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John R

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  • jremarek
    I like your site and agree with the idea of not breeding any more, although probably not for the exact same reasons. However, when I read some of your
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 11, 2002
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      I like your site and agree with the idea of not breeding any more,
      although probably not for the exact same reasons. However, when I
      read some of your responses to reasons why to breed, I had to say
      something. This is just a knee-jerk response for me whenever I feel
      that a person is presenting his or her opinions as a valid basis for
      an argument. For example, your comparison of having children to
      renting rooms on a sinking ship is a perfectly valid opinion, but it
      is only an opinion, not a fact. I know it is impossible to
      completely eliminate personal bias when writing on a topic that you
      feel so strongly about, so every little bit of devil's advocate
      helps. That is why I want to offer defenses to two of the most
      common arguments that other people have had. Disclaimer: Any
      opinions expressed are only my own. I do not claim to know the truth
      about anything. If I did I would write self-help books or start a
      religion. Or both.

      1. God wants us to-He just may, for all we know. You made an
      excellent counter-point with the argument that we are destroying
      other of God's creations just by being alive. However, to try and
      know the mind of God is hopeless, as the collected works of religious
      thinkers over the millenia seem to show. For all we know, God put
      certain species on Earth just to be cannon fodder for us. I sure as
      hell hope not, but maybe an infinitely-powerful being has a different
      outlook on the survival of life on Earth, human and otherwise. Like
      say, the way a 10-year-old feels about his ant farm. Earthquakes,
      famines and floods might be the celestial equivalent of a magnifying
      glass on a hot day. Or on a softer note, maybe He has a sentimental
      spot for humanity, like the parents who forgive their toddler after
      he flushes the goldfish down the toilet. (And tries to flush the cat
      after it to catch it.) Maybe he wants us to learn how to live in
      harmony with Nature rather than abicating the fight. Giving up on
      our species might be against His plan. I'll make sure to ask Him
      when I die (if He/She/They/It exists.)

      2.It's natural-Technically yes. You may say that every other species
      on the planet finds an equilibrium in Nature and doesn't run
      rampant. That's true, but it's not for lack of trying. I've never
      seen the rest of Nature hold back out of love and respect for the
      biosphere. Instead they are kept in check by competition and limited
      resources. For example, when Snakeheads were introduced to North
      America, they didn't respect the existing biodiversity, but proceeded
      to devour it, lick their lips, and then go look for seconds. True it
      was a human idiot that let them loose in the first place, (along with
      thousands of other destructive species) but it seems to me that this
      unbounded behavior is the rule, not the exception in the natural
      world. Humanity's problem then is that it is too successful. We
      have destroyed the natural competition and burned through more than a
      healthful amount of natural resources. However, the reason for our
      destructive success is our cognitive abilities, which also means we,
      unlike most other species, can look forward to the results of our
      actions and endeavor to change them. What action each person chooses
      to take is a personal choice, but at least the option exists. For
      example, how depressing would it be if the "lifeform that" finally
      broke away from the pack was something like an airborne version of
      HIV that could infect any species. It could concievably wipe out all
      life on Earth down to the monocellular level much more efficiently
      than humans could if we tried, and then quietly die when its supply
      of hosts was exhausted, all without ever even achieving self-
      awareness. Yikes!

      Also, you said that it would be cruel to the children to be born into
      this world. I would like to go on record as saying that I'm glad my
      parents decided to have me. I have had a lot of very enjoyable
      experiences that I would not have if I'd never existed (duh!) and
      despite it's downsides, I am glad to be alive. Besides, any child
      born onto this "sinking ship" will soon become an adult, just like
      you said. An adult who can make the choice if he or she wants to
      stay onboard or get off. Suicide. I don't advocate it, but I
      believe in having the option avialable. Instead of assuming that
      your child will hate it here, why not let him or her make the
      judgement? I'm actually listening to the song "Suicide" by Bobby
      Gaylor as I write this, and he says it better than I can. Download
      it if you want. Viva KaZaA! This of course applies only to people
      who want children for one reason or another, which does not include
      me.
      Finally, if your eyes aren't bleeding yet, I have one final point to
      make. you say repeatedly that the world would be better off without
      humans. For whom? The general health of the world may be better,
      but I personally think the loss of the human species would be a great
      loss to the world in its own way. I believe that humans make
      worthwhile contributions to the world, and I would not like to see
      the good thrown out with the (admittedly large amount of) bad. Ok,
      I'll admit that I prefer the company of dogs, cats, snakes, rats, and
      even tapeworms to CERTAIN members of our species, but I stand by my
      main statement. Of course your mention of Gaia on the opening pages
      suggests that you believe in a connection to Nature so that what is
      good for the world as a whole is good for you as well, but not every
      person shares this outlook on life. I am not ready to give up hope
      on homo sapiens just yet, but I would like to congratulate you on
      making an interesting, convincing, and generally open-minded site.
      Of course, the YES-NO minimum breeding intelligence quiz was just
      plain rude, but other than that I enjoyed reading what you had to
      offer.

      P.S. For any biochemists and DNA-splicers out there in favor of (Semi)
      Voluntary Human Extinction, I suggest that you watch the movie On Her
      Majesty's Secret Service. It's an awful James Bond movie, but its
      got one hell of an idea for limiting the population without harming
      any humans currently alive. I deny all responsibility for anyone who
      tries it though.
    • prince_cassiel <prince_cassiel@yahoo.com>
      I would just like to say this [img] http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/oceanography/courses_html/OCN201/Grigg/ext inct.jpg[/img]
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 25, 2002
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        I would just like to say this

        [img]
        http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/oceanography/courses_html/OCN201/Grigg/ext
        inct.jpg[/img]
      • prince_cassiel <prince_cassiel@yahoo.com>
        http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/oceanography/courses_html/OCN201/Grigg/ext inct.jpg[/img]
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 25, 2002
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        • prince_cassiel <prince_cassiel@yahoo.com>
          this program sucks for a message board oh well you can all fill in the rest of the link yourself
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 25, 2002
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            this program sucks for a message board
            oh well you can all fill in the rest of the link yourself
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