                  > I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by TEC"
                                  and a
                                  > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws. I live
                                  in
                                  > an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big issue
                                  for
                                  > me also with my 132mm.
                                  >
                                  > I guess I will also have to change this compound to a silicone
                                  type
                                  > material. Can you please provide details on how to carefully do
                                  this?
                                  >
                                  > Thanks again!
                                  >
                                  > Chris A
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi Dan,
                                  > >
                                  > > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the mounting
                                  > points of the
                                  > > lens.
                                  > >
                                  > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold weather
                                  > conditions
                                  > >
                                  > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with the 180
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed with
                                  a
                                  > compound
                                  > > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch the
                                  lens
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
                                  > >
                                  > > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and replaced it
                                  with
                                  > > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
                                  > >
                                  > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the observatory
                                  > right now
                                  > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Michael Downing
                                  > >
                                  > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > _____
                                  > >
                                  > > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-
                                  > Optics@yahoogroups.com]
                                  > > On Behalf Of Dan
                                  > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                                  > > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some
                                  quick
                                  > images.
                                  > > The images were
                                  > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the
                                  fact my
                                  > > observatory is not quite
                                  > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                                  > >
                                  > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things
                                  look
                                  > fine but I
                                  > > cannot explain
                                  > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                                  degrees.
                                  > I did
                                  > > some research and
                                  > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                                  > Unfortunatley
                                  > > what I have on my
                                  > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                                  > elimination I can
                                  > > tell what they are
                                  > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is
                                  pretty
                                  > good I
                                  > > believe that would
                                  > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                                  > >
                                  > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45.
                                  All
                                  > the star
                                  > > images are
                                  > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the
                                  photos
                                  > > directory under Danny
                                  > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                                  > >
                                  > > http://tech.
                                  > > <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                  > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                                  > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                                  > >
                                  > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                                  thorough
                                  > > evaluations. If anyone
                                  > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me
                                  off
                                  > list and
                                  > > I will email
                                  > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • mackey_10611
                                  ... Flipping through TMB gallery pages, I found this: http://www.tmboptical.com/picsRecord.asp?pic_id=6& Lo and behold, the same artifact pattern. Hojong Lin
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Feb 5 6:06 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Paradis"
                                    <marc.paradis@...> wrote:
                                    > I am almost tempted to say it is a classic TMB artifact...

                                    Flipping through TMB gallery pages, I found this:

                                    http://www.tmboptical.com/picsRecord.asp?pic_id=6&

                                    Lo and behold, the same artifact pattern.

                                    Hojong Lin
                                  • Chris Appleton
                                    ... wrote: Hi Marc Good to hear from you on this group. As you know the weather has not been the greatest from our location and it s been
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Feb 5 6:40 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Paradis"
                                      <marc.paradis@...> wrote:

                                      Hi Marc

                                      Good to hear from you on this group. As you know the weather has not
                                      been the greatest from our location and it's been slow on the RASCAG
                                      group. Thanks for posting the pictures showing the dark marking
                                      around brighter stars. If it's only showing up around the bright
                                      stars then I can live with it. This does look like a TMB trait and
                                      the FLT 132mm lens was designed by a leading designer 'and we all
                                      know who he is'.

                                      Take care!

                                      Chris A

                                      >
                                      > Hi Chris,
                                      >
                                      > I have the same pattern around bright stars using my 100mm TMB
                                      > (really similar to Michael result):
                                      > http://www.photongrabber.com/html/detail_02.html
                                      >
                                      > Similar pattern with 175mm TMB of Bob Anderson:
                                      > http://www.tpo.ca/M63.htm
                                      >
                                      > I am almost tempted to say it is a classic TMB artifact...
                                      >
                                      > Cheers,
                                      >
                                      > Marc
                                      >
                                      > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Appleton"
                                      > <denturist89@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Downing"
                                      > > <michael@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi Mike
                                      > >
                                      > > I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from using a
                                      > > compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures causing
                                      > > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.
                                      > >
                                      > > I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by TEC"
                                      > and a
                                      > > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws. I live
                                      > in
                                      > > an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big issue
                                      > for
                                      > > me also with my 132mm.
                                      > >
                                      > > I guess I will also have to change this compound to a silicone
                                      > type
                                      > > material. Can you please provide details on how to carefully do
                                      > this?
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks again!
                                      > >
                                      > > Chris A
                                      > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hi Dan,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the mounting
                                      > > points of the
                                      > > > lens.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold weather
                                      > > conditions
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with the
                                      180
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed
                                      with
                                      > a
                                      > > compound
                                      > > > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch the
                                      > lens
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and replaced it
                                      > with
                                      > > > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the
                                      observatory
                                      > > right now
                                      > > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Michael Downing
                                      > > >
                                      > > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > _____
                                      > > >
                                      > > > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-
                                      > > Optics@yahoogroups.com]
                                      > > > On Behalf Of Dan
                                      > > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                                      > > > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some
                                      > quick
                                      > > images.
                                      > > > The images were
                                      > > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the
                                      > fact my
                                      > > > observatory is not quite
                                      > > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things
                                      > look
                                      > > fine but I
                                      > > > cannot explain
                                      > > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                                      > degrees.
                                      > > I did
                                      > > > some research and
                                      > > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                                      > > Unfortunatley
                                      > > > what I have on my
                                      > > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                                      > > elimination I can
                                      > > > tell what they are
                                      > > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is
                                      > pretty
                                      > > good I
                                      > > > believe that would
                                      > > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45.
                                      > All
                                      > > the star
                                      > > > images are
                                      > > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the
                                      > photos
                                      > > > directory under Danny
                                      > > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://tech.
                                      > > > <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                      > > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                                      > > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                                      > thorough
                                      > > > evaluations. If anyone
                                      > > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me
                                      > off
                                      > > list and
                                      > > > I will email
                                      > > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • danjanos@optonline.net
                                      I am unsure if this is a ³planned² TMB design trait. I viewed many images taken with the TMB 130 ss on helixgate.net and these artifacts are not visible. The
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Feb 6 5:26 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Re: [William-Optics] Re: flt-132 mm shots I am unsure if this is a “planned” TMB design trait. I viewed many images taken with the TMB 130 ss on helixgate.net and these artifacts are not visible. The main difference between the tmb lens cell and the WO is the tmb is temperature compensated. I am wondering if when a tmb is cooled to ambient the lens cell adjust and the artifacts are gone versus a non-cooled lens cell.
                                        Anyhoo my 132mm has been is the observatory for few days  at 10 degrees Fahrenheit, tonight I may take a some quick shots with the dslr and the sbig st-2000xm and forward the pics to the group. This time I may bracket the exposures to see the impact.
                                        danny

