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Re: Why VHEMT? Translate it to emotion

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  • Edith
    Dear Alan Thomas, thank you for your answer. I certainly think what you describe could happen. That s one of my fears. But all the things you just warned me
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 3, 2012
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      Dear Alan Thomas, thank you for your answer. I certainly think what you describe could happen. That's one of my fears. But all the things you just warned me about, apply only to my well-being. What about the child's? Is he/she gonna have a chance at being happy? That's my concern. I'm not the only person I should worry about.

      I think very dramatic things could happen if I decide to go with my "subconscious, emotional, weird" thing I'm feeling. I am aware of the economic/social/environmental issues. I'm currently studying my Master's in Political Science (very depressing choice, don't recommend it) My anxiety comes from my head, and my head tells me I could end up in a lot of distress and guilt watching a child I brougth into the world go hungry, jobless, or some other horrible apocaliptic stuff that, not me, scientists and economists, have been warning us about. Are these ideas too extreme and unlikely to happen? I hope so.

      I often imagine a sweet child, with my adored husband's eyes filled in tears, looking at me and asking me why, knowing all I know about today's reality, I brought him or her to this decadent world on purpose. I am afraid of feeling incredibly guilty for doing something not even my parents and grandparents dared to do: planning a life into this world.

      I don't need a child for any reason in particular. I love my life, I am happy in the middle of the earth's disaster. I just have this inexplicable, shameful (to me) and strange desire to have one child. And it opposses my upbringing, my beliefs, my compassion for animals, my love for nature, the feelings I've had most of my life... It is also something my family doesn't aprove, and I want to know how not to be divided, if I should just ignore this voice, if It's possible, wise, or convenient to shut up this non-rational side of me, and if this I'm feeling is even normal.








      --- In Why_VHEMT@yahoogroups.com, Alan Thomas <alankingsleythomas@...> wrote:
      >
      > You'll hear a lot of stuff here, obviously, for remaining "childfree". But
      > I'm going to give you a very simple and clear warning, and if you don't
      > heed it I guarantee in ten or twenty years you are going to look back and
      > remember "wow, that Alan Thomas guy on the email list was SO right--how I
      > wish I had listened!!"
      >
      > So this is it, plain and simple: If you don't listen to the voice inside
      > you that's telling you you want a child, one of two things is almost
      > certain to happen:
      >
      > (1) In about eight or ten years, that voice will go from soft to very loud,
      > the alarm on your biological clock will clang like a fire engine, and
      > (assuming you even have the money) you will end up spending tens of
      > thousands of dollars and going through painful and exhausting medical
      > procedures to try to jump-start your fading fertility;
      >
      > and/or
      >
      > (2) You never end up having any kids, and you will live the rest of your
      > days with a hole in your heart, a pit in your stomach, filled with regret,
      > bitterness, emptiness, and loneliness.
      >
      > I'm not saying this is true for everyone who does not have kids. Some
      > people genuinely never want them at all. But if you're feeling this
      > "subconscious" urge at age thirty, you are not one of those people and you
      > are assuring yourself decades of depression if you don't listen to the
      > voice.
      >
      > Also, there's *nothing *on this earth that feels as good as snuggling a
      > little baby and having them look up, coo at you, and give you a huge,
      > loving smile. The older ones are fun too in their own way of course!
      >
      > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Edith Esquivel <medithi@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > Hello, group. I recently bumped into the VHEMT web page, and I loved
      > > that it contained stuff I've been thinking about for a long time.
      > >
      > > I am an only child, and an only grandchild. My mother was an only child and
      > > my father has two brothers and two sisters, all married without children
      > > (and they're already around 50 years old). They exist only because my
      > > grandmother's doctor in the remote village she lived in didn't want to
      > > tell her about contraceptives. In fact, I was an accident my mom didn't
      > > want to interrupt. My father asked her for an abortion because, I quote:
      > > "This world is like a very boring party, and it makes no sense inviting
      > > people to boring parties". He's been a good father. I understand his point.
      > >
      > > I have the feeling that not many people can say this, but
      > > since I was little, I've been trained, specially by my father's family,
      > > not to reproduce. They have given me a lot of the reasons posted on the
      > > web. I've always agreed with these reasons, and I never ever visualized
      > > myself as a mother.
      > >
      > > Nowadays, I feel as if I'm in a soul crisis, because
      > > lately, I don't know the reason and I'm very ashamed to admit it, I've had
      > > these thoughts of me as a mother. It is as if my subconscious wants
      > > motherhood, and my conscious tells me it is a stupid selfish idea. I
      > > cannot think of a non-selfish reason to reproduce, and I'm afraid a
      > > child born today won't have much of a future. Despite all these reasons
      > > and my antinatalist upbringing
      > > these thoughts and feelings keep coming.
      > >
      > > I haven't considered adoption because my husband
      > > says he thinks he can't handle an adopted child... with the rejection
      > > issues
      > > and the emotional distress from the abandoning family.
      > > I'm not sure I'm strong enough to do that either.
      > >
      > > He doesn't know if he wants to breed. We have established if we have an
      > > accident
      > > we won't consider abortion. But for that to happen, almighty God would
      > > have to
      > > break a condom and ruin an experienced birthcontrol pill taker. Ha ha, not
      > > likely to happen.
      > > However, why do I, very deep down, consider an accident would be great?
      > > We are both 30 years old.
      > >
      > > My question is: Is it right or advisable to forget my intuition or
      > > whatever is bothering me
      > > at this stage in life, and let the brain rule regarding breeding? (A very
      > > well informed brain in these issues, by the way)
      > >
      > > A long time ago, I let my brain rule in my lovelife and it didn't go well
      > > at all.
      > >
      > > I don't want to make a mistake. Is one thing to agree with the concept of
      > > being childless, and a different one to embrace it for life
      > > despite the inner self?
      > >
      > > Pff, intellectually I'm all set... how do I translate that to the emotions?
      > >
      > >
      > > EDITH
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Alan Thomas
      What you are feeling is the most normal feeling in the world. I think the doom and gloom, especially for those living in advanced democratic nations, is way
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 3, 2012
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        What you are feeling is the most normal feeling in the world.

