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RE: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80

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  • Jandorf, Hal (NAVAIR)
    Hi Mike, I ll buy your ZENITHSTAR 80...WithOUT the lens. What will you sell it for? I had a Zenithstar 80 (achromat doublet) and I apograded it with the
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
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      Hi Mike,
       
      I'll buy your ZENITHSTAR 80...WithOUT the lens.
      What will you sell it for?
       
      I had a Zenithstar 80 (achromat doublet) and I apograded it with the fluorite doublet.
      I still have the original achromat/cell. I think the original was great for sharpness and contrast. I took photos of the March 29th Eclipse this year and the photos using that lens/scope and the images were stunning. For observing, I could push the telescope to well over the magnification limit for an 80mm telescope for close double star observing and planets. The only problem was slight chromatic abberation. Otherwise, the scope was great! A winner.
       
         So, now I have a great 80mm achromat sitting in a box, waiting for a tube. What price for your scope? I want first dibs!   --Hal
      -----Original Message-----
      From: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:William-Optics@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of m0bius
      Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:26 AM
      To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80

      Such enthusiasm, I like to see happy people :)
      Thank you for the replies.

      Let's recap:
      Objective lens loose in cell
      Lens sharp to only 80x
      Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it

      Replies:
      1 - APO-grade the scope
      2 - APO-grade the scope
      3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)

      Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
      scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope but I
      don't think it "cuts the mustard".

      How tight should the Objective Lens be in the lens holder? If its too
      tight could it cause bad images?

      Can I take apart the focuser to remove the metal shavings (its pretty
      rough)? Any directions to do that?

      Is 80x (3mm-6mm Nagler zoom at the 6mm setting) all the more
      magnification I should expect from this scope?

      Thank you,
      Mike

      --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, "williamopticsmarke ting"
      <williamopticsmarke ting@...> wrote:
      >
      > Congratulations to Mike, and if you take astrophotography, try
      > your "beginner's luck" by submitting to Astronomy or S&T!! ;-)
      > I am positive that even with the little ZS80 you can do wonders; just
      > check out what people took with this scope!
      >
      > http://tinyurl. com/qy6cs
      >
      > 40 wonderful photos!
      >
      > As other recommened, I strongly recommend an APOgrade Package Upgrade
      > for the future!
      >
      > http://www.william- optics.com/ wowebs/products. htm
      >
      > --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, m0bius <no_reply@> wrote:
      > >
      > > It Must be beginners luck? I feel fortunate to have won a Williams
      > > Optics Zenithstar 80 at the Shingletown Star Party raffle!
      > > http://www.shinglet ownstarparty. org/
      > >
      > > A fun little guy, so cute ya just wanna pinch it's cheeks. I managed
      > > to get two great nights under mag 7 skies with this little
      > refractor.
      > > It really is fun exploring the star fields with almost 5 degrees
      > fov.
      > > The sharpness wasn't too bad if you kept it under 80x.
      > >
      > > The price was right [free], but I was little disappointed with the
      > > optics. After I arrived back at home I noticed the lens cell
      > > rattled... the cemented doublet was loose in the cell! A little
      > > surgery on the cell makes for a little bit nicer image now
      > > [disassembly of the dew shield, cell and baffles]. It's not an APO
      > or
      > > even a 'semi-apo' by any standard, but what can you expect for an F6
      > > achromat?
      > >
      > > The rotating focuser is a nice feature. I've noticed that there are
      > > many rough sports as you rotate the focuser. It feels a bit like
      > > little metal shavings in the 'race'.
      > >
      > > Overall I'm pretty happy especially considering the price!
      > > I'm not too sure that I will keep this scope very long, but it's
      > been
      > > an education as to what 80mm can do with a very dark sky - not
      > > disappointing at all.
      > >
      > > I wonder how the Stellarvue 80mm scopes compare?
      > > Anyone done a side-by-side?
      > >
      > >
      > > - Mike R.
      > > Sacramento, CA
      > >
      >

    • Richard Ozer
      Mike, Contact me off list regarding that scope. It s under warranty (and originated from a local Bay Area vendor). You shouldn t have to be taking care of
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
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        Mike,

        Contact me off list regarding that scope. It's under warranty (and
        originated from a local Bay Area vendor). You shouldn't have to be taking
        care of these problems (or figuring them out) without direct input from the
        vendor or from WO.

        Rich Ozer -- SSP
        rozer@...

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "m0bius" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:25 AM
        Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80