                                        On 2/5/07 9:40 PM, "Chris Appleton" <denturist89@...> wrote:


                                         
                                         

                                        --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marc Paradis"
                                        <marc.paradis@...> wrote:

                                        Hi Marc

                                        Good to hear from you on this group. As you know the weather has not
                                        been the greatest from our location and it's been slow on the RASCAG
                                        group. Thanks for posting the pictures showing the dark marking
                                        around brighter stars. If it's only showing up around the bright
                                        stars then I can live with it. This does look like a TMB trait and
                                        the FLT 132mm lens was designed by a leading designer 'and we all
                                        know who he is'.

                                        Take care!

                                        Chris A

                                        >
                                        > Hi Chris,
                                        >
                                        > I have the same pattern around bright stars using my 100mm TMB
                                        > (really similar to Michael result):
                                        > http://www.photongrabber.com/html/detail_02.html
                                        >
                                        > Similar pattern with 175mm TMB of Bob Anderson:
                                        > http://www.tpo.ca/M63.htm
                                        >
                                        > I am almost tempted to say it is a classic TMB artifact...
                                        >
                                        > Cheers,
                                        >
                                        > Marc
                                        >
                                        > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris Appleton"
                                        > <denturist89@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Michael Downing"
                                        > > <michael@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Hi Mike
                                        > >
                                        > > I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from using a
                                        > > compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures causing
                                        > > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.
                                        > >
                                        > > I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by TEC"
                                        > and a
                                        > > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws. I live
                                        > in
                                        > > an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big issue
                                        > for
                                        > > me also with my 132mm.
                                        > >
                                        > > I guess I will also have to change this compound to a silicone
                                        > type
                                        > > material. Can you please provide details on how to carefully do
                                        > this?
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks again!
                                        > >
                                        > > Chris A
                                        > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hi Dan,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the mounting
                                        > > points of the
                                        > > > lens.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold weather
                                        > > conditions
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with the
                                        180
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed
                                        with
                                        > a
                                        > > compound
                                        > > > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch the
                                        > lens
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and replaced it
                                        > with
                                        > > > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the
                                        observatory
                                        > > right now
                                        > > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Michael Downing
                                        > > >
                                        > > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > >   _____  
                                        > > >
                                        > > > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:William-
                                        > > Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Optics%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                                        > > > On Behalf Of Dan
                                        > > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                                        > > > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some
                                        > quick
                                        > > images.
                                        > > > The images were
                                        > > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the
                                        > fact my
                                        > > > observatory is not quite
                                        > > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things
                                        > look
                                        > > fine but I
                                        > > > cannot explain
                                        > > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                                        > degrees.
                                        > > I did
                                        > > > some research and
                                        > > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                                        > > Unfortunatley
                                        > > > what I have on my
                                        > > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                                        > > elimination I can
                                        > > > tell what they are
                                        > > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is
                                        > pretty
                                        > > good I
                                        > > > believe that would
                                        > > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-45.
                                        > All
                                        > > the star
                                        > > > images are
                                        > > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the
                                        > photos
                                        > > > directory under Danny
                                        > > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://tech.
                                        > > > <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                        > > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                                        > > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                                        > thorough
                                        > > > evaluations. If anyone
                                        > > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact me
                                        > off
                                        > > list and
                                        > > > I will email
                                        > > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >

                                         
                                            


                                        From the Desk of
                                        Daniel Andrew Janosick
                                        90 Rider Avenue
                                        Patchogue, NY 11772
                                      • Marc Paradis
                                        Hi Chris, I saw this artifact so many times on images produced by TMB optics that it is not a coincidence for sure. I saw the same pattern on Johannes Shedler
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Feb 6 3:26 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Chris,

                                          I saw this artifact so many times on images produced by TMB optics
                                          that it is not a coincidence for sure.