        I think the doom and gloom, especially for those living in advanced
        democratic nations, is way overblown. Nothing is guaranteed, but if you
        really nurture your children well (I highly recommend the books by
        Harvard-trained pediatrician Dr. Sears and his wife Martha who is an RN,
        starting with the one simply titled The Baby Book) you and your children
        will form a tight bond and will be very unlikely to ever pull the old "I
        wish I was never born" routine.

        I firmly believe my children, with their intelligence, curiosity, and
        compassion, make the world a better place, not a worse one.

        But you know: if you want to compromise, having just one child still goes
        pretty strongly toward population reduction: you are replacing two people
        with one. Think of it this way: it's been 400 years since the Mayflower
        landed, and U.S. population has in that interval worked its way all the way
        past 300 million. If all mothers in the U.S. limited themselves to one
        child each, the population would fall to under a million total in less
        than 200 years. (Obviously I'm not factoring in immigration, but you get
        the point.)

        On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Edith <medithi@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Dear Alan Thomas, thank you for your answer. I certainly think what you
        > describe could happen. That's one of my fears. But all the things you just
        > warned me about, apply only to my well-being. What about the child's? Is
        > he/she gonna have a chance at being happy? That's my concern. I'm not the
        > only person I should worry about.
        >
        > I think very dramatic things could happen if I decide to go with my
        > "subconscious, emotional, weird" thing I'm feeling. I am aware of the
        > economic/social/environmental issues. I'm currently studying my Master's in
        > Political Science (very depressing choice, don't recommend it) My anxiety
        > comes from my head, and my head tells me I could end up in a lot of
        > distress and guilt watching a child I brougth into the world go hungry,
        > jobless, or some other horrible apocaliptic stuff that, not me, scientists
        > and economists, have been warning us about. Are these ideas too extreme and
        > unlikely to happen? I hope so.
        >
        > I often imagine a sweet child, with my adored husband's eyes filled in
        > tears, looking at me and asking me why, knowing all I know about today's
        > reality, I brought him or her to this decadent world on purpose. I am
        > afraid of feeling incredibly guilty for doing something not even my parents
        > and grandparents dared to do: planning a life into this world.
        >
        > I don't need a child for any reason in particular. I love my life, I am
        > happy in the middle of the earth's disaster. I just have this inexplicable,
        > shameful (to me) and strange desire to have one child. And it opposses my
        > upbringing, my beliefs, my compassion for animals, my love for nature, the
        > feelings I've had most of my life... It is also something my family doesn't
        > aprove, and I want to know how not to be divided, if I should just ignore
        > this voice, if It's possible, wise, or convenient to shut up this
        > non-rational side of me, and if this I'm feeling is even normal.
        >
        > --- In Why_VHEMT@yahoogroups.com, Alan Thomas <alankingsleythomas@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > You'll hear a lot of stuff here, obviously, for remaining "childfree".
        > But
        > > I'm going to give you a very simple and clear warning, and if you don't
        > > heed it I guarantee in ten or twenty years you are going to look back and
        > > remember "wow, that Alan Thomas guy on the email list was SO right--how I
        > > wish I had listened!!"
        > >
        > > So this is it, plain and simple: If you don't listen to the voice inside
        > > you that's telling you you want a child, one of two things is almost
        > > certain to happen:
        > >
        > > (1) In about eight or ten years, that voice will go from soft to very
        > loud,
        > > the alarm on your biological clock will clang like a fire engine, and
        > > (assuming you even have the money) you will end up spending tens of
        > > thousands of dollars and going through painful and exhausting medical
        > > procedures to try to jump-start your fading fertility;
        > >
        > > and/or
        > >
        > > (2) You never end up having any kids, and you will live the rest of your
