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Failed dyneema strop securing forestay

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  • Oscar
    Note: this only applies to the newer boats with dyneema strop at the bow that replaces the pair of stainless eyebolts. While beating upwind, the short dyneema
    Message 1 of 13 , May 14, 2011
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      Note: this only applies to the newer boats with dyneema strop at the bow that replaces the pair of stainless eyebolts.

      While beating upwind, the short dyneema strop at the bow (that secures the the bottom end of the forestay) slipped one of its stopper knots and released the forestay with hanked-on jib. I was singlehanding at the time but managed to get to a sandbar to effect repairs. The only damage was a broken jib hank.

      The strop passes through the holes at the bow, bridging over the sprit tube and secured by stopper knots under the deck flange. The one knot that was still tied had no tail, so was close to slipping also. The knot tied was a half-hitch versus a figure-eight. That explains why it slipped.

      I'll be buying a new strop that is a bit longer to allow for figure-eights and substantial tails. I suggest that all owners with this arrangement check the stopper knots.
    • Mitch
      Hey folks - dyneema slips. When I was racing Int 14s - the Ozzies had this thing called an Ozzie Bowline - used for dyneema lines. It s a half hitch, with
      Message 2 of 13 , May 14, 2011
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        Hey folks - dyneema slips. When I was racing Int 14s - the Ozzies had this
        thing called an Ozzie Bowline - used for dyneema lines. It's a half hitch,
        with another half hitch in the tail. Dyneema will slip over time, even a
        figure 8, so put the half hitch in the tail, and it will get sucked up to
        the knot and stop the slipping. You could be doubly safe and do your figure
        eight, then put in a standing half hitch after that.

        On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Oscar <oscarkramer@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Note: this only applies to the newer boats with dyneema strop at the bow
        > that replaces the pair of stainless eyebolts.
        >
        > While beating upwind, the short dyneema strop at the bow (that secures the
        > the bottom end of the forestay) slipped one of its stopper knots and
        > released the forestay with hanked-on jib. I was singlehanding at the time
        > but managed to get to a sandbar to effect repairs. The only damage was a
        > broken jib hank.
        >
        > The strop passes through the holes at the bow, bridging over the sprit tube
        > and secured by stopper knots under the deck flange. The one knot that was
        > still tied had no tail, so was close to slipping also. The knot tied was a
        > half-hitch versus a figure-eight. That explains why it slipped.
        >
        > I'll be buying a new strop that is a bit longer to allow for figure-eights
        > and substantial tails. I suggest that all owners with this arrangement check
        > the stopper knots.
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Robert Spencer
        Three of my last four boats were de-modded to the old setup with the ss eyebolts - above and below deck - the painter lives below deck, and the headstay
        Message 3 of 13 , May 16, 2011
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          Three of my last four boats were "de-modded" to the old setup with the ss eyebolts - above and below deck - the painter lives below deck, and the headstay stuff above. Still think it is neater / safer....
          233inDXB

          Sent from iPhone (probably without my reading glasses, so please excuse any bizarre word replacements that I did not see!)

          On 14 May 2011, at 18:28, "Oscar" <oscarkramer@...> wrote:

          > Note: this only applies to the newer boats with dyneema strop at the bow that replaces the pair of stainless eyebolts.
          >
          > While beating upwind, the short dyneema strop at the bow (that secures the the bottom end of the forestay) slipped one of its stopper knots and released the forestay with hanked-on jib. I was singlehanding at the time but managed to get to a sandbar to effect repairs. The only damage was a broken jib hank.
          >
          > The strop passes through the holes at the bow, bridging over the sprit tube and secured by stopper knots under the deck flange. The one knot that was still tied had no tail, so was close to slipping also. The knot tied was a half-hitch versus a figure-eight. That explains why it slipped.
          >
          > I'll be buying a new strop that is a bit longer to allow for figure-eights and substantial tails. I suggest that all owners with this arrangement check the stopper knots.
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jaffar
          Oscar: An alternative to getting a longer strop could be securing the stopper knots with those electrical cable ties (set very tight on the tail after the
          Message 4 of 13 , May 16, 2011
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            Oscar:

            An alternative to getting a longer strop could be securing the stopper knots with those electrical cable ties (set very tight on the tail after the stopper knot). My boat does not have the dyneema strop but I am using cables ties to secure the knots on the line from the launch dolly, they do a beautiful job and they do it inconspicuously.