                                          I saw the same pattern on Johannes Shedler website when he was using
                                          his TMB scope in 2003:
                                          http://panther-observatory.com/

                                          But again, this TMB trait is only visible on VERY bright stars. IMHO,
                                          it is not a big concern.

                                          I received my 4" field flattener but the thread is not compatible
                                          with my 2001 WO scope. I either need to build 2 adapters (one for the
                                          STL, one for the scope) or either upgrade for the FLT-132. Custom
                                          adapters are not cheap. I need a custom adapter for the STL anyway.

                                          However, I would like to see an image produced with the STL-11000M /
                                          FLT-132 / 4" FF before calling for an upgrade.

                                          I hope you and Dany will be able to show us some FLT-132 images very
                                          soon!

                                          Marc Paradis

                                          --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Appleton"
                                          <denturist89@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Paradis"
                                          > <marc.paradis@> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi Marc
                                          >
                                          > Good to hear from you on this group. As you know the weather has
                                          not
                                          > been the greatest from our location and it's been slow on the
                                          RASCAG
                                          > group. Thanks for posting the pictures showing the dark marking
                                          > around brighter stars. If it's only showing up around the bright
                                          > stars then I can live with it. This does look like a TMB trait and
                                          > the FLT 132mm lens was designed by a leading designer 'and we all
                                          > know who he is'.
                                          >
                                          > Take care!
                                          >
                                          > Chris A
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > > Hi Chris,
                                          > >
                                          > > I have the same pattern around bright stars using my 100mm TMB
                                          > > (really similar to Michael result):
                                          > > http://www.photongrabber.com/html/detail_02.html
                                          > >
                                          > > Similar pattern with 175mm TMB of Bob Anderson:
                                          > > http://www.tpo.ca/M63.htm
                                          > >
                                          > > I am almost tempted to say it is a classic TMB artifact...
                                          > >
                                          > > Cheers,
                                          > >
                                          > > Marc
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Appleton"
                                          > > <denturist89@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Downing"
                                          > > > <michael@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Hi Mike
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from using
                                          a
                                          > > > compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures causing
                                          > > > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by TEC"
                                          > > and a
                                          > > > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws. I
                                          live
                                          > > in
                                          > > > an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big
                                          issue
                                          > > for
                                          > > > me also with my 132mm.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I guess I will also have to change this compound to a silicone
                                          > > type
                                          > > > material. Can you please provide details on how to carefully do
                                          > > this?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thanks again!
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Chris A
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Hi Dan,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the
                                          mounting
                                          > > > points of the
                                          > > > > lens.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold
                                          weather
                                          > > > conditions
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with the
                                          > 180
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed
                                          > with
                                          > > a
                                          > > > compound
                                          > > > > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch the
                                          > > lens
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and replaced
                                          it
                                          > > with
                                          > > > > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the
                                          > observatory
                                          > > > right now
                                          > > > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Michael Downing
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > _____
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-
                                          > > > Optics@yahoogroups.com]
                                          > > > > On Behalf Of Dan
                                          > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                                          > > > > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for some
                                          > > quick
                                          > > > images.
                                          > > > > The images were
                                          > > > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with the
                                          > > fact my
                                          > > > > observatory is not quite
                                          > > > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually things
                                          > > look
                                          > > > fine but I
                                          > > > > cannot explain
                                          > > > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                                          > > degrees.
                                          > > > I did
                                          > > > > some research and
                                          > > > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                                          > > > Unfortunatley
                                          > > > > what I have on my
                                          > > > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                                          > > > elimination I can
                                          > > > > tell what they are
                                          > > > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus is
                                          > > pretty
                                          > > > good I
                                          > > > > believe that would
                                          > > > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-
                                          45.
                                          > > All
                                          > > > the star
                                          > > > > images are
                                          > > > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in the
                                          > > photos
                                          > > > > directory under Danny
                                          > > > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://tech.
                                          > > > > <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                          > > > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                                          > > > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                                          > > thorough
                                          > > > > evaluations. If anyone
                                          > > > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator contact
                                          me
                                          > > off
                                          > > > list and
                                          > > > > I will email
                                          > > > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Chris Appleton
                                          ... Hi Dan I hope things work out for you tonight and looking forward to some images. Weather for me is not co-operating and the temperature with the wind
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Feb 6 3:58 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, danjanos@... wrote:

                                            Hi Dan

                                            I hope things work out for you tonight and looking forward to some
                                            images. Weather for me is not co-operating and the temperature with
                                            the wind chill (quite windy) is -25C.