        > > days with a hole in your heart, a pit in your stomach, filled with
        > regret,
        > > bitterness, emptiness, and loneliness.
        > >
        > > I'm not saying this is true for everyone who does not have kids. Some
        > > people genuinely never want them at all. But if you're feeling this
        > > "subconscious" urge at age thirty, you are not one of those people and
        > you
        > > are assuring yourself decades of depression if you don't listen to the
        > > voice.
        > >
        > > Also, there's *nothing *on this earth that feels as good as snuggling a
        >
        > > little baby and having them look up, coo at you, and give you a huge,
        > > loving smile. The older ones are fun too in their own way of course!
        > >
        > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Edith Esquivel <medithi@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > **
        >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hello, group. I recently bumped into the VHEMT web page, and I loved
        > > > that it contained stuff I've been thinking about for a long time.
        > > >
        > > > I am an only child, and an only grandchild. My mother was an only
        > child and
        > > > my father has two brothers and two sisters, all married without
        > children
        > > > (and they're already around 50 years old). They exist only because my
        > > > grandmother's doctor in the remote village she lived in didn't want to
        > > > tell her about contraceptives. In fact, I was an accident my mom didn't
        > > > want to interrupt. My father asked her for an abortion because, I
        > quote:
        > > > "This world is like a very boring party, and it makes no sense inviting
        > > > people to boring parties". He's been a good father. I understand his
        > point.
        > > >
        > > > I have the feeling that not many people can say this, but
        > > > since I was little, I've been trained, specially by my father's family,
        > > > not to reproduce. They have given me a lot of the reasons posted on the
        > > > web. I've always agreed with these reasons, and I never ever visualized
        > > > myself as a mother.
        > > >
        > > > Nowadays, I feel as if I'm in a soul crisis, because
        > > > lately, I don't know the reason and I'm very ashamed to admit it, I've
        > had
        > > > these thoughts of me as a mother. It is as if my subconscious wants
        > > > motherhood, and my conscious tells me it is a stupid selfish idea. I
        > > > cannot think of a non-selfish reason to reproduce, and I'm afraid a
        > > > child born today won't have much of a future. Despite all these reasons
        > > > and my antinatalist upbringing
        > > > these thoughts and feelings keep coming.
        > > >
        > > > I haven't considered adoption because my husband
        > > > says he thinks he can't handle an adopted child... with the rejection
        > > > issues
        > > > and the emotional distress from the abandoning family.
        > > > I'm not sure I'm strong enough to do that either.
        > > >
        > > > He doesn't know if he wants to breed. We have established if we have an
        > > > accident
        > > > we won't consider abortion. But for that to happen, almighty God would
        > > > have to
        > > > break a condom and ruin an experienced birthcontrol pill taker. Ha ha,
        > not
        > > > likely to happen.
        > > > However, why do I, very deep down, consider an accident would be great?
        > > > We are both 30 years old.
        > > >
        > > > My question is: Is it right or advisable to forget my intuition or
        > > > whatever is bothering me
        > > > at this stage in life, and let the brain rule regarding breeding? (A
        > very
        > > > well informed brain in these issues, by the way)
        > > >
        > > > A long time ago, I let my brain rule in my lovelife and it didn't go
        > well
        > > > at all.
        > > >
        > > > I don't want to make a mistake. Is one thing to agree with the concept
        > of
        > > > being childless, and a different one to embrace it for life
        > > > despite the inner self?
        > > >
        > > > Pff, intellectually I'm all set... how do I translate that to the
        > emotions?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > EDITH
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • M
        Hey Edith, When I was in my early thirties I went through the same thing. I began to feel that I really wanted a child, but realized that it was more
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 5, 2012
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          Hey Edith,

