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Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet

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  • bakersfieldbiker
    Hi all. Well, I kept hearing all these opinions on what the triplet objective actually contained. I heard, OK3, OK4, Fluorite, FPL53, FPL52 and others said, I
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 12, 2006
      Hi all.
      Well, I kept hearing all these opinions on what the triplet objective
      actually contained. I heard, OK3, OK4, Fluorite, FPL53, FPL52 and
      others said, I have no idea!
      So I called William Optics and talked to Ken about it. He informed me
      that the early Megrez Super APO triplets (like mine) were made with
      FPL53, even though the manual states specifically Fluorite.
      Later versions of the Megrez triplets use OK3.
      The reason given for describing them as Fluorite? I was told that some
      manufacturers tended to label FPL53 as Fluorite because it was
      Fluorite-like in performance and application.
      I guess that it is true, but still it does not seem right that a
      scope, any scope, can be sold as a "Fluorite Triplet" and not be made
      with Fluorite.
      There is nothing that can be done I guess, but it still does not sit
      well with me. I know the FPL53 triplet is an excellent performer, but
      it is not Fluorite!
      Not a big deal I am sure, but the principal of the thing. :^<
    • StarCat
      I don t know who Ken is, but from my conversations with WO staff and comments made by the lens designer Thomas M Back; the original Megrez Super APO did
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 12, 2006
        I don't know who "Ken" is, but from my conversations with WO staff and
        comments made by the lens designer Thomas M Back; the original Megrez Super
        APO did indeed use Fluorite.............while the newer revised units
        utilize OK3.

        Ed
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "bakersfieldbiker" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:05 PM
        Subject: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet


        > Hi all.
        > Well, I kept hearing all these opinions on what the triplet objective
        > actually contained. I heard, OK3, OK4, Fluorite, FPL53, FPL52 and
        > others said, I have no idea!
        > So I called William Optics and talked to Ken about it. He informed me
        > that the early Megrez Super APO triplets (like mine) were made with
        > FPL53, even though the manual states specifically Fluorite.
        > Later versions of the Megrez triplets use OK3.
        > The reason given for describing them as Fluorite? I was told that some
        > manufacturers tended to label FPL53 as Fluorite because it was
        > Fluorite-like in performance and application.
        > I guess that it is true, but still it does not seem right that a
        > scope, any scope, can be sold as a "Fluorite Triplet" and not be made
        > with Fluorite.
        > There is nothing that can be done I guess, but it still does not sit
        > well with me. I know the FPL53 triplet is an excellent performer, but
        > it is not Fluorite!
        > Not a big deal I am sure, but the principal of the thing. :^<
        >
        >
        >
        > www.william-optics.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Kurt Casby
        Hi All, Sour Grapes here I suppose, so if it will upset you delete this now! I do not believe there were ever *any* of these objectives sold with a fluorite
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 12, 2006
          Hi All,

          Sour Grapes here I suppose, so if it will upset you delete this now!

          I do not believe there were ever *any* of these objectives sold with a
          fluorite element. If Tom Back says he designed the objective with
          fluorite, I believe him, but both he and Markus Ludes have also stated
          that the objective design was changed.

          I have a William Optics 80mm Fluorite APO, and it does *not* have a
          fluorite element in it! It is a fine scope, and offers very nice views,
          but it is not fluorite.

          I will not buy anything from William Optics again because I don't like
          being lied to. The promotional material I read before purchasing the
          telescope made it very clear that the center element of the triplet
          objective was fluorite. This is *not* marketing hype, it is lying!

          I know that most of you will say it does not matter if the objective is
          made out of ground up Coke bottles, as long as it works well. The scope
          does work well, I would even say it works wonderfully, but that is not
          the point. The point is that I prefer to do business with companies
          that don't lie to me!

          I freely admit that I could be wrong about this, and hope someone will
          point that out if I am. Is there anyone on this group that has one of
          the 80mm Fluorite APOs and a green laser that will testify contrary to
          my assertion? I would be glad to eat crow and apologize!