                                            Cheers,

                                            Chris A

                                            >
                                            > I am unsure if this is a ³planned² TMB design trait. I viewed many
                                            images
                                            > taken with the TMB 130 ss on helixgate.net and these artifacts are
                                            not
                                            > visible. The main difference between the tmb lens cell and the WO
                                            is the tmb
                                            > is temperature compensated. I am wondering if when a tmb is cooled
                                            to
                                            > ambient the lens cell adjust and the artifacts are gone versus a
                                            non-cooled
                                            > lens cell.
                                            > Anyhoo my 132mm has been is the observatory for few days at 10
                                            degrees
                                            > Fahrenheit, tonight I may take a some quick shots with the dslr and
                                            the sbig
                                            > st-2000xm and forward the pics to the group. This time I may
                                            bracket the
                                            > exposures to see the impact.
                                            > danny
                                            >
                                            > On 2/5/07 9:40 PM, "Chris Appleton" <denturist89@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marc Paradis"
                                            > > <marc.paradis@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Hi Marc
                                            > >
                                            > > Good to hear from you on this group. As you know the weather has
                                            not
                                            > > been the greatest from our location and it's been slow on the
                                            RASCAG
                                            > > group. Thanks for posting the pictures showing the dark marking
                                            > > around brighter stars. If it's only showing up around the bright
                                            > > stars then I can live with it. This does look like a TMB trait and
                                            > > the FLT 132mm lens was designed by a leading designer 'and we all
                                            > > know who he is'.
                                            > >
                                            > > Take care!
                                            > >
                                            > > Chris A
                                            > >
                                            > >> >
                                            > >> > Hi Chris,
                                            > >> >
                                            > >> > I have the same pattern around bright stars using my 100mm TMB
                                            > >> > (really similar to Michael result):
                                            > >> > http://www.photongrabber.com/html/detail_02.html
                                            > >> >
                                            > >> > Similar pattern with 175mm TMB of Bob Anderson:
                                            > >> > http://www.tpo.ca/M63.htm
                                            > >> >
                                            > >> > I am almost tempted to say it is a classic TMB artifact...
                                            > >> >
                                            > >> > Cheers,
                                            > >> >
                                            > >> > Marc
                                            > >> >
                                            > >> > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris Appleton"
                                            > >> > <denturist89@> wrote:
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >>> > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Michael Downing"
                                            > >>> > > <michael@> wrote:
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >>> > > Hi Mike
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >>> > > I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from
                                            using a
                                            > >>> > > compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures
                                            causing
                                            > >>> > > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >>> > > I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by
                                            TEC"
                                            > >> > and a
                                            > >>> > > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws.
                                            I live
                                            > >> > in
                                            > >>> > > an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big
                                            issue
                                            > >> > for
                                            > >>> > > me also with my 132mm.
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >>> > > I guess I will also have to change this compound to a
                                            silicone
                                            > >> > type
                                            > >>> > > material. Can you please provide details on how to
                                            carefully do
                                            > >> > this?
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >>> > > Thanks again!
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >>> > > Chris A
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > Hi Dan,
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the
                                            mounting
                                            > >>> > > points of the
                                            > >>>> > > > lens.
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold
                                            weather
                                            > >>> > > conditions
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with
                                            the
                                            > > 180
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was
                                            installed
                                            > > with
                                            > >> > a
                                            > >>> > > compound
                                            > >>>> > > > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch
                                            the
                                            > >> > lens
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and
                                            replaced it
                                            > >> > with
                                            > >>>> > > > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the
                                            > > observatory
                                            > >>> > > right now
                                            > >>>> > > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > Michael Downing
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > _____
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:William-
                                            > >>> > > Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Optics%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                                            > >>>> > > > On Behalf Of Dan
                                            > >>>> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                                            > >>>> > > > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            > >>>> > > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for
                                            some
                                            > >> > quick
                                            > >>> > > images.
                                            > >>>> > > > The images were
                                            > >>>> > > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with
                                            the
                                            > >> > fact my
                                            > >>>> > > > observatory is not quite
                                            > >>>> > > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set
                                            up.
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually
                                            things
                                            > >> > look
                                            > >>> > > fine but I
                                            > >>>> > > > cannot explain
                                            > >>>> > > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                                            > >> > degrees.
                                            > >>> > > I did
                                            > >>>> > > > some research and
                                            > >>>> > > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating
                                            optics.
                                            > >>> > > Unfortunatley
                                            > >>>> > > > what I have on my
                                            > >>>> > > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process
                                            of
                                            > >>> > > elimination I can
                                            > >>>> > > > tell what they are
                                            > >>>> > > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the
                                            focus is
                                            > >> > pretty
                                            > >>> > > good I
                                            > >>>> > > > believe that would
                                            > >>>> > > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon
                                            and m-45.
                                            > >> > All
                                            > >>> > > the star
                                            > >>>> > > > images are
                                            > >>>> > > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located
                                            in the
                                            > >> > photos
                                            > >>>> > > > directory under Danny
                                            > >>>> > > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > http://tech.
                                            > >>>> > > > <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                            > >>> > > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                                            > >>>> > > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                            Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>>> > > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do
                                            more
                                            > >> > thorough
                                            > >>>> > > > evaluations. If anyone
                                            > >>>> > > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator
                                            contact me
                                            > >> > off
                                            > >>> > > list and
                                            > >>>> > > > I will email
                                            > >>>> > > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                                            > >>>> > > >
                                            > >>> > >
                                            > >> >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From the Desk of
                                            > Daniel Andrew Janosick
                                            > 90 Rider Avenue
                                            > Patchogue, NY 11772
                                            >
                                          • Chris Appleton
                                            ... wrote: Hi Marc The images on Johannes site is simply awesome, thanks for the link. Hopefully the weather will improve soon. Tonight is
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Feb 6 4:00 PM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Paradis"
                                              <marc.paradis@...> wrote:

                                              Hi Marc

                                              The images on Johannes site is simply awesome, thanks for the link.
                                              Hopefully the weather will improve soon. Tonight is partially cloudy
                                              with strong winds and the temperature with the wind chill is -25C.