          When I was in my early thirties I went through the same thing. I began to feel that I really wanted a child, but realized that it was more biology/instinct than anything else. The feeling with me passed. I'm in my forties now and don't regret my decision, but everyone is different.

          If you and your husband decide to have a child there is nothing wrong with that. It's the people that have many, and the people that have many and can't even afford to raise them that are the problem.

          Good luck with whatever decision you make.



          On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:27 PM, Edith Esquivel <medithi@...> wrote:

          > Hello, group. I recently bumped into the VHEMT web page, and I loved
          > that it contained stuff I've been thinking about for a long time.
          >
          > I am an only child, and an only grandchild. My mother was an only child and
          > my father has two brothers and two sisters, all married without children
          > (and they're already around 50 years old). They exist only because my
          > grandmother's doctor in the remote village she lived in didn't want to
          > tell her about contraceptives. In fact, I was an accident my mom didn't
          > want to interrupt. My father asked her for an abortion because, I quote:
          > "This world is like a very boring party, and it makes no sense inviting
          > people to boring parties". He's been a good father. I understand his point.
          >
          > I have the feeling that not many people can say this, but
          > since I was little, I've been trained, specially by my father's family,
          > not to reproduce. They have given me a lot of the reasons posted on the
          > web. I've always agreed with these reasons, and I never ever visualized
          > myself as a mother.
          >
          > Nowadays, I feel as if I'm in a soul crisis, because
          > lately, I don't know the reason and I'm very ashamed to admit it, I've had
          > these thoughts of me as a mother. It is as if my subconscious wants
          > motherhood, and my conscious tells me it is a stupid selfish idea. I
          > cannot think of a non-selfish reason to reproduce, and I'm afraid a
          > child born today won't have much of a future. Despite all these reasons and my antinatalist upbringing
          > these thoughts and feelings keep coming.
          >
          > I haven't considered adoption because my husband
          > says he thinks he can't handle an adopted child... with the rejection issues
          > and the emotional distress from the abandoning family.
          > I'm not sure I'm strong enough to do that either.
          >
          > He doesn't know if he wants to breed. We have established if we have an accident
          > we won't consider abortion. But for that to happen, almighty God would have to
          > break a condom and ruin an experienced birthcontrol pill taker. Ha ha, not likely to happen.
          > However, why do I, very deep down, consider an accident would be great?
          > We are both 30 years old.
          >
          > My question is: Is it right or advisable to forget my intuition or whatever is bothering me
          > at this stage in life, and let the brain rule regarding breeding? (A very well informed brain in these issues, by the way)
          >
          > A long time ago, I let my brain rule in my lovelife and it didn't go well at all.
          >
          > I don't want to make a mistake. Is one thing to agree with the concept of being childless, and a different one to embrace it for life
          > despite the inner self?
          >
          > Pff, intellectually I'm all set... how do I translate that to the emotions?
          >
          >
          > EDITH
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Les Knight
          Edith, It seems to me many aspects of our lives involve trying to overrule our emotions with our intellect. It s not easy, and most give up. Sometimes emotions
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 5, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Edith, It seems to me many aspects of our lives involve trying to overrule our emotions with our intellect. It's not easy, and most give up. Sometimes emotions change, as M said, so we just have to maintain a struggle for a while.