          Clear Skies,
          Kurt


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "StarCat" <starcat@...>
          To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:20 PM
          Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet


          >I don't know who "Ken" is, but from my conversations with WO staff and
          > comments made by the lens designer Thomas M Back; the original Megrez
          > Super
          > APO did indeed use Fluorite.............while the newer revised units
          > utilize OK3.
          >
          > Ed
        • StarCat
          Kurt, The original did have fluorite and was changed to the OK3(4?).... as acknowledged by TMB and Marcus. Explain of what purpose the green laser would
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 12, 2006
            Kurt,
            The "original" did have fluorite and was changed to the OK3(4?).... as acknowledged by TMB and Marcus.  Explain of what purpose the green laser would serve in verifying fluorite.  I'm at a loss here.
             
             How is it you can state unequivocally that yours is not fluorite?  Do you have an early model or a more recent unit?
             
            Cheers,    Ed
             
            Back in April of 2006
              --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical" <TMBoptical@...> wrote:
              ... LOMO did use my designs on both TMB 80mm lenses, when they had CaF-2 as the middle element.
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Kurt Casby" <Kurt.Casby@...>
            Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:02 PM
            Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet

            > Hi All,
            >
            > Sour Grapes here I suppose, so if it will
            upset you delete this now!
            >
            > I do not believe there were ever
            *any* of these objectives sold with a
            > fluorite element.  If Tom
            Back says he designed the objective with
            > fluorite, I believe him, but
            both he and Markus Ludes have also stated
            > that the objective design was
            changed.
            >
            > I have a William Optics 80mm Fluorite APO, and it does
            *not* have a
            > fluorite element in it!  It is a fine scope, and
            offers very nice views,
            > but it is not fluorite.
            >
            > I will
            not buy anything from William Optics again because I don't like
            > being
            lied to.  The promotional material I read before purchasing the
            >
            telescope made it very clear that the center element of the triplet
            >
            objective was fluorite.  This is *not* marketing hype, it is lying!
            >
            > I know that most of you will say it does not matter if the objective is
            > made out of ground up Coke bottles, as long as it works well.  The
            scope
            > does work well, I would even say it works wonderfully, but that
            is not
            > the point.  The point is that I prefer to do business with
            companies
            > that don't lie to me!
            >
            > I freely admit that I
            could be wrong about this, and hope someone will
            > point that out if I
            am.  Is there anyone on this group that has one of
            > the 80mm
            Fluorite APOs and a green laser that will testify contrary to
            > my
            assertion?  I would be glad to eat crow and apologize!
            >
            >
            Clear Skies,
            > Kurt
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "StarCat" <
            face=Arial size=2>starcat@...>
            >
            To: <
            William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:20 PM
            > Subject:
            Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet
            >
            >
            > >I don't know who "Ken" is, but from my conversations with WO staff
            and
            > > comments made by the lens designer Thomas M Back; the original
            Megrez
            > > Super
            > > APO did indeed use
            Fluorite.............while the newer revised units
            > > utilize
            OK3.
            > >
            > > Ed
            >
            >
            >
            >
                                        
            www.william-optics.com
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            Groups Links
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          • Kurt Casby
            Ed, Please refer to message #8164 dated March 25, 2006. How do I know if I have an early model or a more recent unit ? In that message I provided all the
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 12, 2006
              Ed,

              Please refer to message #8164 dated March 25, 2006. How do I know if I
              have an "early" model or a "more recent unit"? In that message I
              provided all the markings on the scope I could find.

              That thread drifted off to discussing the newer "Fluorite Doublet"
              (which is not fluorite :-) ), so in message #8253 dated March 30, 2006 I
              asked again for an answer. That same day, in message #8255, William
              Optics answered with no mention of any early versus later models stating
              that they were using OK3. That is one of the reasons I do not believe
              *any* of them were fluorite.

              By shining a green laser through the objective (being careful of one's
              eyes of course) you can easily tell if there is a fluorite element. The
              laser disappears as it passes through the fluorite (one of the
              characteristics of fluorite is the low scatter). If the laser does not
              disappear, it is not fluorite. I have several scope that *do* have
              fluorite elements, and this test is simple and effective.