            Jaffar

            Weta 214



            --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, "Oscar" <oscarkramer@...> wrote:
            >
            > Note: this only applies to the newer boats with dyneema strop at the bow that replaces the pair of stainless eyebolts.
            >
            > While beating upwind, the short dyneema strop at the bow (that secures the the bottom end of the forestay) slipped one of its stopper knots and released the forestay with hanked-on jib. I was singlehanding at the time but managed to get to a sandbar to effect repairs. The only damage was a broken jib hank.
            >
            > The strop passes through the holes at the bow, bridging over the sprit tube and secured by stopper knots under the deck flange. The one knot that was still tied had no tail, so was close to slipping also. The knot tied was a half-hitch versus a figure-eight. That explains why it slipped.
            >
            > I'll be buying a new strop that is a bit longer to allow for figure-eights and substantial tails. I suggest that all owners with this arrangement check the stopper knots.
            >
          • sail.plane
            My new Weta just slipped one of the forestay strop knots after only 10 outings or so. And the second one was about to slip. We were lucky it was light winds,
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 6, 2013
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              My new Weta just slipped one of the forestay strop knots after only 10 outings or so. And the second one was about to slip. We were lucky it was light winds, we had rigged the gennaker which held the mast upright and we had a handy sandbar to park the boat and retie everything.

              So, Jaffar, does your solution with the plastic cable ties work? has it held for a good amount of time?

              Does the figure-8 knot hold or does it still slip over time?


              PD: WETA take note!



              --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, "Jaffar" wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Oscar:
              >
              > An alternative to getting a longer strop could be securing the stopper knots with those electrical cable ties (set very tight on the tail after the stopper knot). My boat does not have the dyneema strop but I am using cables ties to secure the knots on the line from the launch dolly, they do a beautiful job and they do it inconspicuously.
              >
              > Jaffar
              >
              > Weta 214
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, "Oscar" wrote:
              > >
              > > Note: this only applies to the newer boats with dyneema strop at the bow that replaces the pair of stainless eyebolts.
              > >
              > > While beating upwind, the short dyneema strop at the bow (that secures the the bottom end of the forestay) slipped one of its stopper knots and released the forestay with hanked-on jib. I was singlehanding at the time but managed to get to a sandbar to effect repairs. The only damage was a broken jib hank.
              > >
              > > The strop passes through the holes at the bow, bridging over the sprit tube and secured by stopper knots under the deck flange. The one knot that was still tied had no tail, so was close to slipping also. The knot tied was a half-hitch versus a figure-eight. That explains why it slipped.
              > >
              > > I'll be buying a new strop that is a bit longer to allow for figure-eights and substantial tails. I suggest that all owners with this arrangement check the stopper knots.
              > >
              >
            • Tim Corcoran
              I would very strongly advise against the use of nylon cable ties, these fatigue and break far faster than dyneema knots. I ve observed it plenty in far less
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 6, 2013
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                I would very strongly advise against the use of nylon cable ties, these fatigue and break far faster than dyneema knots. I've observed it plenty in far less demanding applications. Nylon also isn't UV resistant. With high tech lines, the issue is always knot strength. You can splice it into a continuous loop which is stronger--no knots. Bruce Fleming does this --he passes the loop over the pointy end of the bow and I'm wondering how long it will take to wear a good groove through the gel coat.

                I use dyneema single braid a lot for soft shackles, but I didn't like it for this application. I use a doubled length of New England Ropes T-100 Technora double braid, either 3/32 or 1/8 inch size work fine, I prefer the smaller (West Marine sells it, look under dinghy double braid, as do others). This is ultra low stretch due to the high-tech core but much more to the point, the outer polyester braid is extremely rugged and when you put a stopper knot in this doubled length, it holds very very well and is sufficiently bulky. It feels hard, not soft like the single braid (the core has little give), and the ring slides on it very nicely. It doesn't fray the way a dyneema single braid like Samson Amsteel Blue does.