                                              Cheers,

                                              Chris A

                                              >
                                              > Hi Chris,
                                              >
                                              > I saw this artifact so many times on images produced by TMB optics
                                              > that it is not a coincidence for sure.
                                              >
                                              > I saw the same pattern on Johannes Shedler website when he was
                                              using
                                              > his TMB scope in 2003:
                                              > http://panther-observatory.com/
                                              >
                                              > But again, this TMB trait is only visible on VERY bright stars.
                                              IMHO,
                                              > it is not a big concern.
                                              >
                                              > I received my 4" field flattener but the thread is not compatible
                                              > with my 2001 WO scope. I either need to build 2 adapters (one for
                                              the
                                              > STL, one for the scope) or either upgrade for the FLT-132. Custom
                                              > adapters are not cheap. I need a custom adapter for the STL anyway.
                                              >
                                              > However, I would like to see an image produced with the STL-
                                              11000M /
                                              > FLT-132 / 4" FF before calling for an upgrade.
                                              >
                                              > I hope you and Dany will be able to show us some FLT-132 images
                                              very
                                              > soon!
                                              >
                                              > Marc Paradis
                                              >
                                              > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Appleton"
                                              > <denturist89@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Paradis"
                                              > > <marc.paradis@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Hi Marc
                                              > >
                                              > > Good to hear from you on this group. As you know the weather has
                                              > not
                                              > > been the greatest from our location and it's been slow on the
                                              > RASCAG
                                              > > group. Thanks for posting the pictures showing the dark marking
                                              > > around brighter stars. If it's only showing up around the bright
                                              > > stars then I can live with it. This does look like a TMB trait
                                              and
                                              > > the FLT 132mm lens was designed by a leading designer 'and we all
                                              > > know who he is'.
                                              > >
                                              > > Take care!
                                              > >
                                              > > Chris A
                                              > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Hi Chris,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I have the same pattern around bright stars using my 100mm TMB
                                              > > > (really similar to Michael result):
                                              > > > http://www.photongrabber.com/html/detail_02.html
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Similar pattern with 175mm TMB of Bob Anderson:
                                              > > > http://www.tpo.ca/M63.htm
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I am almost tempted to say it is a classic TMB artifact...
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Cheers,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Marc
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Appleton"
                                              > > > <denturist89@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Downing"
                                              > > > > <michael@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Hi Mike
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from
                                              using
                                              > a
                                              > > > > compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures
                                              causing
                                              > > > > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by
                                              TEC"
                                              > > > and a
                                              > > > > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws. I
                                              > live
                                              > > > in
                                              > > > > an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big
                                              > issue
                                              > > > for
                                              > > > > me also with my 132mm.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I guess I will also have to change this compound to a
                                              silicone
                                              > > > type
                                              > > > > material. Can you please provide details on how to carefully
                                              do
                                              > > > this?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Thanks again!
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Chris A
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Hi Dan,
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the
                                              > mounting
                                              > > > > points of the
                                              > > > > > lens.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold
                                              > weather
                                              > > > > conditions
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with
                                              the
                                              > > 180
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was installed
                                              > > with
                                              > > > a
                                              > > > > compound
                                              > > > > > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch
                                              the
                                              > > > lens
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and
                                              replaced
                                              > it
                                              > > > with
                                              > > > > > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the
                                              > > observatory
                                              > > > > right now
                                              > > > > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Michael Downing
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > _____
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-
                                              > > > > Optics@yahoogroups.com]
                                              > > > > > On Behalf Of Dan
                                              > > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                                              > > > > > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for
                                              some
                                              > > > quick
                                              > > > > images.
                                              > > > > > The images were
                                              > > > > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with
                                              the
                                              > > > fact my
                                              > > > > > observatory is not quite
                                              > > > > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set up.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually
                                              things
                                              > > > look
                                              > > > > fine but I
                                              > > > > > cannot explain
                                              > > > > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                                              > > > degrees.
                                              > > > > I did
                                              > > > > > some research and
                                              > > > > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating optics.
                                              > > > > Unfortunatley
                                              > > > > > what I have on my
                                              > > > > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process of
                                              > > > > elimination I can
                                              > > > > > tell what they are
                                              > > > > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the focus
                                              is
                                              > > > pretty
                                              > > > > good I
                                              > > > > > believe that would
                                              > > > > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon and m-
                                              > 45.
                                              > > > All
                                              > > > > the star
                                              > > > > > images are
                                              > > > > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located in
                                              the
                                              > > > photos
                                              > > > > > directory under Danny
                                              > > > > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://tech.
                                              > > > > > <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                              > > > > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                                              > > > > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/photos/browse/aa21?
                                              c=
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do more
                                              > > > thorough
                                              > > > > > evaluations. If anyone
                                              > > > > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator
                                              contact
                                              > me
                                              > > > off
                                              > > > > list and
                                              > > > > > I will email
                                              > > > > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • danjanos@optonline.net
                                              Chris, Even with the warm room constructed the wiring is not yet run from the warm room to the scopes. And it is too cold to sit outside and play around with
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Feb 6 6:58 PM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Re: [William-Optics] Re: flt-132 mm shots Chris,
                                                   Even with the warm room constructed the wiring is not yet run from the warm room to the scopes. And it is too cold to sit outside and play around with wires. Maybe tomorrow.
                                                danny


                                                On 2/6/07 6:58 PM, "Chris Appleton" <denturist89@...> wrote:


                                                 
                                                 

                                                --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , danjanos@... wrote:

                                                Hi Dan

                                                I hope things work out for you tonight and looking forward to some
                                                images. Weather for me is not co-operating and the temperature with
                                                the wind chill (quite windy) is -25C.