              I want to apologize to everyone on the group for bringing this up again,
              but it must have 'hit a nerve', sorry. I did not and do not want to
              start another long thread about this, and should have just kept my mouth
              shut. Sorry again. I will not post further on this, I promise, except
              to answer any specific questions asked specifically of me.

              I would again like to emphasize that the scope works wonderfully, and
              that I am not disappointed with it. Any yes, I do get out and look
              through these things occasionally!

              Clear Skies,
              Apologies to all,
              Kurt



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "StarCat" <starcat@...>
              To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:28 PM
              Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet


              Kurt,
              The "original" did have fluorite and was changed to the OK3(4?).... as
              acknowledged by TMB and Marcus. Explain of what purpose the green laser
              would serve in verifying fluorite. I'm at a loss here.

              How is it you can state unequivocally that yours is not fluorite? Do
              you have an early model or a more recent unit?

              Cheers, Ed

              Back in April of 2006
              --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical" <TMBoptical@...>
              wrote:
              ... LOMO did use my designs on both TMB 80mm lenses, when they had
              CaF-2 as the middle element.
            • gimmi
              Look, have a hot tea and relax. You DO NOT WANT real fluorite in your telescope: natural fluorite is a nasty bugger, with impurity problems, prone to aging,
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 12, 2006
                Look, have a hot tea and relax. You DO NOT WANT real fluorite in your
                telescope: natural fluorite is a nasty bugger, with impurity problems, prone
                to aging, damaged by humidity and does not age well. Special glasses have
                dispersion characteristics similar to fluorite without the cons. Furthermore
                they are also very expensive, so don't feel cheated.

                For years it was a well known fact in the industry that the Fluo logo was
                signifying the use of special glass with extraordinary dispersion. I can see
                why you may feel mislead (you are right in this respects, but, as I said,
                the information has been available for years) but your worries are not
                substantiated by a defect in performance.

                I have a "fluo" apo triplet that I use exclusively for imaging and it is an
                incredible lens. Just incredible.

                Enjoy your telecope (and might the weather clear!!!)


                -----Messaggio originale-----
                Da: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-Optics@yahoogroups.com]
                Per conto di Kurt Casby
                Inviato: mercoledì 13 dicembre 2006 3.02
                A: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                Oggetto: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet

                Hi All,

                Sour Grapes here I suppose, so if it will upset you delete this now!

                I do not believe there were ever *any* of these objectives sold with a
                fluorite element. If Tom Back says he designed the objective with
                fluorite, I believe him, but both he and Markus Ludes have also stated
                that the objective design was changed.

                I have a William Optics 80mm Fluorite APO, and it does *not* have a
                fluorite element in it! It is a fine scope, and offers very nice views,
                but it is not fluorite.

                I will not buy anything from William Optics again because I don't like
                being lied to. The promotional material I read before purchasing the
                telescope made it very clear that the center element of the triplet
                objective was fluorite. This is *not* marketing hype, it is lying!

                I know that most of you will say it does not matter if the objective is
                made out of ground up Coke bottles, as long as it works well. The scope
                does work well, I would even say it works wonderfully, but that is not
                the point. The point is that I prefer to do business with companies
                that don't lie to me!

                I freely admit that I could be wrong about this, and hope someone will
                point that out if I am. Is there anyone on this group that has one of
                the 80mm Fluorite APOs and a green laser that will testify contrary to
                my assertion? I would be glad to eat crow and apologize!

                Clear Skies,
                Kurt


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "StarCat" <starcat@...>
                To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:20 PM
                Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet


                >I don't know who "Ken" is, but from my conversations with WO staff and
                > comments made by the lens designer Thomas M Back; the original Megrez
                > Super
                > APO did indeed use Fluorite.............while the newer revised units
                > utilize OK3.
                >
                > Ed



                www.william-optics.com
                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Hans K. Aspenberg
                ... If found the following statement on another discussion group, but cannot verify this since I don not have a scope to test :-) There is a very simple test
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 12, 2006
                  StarCat wrote:

                  > The "original" did have fluorite and was changed to the OK3(4?).... as
                  > acknowledged by TMB and Marcus. Explain of what purpose the green laser
                  > would serve in verifying fluorite. I'm at a loss here.