                For the terminally curious, dyneema and spectra are both ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene, and technora is an aramid co-polymer, not quite as strong as spectra but plenty good for this use. Buy me a beer at the next regatta and I'll draw cryptic molecular structure diagrams on napkins and bore you to tears. Or not.

                Tim



                --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, "sail.plane" wrote:
                >
                > My new Weta just slipped one of the forestay strop knots after only 10 outings or so. And the second one was about to slip. We were lucky it was light winds, we had rigged the gennaker which held the mast upright and we had a handy sandbar to park the boat and retie everything.
                >
                > So, Jaffar, does your solution with the plastic cable ties work? has it held for a good amount of time?
                >
                > Does the figure-8 knot hold or does it still slip over time?
                >
                >
                > PD: WETA take note!
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, "Jaffar" wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Oscar:
                > >
                > > An alternative to getting a longer strop could be securing the stopper knots with those electrical cable ties (set very tight on the tail after the stopper knot). My boat does not have the dyneema strop but I am using cables ties to secure the knots on the line from the launch dolly, they do a beautiful job and they do it inconspicuously.
                > >
                > > Jaffar
                > >
                > > Weta 214
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, "Oscar" wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Note: this only applies to the newer boats with dyneema strop at the bow that replaces the pair of stainless eyebolts.
                > > >
                > > > While beating upwind, the short dyneema strop at the bow (that secures the the bottom end of the forestay) slipped one of its stopper knots and released the forestay with hanked-on jib. I was singlehanding at the time but managed to get to a sandbar to effect repairs. The only damage was a broken jib hank.
                > > >
                > > > The strop passes through the holes at the bow, bridging over the sprit tube and secured by stopper knots under the deck flange. The one knot that was still tied had no tail, so was close to slipping also. The knot tied was a half-hitch versus a figure-eight. That explains why it slipped.
                > > >
                > > > I'll be buying a new strop that is a bit longer to allow for figure-eights and substantial tails. I suggest that all owners with this arrangement check the stopper knots.
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Richard Stephens
                The bow strop is something one has to watch carefully, for sure! I used a longer piece of single braid, and tied two figure-8 knots, in series, close together
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 7, 2013
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                  The bow strop is something one has to watch carefully, for sure! I used a
                  longer piece of single braid, and tied two figure-8 knots, in series, close
                  together on each side. The first knot will slip until the second one is
                  getting sucked into the bottom of the first knot. Then it holds.

                  Richard.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • sail.plane
                  OK, new strop then, it seems I am definitely going to owe a lot of beers to a lot of people around here! Tim and Richard, your beers are waiting in the fridge
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 7, 2013
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                    OK, new strop then, it seems
                    I am definitely going to owe a lot of beers to a lot of people around here! Tim and Richard, your beers are waiting in the fridge for whenever you go close to S34 W58
                    Thank you people

                    --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, Richard Stephens wrote:
                    >
                    > The bow strop is something one has to watch carefully, for sure! I used a
                    > longer piece of single braid, and tied two figure-8 knots, in series, close
                    > together on each side. The first knot will slip until the second one is
                    > getting sucked into the bottom of the first knot. Then it holds.
                    >
                    > Richard.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Bruce Fleming
                    S34 W58? Mar del Plata, Argentina? Aloha, Bruce Fleming Akahele!, #276 San Diego, California From: Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 7, 2013
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                      S34 W58? Mar del Plata, Argentina?



                      Aloha,



                      Bruce Fleming

                      Akahele!, #276

                      San Diego, California



                      From: Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of sail.plane
                      Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 3:29 PM
                      To: Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Weta-Trimarans] Re: Failed dyneema strop securing forestay



                      OK, new strop then, it seems
                      I am definitely going to owe a lot of beers to a lot of people around here!
                      Tim and Richard, your beers are waiting in the fridge for whenever you go
                      close to S34 W58
                      Thank you people





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • sail.plane
                      Buenos Aires, Argentina. We sail in the Rio de la Plata. Weta class here is... 2 boats!
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 7, 2013
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                        Buenos Aires, Argentina. We sail in the Rio de la Plata. Weta class here is... 2 boats!