        > Such enthusiasm, I like to see happy people :)
        > Thank you for the replies.
        >
        > Let's recap:
        > Objective lens loose in cell
        > Lens sharp to only 80x
        > Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it
        >
        > Replies:
        > 1 - APO-grade the scope
        > 2 - APO-grade the scope
        > 3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)
        >
        > Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
        > scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope but I
        > don't think it "cuts the mustard".
        >
        > How tight should the Objective Lens be in the lens holder? If its too
        > tight could it cause bad images?
        >
        > Can I take apart the focuser to remove the metal shavings (its pretty
        > rough)? Any directions to do that?
        >
        > Is 80x (3mm-6mm Nagler zoom at the 6mm setting) all the more
        > magnification I should expect from this scope?
        >
        >
        > Thank you,
        > Mike
        >
        >
        > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "williamopticsmarketing"
        > <williamopticsmarketing@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Congratulations to Mike, and if you take astrophotography, try
        >> your "beginner's luck" by submitting to Astronomy or S&T!! ;-)
        >> I am positive that even with the little ZS80 you can do wonders; just
        >> check out what people took with this scope!
        >>
        >> http://tinyurl.com/qy6cs
        >>
        >> 40 wonderful photos!
        >>
        >> As other recommened, I strongly recommend an APOgrade Package Upgrade
        >> for the future!
        >>
        >> http://www.william-optics.com/wowebs/products.htm
        >>
        >> --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, m0bius <no_reply@> wrote:
        >> >
        >> > It Must be beginners luck? I feel fortunate to have won a Williams
        >> > Optics Zenithstar 80 at the Shingletown Star Party raffle!
        >> > http://www.shingletownstarparty.org/
        >> >
        >> > A fun little guy, so cute ya just wanna pinch it's cheeks. I managed
        >> > to get two great nights under mag 7 skies with this little
        >> refractor.
        >> > It really is fun exploring the star fields with almost 5 degrees
        >> fov.
        >> > The sharpness wasn't too bad if you kept it under 80x.
        >> >
        >> > The price was right [free], but I was little disappointed with the
        >> > optics. After I arrived back at home I noticed the lens cell
        >> > rattled... the cemented doublet was loose in the cell! A little
        >> > surgery on the cell makes for a little bit nicer image now
        >> > [disassembly of the dew shield, cell and baffles]. It's not an APO
        >> or
        >> > even a 'semi-apo' by any standard, but what can you expect for an F6
        >> > achromat?
        >> >
        >> > The rotating focuser is a nice feature. I've noticed that there are
        >> > many rough sports as you rotate the focuser. It feels a bit like
        >> > little metal shavings in the 'race'.
        >> >
        >> > Overall I'm pretty happy especially considering the price!
        >> > I'm not too sure that I will keep this scope very long, but it's
        >> been
        >> > an education as to what 80mm can do with a very dark sky - not
        >> > disappointing at all.
        >> >
        >> > I wonder how the Stellarvue 80mm scopes compare?
        >> > Anyone done a side-by-side?
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > - Mike R.
        >> > Sacramento, CA
        >> >
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > www.william-optics.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • m0bius
        Thanks Rich, I ve sent you a private message. - Mike ... taking ... from the ... managed ... an F6
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
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          Thanks Rich,
          I've sent you a private message.

          - Mike


          --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Ozer" <rozer@...> wrote:
          >
          > Mike,
          >
          > Contact me off list regarding that scope. It's under warranty (and
          > originated from a local Bay Area vendor). You shouldn't have to be
          taking
          > care of these problems (or figuring them out) without direct input
          from the
          > vendor or from WO.
          >
          > Rich Ozer -- SSP
          > rozer@...
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "m0bius" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
          > To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:25 AM
          > Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80
          >
          >
          > > Such enthusiasm, I like to see happy people :)
          > > Thank you for the replies.
          > >
          > > Let's recap:
          > > Objective lens loose in cell
          > > Lens sharp to only 80x
          > > Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it
          > >
          > > Replies:
          > > 1 - APO-grade the scope
          > > 2 - APO-grade the scope
          > > 3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)
          > >
          > > Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
          > > scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope but I
          > > don't think it "cuts the mustard".
          > >
          > > How tight should the Objective Lens be in the lens holder? If its too
          > > tight could it cause bad images?
          > >
          > > Can I take apart the focuser to remove the metal shavings (its pretty
          > > rough)? Any directions to do that?
          > >
          > > Is 80x (3mm-6mm Nagler zoom at the 6mm setting) all the more
          > > magnification I should expect from this scope?
          > >
          > >
          > > Thank you,
          > > Mike
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "williamopticsmarketing"
          > > <williamopticsmarketing@> wrote:
          > >>
          > >> Congratulations to Mike, and if you take astrophotography, try
          > >> your "beginner's luck" by submitting to Astronomy or S&T!! ;-)
          > >> I am positive that even with the little ZS80 you can do wonders; just
          > >> check out what people took with this scope!
          > >>
          > >> http://tinyurl.com/qy6cs
          > >>
          > >> 40 wonderful photos!
          > >>
          > >> As other recommened, I strongly recommend an APOgrade Package Upgrade
          > >> for the future!
          > >>
          > >> http://www.william-optics.com/wowebs/products.htm
          > >>
          > >> --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, m0bius <no_reply@> wrote:
          > >> >
          > >> > It Must be beginners luck? I feel fortunate to have won a Williams
          > >> > Optics Zenithstar 80 at the Shingletown Star Party raffle!
          > >> > http://www.shingletownstarparty.org/
          > >> >
          > >> > A fun little guy, so cute ya just wanna pinch it's cheeks. I
          managed
          > >> > to get two great nights under mag 7 skies with this little
          > >> refractor.
          > >> > It really is fun exploring the star fields with almost 5 degrees
          > >> fov.
          > >> > The sharpness wasn't too bad if you kept it under 80x.
          > >> >
          > >> > The price was right [free], but I was little disappointed with the
          > >> > optics. After I arrived back at home I noticed the lens cell
          > >> > rattled... the cemented doublet was loose in the cell! A little
          > >> > surgery on the cell makes for a little bit nicer image now
          > >> > [disassembly of the dew shield, cell and baffles]. It's not an APO
          > >> or
          > >> > even a 'semi-apo' by any standard, but what can you expect for
          an F6
          > >> > achromat?
          > >> >
          > >> > The rotating focuser is a nice feature. I've noticed that there are
          > >> > many rough sports as you rotate the focuser. It feels a bit like
          > >> > little metal shavings in the 'race'.
          > >> >
          > >> > Overall I'm pretty happy especially considering the price!
          > >> > I'm not too sure that I will keep this scope very long, but it's
          > >> been
          > >> > an education as to what 80mm can do with a very dark sky - not
          > >> > disappointing at all.
          > >> >
          > >> > I wonder how the Stellarvue 80mm scopes compare?
          > >> > Anyone done a side-by-side?
          > >> >
          > >> >
          > >> > - Mike R.
          > >> > Sacramento, CA
          > >> >
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > www.william-optics.com
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Scott Walker
          ... From: m0bius To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80 Such
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: m0bius
            Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:25 AM
            Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80

            Such enthusiasm, I like to see happy people :)
            Thank you for the replies.