            You probably know how our brains evolved to have three main sections, each over-laying the earlier section: reptilian, limbic and neocortal. We like to think our frontal lobe is in control, but falling in love proves that our limbic system over rides logic. In our personal choices, we mainly use intellect to justify emotional desires. When we instead lean toward logic as a guide, we might experience uneasiness if not unhappiness. It's similar to falling in love with the wrong person and forcing ourselves to accept that the love will never be consummated.

            Rather than brain over heart, as it's romantically expressed, I think it's a question of which section of our brains we allow to determine our behavior -- often a compromising partnership.

            Les


            On 10/3/12 10:07 PM, Edith wrote:
            > Dear Alan Thomas, thank you for your answer. I certainly think what
            > you describe could happen. That's one of my fears. But all the things
            > you just warned me about, apply only to my well-being. What about the
            > child's? Is he/she gonna have a chance at being happy? That's my
            > concern. I'm not the only person I should worry about.
            >
            > I think very dramatic things could happen if I decide to go with my
            > "subconscious, emotional, weird" thing I'm feeling. I am aware of the
            > economic/social/environmental issues. I'm currently studying my
            > Master's in Political Science (very depressing choice, don't
            > recommend it) My anxiety comes from my head, and my head tells me I
            > could end up in a lot of distress and guilt watching a child I
            > brougth into the world go hungry, jobless, or some other horrible
            > apocaliptic stuff that, not me, scientists and economists, have been
            > warning us about. Are these ideas too extreme and unlikely to happen?
            > I hope so.
            >
            > I often imagine a sweet child, with my adored husband's eyes filled
            > in tears, looking at me and asking me why, knowing all I know about
            > today's reality, I brought him or her to this decadent world on
            > purpose. I am afraid of feeling incredibly guilty for doing something
            > not even my parents and grandparents dared to do: planning a life
            > into this world.
            >
            > I don't need a child for any reason in particular. I love my life, I
            > am happy in the middle of the earth's disaster. I just have this
            > inexplicable, shameful (to me) and strange desire to have one child.
            > And it opposses my upbringing, my beliefs, my compassion for animals,
            > my love for nature, the feelings I've had most of my life... It is
            > also something my family doesn't aprove, and I want to know how not
            > to be divided, if I should just ignore this voice, if It's possible,
            > wise, or convenient to shut up this non-rational side of me, and if
            > this I'm feeling is even normal.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Why_VHEMT@yahoogroups.com, Alan Thomas
            > <alankingsleythomas@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> You'll hear a lot of stuff here, obviously, for remaining
            >> "childfree". But I'm going to give you a very simple and clear
            >> warning, and if you don't heed it I guarantee in ten or twenty
            >> years you are going to look back and remember "wow, that Alan
            >> Thomas guy on the email list was SO right--how I wish I had
            >> listened!!"
            >>
            >> So this is it, plain and simple: If you don't listen to the voice
            >> inside you that's telling you you want a child, one of two things
            >> is almost certain to happen:
            >>
            >> (1) In about eight or ten years, that voice will go from soft to
            >> very loud, the alarm on your biological clock will clang like a
            >> fire engine, and (assuming you even have the money) you will end up
            >> spending tens of thousands of dollars and going through painful and
            >> exhausting medical procedures to try to jump-start your fading
            >> fertility;
            >>
            >> and/or
            >>
            >> (2) You never end up having any kids, and you will live the rest of
            >> your days with a hole in your heart, a pit in your stomach, filled
            >> with regret, bitterness, emptiness, and loneliness.
            >>
            >> I'm not saying this is true for everyone who does not have kids.
            >> Some people genuinely never want them at all. But if you're
