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Re: to be or not to be?

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  • billbeus@yahoo.com
    ... millions ... we ... protect ... Indeed. But the question at hand is how much else do we take down with us? Sure there will come a time for our natural
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 11, 2001
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      > Did anyone here stop to think, this earth has been here for
      millions
      > of years before us and will be here long after we are gone. Either
      we
      > will find a way to co-exist with this world or this world will
      protect
      > itself and do away with us.



      Indeed. But the question at hand is how much else do we take down
      with us? Sure there will come a time for our natural extinction, but
      that involves inestimable destruction of plant and animal life all
      over the world.


      whether we succeed is yet to be seen, but
      > by refusing the chance to better a world,



      Perhaps you'd like to explain to the group how making a decision not
      to breed is "refusing the chance to better a world." Maybe you need
      to ask "who is it better for?" You? Me? The Human Race? Clarify
      this before I argue for or against it. Otherwise, we'll all end up
      chasing our tails.


      by denying yourselves of the
      > very things that make us who we all are does nothing to better the
      > world and merely taints it further.



      I was not aware that one's children was what made them who they
      were. I guess that makes me nobody and my mom a homosexual.



      There is no guarantee that many
      > years from now some other race wont take our place and do the same
      > thing.


      Perhaps what would make such a hypothetical species capable of
      seceding us would be their capability to maintain balance with their
      environment.

      Or maybe proposing non-sequitir possibilities is just plain weak.
      Maybe squirrels will take over the world one day and destroy the
      environment. Maybe we should kill all modern squirrels to prevent
      that from happening.

      We are here and we are now. If some alien race is going to supplant
      us, why do you even pretend to care what happens? What does it matter
      what we do towards your "better world?"


      HAVE TO GO...will continue in just a few hours


      If you want to believe in something, and want to protect
      > something, believe in yourself, go out and try to make the
      diffrence
      > in a productive manner. Did you know over a billion people could
      fit
      > in a city the size of new york with room to spare and live normaly.
      > Humanity has problems, but making a choice to be part of ending it
      > doesn't solve a problem, it just ends it as would some suicide
      victim
      > would, all alone, with no way to shout out against the world.
      because
      > it's a volunteer project does not make it right, just, or moral. If
      > you all are truely worried about our "amoral" society, perhaps you
      > should start looking at yourself first and go on from there. There
      are
      > better ways, and persuing some damned suicidal goal (which is what
      > this is in many ways) doesn't help make anything right, it just
      adds
      > another wrong to the many that already exist.
    • billbeus@yahoo.com
      CONTINUATION ... By that, I presume you mean a reproductive manner. And what is to say that I do not believe in myself? Or that I do not already go out there
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 12, 2001
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        CONTINUATION
        >
        >
        > If you want to believe in something, and want to protect
        > > something, believe in yourself, go out and try to make the
        > diffrence
        > > in a productive manner.


        By that, I presume you mean a reproductive manner. And what is to
        say that I do not believe in myself? Or that I do not already go out
        there and try t make a difference in a productive manner.

        And I find it fairly absurd that people would be anti-procreation
        just for the sake of "believing in something." It would seem as
        though the actual cause didn't matter, so long as you belived in any
        old thing. Well the cause does matter. If you believe in White
        Supremacy and you believe in Environmentalism, then it's two entirely
        different stories, isn't it?



        Did you know over a billion people could
        > fit
        > > in a city the size of new york with room to spare and live

        normaly.


        I hate to inform you of this, but I live in New York, and it has
        under 9 million people, and there isn't enough room for them.
        While we're playing the trivia game, did you know that for the first
        10,000 years of homo sapiens sapen history, the population never came
        close to 1 billion. Only 150 years ago did it cross that mark. And
        since then, it's multiplied itself six times over. Do you think that
        the world population has always been growing? It's a fairly recent
        phenomenon.

        People sometimes confront my environmental or depopulationist views
        by saying "yeah, but how long before things start seriously going
        wrong." my answer is usually "about a century ago, maybe two."




        > > Humanity has problems, but making a choice to be part of ending
        it
        > > doesn't solve a problem, it just ends it as would some suicide
        > victim
        > > would, all alone, with no way to shout out against the world.



        Um, if there were no humans, there would be nothing worth shouting
        out against. Thus, problem solved. If humanity is gone, what could
        you possibly mean by "world," in terms of something to rebel against?
        You seem to have gotten wrapped up in your metaphor.
        With us gone, all that would be left would be the Earth and its
        various ecosystems. And we are arguing on environmental terms,
        aren't we? If not, perhaps that could count for the discrepancies in
        our opinions just a tad.

        > because
        > > it's a volunteer project does not make it right, just, or moral.




        If
        > > you all are truely worried about our "amoral" society, perhaps
        you
        > > should start looking at yourself first and go on from there.


        Therefore anybody who is concerned about the condition of their
        society, or at all politically conscious should not be feeling that
        way. They should be looking towards themselves instead.

        There
        > are
        > > better ways,


        name some.


        and persuing some damned suicidal goal (which is what
        > > this is in many ways) doesn't help make anything right,


        i intend on living a long and happy life. it's just my line that's
        dying.


        it just
        > adds
        > > another wrong to the many that already exist.

        How is it wrong not to breed? By saying this, you are operating from
        the standpoint that it is immoral not to procreate.
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