            Let's recap:
            Objective lens loose in cell
            Lens sharp to only 80x
            Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it

            Replies:
            1 - APO-grade the scope
            2 - APO-grade the scope
            3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)

            Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
            scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope but I
            don't think it "cuts the mustard".

            How tight should the Objective Lens be in the lens holder? If its too
            tight could it cause bad images?

            Can I take apart the focuser to remove the metal shavings (its pretty
            rough)? Any directions to do that?

            Is 80x (3mm-6mm Nagler zoom at the 6mm setting) all the more
            magnification I should expect from this scope?

            Thank you,
            Mike

            --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, "williamopticsmarke ting"
            <williamopticsmarke ting@...> wrote:
            >
            > Congratulations to Mike, and if you take astrophotography, try
            > your "beginner's luck" by submitting to Astronomy or S&T!! ;-)
            > I am positive that even with the little ZS80 you can do wonders; just
            > check out what people took with this scope!
            >
            > http://tinyurl. com/qy6cs
            >
            > 40 wonderful photos!
            >
            > As other recommened, I strongly recommend an APOgrade Package Upgrade
            > for the future!
            >
            > http://www.william- optics.com/ wowebs/products. htm
            >
            > --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, m0bius <no_reply@> wrote:
            > >
            > > It Must be beginners luck? I feel fortunate to have won a Williams
            > > Optics Zenithstar 80 at the Shingletown Star Party raffle!
            > > http://www.shinglet ownstarparty. org/
            > >
            > > A fun little guy, so cute ya just wanna pinch it's cheeks. I managed
            > > to get two great nights under mag 7 skies with this little
            > refractor.
            > > It really is fun exploring the star fields with almost 5 degrees
            > fov.
            > > The sharpness wasn't too bad if you kept it under 80x.
            > >
            > > The price was right [free], but I was little disappointed with the
            > > optics. After I arrived back at home I noticed the lens cell
            > > rattled... the cemented doublet was loose in the cell! A little
            > > surgery on the cell makes for a little bit nicer image now
            > > [disassembly of the dew shield, cell and baffles]. It's not an APO
            > or
            > > even a 'semi-apo' by any standard, but what can you expect for an F6
            > > achromat?
            > >
            > > The rotating focuser is a nice feature. I've noticed that there are
            > > many rough sports as you rotate the focuser. It feels a bit like
            > > little metal shavings in the 'race'.
            > >
            > > Overall I'm pretty happy especially considering the price!
            > > I'm not too sure that I will keep this scope very long, but it's
            > been
            > > an education as to what 80mm can do with a very dark sky - not
            > > disappointing at all.
            > >
            > > I wonder how the Stellarvue 80mm scopes compare?
            > > Anyone done a side-by-side?
            > >
            > >
            > > - Mike R.
            > > Sacramento, CA
            > >
            >

          • Scott Walker
            I will try to help. I do not have the ZS80 but I do have the Petzval 66. I think some of the features are similar. First the loose lens. The lens should not be
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
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              I will try to help. I do not have the ZS80 but I do have the Petzval 66. I think some of the features are similar. First the loose lens. The lens should not be loose and this may be part of your sharpness problem so lets fix this first. The lens is held in the cell with the baffle cone. To get to the lens cell unscrew the front of the dew shield. This is a thin ring. With this ring removed you can slide the dew shield back to expose the lens cell. First check if it is the lens cell that is loose, if not, unscrew the lens cell from the main tube. The baffle assembly with come out with the lens cell. The baffle assembly hold the lens into the lens cell, so tighten the baffle into the lens cell if the lens is loose. I just make it snug, not too tight. Put it back together and check the sharpness. Astigmatism is easy to check for with a star test and is your most likely cause for lack of sharpness. If you have astigmatism a star will look like and X at best focus  and go to / and \ ( 90 degree ovals) on either side of focus. Good luck. Let us know what happens.
               
              "Rotating  focuser has metal shavings." If you tighten the silver lock too hard, or  put too much torque on the focuser you can damage the surface that the silver screw rides on. To check for damage,or shavings,  unscrew the silver screw and the three dark screws that go around the focuser. This will allow the focus assembly to be removed and expose the surface that the silver screw and dark screw ride on. Remove any debrie. The surface should be black if undamaged. If the anodizing has been damaged you will see bare aluminum. The anodizing is very hard but can be damaged. If there is damage try to remove burrs with a fine file. Avoid sand paper if you can to keep grit away from the scope. Clean up shavings and reassemble. Screw the  black screw in the same amount so things are centered. Do not tighten these black screws. Only the silver screw is tightened to lock the rotation.
               
              Like I said these instructions are based on my Petzval 66 but I believe the assemblies are similar.
               
              Scott Walker
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: m0bius
              Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:25 AM
              Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80

              Such enthusiasm, I like to see happy people :)
              Thank you for the replies.

              Let's recap:
              Objective lens loose in cell
              Lens sharp to only 80x
              Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it

              Replies:
              1 - APO-grade the scope
              2 - APO-grade the scope
              3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)

              Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
              scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope but I
              don't think it "cuts the mustard".