                                                Cheers,

                                                Chris A

                                                >
                                                > I am unsure if this is a “planned” TMB design trait. I viewed many
                                                images
                                                > taken with the TMB 130 ss on helixgate.net and these artifacts are
                                                not
                                                > visible. The main difference between the tmb lens cell and the WO
                                                is the tmb
                                                > is temperature compensated. I am wondering if when a tmb is cooled
                                                to
                                                > ambient the lens cell adjust and the artifacts are gone versus a
                                                non-cooled
                                                > lens cell.
                                                > Anyhoo my 132mm has been is the observatory for few days  at 10
                                                degrees
                                                > Fahrenheit, tonight I may take a some quick shots with the dslr and
                                                the sbig
                                                > st-2000xm and forward the pics to the group. This time I may
                                                bracket the
                                                > exposures to see the impact.
                                                > danny
                                                >
                                                > On 2/5/07 9:40 PM, "Chris Appleton" <denturist89@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >  
                                                > >  
                                                > >  
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marc Paradis"
                                                > > <marc.paradis@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Hi Marc
                                                > >
                                                > > Good to hear from you on this group. As you know the weather has
                                                not
                                                > > been the greatest from our location and it's been slow on the
                                                RASCAG
                                                > > group. Thanks for posting the pictures showing the dark marking
                                                > > around brighter stars. If it's only showing up around the bright
                                                > > stars then I can live with it. This does look like a TMB trait and
                                                > > the FLT 132mm lens was designed by a leading designer 'and we all
                                                > > know who he is'.
                                                > >
                                                > > Take care!
                                                > >
                                                > > Chris A
                                                > >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > Hi Chris,
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > I have the same pattern around bright stars using my 100mm TMB
                                                > >> > (really similar to Michael result):
                                                > >> > http://www.photongrabber.com/html/detail_02.html
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > Similar pattern with 175mm TMB of Bob Anderson:
                                                > >> > http://www.tpo.ca/M63.htm
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > I am almost tempted to say it is a classic TMB artifact...
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > Cheers,
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > Marc
                                                > >> >
                                                > >> > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > >> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris Appleton"
                                                > >> > <denturist89@> wrote:
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >>> > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > >>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Michael Downing"
                                                > >>> > > <michael@> wrote:
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >>> > > Hi Mike
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >>> > > I would have never guessed this problem to be caused from
                                                using a
                                                > >>> > > compound that turned very hard under cold temperatures
                                                causing
                                                > >>> > > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing this.
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >>> > > I looked at my older images using a WO 110mm "lens made by
                                                TEC"
                                                > >> > and a
                                                > >>> > > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in the raws.
                                                I live
                                                > >> > in
                                                > >>> > > an area that can get quite cold also, so this will be a big
                                                issue
                                                > >> > for
                                                > >>> > > me also with my 132mm.
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >>> > > I guess I will also have to change this compound to a
                                                silicone
                                                > >> > type
                                                > >>> > > material. Can you please provide details on how to
                                                carefully do
                                                > >> > this?
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >>> > > Thanks again!
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >>> > > Chris A
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > Hi Dan,
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > These dark lines you are seeing in the optics are the
                                                mounting
                                                > >>> > > points of the
                                                > >>>> > > > lens.
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180 under cold
                                                weather
                                                > >>> > > conditions
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar problem with
                                                the
                                                > > 180
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > >  
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the glass was
                                                installed
                                                > > with
                                                > >> > a
                                                > >>> > > compound
                                                > >>>> > > > that was very hard and under cold conditions would pinch
                                                the
                                                > >> > lens
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > I removed the white compound one hole at a time and
                                                replaced it
                                                > >> > with
                                                > >>>> > > > silicone which stays soft under all conditions
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > >  
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7 installed in the
                                                > > observatory
                                                > >>> > > right now
                                                > >>>> > > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > >  
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > Michael Downing
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > >  
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > >  
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > >  
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > >   _____
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > >>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:William-
                                                > >>> > > Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Optics%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:Optics%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                                                > >>>> > > > On Behalf Of Dan
                                                > >>>> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                                                > >>>> > > > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > >>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > >>>> > > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > >  
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the other night for
                                                some
                                                > >> > quick
                                                > >>> > > images.
                                                > >>>> > > > The images were
                                                > >>>> > > > short exposures since it was a near full moon along with
                                                the
                                                > >> > fact my
                                                > >>>> > > > observatory is not quite
                                                > >>>> > > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider are not set
                                                up.
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics. Visually
                                                things
                                                > >> > look
                                                > >>> > > fine but I
                                                > >>>> > > > cannot explain
                                                > >>>> > > > why on all the images the stars show dark lanes every 120
                                                > >> > degrees.
                                                > >>> > > I did
                                                > >>>> > > > some research and
                                                > >>>> > > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on evaluating
                                                optics.
                                                > >>> > > Unfortunatley
                                                > >>>> > > > what I have on my
                                                > >>>> > > > images are not discussed in the article. By the process
                                                of
                                                > >>> > > elimination I can
                                                > >>>> > > > tell what they are
                                                > >>>> > > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE. Since the
                                                focus is
                                                > >> > pretty
                                                > >>> > > good I
                                                > >>>> > > > believe that would
                                                > >>>> > > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran, the moon
                                                and m-45.
                                                > >> > All
                                                > >>> > > the star
                                                > >>>> > > > images are
                                                > >>>> > > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They are located
                                                in the
                                                > >> > photos
                                                > >>>> > > > directory under Danny
                                                > >>>> > > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > http://tech.
                                                > >>>> > > > <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                                > >>> > > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                                                > >>>> > > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                                Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>>> > > > The warm room gets built today so I will be able to do
                                                more
                                                > >> > thorough
                                                > >>>> > > > evaluations. If anyone
                                                > >>>> > > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in aberrator
                                                contact me
                                                > >> > off
                                                > >>> > > list and
                                                > >>>> > > > I will email
                                                > >>>> > > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                                                > >>>> > > >
                                                > >>> > >
                                                > >> >
                                                > >
                                                > >  
                                                > >     
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > From the Desk of
                                                > Daniel Andrew Janosick
                                                > 90 Rider Avenue
                                                > Patchogue, NY 11772
                                                >