                  If found the following statement on another discussion group, but cannot
                  verify this since I don not have a scope to test :-)

                  "There is a very simple test to see if a lens element is true fluorite
                  (CaF2) - shine a green laser through it. In real glass you can see the
                  beam in the lens element. In fluorite the beam is invisible within the
                  material."

                  Best, Hans
                • bakersfieldbiker
                  I am going to test my Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet (Fluorite according to the manual) with a green laser. I have already tested it with a red laser and it
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 13, 2006
                    I am going to test my Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet (Fluorite
                    according to the manual) with a green laser. I have already tested it
                    with a red laser and it gave very interesting results. I have asked
                    many people what to make of the results, but no one seems to have an
                    answer to it.

                    With a red laser, the center element is lighted and the front and rear
                    element is completely clear except for a red spot where the beam
                    enters the face of the first lens and exits the rear face of the rear
                    lens. There is no beam within the front and rear element.
                    The same test on a TEC 140 (FPL53 element) shows the center and both
                    front and rear elements (lighted with the laser beam) as the beam
                    passes through, totally different than the Megress 80mm triplet which
                    does not show the front and rear element.

                    I have pictures I can post of this, but I am waiting to borrow a green
                    laser to see how that shows the objective.

                    At this time, I am not certain if my objective is FPL53, OK3 or
                    Fluorite! It seems the story is different depending on who tells it.
                    The man at William Optics today indeed stated it was FPL53, but there
                    is nowhere a statement to this effect, on line or in print.

                    This is the only statementby William Yang on the Megrez 80mm Triplet,
                    but it pertains to the newer ones, not the 2004 model.
                    Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/message/8255
                    " Megrez 80 F/6 super APO (fluorite triplet by LOMO) are using OK3
                    fluorite ( you may call it Russian fluoro-SD/ED)."
                    William Yang

                    OK3 is not Fluorite and is actually a lessor grade of glass below
                    FPL51 in the catalogs and is rated below FPL51 on dispersion. To call
                    OK3 a Fluorite is downright ridiculous. In fact it is about as silly
                    as calling the Megrez 80mm f/6 a Fluorite Triplet!

                    It matters not what they wish to call it, there is either Fluorite
                    CaF2 or there is glass, but there is no Fluor-SD/ED glass, though some
                    crown is described as Fluor-Crown, but those are mating elements as
                    far as I know.

                    Floyd

                    --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Hans K. Aspenberg"
                    <hans.aspenberg@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > StarCat wrote:
                    >
                    > > The "original" did have fluorite and was changed to the
                    OK3(4?).... as
                    > > acknowledged by TMB and Marcus. Explain of what purpose the green
                    laser
                    > > would serve in verifying fluorite. I'm at a loss here.
                    >
                    > If found the following statement on another discussion group, but
                    cannot
                    > verify this since I don not have a scope to test :-)
                    >
                    > "There is a very simple test to see if a lens element is true fluorite
                    > (CaF2) - shine a green laser through it. In real glass you can see the
                    > beam in the lens element. In fluorite the beam is invisible within the
                    > material."
                    >
                    > Best, Hans
                    >
                  • bakersfieldbiker
                    Ok, I do not need to test my objective because WO responded to an email concerning it. They stated that the objective was made with OK4. So that is the ED
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 13, 2006
                      Ok, I do not need to test my objective because WO responded to an
                      email concerning it.
                      They stated that the objective was made with OK4. So that is the ED
                      glass used. There is apparently no doubt about this. Fluorite was
                      never used in these triplets.
                      Floyd

