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Furling Jib v Normal Jib

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  • wetabix0947
    As part of my three year tuning and training programme for the World Masters Championships, I have been researching pointing angles. With my four year old
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 2 5:51 AM

      As part of my three year tuning and training programme for the World Masters Championships, I have been researching pointing angles. With my four year old rather doggy furling jib I seldom achieve better than 53 degrees over the ground and one tack is better than the other. I wondered if the other jib might be any better so I gave it a try. It is early days but I think it might point a bit higher - perhaps 51 degrees, but it is desperately difficult to eliminate other factors such as tide, windshifts and suchlike.  Things I have noticed: 


      - it is significantly easier to see where you are going with the normal jib. 

      -the normal jib is a real faff to rig compared to the furler (if you leave your boat assembled in the dinghy park). 

      -the furling jib has the same outline as the normal jib but has a lot more shape cut into it which may make it more powerful. Because of the height of the drum the tack is higher than on the normal jib and this impacts on the clew hole that you have to use. The leech of the furling jib flaps manically on starboard tack if you use the forward hole. There is a leech line to control this but it makes the leech curl in light winds.OK - you can adjust it!

      -The normal jib cannot be furled when using the screacher.

      - my version of the furling gear applies compression to the mast via the halyard (the current version doesn't). My version of the halyard, which is capable of applying about 20-1 mechanical advantage to the forestay tension, has considerable influence of the amount of mast rake you have. 


      I doubt if any of these factors affect my speed around the course by more than a couple of seconds but it does show that you can make the Weta complicated if you want to.


      I shall probably buy a new jib sometime in the run up to the games and if it is a furler I will probably get the version without the UV strip as, over time, it imparts curve to the leech and, at the top, to the luff. UV is not a problem north of 58 degrees north (or South, I presume?!).


      Does anyone with any actual expertise in this field have any thoughts on any of this?

    • tomkirkman1
      I have the Weta furling jib. It is indeed the same size as the regular jib, but has no battens. It doesn t put any more compression on the mast as the regular,
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 2 6:50 AM
        I have the Weta furling jib. It is indeed the same size as the regular jib, but has no battens. It doesn't put any more compression on the mast as the regular, as is it simply fitted over the built-in forestay, just like the standard jib, but with lashings top and bottom so that it will furl when the drum line is pulled. The luff tension of the jib between roller bearing and furling drum is set - it doesn't increase as you pull the forestay tighter.

        If you shorten the forward strop at the hull bow, you can put the bottom of the furling drum low enough that the furling jib will be located approximately in the same location as the standard jib.

        I haven't measured angles as you have, but find that with a little more mast rake I can point pretty high. The Hobie Cat people on the lake here often comment that I seem to be able to point higher in the Weta than they can in their cats.

        It is also possible that the older furling jib is a bit different than the newer one, which is what I have. I like it for the added convenience of being able to depower a bit when coming in to the dock, and/or while having someone out for training. In those cases I usually let them sail a bit under mainsail alone, and can then unfurl the jib in a few seconds, rather than having to go back in or trying to put up the standard jib on the water. maybe I'm giving up something, somewhere, but so far the tradeoff, for me anyway, goes in the direction of the furling jib. I like it. (Plus it unnerves some of the other sailors out there when they see my jib and/or screecher furling in and out. One guy said that every time he thinks he's about to catch me I seem to just unfurl another sail. I tell them I have 5 or 6 on board and if they force me, I'll pull them all out.)
      • wetabix0947
        ...of course the Hobie doesn t have a dagger board so may make more leeway. The early furling gear set up was for the forestay to be tensioned through the jib
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 2 9:19 AM
          ...of course the Hobie doesn't have a dagger board so may make more leeway.  The early furling gear set up was for the forestay to be tensioned through the jib halyard which was boosted by the downhaul tackle with a 16-1 advantage. My system has an additional 2-1 on top of that  which is ultimately led down the mast to the slider where it is fastened. There is no doubt that you can over tension this and pull the mast forward. I agree one hundred percent that the convenience of the furler outweighs any performance disadvantages (if there are any). I ironed my luff this afternoon! As for additional sails, I have sometimes wondered about a genoa.....set on a furler just in front of the jib

          George!
        • yottieguy
          You can speed up the normal jib rigging process by tying a small stainless Carbine Hook to the end of the jib halyard which you use to clip the halyard to the
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 2 3:55 PM
            You can speed up the normal jib rigging process by tying a small stainless Carbine Hook to the end of the jib halyard which you use to clip the halyard to the top of the sail (can also be used for the screecher), instead of tying a bowline each time.