                                                 
                                                    


                                                From the Desk of
                                                Daniel Andrew Janosick
                                                90 Rider Avenue
                                                Patchogue, NY 11772
                                              • Chris Appleton
                                                ... Hi Dan I know what you mean, it can get real cold just sitting there in the cold even when dressed warm. I am not also too sure when the weather will allow
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Feb 6 8:43 PM
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, danjanos@... wrote:

                                                  Hi Dan

                                                  I know what you mean, it can get real cold just sitting there in the
                                                  cold even when dressed warm. I am not also too sure when the weather
                                                  will allow me to even look through the 132mm let alone do some
                                                  imaging. I bought myself a 2nd mount (CG5GT) for a more portable
                                                  mount for star parties and also for quick peeks when it's too cold to
                                                  open the observatory roof (sometimes freezes up) and use my G11.

                                                  Best regards,

                                                  Chris A

                                                  >
                                                  > Chris,
                                                  > Even with the warm room constructed the wiring is not yet run
                                                  from the
                                                  > warm room to the scopes. And it is too cold to sit outside and play
                                                  around
                                                  > with wires. Maybe tomorrow.
                                                  > danny
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > On 2/6/07 6:58 PM, "Chris Appleton" <denturist89@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , danjanos@ wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Hi Dan
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I hope things work out for you tonight and looking forward to some
                                                  > > images. Weather for me is not co-operating and the temperature
                                                  with
                                                  > > the wind chill (quite windy) is -25C.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Cheers,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Chris A
                                                  > >
                                                  > >> >
                                                  > >> > I am unsure if this is a ³planned² TMB design trait. I viewed
                                                  many
                                                  > > images
                                                  > >> > taken with the TMB 130 ss on helixgate.net and these artifacts
                                                  are
                                                  > > not
                                                  > >> > visible. The main difference between the tmb lens cell and the
                                                  WO
                                                  > > is the tmb
                                                  > >> > is temperature compensated. I am wondering if when a tmb is
                                                  cooled
                                                  > > to
                                                  > >> > ambient the lens cell adjust and the artifacts are gone versus
                                                  a
                                                  > > non-cooled
                                                  > >> > lens cell.
                                                  > >> > Anyhoo my 132mm has been is the observatory for few days at 10
                                                  > > degrees
                                                  > >> > Fahrenheit, tonight I may take a some quick shots with the
                                                  dslr and
                                                  > > the sbig
                                                  > >> > st-2000xm and forward the pics to the group. This time I may
                                                  > > bracket the
                                                  > >> > exposures to see the impact.
                                                  > >> > danny
                                                  > >> >
                                                  > >> > On 2/5/07 9:40 PM, "Chris Appleton" <denturist89@> wrote:
                                                  > >> >
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > >>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > >>> > > <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marc Paradis"
                                                  > >>> > > <marc.paradis@> wrote:
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > > Hi Marc
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > > Good to hear from you on this group. As you know the
                                                  weather has
                                                  > > not
                                                  > >>> > > been the greatest from our location and it's been slow on
                                                  the
                                                  > > RASCAG
                                                  > >>> > > group. Thanks for posting the pictures showing the dark
                                                  marking
                                                  > >>> > > around brighter stars. If it's only showing up around the
                                                  bright
                                                  > >>> > > stars then I can live with it. This does look like a TMB
                                                  trait and
                                                  > >>> > > the FLT 132mm lens was designed by a leading designer 'and
                                                  we all
                                                  > >>> > > know who he is'.
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > > Take care!
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > > Chris A
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>> > >> >
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > Hi Chris,
                                                  > >>>>> > >> >
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > I have the same pattern around bright stars using my
                                                  100mm TMB
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > (really similar to Michael result):
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > http://www.photongrabber.com/html/detail_02.html
                                                  > >>>>> > >> >
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > Similar pattern with 175mm TMB of Bob Anderson:
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > http://www.tpo.ca/M63.htm
                                                  > >>>>> > >> >
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > I am almost tempted to say it is a classic TMB
                                                  artifact...
                                                  > >>>>> > >> >
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > Cheers,
                                                  > >>>>> > >> >
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > Marc
                                                  > >>>>> > >> >
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > >>>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > >>>> > >> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris
                                                  Appleton"
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > <denturist89@> wrote:
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > >>>>>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > >>>>> > >>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com> , "Michael
                                                  Downing"
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > <michael@> wrote:
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Hi Mike
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > I would have never guessed this problem to be
                                                  caused from
                                                  > > using a
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > compound that turned very hard under cold
                                                  temperatures
                                                  > > causing
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > pinched optics "thank you very much" for sharing
                                                  this.
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > I looked at my older images using a WO
                                                  110mm "lens made by
                                                  > > TEC"
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > and a
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Tak FS-60C and there are no dark lines at all in
                                                  the raws.
                                                  > > I live
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > in
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > an area that can get quite cold also, so this
                                                  will be a big
                                                  > > issue
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > for
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > me also with my 132mm.