              How tight should the Objective Lens be in the lens holder? If its too
              tight could it cause bad images?

              Can I take apart the focuser to remove the metal shavings (its pretty
              rough)? Any directions to do that?

              Is 80x (3mm-6mm Nagler zoom at the 6mm setting) all the more
              magnification I should expect from this scope?

              Thank you,
              Mike

              --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, "williamopticsmarke ting"
              <williamopticsmarke ting@...> wrote:
              >
              > Congratulations to Mike, and if you take astrophotography, try
              > your "beginner's luck" by submitting to Astronomy or S&T!! ;-)
              > I am positive that even with the little ZS80 you can do wonders; just
              > check out what people took with this scope!
              >
              > http://tinyurl. com/qy6cs
              >
              > 40 wonderful photos!
              >
              > As other recommened, I strongly recommend an APOgrade Package Upgrade
              > for the future!
              >
              > http://www.william- optics.com/ wowebs/products. htm
              >
              > --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, m0bius <no_reply@> wrote:
              > >
              > > It Must be beginners luck? I feel fortunate to have won a Williams
              > > Optics Zenithstar 80 at the Shingletown Star Party raffle!
              > > http://www.shinglet ownstarparty. org/
              > >
              > > A fun little guy, so cute ya just wanna pinch it's cheeks. I managed
              > > to get two great nights under mag 7 skies with this little
              > refractor.
              > > It really is fun exploring the star fields with almost 5 degrees
              > fov.
              > > The sharpness wasn't too bad if you kept it under 80x.
              > >
              > > The price was right [free], but I was little disappointed with the
              > > optics. After I arrived back at home I noticed the lens cell
              > > rattled... the cemented doublet was loose in the cell! A little
              > > surgery on the cell makes for a little bit nicer image now
              > > [disassembly of the dew shield, cell and baffles]. It's not an APO
              > or
              > > even a 'semi-apo' by any standard, but what can you expect for an F6
              > > achromat?
              > >
              > > The rotating focuser is a nice feature. I've noticed that there are
              > > many rough sports as you rotate the focuser. It feels a bit like
              > > little metal shavings in the 'race'.
              > >
              > > Overall I'm pretty happy especially considering the price!
              > > I'm not too sure that I will keep this scope very long, but it's
              > been
              > > an education as to what 80mm can do with a very dark sky - not
              > > disappointing at all.
              > >
              > > I wonder how the Stellarvue 80mm scopes compare?
              > > Anyone done a side-by-side?
              > >
              > >
              > > - Mike R.
              > > Sacramento, CA
              > >
              >

            • Michael Portuesi
              I ll suggest option 4: Call WO, ask them (politely) to fix it, and send it back. Offering a scope as star party door prize with so many problems is simply a
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
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                I'll suggest option 4: Call WO, ask them (politely) to fix it, and
                send it back.

                Offering a scope as star party door prize with so many problems is
                simply a cruel joke. It might have been just fine when it originally
                left WO, but even so it wasn't okay when it reached your hands, and WO
                (or the dealer which provided the prize) should provide some support.

                APOgrading the scope should be rejected on principle. You shouldn't
                have to spend $$$$ to make a free "prize" scope usable. You should
                get WO to provide you a scope that works as advertised, then think
                about upgrades.

                Michael Portuesi

                --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, m0bius <no_reply@...> wrote:
                > Let's recap:
                > Objective lens loose in cell
                > Lens sharp to only 80x
                > Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it
                >
                > Replies:
                > 1 - APO-grade the scope
                > 2 - APO-grade the scope
                > 3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)
                >
                > Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
                > scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope but I
                > don't think it "cuts the mustard".
              • Rickie Rainwater
                Just call WO and tell them how you obtained the scope. Give them all the details and see if it can be fixed. The longer you put this off, the more likely you
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Just call WO and tell them how you obtained the scope.  Give them all the details and see if it can be fixed.  The longer you put this off, the more likely you will have to figure it out on your own.  William Optics will be glad to give you the options and I am certain you will get results.  Just be honest with them about all the details and call on the phone.
                  Best Wishes,
                  rickie Rainwater

                  Scott Walker <sdwalker@...> wrote:
                  I will try to help. I do not have the ZS80 but I do have the Petzval 66. I think some of the features are similar. First the loose lens. The lens should not be loose and this may be part of your sharpness problem so lets fix this first. The lens is held in the cell with the baffle cone. To get to the lens cell unscrew the front of the dew shield. This is a thin ring. With this ring removed you can slide the dew shield back to expose the lens cell. First check if it is the lens cell that is loose, if not, unscrew the lens cell from the main tube. The baffle assembly with come out with the lens cell. The baffle assembly hold the lens into the lens cell, so tighten the baffle into the lens cell if the lens is loose. I just make it snug, not too tight. Put it back together and check the sharpness. Astigmatism is easy to check for with a star test and is your most likely cause for lack of sharpness. If you have astigmatism a star will look like and X at best focus  and go to / and \ ( 90 degree ovals) on either side of focus. Good luck. Let us know what happens.
                   
                  "Rotating  focuser has metal shavings." If you tighten the silver lock too hard, or  put too much torque on the focuser you can damage the surface that the silver screw rides on. To check for damage,or shavings,  unscrew the silver screw and the three dark screws that go around the focuser. This will allow the focus assembly to be removed and expose the surface that the silver screw and dark screw ride on. Remove any debrie. The surface should be black if undamaged. If the anodizing has been damaged you will see bare aluminum. The anodizing is very hard but can be damaged. If there is damage try to remove burrs with a fine file. Avoid sand paper if you can to keep grit away from the scope. Clean up shavings and reassemble. Screw the  black screw in the same amount so things are centered. Do not tighten these black screws. Only the silver screw is tightened to lock the rotation.
                   