                        --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Fleming" wrote:
                        >
                        > S34 W58? Mar del Plata, Argentina?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Aloha,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bruce Fleming
                        >
                        > Akahele!, #276
                        >
                        > San Diego, California
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On Behalf Of sail.plane
                        > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 3:29 PM
                        > To: Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [Weta-Trimarans] Re: Failed dyneema strop securing forestay
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > OK, new strop then, it seems
                        > I am definitely going to owe a lot of beers to a lot of people around here!
                        > Tim and Richard, your beers are waiting in the fridge for whenever you go
                        > close to S34 W58
                        > Thank you people
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Robert Spencer
                        Be careful what you offer - I got an invite to SFO from the guys there and I took it up - more than 13,000 km :) Tim recently visited us here in the middle
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 7, 2013
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                          Be careful what you offer - I got an invite to SFO from the guys there and I took it up - more than 13,000 km :)

                          Tim recently visited us here in the middle east - a similar distance for him too.

                          As for a fleet of only 2 - we were the same here three years ago, and we now have 7 in Dubai, 6 in Muscat, and one in Kuwait - the fleets have a tendency to grow :)

                          Regards from Dubai

                          Robert

                          Sent from iPhone

                          On 8 Jan 2013, at 06:34, "sail.plane" <sail.plane@...> wrote:

                          Buenos Aires, Argentina. We sail in the Rio de la Plata. Weta class here is... 2 boats!

                          --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Fleming" wrote:
                          >
                          > S34 W58? Mar del Plata, Argentina?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Aloha,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Bruce Fleming
                          >
                          > Akahele!, #276
                          >
                          > San Diego, California
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com]
                          > On Behalf Of sail.plane
                          > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 3:29 PM
                          > To: Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Weta-Trimarans] Re: Failed dyneema strop securing forestay
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > OK, new strop then, it seems
                          > I am definitely going to owe a lot of beers to a lot of people around here!
                          > Tim and Richard, your beers are waiting in the fridge for whenever you go
                          > close to S34 W58
                          > Thank you people
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • sail.plane
                          Yes you are right, like they say in airports jokes are taken seriously . I hope we grow the fleet here, so we can have our first regatta and then I confirm
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 8, 2013
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                            Yes you are right, like they say in airports "jokes are taken seriously".
                            I hope we grow the fleet here, so we can have our first regatta and then I confirm what I know, that I suck upwind!
                            but that´s another subject I may have to promise some beers for...

                            by the way you are a great contributor here, Robert, read a lot of your posts.

                            Cheers

                            --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, Robert Spencer wrote:
                            >
                            > Be careful what you offer - I got an invite to SFO from the guys there and I took it up - more than 13,000 km :)
                            >
                            > Tim recently visited us here in the middle east - a similar distance for him too.
                            >
                            > As for a fleet of only 2 - we were the same here three years ago, and we now have 7 in Dubai, 6 in Muscat, and one in Kuwait - the fleets have a tendency to grow :)
                            >
                            > Regards from Dubai
                            >
                            > Robert
                            >
                          • Tim Corcoran
                            Somebody asked me last month why I haven t been to South America yet...hmmm. Yep, I stink going upwind too. Here s hoping your fleet grows! Tim
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jan 8, 2013
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                              Somebody asked me last month why I haven't been to South America yet...hmmm. Yep, I stink going upwind too. Here's hoping your fleet grows!

                              Tim

                              --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, "sail.plane" wrote:
                              >
                              > Yes you are right, like they say in airports "jokes are taken seriously".
                              > I hope we grow the fleet here, so we can have our first regatta and then I confirm what I know, that I suck upwind!
                              > but that´s another subject I may have to promise some beers for...
                              >
                              > by the way you are a great contributor here, Robert, read a lot of your posts.
                              >
                              > Cheers
                              >
                              > --- In Weta-Trimarans@yahoogroups.com, Robert Spencer wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Be careful what you offer - I got an invite to SFO from the guys there and I took it up - more than 13,000 km :)
                              > >
                              > > Tim recently visited us here in the middle east - a similar distance for him too.
                              > >
                              > > As for a fleet of only 2 - we were the same here three years ago, and we now have 7 in Dubai, 6 in Muscat, and one in Kuwait - the fleets have a tendency to grow :)
                              > >
                              > > Regards from Dubai
                              > >
                              > > Robert
                              > >
                              >
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