                      --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, bakersfieldbiker <no_reply@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > I am going to test my Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet (Fluorite
                      > according to the manual) with a green laser. I have already tested it
                      > with a red laser and it gave very interesting results. I have asked
                      > many people what to make of the results, but no one seems to have an
                      > answer to it.
                      >
                      > With a red laser, the center element is lighted and the front and rear
                      > element is completely clear except for a red spot where the beam
                      > enters the face of the first lens and exits the rear face of the rear
                      > lens. There is no beam within the front and rear element.
                      > The same test on a TEC 140 (FPL53 element) shows the center and both
                      > front and rear elements (lighted with the laser beam) as the beam
                      > passes through, totally different than the Megress 80mm triplet which
                      > does not show the front and rear element.
                      >
                      > I have pictures I can post of this, but I am waiting to borrow a green
                      > laser to see how that shows the objective.
                      >
                      > At this time, I am not certain if my objective is FPL53, OK3 or
                      > Fluorite! It seems the story is different depending on who tells it.
                      > The man at William Optics today indeed stated it was FPL53, but there
                      > is nowhere a statement to this effect, on line or in print.
                      >
                      > This is the only statementby William Yang on the Megrez 80mm Triplet,
                      > but it pertains to the newer ones, not the 2004 model.
                      > Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/message/8255
                      > " Megrez 80 F/6 super APO (fluorite triplet by LOMO) are using OK3
                      > fluorite ( you may call it Russian fluoro-SD/ED)."
                      > William Yang
                      >
                      > OK3 is not Fluorite and is actually a lessor grade of glass below
                      > FPL51 in the catalogs and is rated below FPL51 on dispersion. To call
                      > OK3 a Fluorite is downright ridiculous. In fact it is about as silly
                      > as calling the Megrez 80mm f/6 a Fluorite Triplet!
                      >
                      > It matters not what they wish to call it, there is either Fluorite
                      > CaF2 or there is glass, but there is no Fluor-SD/ED glass, though some
                      > crown is described as Fluor-Crown, but those are mating elements as
                      > far as I know.
                      >
                      > Floyd
                      >
                      > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Hans K. Aspenberg"
                      > <hans.aspenberg@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > StarCat wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > The "original" did have fluorite and was changed to the
                      > OK3(4?).... as
                      > > > acknowledged by TMB and Marcus. Explain of what purpose the green
                      > laser
                      > > > would serve in verifying fluorite. I'm at a loss here.
                      > >
                      > > If found the following statement on another discussion group, but
                      > cannot
                      > > verify this since I don not have a scope to test :-)
                      > >
                      > > "There is a very simple test to see if a lens element is true
                      fluorite
                      > > (CaF2) - shine a green laser through it. In real glass you can see
                      the
                      > > beam in the lens element. In fluorite the beam is invisible within
                      the
                      > > material."
                      > >
                      > > Best, Hans
                      > >
                      >
                    • StarCat
                      Kurt, If you re a member of the Yahoo TMBOptical group, check out message numbers 30706 and 30707 back in April of 2006 wherein Thomas states what is Caf2 or
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 13, 2006
                        Kurt,
                        If you're a member of the Yahoo TMBOptical group, check out message
                        numbers 30706 and 30707 back in April of 2006 wherein Thomas states what is
                        Caf2 or other.

                        Cheers, Ed


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Kurt Casby" <Kurt.Casby@...>
                        To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:06 AM
                        Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet


                        > Ed,
                        >
                        > Please refer to message #8164 dated March 25, 2006. How do I know if I
                        > have an "early" model or a "more recent unit"? In that message I
                        > provided all the markings on the scope I could find.
                        >
                        > That thread drifted off to discussing the newer "Fluorite Doublet"
                        > (which is not fluorite :-) ), so in message #8253 dated March 30, 2006 I
                        > asked again for an answer. That same day, in message #8255, William
                        > Optics answered with no mention of any early versus later models stating
                        > that they were using OK3. That is one of the reasons I do not believe
                        > *any* of them were fluorite.
                        >
                        > By shining a green laser through the objective (being careful of one's
                        > eyes of course) you can easily tell if there is a fluorite element. The
                        > laser disappears as it passes through the fluorite (one of the
                        > characteristics of fluorite is the low scatter). If the laser does not
                        > disappear, it is not fluorite. I have several scope that *do* have
                        > fluorite elements, and this test is simple and effective.
                        >
                        > I want to apologize to everyone on the group for bringing this up again,
                        > but it must have 'hit a nerve', sorry. I did not and do not want to
                        > start another long thread about this, and should have just kept my mouth
                        > shut. Sorry again. I will not post further on this, I promise, except
                        > to answer any specific questions asked specifically of me.
                        >
                        > I would again like to emphasize that the scope works wonderfully, and
                        > that I am not disappointed with it. Any yes, I do get out and look
                        > through these things occasionally!
                        >
                        > Clear Skies,
                        > Apologies to all,
                        > Kurt
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "StarCat" <starcat@...>
                        > To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:28 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet
                        >
                        >
                        > Kurt,
                        > The "original" did have fluorite and was changed to the OK3(4?).... as
                        > acknowledged by TMB and Marcus. Explain of what purpose the green laser
                        > would serve in verifying fluorite. I'm at a loss here.
                        >
                        > How is it you can state unequivocally that yours is not fluorite? Do
                        > you have an early model or a more recent unit?
                        >
                        > Cheers, Ed
                        >
                        > Back in April of 2006
                        > --- In tmboptical@yahoogroups.com, "tmboptical" <TMBoptical@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > ... LOMO did use my designs on both TMB 80mm lenses, when they had
                        > CaF-2 as the middle element.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > www.william-optics.com
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Kurt Casby
                        Ed, Message 30706 had nothing to do with this. Message 30707 has TMB saying that I think I know what happened here. . I stand by what I said: I do not
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 13, 2006
                          Ed,

                          Message 30706 had nothing to do with this.

                          Message 30707 has TMB saying that "I think I know what happened here.".

                          I stand by what I said: I do not believe that any of the William Optics
                          80mm Fluorite Triplet APOs ever had a fluorite element.

                          If you followed that entire thread at the time, as I did, then you know
                          the ending answer was "What does it matter, its a great scope!" along
                          with some vague suggestions that maybe they used TMBs design with
                          fluorite and then switched to ED glass.

                          Check out message #12437 here in the WO group.

                          I wish I had kept my big mouth shut! I agree that we should be talking
                          about actual performance rather than glass or fluorite. If you would
                          like to continue this conversation, let us take it off list! I *really*
                          did not want to start another long thread about this, and honestly wish
                          I had not posted.

                          Clear Skies,
                          Again, apologies to all,
                          Kurt


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "StarCat" <starcat@...>
                          To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:39 PM
                          Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet


                          > Kurt,
                          > If you're a member of the Yahoo TMBOptical group, check out
                          > message
                          > numbers 30706 and 30707 back in April of 2006 wherein Thomas states
                          > what is
                          > Caf2 or other.
                          >
                          > Cheers, Ed
                        • StarCat
                          Sorry that should have been 30705 & 30707 Cheers, Ed ... From: Kurt Casby To: Sent: Wednesday,
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 13, 2006
                            Sorry that should have been 30705 & 30707

                            Cheers, Ed



                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Kurt Casby" <Kurt.Casby@...>
                            To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:10 PM
                            Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet


                            > Ed,
                            >
                            > Message 30706 had nothing to do with this.
                            >
                            > Message 30707 has TMB saying that "I think I know what happened here.".
                            >
                            > I stand by what I said: I do not believe that any of the William Optics
                            > 80mm Fluorite Triplet APOs ever had a fluorite element.
                            >
                            > If you followed that entire thread at the time, as I did, then you know
                            > the ending answer was "What does it matter, its a great scope!" along
                            > with some vague suggestions that maybe they used TMBs design with
                            > fluorite and then switched to ED glass.
                            >
                            > Check out message #12437 here in the WO group.
                            >
                            > I wish I had kept my big mouth shut! I agree that we should be talking
                            > about actual performance rather than glass or fluorite. If you would
                            > like to continue this conversation, let us take it off list! I *really*
                            > did not want to start another long thread about this, and honestly wish
                            > I had not posted.
                            >
                            > Clear Skies,
                            > Again, apologies to all,
                            > Kurt
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "StarCat" <starcat@...>
                            > To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:39 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [William-Optics] Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet
                            >
                            >
                            > > Kurt,
                            > > If you're a member of the Yahoo TMBOptical group, check out
                            > > message
                            > > numbers 30706 and 30707 back in April of 2006 wherein Thomas states
                            > > what is
                            > > Caf2 or other.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers, Ed
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > www.william-optics.com
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • williamopticsmarketing
                            Well, not to nitpick but technically we did NOT say that calcium fluorite was never used in the 80mm TMB triplets; we said that your lens is OK4 inside ...
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 13, 2006
                              Well, not to nitpick but technically we did NOT say that calcium
                              fluorite was never used in the 80mm TMB triplets; we said that your
                              lens is "OK4 inside"... ;-) As you know, we BUY these lenses, we
                              need to believe what they tell us (told us). But honestly we do not
                              care much what glasses is used. We like them for how they perform!