                  Like I said these instructions are based on my Petzval 66 but I believe the assemblies are similar.
                   
                  Scott Walker
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: m0bius
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:25 AM
                  Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80

                  Such enthusiasm, I like to see happy people :)
                  Thank you for the replies.

                  Let's recap:
                  Objective lens loose in cell
                  Lens sharp to only 80x
                  Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it

                  Replies:
                  1 - APO-grade the scope
                  2 - APO-grade the scope
                  3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)

                  Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
                  scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope but I
                  don't think it "cuts the mustard".

                  How tight should the Objective Lens be in the lens holder? If its too
                  tight could it cause bad images?

                  Can I take apart the focuser to remove the metal shavings (its pretty
                  rough)? Any directions to do that?

                  Is 80x (3mm-6mm Nagler zoom at the 6mm setting) all the more
                  magnification I should expect from this scope?

                  Thank you,
                  Mike

                  --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, "williamopticsmarke ting"
                  <williamopticsmarke ting@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Congratulations to Mike, and if you take astrophotography, try
                  > your "beginner's luck" by submitting to Astronomy or S&T!! ;-)
                  > I am positive that even with the little ZS80 you can do wonders; just
                  > check out what people took with this scope!
                  >
                  > http://tinyurl. com/qy6cs
                  >
                  > 40 wonderful photos!
                  >
                  > As other recommened, I strongly recommend an APOgrade Package Upgrade
                  > for the future!
                  >
                  > http://www.william- optics.com/ wowebs/products. htm
                  >
                  > --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, m0bius <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > It Must be beginners luck? I feel fortunate to have won a Williams
                  > > Optics Zenithstar 80 at the Shingletown Star Party raffle!
                  > > http://www.shinglet ownstarparty. org/
                  > >
                  > > A fun little guy, so cute ya just wanna pinch it's cheeks. I managed
                  > > to get two great nights under mag 7 skies with this little
                  > refractor.
                  > > It really is fun exploring the star fields with almost 5 degrees
                  > fov.
                  > > The sharpness wasn't too bad if you kept it under 80x.
                  > >
                  > > The price was right [free], but I was little disappointed with the
                  > > optics. After I arrived back at home I noticed the lens cell
                  > > rattled... the cemented doublet was loose in the cell! A little
                  > > surgery on the cell makes for a little bit nicer image now
                  > > [disassembly of the dew shield, cell and baffles]. It's not an APO
                  > or
                  > > even a 'semi-apo' by any standard, but what can you expect for an F6
                  > > achromat?
                  > >
                  > > The rotating focuser is a nice feature. I've noticed that there are
                  > > many rough sports as you rotate the focuser. It feels a bit like
                  > > little metal shavings in the 'race'.
                  > >
                  > > Overall I'm pretty happy especially considering the price!
                  > > I'm not too sure that I will keep this scope very long, but it's
                  > been
                  > > an education as to what 80mm can do with a very dark sky - not
                  > > disappointing at all.
                  > >
                  > > I wonder how the Stellarvue 80mm scopes compare?
                  > > Anyone done a side-by-side?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > - Mike R.
                  > > Sacramento, CA
                  > >
                  >


                • Richard Ozer
                  Correct on all points! RO ... From: Michael Portuesi To: Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 3:53 PM
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Correct on all points!

                    RO

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Michael Portuesi" <mportuesi@...>
                    To: <William-Optics@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 3:53 PM
                    Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80


                    > I'll suggest option 4: Call WO, ask them (politely) to fix it, and
                    > send it back.
                    >
                    > Offering a scope as star party door prize with so many problems is
                    > simply a cruel joke. It might have been just fine when it originally
                    > left WO, but even so it wasn't okay when it reached your hands, and WO
                    > (or the dealer which provided the prize) should provide some support.
                    >
                    > APOgrading the scope should be rejected on principle. You shouldn't
                    > have to spend $$$$ to make a free "prize" scope usable. You should
                    > get WO to provide you a scope that works as advertised, then think
                    > about upgrades.
                    >
                    > Michael Portuesi
                    >
                    > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, m0bius <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >> Let's recap:
                    >> Objective lens loose in cell
                    >> Lens sharp to only 80x
                    >> Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it
                    >>
                    >> Replies:
                    >> 1 - APO-grade the scope
                    >> 2 - APO-grade the scope
                    >> 3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)
                    >>
                    >> Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
                    >> scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope but I
                    >> don't think it "cuts the mustard".
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > www.william-optics.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • williamopticsmarketing
                    Thanks for the help Scott. Let me comment further. From Mike s previous email I had understood he had fixed the lens. Sorry about it. Most likely the issue was
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks for the help Scott.

                      Let me comment further. From Mike's previous email I had understood
                      he had fixed the lens. Sorry about it.

                      Most likely the issue was simply a loose baffle cone, which serves as
                      retaining ring. All you need to do is to follow Scott's very clear
                      explanation and tighten the cone until the lens does not move, but
                      not so much that too much stress is applied to the lens. This is a
                      cemented doublet, you cannot miscollimate it, but a loose cell or and
                      overly tightened baffle can affect collimation.
                      In other words, if you overtighten the lens badly, yes, you could get
                      astigmatism that you can notice especially at high powers.