            >> feeling this "subconscious" urge at age thirty, you are not one of
            >> those people and you are assuring yourself decades of depression if
            >> you don't listen to the voice.
            >>
            >> Also, there's *nothing *on this earth that feels as good as
            >> snuggling a little baby and having them look up, coo at you, and
            >> give you a huge, loving smile. The older ones are fun too in their
            >> own way of course!
            >>
            >> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Edith Esquivel <medithi@...>
            >> wrote:
            >>
            >>> **
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Hello, group. I recently bumped into the VHEMT web page, and I
            >>> loved that it contained stuff I've been thinking about for a long
            >>> time.
            >>>
            >>> I am an only child, and an only grandchild. My mother was an only
            >>> child and my father has two brothers and two sisters, all married
            >>> without children (and they're already around 50 years old). They
            >>> exist only because my grandmother's doctor in the remote village
            >>> she lived in didn't want to tell her about contraceptives. In
            >>> fact, I was an accident my mom didn't want to interrupt. My
            >>> father asked her for an abortion because, I quote: "This world is
            >>> like a very boring party, and it makes no sense inviting people
            >>> to boring parties". He's been a good father. I understand his
            >>> point.
            >>>
            >>> I have the feeling that not many people can say this, but since I
            >>> was little, I've been trained, specially by my father's family,
            >>> not to reproduce. They have given me a lot of the reasons posted
            >>> on the web. I've always agreed with these reasons, and I never
            >>> ever visualized myself as a mother.
            >>>
            >>> Nowadays, I feel as if I'm in a soul crisis, because lately, I
            >>> don't know the reason and I'm very ashamed to admit it, I've had
            >>> these thoughts of me as a mother. It is as if my subconscious
            >>> wants motherhood, and my conscious tells me it is a stupid
            >>> selfish idea. I cannot think of a non-selfish reason to
            >>> reproduce, and I'm afraid a child born today won't have much of a
            >>> future. Despite all these reasons and my antinatalist upbringing
            >>> these thoughts and feelings keep coming.
            >>>
            >>> I haven't considered adoption because my husband says he thinks
            >>> he can't handle an adopted child... with the rejection issues and
            >>> the emotional distress from the abandoning family. I'm not sure
            >>> I'm strong enough to do that either.
            >>>
            >>> He doesn't know if he wants to breed. We have established if we
            >>> have an accident we won't consider abortion. But for that to
            >>> happen, almighty God would have to break a condom and ruin an
            >>> experienced birthcontrol pill taker. Ha ha, not likely to
            >>> happen. However, why do I, very deep down, consider an accident
            >>> would be great? We are both 30 years old.
            >>>
            >>> My question is: Is it right or advisable to forget my intuition
            >>> or whatever is bothering me at this stage in life, and let the
            >>> brain rule regarding breeding? (A very well informed brain in
            >>> these issues, by the way)
            >>>
            >>> A long time ago, I let my brain rule in my lovelife and it didn't
            >>> go well at all.
            >>>
            >>> I don't want to make a mistake. Is one thing to agree with the
            >>> concept of being childless, and a different one to embrace it for
            >>> life despite the inner self?
            >>>
            >>> Pff, intellectually I'm all set... how do I translate that to the
            >>> emotions?
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> EDITH
            >>>
            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >
            >
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          • kezia_jauron
            I apologize for bursting in - just joined this group today after being on the other Yahoo group for a long time - but since you seem like a newbie too, maybe
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 7, 2013
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              I apologize for bursting in - just joined this group today after being on the other Yahoo group for a long time - but since you seem like a newbie too, maybe this isn't a terrible intro.