                              In other words, the only person that can authoritatively speak about
                              this is either Markus or someone from LOMO.


                              Daniel


                              --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, bakersfieldbiker
                              <no_reply@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Ok, I do not need to test my objective because WO responded to an
                              > email concerning it.
                              > They stated that the objective was made with OK4. So that is the ED
                              > glass used. There is apparently no doubt about this. Fluorite was
                              > never used in these triplets.
                              > Floyd
                              >
                              > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, bakersfieldbiker <no_reply@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I am going to test my Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet (Fluorite
                              > > according to the manual) with a green laser. I have already
                              tested it
                              > > with a red laser and it gave very interesting results. I have
                              asked
                              > > many people what to make of the results, but no one seems to have
                              an
                              > > answer to it.
                              > >
                              > > With a red laser, the center element is lighted and the front and
                              rear
                              > > element is completely clear except for a red spot where the beam
                              > > enters the face of the first lens and exits the rear face of the
                              rear
                              > > lens. There is no beam within the front and rear element.
                              > > The same test on a TEC 140 (FPL53 element) shows the center and
                              both
                              > > front and rear elements (lighted with the laser beam) as the beam
                              > > passes through, totally different than the Megress 80mm triplet
                              which
                              > > does not show the front and rear element.
                              > >
                              > > I have pictures I can post of this, but I am waiting to borrow a
                              green
                              > > laser to see how that shows the objective.
                              > >
                              > > At this time, I am not certain if my objective is FPL53, OK3 or
                              > > Fluorite! It seems the story is different depending on who tells
                              it.
                              > > The man at William Optics today indeed stated it was FPL53, but
                              there
                              > > is nowhere a statement to this effect, on line or in print.
                              > >
                              > > This is the only statementby William Yang on the Megrez 80mm
                              Triplet,
                              > > but it pertains to the newer ones, not the 2004 model.
                              > > Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/William-Optics/message/8255
                              > > " Megrez 80 F/6 super APO (fluorite triplet by LOMO) are using OK3
                              > > fluorite ( you may call it Russian fluoro-SD/ED)."
                              > > William Yang
                              > >
                              > > OK3 is not Fluorite and is actually a lessor grade of glass below
                              > > FPL51 in the catalogs and is rated below FPL51 on dispersion. To
                              call
                              > > OK3 a Fluorite is downright ridiculous. In fact it is about as
                              silly
                              > > as calling the Megrez 80mm f/6 a Fluorite Triplet!
                              > >
                              > > It matters not what they wish to call it, there is either Fluorite
                              > > CaF2 or there is glass, but there is no Fluor-SD/ED glass, though
                              some
                              > > crown is described as Fluor-Crown, but those are mating elements
                              as
                              > > far as I know.
                              > >
                              > > Floyd
                              > >
                              > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Hans K. Aspenberg"
                              > > <hans.aspenberg@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > StarCat wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > The "original" did have fluorite and was changed to the
                              > > OK3(4?).... as
                              > > > > acknowledged by TMB and Marcus. Explain of what purpose the
                              green
                              > > laser
                              > > > > would serve in verifying fluorite. I'm at a loss here.
                              > > >
                              > > > If found the following statement on another discussion group,
                              but
                              > > cannot
                              > > > verify this since I don not have a scope to test :-)
                              > > >
                              > > > "There is a very simple test to see if a lens element is true
                              > fluorite
                              > > > (CaF2) - shine a green laser through it. In real glass you can
                              see
                              > the
                              > > > beam in the lens element. In fluorite the beam is invisible
                              within
                              > the
                              > > > material."
                              > > >
                              > > > Best, Hans
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • sam coalier
                              This topic is getting old and has been up many times for debate. Look, the reality is if real calcium fluorite was used in the making of this scope, which I
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 14, 2006
                                This topic is getting old and has been up many times for debate.  Look, the reality is if real calcium fluorite was used in the making of this scope, which I do not think FPL-53 or 51 is, it would almost double the cost.  I have the 80 FD, and if they had advertised it as something different but with the same glass I would have still not blinked an eye and purchased it.  These are great scopes at a great price.  Lets argue about something else.