                      As to the focuser, again Scott's reasoning is good. Let me clarify
                      only one point; the focuser can be damaged if you wantonly
                      overtightened the tension allen screw on the focuser. But this would
                      most likely result in a broken ball bearing and a totally unusable
                      focuser. This has happened only twice that I know of, so I do not
                      think many people actually treat their focuser so bad! Since your
                      scope is new, I assume there might be other explanations.
                      Sometimes the issue is simpler, there is some debris stuck between
                      the drawtube and its housing; I would first try to clean the drawtube
                      and see how it goes. I remember one case like this before.
                      Scott's procedure is good but it requires a bit of technical
                      familiarity with the product. Normally we would not allow this under
                      warranty terms, but I think that if you feel confident about it, you
                      can go ahead and check. Even if the telescope was a raffle prize, if
                      you need any assistance do not hesitate to contact us and we will fix
                      it for you.

                      Last but not least, I think people recommended APOgrade not as a way
                      out of the issues, but as a suggestion in case your expectations were
                      of an APO performance for the lens. I am sure you will be much more
                      pleased after you fix the baffle! That is why I showed you the
                      photos, meaning, the telescope is already good as it is even if it is
                      no APO. The maximum magnification that William recommended a while
                      ago for this scope is between 100 and 120x if I remember correctly.
                      The scopes were tested at 150x but that is only to search for optical
                      problems; we do not normally recommend such a high magnification for
                      the Z80 (which incidentally will be dependent on seeing conditions
                      and eyepiece quality anyway).
                      Other ZS80 users may comment on what magn. they pushed their to
                      without image break-down.



                      Hope this helps. Keep us posted.

                      Daniel




                      --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Walker" <sdwalker@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > I will try to help. I do not have the ZS80 but I do have the
                      Petzval 66. I think some of the features are similar. First the loose
                      lens. The lens should not be loose and this may be part of your
                      sharpness problem so lets fix this first. The lens is held in the
                      cell with the baffle cone. To get to the lens cell unscrew the front
                      of the dew shield. This is a thin ring. With this ring removed you
                      can slide the dew shield back to expose the lens cell. First check if
                      it is the lens cell that is loose, if not, unscrew the lens cell from
                      the main tube. The baffle assembly with come out with the lens cell.
                      The baffle assembly hold the lens into the lens cell, so tighten the
                      baffle into the lens cell if the lens is loose. I just make it snug,
                      not too tight. Put it back together and check the sharpness.
                      Astigmatism is easy to check for with a star test and is your most
                      likely cause for lack of sharpness. If you have astigmatism a star
                      will look like and X at best focus and go to / and \ ( 90 degree
                      ovals) on either side of focus. Good luck. Let us know what happens.
                      >
                      > "Rotating focuser has metal shavings." If you tighten the silver
                      lock too hard, or put too much torque on the focuser you can damage
                      the surface that the silver screw rides on. To check for damage,or
                      shavings, unscrew the silver screw and the three dark screws that go
                      around the focuser. This will allow the focus assembly to be removed
                      and expose the surface that the silver screw and dark screw ride on.
                      Remove any debrie. The surface should be black if undamaged. If the
                      anodizing has been damaged you will see bare aluminum. The anodizing
                      is very hard but can be damaged. If there is damage try to remove
                      burrs with a fine file. Avoid sand paper if you can to keep grit away
                      from the scope. Clean up shavings and reassemble. Screw the black
                      screw in the same amount so things are centered. Do not tighten these
                      black screws. Only the silver screw is tightened to lock the
                      rotation.
                      >
                      > Like I said these instructions are based on my Petzval 66 but I
                      believe the assemblies are similar.
                      >
                      > Scott Walker
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: m0bius
                      > To: William-Optics@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:25 AM
                      > Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80
                      >
                      >
                      > Such enthusiasm, I like to see happy people :)
                      > Thank you for the replies.
                      >
                      > Let's recap:
                      > Objective lens loose in cell
                      > Lens sharp to only 80x
                      > Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it
                      >
                      > Replies:
                      > 1 - APO-grade the scope
                      > 2 - APO-grade the scope
                      > 3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)
                      >
                      > Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
                      > scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope
                      but I
                      > don't think it "cuts the mustard".
                      >
                      > How tight should the Objective Lens be in the lens holder? If its
                      too
                      > tight could it cause bad images?
                      >
                      > Can I take apart the focuser to remove the metal shavings (its
                      pretty
                      > rough)? Any directions to do that?
                      >
                      > Is 80x (3mm-6mm Nagler zoom at the 6mm setting) all the more
                      > magnification I should expect from this scope?
                      >
                      > Thank you,
                      > Mike
                      >
                      > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "williamopticsmarketing"
                      > <williamopticsmarketing@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Congratulations to Mike, and if you take astrophotography, try
                      > > your "beginner's luck" by submitting to Astronomy or S&T!! ;-)
                      > > I am positive that even with the little ZS80 you can do
                      wonders; just
                      > > check out what people took with this scope!
                      > >
                      > > http://tinyurl.com/qy6cs
                      > >
                      > > 40 wonderful photos!
                      > >
                      > > As other recommened, I strongly recommend an APOgrade Package
                      Upgrade
                      > > for the future!
                      > >
                      > > http://www.william-optics.com/wowebs/products.htm
                      > >
                      > > --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, m0bius <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > It Must be beginners luck? I feel fortunate to have won a
                      Williams
                      > > > Optics Zenithstar 80 at the Shingletown Star Party raffle!
                      > > > http://www.shingletownstarparty.org/
                      > > >
                      > > > A fun little guy, so cute ya just wanna pinch it's cheeks. I
                      managed
                      > > > to get two great nights under mag 7 skies with this little
                      > > refractor.
                      > > > It really is fun exploring the star fields with almost 5
                      degrees
                      > > fov.
                      > > > The sharpness wasn't too bad if you kept it under 80x.
                      > > >
                      > > > The price was right [free], but I was little disappointed
                      with the
                      > > > optics. After I arrived back at home I noticed the lens cell
                      > > > rattled... the cemented doublet was loose in the cell! A
                      little
                      > > > surgery on the cell makes for a little bit nicer image now
                      > > > [disassembly of the dew shield, cell and baffles]. It's not
                      an APO
                      > > or
                      > > > even a 'semi-apo' by any standard, but what can you expect
                      for an F6
                      > > > achromat?
                      > > >
                      > > > The rotating focuser is a nice feature. I've noticed that
                      there are
                      > > > many rough sports as you rotate the focuser. It feels a bit
                      like
                      > > > little metal shavings in the 'race'.
                      > > >
                      > > > Overall I'm pretty happy especially considering the price!
                      > > > I'm not too sure that I will keep this scope very long, but
                      it's
                      > > been
                      > > > an education as to what 80mm can do with a very dark sky - not
                      > > > disappointing at all.
                      > > >
                      > > > I wonder how the Stellarvue 80mm scopes compare?
                      > > > Anyone done a side-by-side?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > - Mike R.
                      > > > Sacramento, CA
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Scott Walker
                      All good points. I just have one point of clarification. The silver screw that I am talking about locks the rotation of the focus assembly, not the focus tube
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 5, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        All good points. I just have one point of clarification. The silver screw that I am talking about locks the rotation of the focus assembly, not the focus tube itself. I think Daniel was talking about the screw that locks the focus tube's in and out motion, also a silver screw but it is further back and on the underside of the focuser. If this underside screw is over tightened this will overstress the ball bearings that the focus tube rides on. Be careful not to over tighten either screw.
                         