            Also having set up the 3:1 on the jib halyard on the mast cleat (as shown in the manual) with a "truckers hitch"
            http://www.animatedknots.com/truckers/ you can leave the top loop in place. As the loop doesn't pass through the  block on the mast it means you can't get the halyard all the way down when de-rigging. Instead you unclip the Carbine Hook and then pass the tail of the halyard through the hook and back through the cleat to stow it. The screecher carbine hook can be hooked on to the top of its cleat with the cleated rope passed underneath it.

            Carbine Hook
            http://www.apsltd.com/c-169-rwo-carbine-hooks.aspx

            As I don't have the luxury of keeping my boat assembled in a dinghy park, this neat method can go to pot when you separate the mast sections. But I wrap a velcro sleeve around the halyards at the base of the top section and then wrap the tails together around the top mast base finishing with a small draw bag over it. This means the halyards are in place and *mostly* untangled when you start rigging and the bag keeps the dirt off the mast and ropes when towing.

            Hope this helps

            Paul #325

             


            ---In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, <wetabix0947@...> wrote
            -the normal jib is a real faff to rig compared to the furler (if you leave your boat assembled in the dinghy park).


          • wetabix0947
            I agree with all that and would add that all six halyard ends should have some sort of weight on them even if it is only a large knot. They are then less
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 3 12:55 AM
              I agree with all that and would add that all six halyard ends should have some sort of weight on them even if it is only a large knot. They are then less likely to go up the mast if you let go. It also helps if you rig the jib in the calm of the yacht club palm grove (as in the various videos) rather than waist deep in water rocked by the wash of the local jetski fraternity.  I am reluctant to push the boat through the slipway gate (12 ft wide) with the jib up but I may change my mind. I discovered yesterday that I had forgotten how to tie a cargo hitch and at the end of the day with cold wet hands had to use my teeth to undo it. There has to be a better way (this morning a filling fell out but that may have been a coincidence). The good news is that I have managed to get the furler an inch and a half lower and have ironed the creases out of much of the luff. I am wondering if a length of that special wire/rope that they use for top-down spinnaker furlers might have a use as a 'furling foil' in place of the wire forestay. 

              George
            • petecailes
              An alternative to a carbine hook is a rope end stopper (bead). Can be used on both jib and genny halyards. Simple and cheaper with only a figure of eight
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 3 1:38 AM
                An alternative to a carbine hook is a 'rope end stopper' (bead). Can be used on both jib and genny halyards. Simple and cheaper with only a figure of eight knot to tie!
                Pete C
              • yottieguy
                I rarely rig my boat until it s in the water and tied up to a pontoon - unless the wind is very light. I ve had broken battens and sail damage from a gust
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 3 8:17 AM
                  I rarely rig my boat until it's in the water and tied up to a pontoon - unless the wind is very light. I've had broken battens and sail damage from a gust which hit while it was sitting on the trolley for 5 minutes.

                  If you use a Carbine Hook there's no need to undo the top (loop) knot of the cargo/truckers hitch. After unhooking the jib you feed the halyard tail from the cleat roller through the hook and then back to the cleat  jaws - and retain your fillings in the process :-) The loop knot only needs to be about 30cm/1ft above the cleat when the sail is hoisted - I suggest marking the halyard before tying the loop.

                  In your situation, I'd suggest rigging the jib in the sheltered area but don't hoist it fully - tie it to the deck with a bungee/rope loop. Then get the main ready so the head is just in the mast track with the halyard attached and the rest of the sail rolled in the cockpit. Hoist the sails when in/near the water.

                  If you attach the jib sheet to the clew with soft shackles, don't attach them until the last minute and don't hook up the main until you're away from the ramp in clear water. This minimises the time spent on the ramp and the chance of developing a Weta land-yacht! Detach the clew of the sails as soon as you return for similar reasons.

                  Paul #325

                  ---In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, <wetabix0947@...> wrote :

                  I agree with all that and would add that all six halyard ends should have some sort of weight on them even if it is only a large knot. They are then less likely to go up the mast if you let go. It also helps if you rig the jib in the calm of the yacht club palm grove (as in the various videos) rather than waist deep in water rocked by the wash of the local jetski fraternity.  I am reluctant to push the boat through the slipway gate (12 ft wide) with the jib up but I may change my mind. I discovered yesterday that I had forgotten how to tie a cargo hitch and at the end of the day with cold wet hands had to use my teeth to undo it. There has to be a better way (this morning a filling fell out but that may have been a coincidence). The good news is that I have managed to get the furler an inch and a half lower and have ironed the creases out of much of the luff. I am wondering if a length of that special wire/rope that they use for top-down spinnaker furlers might have a use as a 'furling foil' in place of the wire forestay. 

                  George
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