                                bakersfieldbiker <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                Ok, I do not need to test my objective because WO responded to an
                                email concerning it.
                                They stated that the objective was made with OK4. So that is the ED
                                glass used. There is apparently no doubt about this. Fluorite was
                                never used in these triplets.
                                Floyd

                                --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, bakersfieldbiker <no_reply@.. .>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > I am going to test my Megrez 80mm Super APO Triplet (Fluorite
                                > according to the manual) with a green laser. I have already tested it
                                > with a red laser and it gave very interesting results. I have asked
                                > many people what to make of the results, but no one seems to have an
                                > answer to it.
                                >
                                > With a red laser, the center element is lighted and the front and rear
                                > element is completely clear except for a red spot where the beam
                                > enters the face of the first lens and exits the rear face of the rear
                                > lens. There is no beam within the front and rear element.
                                > The same test on a TEC 140 (FPL53 element) shows the center and both
                                > front and rear elements (lighted with the laser beam) as the beam
                                > passes through, totally different than the Megress 80mm triplet which
                                > does not show the front and rear element.
                                >
                                > I have pictures I can post of this, but I am waiting to borrow a green
                                > laser to see how that shows the objective.
                                >
                                > At this time, I am not certain if my objective is FPL53, OK3 or
                                > Fluorite! It seems the story is different depending on who tells it.
                                > The man at William Optics today indeed stated it was FPL53, but there
                                > is nowhere a statement to this effect, on line or in print.
                                >
                                > This is the only statementby William Yang on the Megrez 80mm Triplet,
                                > but it pertains to the newer ones, not the 2004 model.
                                > Http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/William- Optics/message/ 8255
                                > " Megrez 80 F/6 super APO (fluorite triplet by LOMO) are using OK3
                                > fluorite ( you may call it Russian fluoro-SD/ED) ."
                                > William Yang
                                >
                                > OK3 is not Fluorite and is actually a lessor grade of glass below
                                > FPL51 in the catalogs and is rated below FPL51 on dispersion. To call
                                > OK3 a Fluorite is downright ridiculous. In fact it is about as silly
                                > as calling the Megrez 80mm f/6 a Fluorite Triplet!
                                >
                                > It matters not what they wish to call it, there is either Fluorite
                                > CaF2 or there is glass, but there is no Fluor-SD/ED glass, though some
                                > crown is described as Fluor-Crown, but those are mating elements as
                                > far as I know.
                                >
                                > Floyd
                                >
                                > --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, "Hans K. Aspenberg"
                                > <hans.aspenberg@ > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > StarCat wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > The "original" did have fluorite and was changed to the
                                > OK3(4?).... as
                                > > > acknowledged by TMB and Marcus. Explain of what purpose the green
                                > laser
                                > > > would serve in verifying fluorite. I'm at a loss here.
                                > >
                                > > If found the following statement on another discussion group, but
                                > cannot
                                > > verify this since I don not have a scope to test :-)
                                > >
                                > > "There is a very simple test to see if a lens element is true
                                fluorite
                                > > (CaF2) - shine a green laser through it. In real glass you can see
                                the
                                > > beam in the lens element. In fluorite the beam is invisible within
                                the
                                > > material."
                                > >
                                > > Best, Hans
                                > >
                                >


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