                        In general I agree that it is best to contact WO if you have problems with your scope. I think in general it is nice if WO can talk a user through a problem so that the scope does not have to be sent back. This saves both the user and WO alot of time for simple problems. This should work well for a simple problem like a loose lens in a cemented doublet.
                         
                        Scott Walker
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:58 PM
                        Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80

                        Thanks for the help Scott.

                        Let me comment further. From Mike's previous email I had understood
                        he had fixed the lens. Sorry about it.

                        Most likely the issue was simply a loose baffle cone, which serves as
                        retaining ring. All you need to do is to follow Scott's very clear
                        explanation and tighten the cone until the lens does not move, but
                        not so much that too much stress is applied to the lens. This is a
                        cemented doublet, you cannot miscollimate it, but a loose cell or and
                        overly tightened baffle can affect collimation.
                        In other words, if you overtighten the lens badly, yes, you could get
                        astigmatism that you can notice especially at high powers.

                        As to the focuser, again Scott's reasoning is good. Let me clarify
                        only one point; the focuser can be damaged if you wantonly
                        overtightened the tension allen screw on the focuser. But this would
                        most likely result in a broken ball bearing and a totally unusable
                        focuser. This has happened only twice that I know of, so I do not
                        think many people actually treat their focuser so bad! Since your
                        scope is new, I assume there might be other explanations.
                        Sometimes the issue is simpler, there is some debris stuck between
                        the drawtube and its housing; I would first try to clean the drawtube
                        and see how it goes. I remember one case like this before.
                        Scott's procedure is good but it requires a bit of technical
                        familiarity with the product. Normally we would not allow this under
                        warranty terms, but I think that if you feel confident about it, you
                        can go ahead and check. Even if the telescope was a raffle prize, if
                        you need any assistance do not hesitate to contact us and we will fix
                        it for you.

                        Last but not least, I think people recommended APOgrade not as a way
                        out of the issues, but as a suggestion in case your expectations were
                        of an APO performance for the lens. I am sure you will be much more
                        pleased after you fix the baffle! That is why I showed you the
                        photos, meaning, the telescope is already good as it is even if it is
                        no APO. The maximum magnification that William recommended a while
                        ago for this scope is between 100 and 120x if I remember correctly.
                        The scopes were tested at 150x but that is only to search for optical
                        problems; we do not normally recommend such a high magnification for
                        the Z80 (which incidentally will be dependent on seeing conditions
                        and eyepiece quality anyway).
                        Other ZS80 users may comment on what magn. they pushed their to
                        without image break-down.


                        Hope this helps. Keep us posted.