              I'm 41 and married 16 years. Never wanted kids, like yourself for many reasons, but in my late 20s I held my best friend's newborn for the first time and I admit it - I melted. I'd met lots of babies but holding him was different. She was like a sister, so her baby was someone I already loved. Fortunately after a few hours, he wet, cried, etc., and the urge passed. Whew.

              Over the last 20 years or so, I've asked dozens if not hundreds of people why they chose to breed. (When someone asked me why I don't have/don't want kids, I would often turn it around and ask them the equivalent question. I don't recommend this practice since you come face-to-face with the absence of insight behind breeding.) However, the best answer I ever heard was from a friend who said she wanted kids for the same reason that she wanted a drink of water when she's thirsty or wanted to eat when she's hungry. It was a biological urge that she couldn't understand or explain. At least it was honest.

              So it sounds like you're experiencing that hungry/thirsty/baby-wanting biological phase. As Alan said - totally normal for many people. Like the hormonal adolescent years and the randy single years, this too shall pass. It may take you longer than the few hours it took me when I was about your age, and holding a baby I already loved, but it does pass.

              You ask about "embracing" the concept of childlessness "for life" - more importantly, if you breed, you'd have to embrace the concept of parenthood for life. You'll have to be invested in that forever, emotionally and intellectually, not just now in your hormonal married nesting phase.

              I honestly would never give someone my approval to breed their own child, so I apologize but I can't help you feel justified in the path you're considering. Your objections to adoption strike me as weird, but then again, if you don't think you could love and accept a child who didn't spring out of your own loins, maybe it's truly best you don't try.

              Best of luck navigating this conundrum.


              --- In Why_VHEMT@yahoogroups.com, Edith Esquivel wrote:
              >
              > Hello, group. I recently bumped into the VHEMT web page, and I loved
              > that it contained stuff I've been thinking about for a long time.
              >
              > I am an only child, and an only grandchild. My mother was an only child and
              > my father has two brothers and two sisters, all married without children
              > (and they're already around 50 years old). They exist only because my
              > grandmother's doctor in the remote village she lived in didn't want to
              > tell her about contraceptives. In fact, I was an accident my mom didn't
              > want to interrupt. My father asked her for an abortion because, I quote:
              > "This world is like a very boring party, and it makes no sense inviting
              > people to boring parties". He's been a good father. I understand his point.
              >
              > I have the feeling that not many people can say this, but 
              > since I was little, I've been trained, specially by my father's family,
              > not to reproduce. They have given me a lot of the reasons posted on the
              > web. I've always agreed with these reasons, and I never ever visualized
              > myself as a mother. 
              >
              > Nowadays, I feel as if I'm in a soul crisis, because
              > lately, I don't know the reason and I'm very ashamed to admit it, I've had
              > these thoughts of me as a mother. It is as if my subconscious wants
              > motherhood, and my conscious tells me it is a stupid selfish idea. I
              > cannot think of a non-selfish reason to reproduce, and I'm afraid a
              > child born today won't have much of a future. Despite all these reasons and my antinatalist upbringing
              > these thoughts and feelings keep coming. 
              >
              > I haven't considered adoption because my husband 
              > says he thinks he can't handle an adopted child... with the rejection issues
              > and the emotional distress from the abandoning family.
              > I'm not sure I'm strong enough to do that either. 
              >
              > He doesn't know if he wants to breed. We have established if we have an accident
              > we won't consider abortion. But for that to happen, almighty God would have to 
              > break a condom and ruin an experienced birthcontrol pill taker. Ha ha, not likely to happen.
              > However, why do I, very deep down, consider an accident would be great?
              > We are both 30 years old.
              >
              > My question is: Is it right or advisable to forget my intuition or whatever is bothering me
              > at this stage in life,  and let the brain rule regarding breeding? (A very well informed brain in these issues, by the way)
              >
              >
              > A long time ago, I let my brain rule in my lovelife and it didn't go well at all.
              >
              > I don't want to make a mistake. Is one thing to agree with the concept of being childless, and a different one to embrace it for life
              > despite the inner self?
              >
              > Pff, intellectually I'm all set... how do I translate that to the emotions?
              >
              >
              >  
              > EDITH
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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