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > I guess I will also have to change this compound
                                                  to a
                                                  > > silicone
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > type
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > material. Can you please provide details on how to
                                                  > > carefully do
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > this?
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Thanks again!
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Chris A
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > Hi Dan,
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > These dark lines you are seeing in the
                                                  optics are the
                                                  > > mounting
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > points of the
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > lens.
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > I have experienced this with my old tmb-180
                                                  under cold
                                                  > > weather
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > conditions
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > Here is a shot of mine that shows a similar
                                                  problem with
                                                  > > the
                                                  > >>> > > 180
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.HA2.jpg
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > After inspecting my lens I saw that the
                                                  glass was
                                                  > > installed
                                                  > >>> > > with
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > a
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > compound
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > that was very hard and under cold conditions
                                                  would pinch
                                                  > > the
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > lens
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > http://www.astroden.com/lens.jpg
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > I removed the white compound one hole at a
                                                  time and
                                                  > > replaced it
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > with
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > silicone which stays soft under all
                                                  conditions
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > Here is a shot after I made the repairs
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > > http://www.astroden.com/STL6303/TMB180/NGC_2244.Tuneup.jpg
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > What's funny is I have a tmb-203 f7
                                                  installed in the
                                                  > >>> > > observatory
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > right now
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > and it also is showing the pinch marks too
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > Michael Downing
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > www.astroden.com <http://www.astroden.com/>
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > _____
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > >>>>>> > >>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  [mailto:William-
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Optics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Optics%
                                                  40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > >>>>>>> <mailto:Optics%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > On Behalf Of Dan
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:01 AM
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > >>>>>> > >>>> <mailto:William-Optics%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > Subject: [William-Optics] flt-132 mm shots
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > Well gang I finally got the 132 out the
                                                  other night for
                                                  > > some
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > quick
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > images.
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > The images were
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > short exposures since it was a near full
                                                  moon along with
                                                  > > the
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > fact my
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > observatory is not quite
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > yet complete and the computer and autoguider
                                                  are not set
                                                  > > up.
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > Candidly I have some concerns on the optics.
                                                  Visually
                                                  > > things
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > look
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > fine but I
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > cannot explain
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > why on all the images the stars show dark
                                                  lanes every 120
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > degrees.
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > I did
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > some research and
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > found a great article by Tim Trusock on
                                                  evaluating
                                                  > > optics.
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Unfortunatley
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > what I have on my
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > images are not discussed in the article. By
                                                  the process
                                                  > > of
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > elimination I can
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > tell what they are
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > NOT but I cannot ascertain what they ARE.
                                                  Since the
                                                  > > focus is
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > pretty
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > good I
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > believe that would
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > eliminate any spacers concerns.
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > I posted three images in my file, Aldebaran,
                                                  the moon
                                                  > > and m-45.
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > All
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > the star
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > images are
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > unprocessed straight from the camera. They
                                                  are located
                                                  > > in the
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > photos
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > directory under Danny
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > Janosick test shots flt 132
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > http://tech.
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=>
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/William-
                                                  > > Optics/photos/browse/aa21?c=
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > The warm room gets built today so I will be
                                                  able to do
                                                  > > more
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > thorough
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > evaluations. If anyone
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > wants the RAW images unprocess to throw in
                                                  aberrator
                                                  > > contact me
                                                  > >>>>> > >> > off
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > > list and
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > I will email
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > > them to you. Each file is almost 8 megs.
                                                  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> > > >
                                                  > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
                                                  > >>>>> > >> >
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >>> > >
                                                  > >> >
                                                  > >> >
                                                  > >> > From the Desk of
                                                  > >> > Daniel Andrew Janosick
                                                  > >> > 90 Rider Avenue
                                                  > >> > Patchogue, NY 11772
                                                  > >> >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > From the Desk of
                                                  > Daniel Andrew Janosick
                                                  > 90 Rider Avenue
                                                  > Patchogue, NY 11772
                                                  >
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