                        Daniel

                        --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, "Scott Walker" <sdwalker@.. .>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > I will try to help. I do not have the ZS80 but I do have the
                        Petzval 66. I think some of the features are similar. First the loose
                        lens. The lens should not be loose and this may be part of your
                        sharpness problem so lets fix this first. The lens is held in the
                        cell with the baffle cone. To get to the lens cell unscrew the front
                        of the dew shield. This is a thin ring. With this ring removed you
                        can slide the dew shield back to expose the lens cell. First check if
                        it is the lens cell that is loose, if not, unscrew the lens cell from
                        the main tube. The baffle assembly with come out with the lens cell.
                        The baffle assembly hold the lens into the lens cell, so tighten the
                        baffle into the lens cell if the lens is loose. I just make it snug,
                        not too tight. Put it back together and check the sharpness.
                        Astigmatism is easy to check for with a star test and is your most
                        likely cause for lack of sharpness. If you have astigmatism a star
                        will look like and X at best focus and go to / and \ ( 90 degree
                        ovals) on either side of focus. Good luck. Let us know what happens.
                        >
                        > "Rotating focuser has metal shavings." If you tighten the silver
                        lock too hard, or put too much torque on the focuser you can damage
                        the surface that the silver screw rides on. To check for damage,or
                        shavings, unscrew the silver screw and the three dark screws that go
                        around the focuser. This will allow the focus assembly to be removed
                        and expose the surface that the silver screw and dark screw ride on.
                        Remove any debrie. The surface should be black if undamaged. If the
                        anodizing has been damaged you will see bare aluminum. The anodizing
                        is very hard but can be damaged. If there is damage try to remove
                        burrs with a fine file. Avoid sand paper if you can to keep grit away
                        from the scope. Clean up shavings and reassemble. Screw the black
                        screw in the same amount so things are centered. Do not tighten these
                        black screws. Only the silver screw is tightened to lock the
                        rotation.
                        >
                        > Like I said these instructions are based on my Petzval 66 but I
                        believe the assemblies are similar.
                        >
                        > Scott Walker
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: m0bius
                        > To: William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:25 AM
                        > Subject: [William-Optics] Re: Raffle prize - WO ZenithStar 80
                        >
                        >
                        > Such enthusiasm, I like to see happy people :)
                        > Thank you for the replies.
                        >
                        > Let's recap:
                        > Objective lens loose in cell
                        > Lens sharp to only 80x
                        > Rotating focuser has metal shavings in it
                        >
                        > Replies:
                        > 1 - APO-grade the scope
                        > 2 - APO-grade the scope
                        > 3 - take astrophotos (and/or APO-grade)
                        >
                        > Does anyone have suggestions to address the issues I have with my
                        > scope (other than an APO-grade), I would like to keep the scope
                        but I
                        > don't think it "cuts the mustard".
                        >
                        > How tight should the Objective Lens be in the lens holder? If its
                        too
                        > tight could it cause bad images?
                        >
                        > Can I take apart the focuser to remove the metal shavings (its
                        pretty
                        > rough)? Any directions to do that?
                        >
                        > Is 80x (3mm-6mm Nagler zoom at the 6mm setting) all the more
                        > magnification I should expect from this scope?
                        >
                        > Thank you,
                        > Mike
                        >
                        > --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, "williamopticsmarke ting"
                        > <williamopticsmarke ting@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Congratulations to Mike, and if you take astrophotography, try
                        > > your "beginner's luck" by submitting to Astronomy or S&T!! ;-)
                        > > I am positive that even with the little ZS80 you can do
                        wonders; just
                        > > check out what people took with this scope!
                        > >
                        > > http://tinyurl. com/qy6cs
                        > >
                        > > 40 wonderful photos!
                        > >
                        > > As other recommened, I strongly recommend an APOgrade Package
                        Upgrade
                        > > for the future!
                        > >
                        > > http://www.william- optics.com/ wowebs/products. htm
                        > >
                        > > --- In William-Optics@ yahoogroups. com, m0bius <no_reply@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > It Must be beginners luck? I feel fortunate to have won a
                        Williams
                        > > > Optics Zenithstar 80 at the Shingletown Star Party raffle!
                        > > > http://www.shinglet ownstarparty. org/
                        > > >
                        > > > A fun little guy, so cute ya just wanna pinch it's cheeks. I
                        managed
                        > > > to get two great nights under mag 7 skies with this little
                        > > refractor.
                        > > > It really is fun exploring the star fields with almost 5
                        degrees
                        > > fov.
                        > > > The sharpness wasn't too bad if you kept it under 80x.
                        > > >
                        > > > The price was right [free], but I was little disappointed
                        with the
                        > > > optics. After I arrived back at home I noticed the lens cell
                        > > > rattled... the cemented doublet was loose in the cell! A
                        little
                        > > > surgery on the cell makes for a little bit nicer image now
                        > > > [disassembly of the dew shield, cell and baffles]. It's not
                        an APO
                        > > or
                        > > > even a 'semi-apo' by any standard, but what can you expect
                        for an F6
                        > > > achromat?
                        > > >
                        > > > The rotating focuser is a nice feature. I've noticed that
                        there are
                        > > > many rough sports as you rotate the focuser. It feels a bit
                        like
                        > > > little metal shavings in the 'race'.
                        > > >
                        > > > Overall I'm pretty happy especially considering the price!
                        > > > I'm not too sure that I will keep this scope very long, but
                        it's
                        > > been
                        > > > an education as to what 80mm can do with a very dark sky - not
                        > > > disappointing at all.
                        > > >
                        > > > I wonder how the Stellarvue 80mm scopes compare?
                        > > > Anyone done a side-by-side?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > - Mike R.
                        > > > Sacramento, CA
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >

                      • m0bius
                        Thank you everyone for the excellent replies! I apologize for my surly attitude in the previous post - I m sure many of you have been there before. One of the
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thank you everyone for the excellent replies!

                          I apologize for my surly attitude in the previous post - I'm sure many
                          of you have been there before.

                          One of the organizers of the event has contacted me and supplied
                          contact information to take care of my ZS80 under warranty (through
                          the retailer). All is well...

                          :)

                          Thanks,

                          Mike


                          --- In William-Optics@yahoogroups.com, "williamopticsmarketing"
                          <williamopticsmarketing@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks for the help Scott.
                          >
                          > Let me comment further. From Mike's previous email I had understood
                          > he had fixed the lens. Sorry about it.
                          >
                          > Most likely the issue was simply a loose baffle cone, which serves as
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